The Rasalhague Dominion: Friend of a Friend (but not your Friend)

[SteveRestless]

I designed the Karhu and like it.

I don't like the Kodiak because it draws off vital TRO spots needed for Omni renewal. See TRO3145 as an example.

Personally, I would have been happier if the bears got a Executioner II or a Devil Bear, or some other new assault Omni, and that omni's entry could have mentioned it being paired with the still-produced-original Kodiak on occasion. Bam. TRO Spot freed, AND we get the superior Kodiak. >_>

[Zeruel]

Exe II would have made sense what with all the other original Omni upgrades going around...

[marauder648]

Agreed, a Grand Executioner or Executioner II would make a lot more sense, the Kodiak is an old machine and whilst I would assume that there's a production line for the Kodiak and Kodiak II in Dominion space and assumedly one for the Executioner as well then why not phase out the older Executioner and start to replace it with a new model one that builds on the experience from fighting (and living) in the IS. 

Perhaps have it as a standard mech instead of an Omni like the Hel...err..Hellbringer II.  The latter configs of the Executioner are fine even if it still has its wonky armour layout whilst the Prime should be quietly consigned to the scrapheap of history.  The Scientist who designed that seemingly intended for the thing to walk across the surface of a star without any heat issues such was its oversinking.

I'd assume that the Kodiak would never go out of production, its the Clan's totem mech after all (although they could make a nice new 100 tonne omni and call it a Ghost Bear....)

[ActionButler]

Exe II would have made sense what with all the other original Omni upgrades going around...

Even though I am not a huge fan of the other neo-Omni designs, I would really like to see an Exe update. 

Dropping the Kodiak would be unfortunate.  For one thing, I can see the mech being deployed to a lot of second-line and garrison units.  I also really like the awkwardly running "I need a hug!" pose of the mini. 

[JAMES_PRYDE]

My Ghost Bear "Secret" Clone, loves his Kodiak and Karhu...Like an older and younger brother...the comment about the Kodiak wanting a hug is so true ;D

[Foxx Ital]

I'm of the opinion that a ExeII would break the game and no one would ever play with the bears anymore. The combine would build a space wall, The Falcons would respond to every challenge by dropping any remaining warships,when they run out they will resort to dropping dropships, the irony of this will wear off after the first couple of crash's into ghostbear clusters.

But yes a Executioner II would be the sickness  O0 I mean..we're ghostbears, why make a new mech when we can just slap a new coat of paint on it and call it the II? or III...or IV...

[Kojak]

IMHO, if you're going to do a follow-up to the Executioner, better to go the Mk IV route and give it ferro-lam.

[marauder648]

Only thing i'd do is remove the fixed JJ's, sure its a bit less flavourful but it worked with the Thor II and gives you more options with the big machine without having 8 tonnes nommed by JJ's when they might not be needed.

[marauder648]

I have done a simple update of the Gladiator prime but i'm not sure how to put those awesome scrolling tech sheets in and I designed it on REMLAB.

[Zeruel]

i don't think remlab has the ability to automaically do up a tech read out yet

[marauder648]

Aye and its not got anything like Ferro Lammy in it.  Its sadly the only one I can use whilst at work.

[Jellico]

I have been designing Executioner IIs since I first saw the "mk1 omnis" many years ago.

First I can't post anything because then they can't be used in TROs.

Next, FL doesn't work on Executioners. FL is roughly equivalent to FF unless you use 90% armour or more. At the same time it has a much higher crit cost. The Executioner is no where near max armour and increasing it will cut into the already limited pod space while the excessive crits prevent using endo steel.

The most effective Executioners I have built cut the HS back to 15 internal, installs ES, pods the JJs, and increase armour to 28x.

In addition to that I have played with endo composite, XL gyros, small cockpits, and CLPS. XXL, IJJs, and composite structure aren't worth the effort. Too hot, too big, and too soft respectively.

