WHY DO THE NEW MUL CARDS HAVE THE BV2-BASED POINTS ON THEM?

[iamfanboy]

So, having heard that the new Alpha Strike Companion was released, I immediately rushed to buy and read it. (Been busy with RPGs, getting minis ready for a superhero and a Mass Effect game, trying to open up a business, and ineffective antidepressant medications, but that's another topic).

I'm eagerly perusing the rules when I get to the REAR X/X/X and think, "Boy, isn't this what someone suggested for 'Mechs like the Rifleman and other guys that have lots of rear weapons?" While I wasn't surprised to not spot it on the MUL entry for the RFL, I was surprised to see the new card designs. I was looking it over from a design POV, wondering if the detail was too small for a 2.5x3.5 printing, when my eye caught something...

The old point value was still in the corner.

At first, I thought it might have been an error, but after checking all the IBT links in my old post above, as well as other items, I'm forced to admit that the images were uploaded with the Battle Value 2.0-based numbers.

Now, I know exactly how this happened - one person was working on the card redesigns and either got them done before the new Alpha Strike system was finalized or was told not to worry about it, but the expression on my face like I just found piss in my PPC comes from a simple question: why not just wait to change the cards so they match the AS Companion rules/errata? In fact, none of the new rules are reflected in the new cards - AFs still have the old Thresholds, no REAR values (curse the lack of fine Battlemech bootay!), nothing.

Admittedly I've been out of touch, but the new cards can't have been up THAT long - nine hells, less than two months ago I was looking up C3i units and they still had the older-style cards.

Other than that, my only gripes about the cards are minor - some wasted space issues (why so much white space when you're trying to cram information in there?), the bubbles might be a little small for printing as I prefer ( at playing/MtG card sized), and while the images were definitely too large before (and the new addition of a crit tracker is an amazing idea, you're a genius!) now the image is a bit small; perhaps moving the PV to the top left corner, in front of the name, so the whole top right corner can be used for the image?

Gods. I feel like such a... a... ****** fanboy complaining about this, when everything I've read in the AS Companion is amazing and I can't wait to use it - ALL OF IT, ALL OF IT! - but I really do think it's a major issue. These are the stats for the game. Keeping the old cards up and telling us that you were going to update the cards with the new rules would have been fine, but this just feels... half-assed.

I just really really really wanted to get started downloading the new cards and tailoring them to my needs, and now I'm cardblocked. I feel like Tinny Tim.

[Papabees]

They are actually in the process of updating the point values right now but want to have them all completed to load in one fell swoop. At least that is my understanding of the situation. Anyone with more knowledge than I feel free to chime in.

[Von Ether]

They are working on the update as we speak. The MUL is an all volunteer effort, so the work happens around RL.

[iamfanboy]

...an all-volunteer effort, you say? And me, with all this free time on my hands?

[nckestrel]

The book has even been printed yet.  The rules weren't finalized till the very day the PDF was released.  Chris Marti and I are working on it redoing the thousands of stat conversions.  A team from the MUL is working in assigning unit roles.
I'm about halfway through redoing most of the old units stat conversions.  Unfortunately I've been sick this week so progress halted for a while on my end.
Unit role assignments are a little further back,  but I'd still say more than one-third done?

[Von Ether]

 [cheers]

The book has even been printed yet.  The rules weren't finalized till the very day the PDF was released.  Chris Marti and I are working on it redoing the thousands of stat conversions.  A team from the MUL is working in assigning unit roles.
I'm about halfway through redoing most of the old units stat conversions.  Unfortunately I've been sick this week so progress halted for a while on my end.
Unit role assignments are a little further back,  but I'd still say more than one-third done?

Just letting you know that it's all greatly appreciated. Some day, man, some day, the beer's on me.
 [cheers]

[Adrian Gideon]

We also accept Dr. Pepper and Coke Zero.

[Pat Payne]

We also accept Dr. Pepper and Coke Zero.

All I've got right now is iced green tea... will that work? :)

[NeonKnight]

We also accept Dr. Pepper and Coke Zero.