[Diablo48]

Oh god, now you have me thinking about making a stealthy Executioner.  The Clans can make both Chameleon and Null Sig so you could definitely throw both of them onto an Executioner II if you wanted to be really evil.  You could not fit Endo or Ferro with all the stealth crits and maxing the engine DHS is critical with the stealth heat burden, but you can certainly push the armor up to max and pod the jets to make people cry when you bring that monster to the board.

[Jellico]

That's the attraction of Chameleon. Some stealth. Not crushingly hot. And you keep you light weight FF. Though in testing I feel it forces the loss of too much fire power. I need to play it more.

[Diablo48]

That's the attraction of Chameleon. Some stealth. Not crushingly hot. And you keep you light weight FF. Though in testing I feel it forces the loss of too much fire power. I need to play it more.

While that is an issue, you will have plenty of DHS in the engine so you have room for a heavy energy weapon like an ERPPC or ERLL, and Gauss Rifles are always a good way to add firepower when you cannot afford more DHS so you should be fine.  Yes the firepower will not be as good as it could be without the stealth, but I was able to get two rifles and an ERLL with Null Sig and Chameleon which is plenty as far as I am concerned.  After all, that is two headcappers and 40 points of total long range damage on a unit that inflicts an additional +4 mod on the enemy's return fire making their shots basically hopeless.

[Jellico]

I assume that you dropped the JJs?

If you are running NS and CLPS you may as well go Stealth Armour. That 16 points of heat stings. Wulfen provides a precedent.

[Diablo48]

I assume that you dropped the JJs?

Yeah, I wanted to keep them but I thought the firepower was more important given how far from the enemy it wants to be.

If you are running NS and CLPS you may as well go Stealth Armour. That 16 points of heat stings. Wulfen provides a precedent.

That costs you half your bonus though, and part of my goal with this was to make it really sneaky both for moving around undetected and for the glory of a combined +8 to hit at long range before factoring in movement and terrain.

[SteveRestless]

Personally I like CLPS better than Stealth Armor. Its downsides are less brutal. After re-reading the original fluff for the Phantom that suggested it had a CLPS type system and ginning up an alt version of the omni that has it, I like the way it works along side the stealth armored wulfen. I could see it fitting well on the Executioner too.

[Zeruel]

speaking of podding the JJs (slightly off-topic here), anyone find it kinda weird that JJs are poddable at all?
they just kinda seem like the type of thing that would need to be integrated into the frame to work properly

[The Eagle]

Yeah, that thought had occurred to me before.  But I don't write the rules.

[ActionButler]

speaking of podding the JJs (slightly off-topic here), anyone find it kinda weird that JJs are poddable at all?
they just kinda seem like the type of thing that would need to be integrated into the frame to work properly

It does seem off.  Plug-and-Play weapons I can believe since the mech is (probably) going to be armed anyway.  You build the sockets for energy weapons or the ammo belts for ballistics since the mech is definitely going to have guns of some kind.

Jump jets seem like something that would need a lot of dedicated internal infrastructure in addition to the exhaust ports.

[marauder648]

In reality I guess that any 'leg mounted' JJ's would be more likely placed on a mechs shoulders and back like we see with the art of the more recent Phoenix Hawk IIC's and the like. And that podding of JJ's would probably be a rather rarely done thing because its probably a overly complicated job to fit them, not one that could be done quickly.

[WeaponX]

speaking of podding the JJs (slightly off-topic here), anyone find it kinda weird that JJs are poddable at all?
they just kinda seem like the type of thing that would need to be integrated into the frame to work properly

If an Omnimech can handle the recoil of a pod mounted Gauss Rifle or Ultra AC/20, they could probably handle the stresses of a pod mounted jump jet.  However I think that some sort of advantage should be given to fixed jump jets versus podded jump jets, in that fixed jump jets give you -1 in skill rolls, while podded ones don't give you an advantage, or maybe even give you a +1 disadvantage if the podded jump jet weighs more than 1 ton etc.