Trust me, if ANY of you folks live local to me I Would do exactly that.

This coming from a guy who lives in the same City as the MECHWARRIOR ONLINE offices, and I popped in down there with a case of Pepsi!

[iamfanboy]

The book has even been printed yet.  The rules weren't finalized till the very day the PDF was released.  Chris Marti and I are working on it redoing the thousands of stat conversions.  A team from the MUL is working in assigning unit roles.
I'm about halfway through redoing most of the old units stat conversions.  Unfortunately I've been sick this week so progress halted for a while on my end.
Unit role assignments are a little further back,  but I'd still say more than one-third done?

Sign me up for that offering of the Pepper'd Doctor.

I understand perfectly, and while I'm nitpicking, I hope it's clear that I'm seriously enjoying the vast majority of everything done. I'm just saying... why not wait 'til everything was finalized before making a change to the MUL that you'll just have to change later?

Also, the new cards are nice (very nice, indeed!), but just short of perfect. Here's something I slapped together. The main differences are the reduction in empty white space which allows not only the expansion of three subsections (armor/structure, the new crit table, and the image), the moving of the PV section to the top left (so that the image can be bigger), and the addition of a Pilot/Unit subsection, which also has a spot for the pilot's abilities (if any). The PV section is smaller because you don't really NEED to have "PV:x" in there, just "x"; it's self-explanatory what that value is.

I used to have the font you guys used, but I apparently don't any more.

Hrum. In looking at it again, I'd probably expand the whole Pilot subsection until it's just short of the PV subsection, to give as much room for handwriting as possible. I know my eyesight is fading somewhat and I hate having to write tiny. That still gives a fair whack of room for the unit name, too, and reduces empty white space further...

[nckestrel]

The card is part of the website design (ie. thanks Skyhigh!)  The stats are part of the data creation/entry.  Two different hands. Skyhigh was available to do the new cards, saying no thanks and then not having him available in a couple months didn't seem wise.  No need to look a gift horse in the mouth or serving like that.
Also, the new card format isn't explicitly tied to the Alpha Strike Companion.  I don't think there is any new card in there.  The new point values, new special abilities and new rules are, and those are being done together.

[worktroll]

WHY ALL CAPS?

Seriously? I'd post a Heath Ledger picture here, escept that would probably not contribute additionally.

W.

[iamfanboy]

WHY ALL CAPS?

Seriously? I'd post a Heath Ledger picture here, escept that would probably not contribute additionally.

W.

I was... slightly more upset than I should have been when I wrote the title, and by the time I wound down to the Tinny Tim pic I'd forgotten the cAPSLOCK.

[worktroll]

As the locals around here would say, "no worries, mate!" O0

[Fletch]

"...she'll be right!"

[Feenix74]

Goodonya mate . . .

[Alexander Knight]

Warships are almost completed

[Fabe]

The book has even been printed yet.  The rules weren't finalized till the very day the PDF was released.  Chris Marti and I are working on it redoing the thousands of stat conversions.  A team from the MUL is working in assigning unit roles.
I'm about halfway through redoing most of the old units stat conversions.  Unfortunately I've been sick this week so progress halted for a while on my end.
Unit role assignments are a little further back,  but I'd still say more than one-third done?

Nice to hear you're making good progress on all the conversions ,you can add me to the list of those appreciate all the hard work you're doing. With luck you'll be done by the time the hardcopy hits the shelves and you can relax for awhile . I do have  a question,what do you mean by "unit role assignments"?

[nckestrel]

Unit roles: Brawler, Skirmisher, Juggernaut, Sniper, Missile Boat, Striker, Recon, Ambusher.
Plus aerospace fighter roles.
Originally in First Strike and the Intro Box set's painting and tactics guide.  They have been used as part of the Alpha Strike Companion's force building section.  (And hopefully will get expanded further.)

[worktroll]

I still want to see unit roles Mook, Sponge, and Bondo ...