[Jellico]

TW describes JJs as functionally similar to aerospace thrusters.
From P179

which superheats a lot more hydrogen like the combat drives of DropShips. Or BattleMech jump jets for that matter.

Basically JJs are piped into the fusion reactor.

[Diablo48]

speaking of podding the JJs (slightly off-topic here), anyone find it kinda weird that JJs are poddable at all?
they just kinda seem like the type of thing that would need to be integrated into the frame to work properly

Yeah, I am very much with you on this, and I always got the feeling that some very early drafts of the omni rules did lock jets to the base chassis based on the designs in TRO 3050.  It also would have given us another nice lever to play with for differentiating omnis because as is the decision is basically "what ground speed do you want" and "do I want MASC" with a few more minor additions like specialty armors added in later unless you do something stupid (hello Hellbringer #P).

TW describes JJs as functionally similar to aerospace thrusters.
From P179
Basically JJs are piped into the fusion reactor.

That makes sense from a design perspective, but it really makes me wonder how the frack they manage to pod mount those jets if it requires that kind of access to the reactor.

[Foxx Ital]

"BOB!"
"yeah?"
"when your done connecting the rest of the weapons, can you attach the Jump jets"
"But its pod mounted!"

 i'm assuming it would be no more difficult than attaching any other pods, but would lead to some great discussions and rants from techs  ;D
 
 i'm basically saying its no more far fetched than anything else that happens, so like Santa i just believe in the magic  O0

[Zeruel]

it kind of presupposes that there are ducts leading from the engine to a port on the outside of the 'Mech, already built-in, in the event they pod mount jump jets

really thinking about it now, I really think there needs to be some kind of downside to pod mounted JJs, otherwise, what advantage is there to fixed JJs on an Omni? why does any OmniMech have fixed JJs?

[Tyler Jorgensson]

I never really cared for the Executioner. Faced too many of them in Mw4: Mercenaries and hated every minute of their quad PPC and Gauss spam. When I discovered their was more than MW4 for mechs I discovered the mech a bit underwhelming. Yeah sure 80kph isn't bad and neither is Vlads variant. I see it's usefulness but to me I'm just not a fan.

Now a Mark II would hopefully be redesigned like the Hel, remove the Jump Jets move crits around and free up pod space: lots of it.

Just my two cents finally

[Sharpnel]

it kind of presupposes that there are ducts leading from the engine to a port on the outside of the 'Mech, already built-in, in the event they pod mount jump jets

really thinking about it now, I really think there needs to be some kind of downside to pod mounted JJs, otherwise, what advantage is there to fixed JJs on an Omni? why does any OmniMech have fixed JJs?

Because ...  DFA

[Jellico]

I never really cared for the Executioner. Faced too many of them in Mw4: Mercenaries and hated every minute of their quad PPC and Gauss spam. When I discovered their was more than MW4 for mechs I discovered the mech a bit underwhelming. Yeah sure 80kph isn't bad and neither is Vlads variant. I see it's usefulness but to me I'm just not a fan.

Now a Mark II would hopefully be redesigned like the Hel, remove the Jump Jets move crits around and free up pod space: lots of it.

Just my two cents finally

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Blood_Asp

Sounds like you want a Blood Asp or a Warhawk?

In the firepower/mobility/protection triangle Executioners are all about protection and mobility. The protection and mobility allow you to place the reduced firepower more specifically.
A Blood Asp or a Warhawk offer a more balanced package with similar protection but reduced mobility and increased firepower.

I think what most people tend to find with the Executioner is that it is more fun to play. The more traditional 'Mechs tend to favour grinding tactics. The Executioner can misposition most assaults then take them apart. It is a higher risk, more exciting style of play. Believe me, when you lose those jump jets you miss the ability to just get out of trouble.

It actually creates an interesting dynamic. In most toumans the fire support is in the assault 'Mech. Heavies run point and mediums flank. With CGB anything can be on point (Executioner, Thor or Storm Crow), heavies provide fire support (Mad Dog), and heavies and mediums flank (Executioner or Thor).