[iamfanboy]

Warships are almost completed

So I suppose my suggestion on a... uh... revised version of the new card won't be implemented, then? *snaps fingers* Darnit. May have to do it myself, then, for my own units - have to do it somewhat anyway, just to put pictures of the Unseen into the blank slate. What font do you guys use again?

And Fabe, briefly speaking those roles are used for creating specific Formations that get specific benefits; for example, a "Fire Lance" would have to have several Sniper-type units in order to BE a Fire Lance, and as long as the Fire Lance still has (at least) 3 units you can assign Special Pilot Abilities to different unit at the start of a urn - and those SPAs can change both units and types. Each Formation also has different subtypes, too; all in all there are 24 for ground units so it's got a decent variety.

Personally, I think the only Formation missing was Light Fire Lance; probably something about augmenting its long-range damage or maybe being able to spot for another lance...

[Papabees]

So I suppose my suggestion on a... uh... revised version of the new card won't be implemented, then? *snaps fingers* Darnit. May have to do it myself, then, for my own units - have to do it somewhat anyway, just to put pictures of the Unseen into the blank slate. What font do you guys use again?

And Fabe, briefly speaking those roles are used for creating specific Formations that get specific benefits; for example, a "Fire Lance" would have to have several Sniper-type units in order to BE a Fire Lance, and as long as the Fire Lance still has (at least) 3 units you can assign Special Pilot Abilities to different unit at the start of a urn - and those SPAs can change both units and types. Each Formation also has different subtypes, too; all in all there are 24 for ground units so it's got a decent variety.

Personally, I think the only Formation missing was Light Fire Lance; probably something about augmenting its long-range damage or maybe being able to spot for another lance...

Have you seen the new unit card generator?

[iamfanboy]

Have you seen the new unit card generator?

I cannot say I am acquainted with that particular device, no.

[Sereglach]

I cannot say I am acquainted with that particular device, no.

http://masterunitlist.info/Tools/CardGenerator

It is a glorious godsend for making Alpha Strike Cards.  It ended up being spawned because of this thread, here:  http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,40468.0.html

[Von Ether]

http://masterunitlist.info/Tools/CardGenerator

It is a glorious godsend for making Alpha Strike Cards.  It ended up being spawned because of this thread, here:  http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,40468.0.html

Yep. I'm planning on keeping confusion for any proxies to a minimum with this little baby. i.e.

Props to Nachtwolfe for that Hellion paint job.

[iamfanboy]

That... wasn't really what I was talking about; though I do like it.

The cards are just a touch inefficiently laid out, that's all, and some information that's necessary under the newer rules (ability, unit, etc) aren't included.

I mean, look.



By bumping the PV section to the top right, you get more room for the image (and quite honestly, when I'm teaching new players they LOOK for that). Having a small box for TP/SZ/MV/ROLE means that you get room for a large box with the unit affiliation (kind of important with the Formation rules), Skill, and Ability - oh, and pilot names and/or ranks, if you're the sort of player who's into that. (I am!)

After reading the WHOLE rulebook, putting Final PV (accounting for Skill and any purchased abilities) and Pilot Status (Healthy/WIA/KIA) would be perfect for this hypothetical box, too.

It has a little room to expand upward until it's just short of the PV box.

(I'd redo it right now to show what I'm thinking of, but I don't know how to work GIMP and I don't want to restart windows for Photoshop right now - watching a movie.)

See what I mean now?

[Sereglach]

That... wasn't really what I was talking about; though I do like it.

The cards are just a touch inefficiently laid out, that's all, and some information that's necessary under the newer rules (ability, unit, etc) aren't included.

I mean, look.



By bumping the PV section to the top right, you get more room for the image (and quite honestly, when I'm teaching new players they LOOK for that). Having a small box for TP/SZ/MV/ROLE means that you get room for a large box with the unit affiliation (kind of important with the Formation rules), Skill, and Ability - oh, and pilot names and/or ranks, if you're the sort of player who's into that. (I am!)

After reading the WHOLE rulebook, putting Final PV (accounting for Skill and any purchased abilities) and Pilot Status (Healthy/WIA/KIA) would be perfect for this hypothetical box, too.

It has a little room to expand upward until it's just short of the PV box.

(I'd redo it right now to show what I'm thinking of, but I don't know how to work GIMP and I don't want to restart windows for Photoshop right now - watching a movie.)

See what I mean now?

 . . . don't you mean bumping the PV to the top left?

I see what you're talking about with your card though, and yes, you've made some efficiency improvements.  However, one thing to note (in comparison to the new card) is that you don't have a spot for the TMM.  That can also be extremely convenient to have on hand, especially when teaching newer players.  Not to mention, unit designation might change battle to battle with a mech, given on how you may need to organize your lances for an operation.  Of course, that could possibly be bypassed via laminating the card and writing lance/unit designations at the beginning of the fight.

Granted, the base skill number does not need as big of an area as it currently has, and adding the other pilot goodies is nice.  Personally, I'm more inclined to have a pilot card (as that pilot might not always be in the same mech), or just add the information on special pilot skills to the unit's abilities at the bottom.  I also cannot tell if you've made the mech ability section smaller when comparing the two card images (yours and Ether's), because of formatting, spacing, and image sizes.  If you have, that could become an issue for some units that have really big lists (not counting the obscenities of HUGE card potentials from warships, but counting mechs, tanks, and whatnot).  If not, then no big deal there.

[iamfanboy]

. . . don't you mean bumping the PV to the top left?

I see what you're talking about with your card though, and yes, you've made some efficiency improvements.  However, one thing to note (in comparison to the new card) is that you don't have a spot for the TMM.  That can also be extremely convenient to have on hand, especially when teaching newer players.  Not to mention, unit designation might change battle to battle with a mech, given on how you may need to organize your lances for an operation.  Of course, that could possibly be bypassed via laminating the card and writing lance/unit designations at the beginning of the fight.

Granted, the base skill number does not need as big of an area as it currently has, and adding the other pilot goodies is nice.  Personally, I'm more inclined to have a pilot card (as that pilot might not always be in the same mech), or just add the information on special pilot skills to the unit's abilities at the bottom.  I also cannot tell if you've made the mech ability section smaller when comparing the two card images (yours and Ether's), because of formatting, spacing, and image sizes.  If you have, that could become an issue for some units that have really big lists (not counting the obscenities of HUGE card potentials from warships, but counting mechs, tanks, and whatnot).  If not, then no big deal there.

Well, it's an AF card originally (the Eisensturm, first one I checked to see if the Threshold value had been changed) so the format is a touch different than the groundpounder unit cards - the Special section is smaller, and the crit section is bigger. I just grabbed an image close to hand when I got the idea without really considering the slightly variant format.

And yes, I meant top left.

I usually put the TMM in the A/S bubble on the card on the far RIGHT (like in the images below, because it IS a defensive modifier after all and no commonly-used unit has more than 10 A/S so the far right end is wasted space otherwise. I hadn't even noticed that the top bubble on the new card had a TMM space!

Tomorrow I'll work up a BM mockup of what I'm talking about. I mean, I love so much about the new card design (good gods, a crit tracker? I never would have thought of that!) but I want 'em to be perfect.

[iamfanboy]

Here. While it certainly isn't my best photosohp job ('m a touch loopy on muscle relaxants right now), it serves to explain my purpose.



Hrum. Pehraps renaming Unit "command" or "formation" instead would be helpful  to avoid convsusion.

I am going back to sleep now. Have a pleasant afternoon.

[iamfanboy]

Here. While it certainly isn't my best photosohp job ('m a touch loopy on muscle relaxants right now), it serves to explain my purpose.



Hrum. Pehraps renaming Unit "command" or "formation" instead would be helpful  to avoid convsusion.

I am going back to sleep now. Have a pleasant afternoon.

Wow. I vaguely remember making that image, but I don't remember posting it. Still, you'd think in three days that someone else would have commented on it... I mean, it's not THAT bad of a photoshop for a rough draft of what I was talking about.

If someone could point me in the direction of the font that the actual cards use, I'll make a cleaned-up 'final' version.