Where to get quality miniatures?

[Azakael]

As another combined-arms fan, I'll second looking into the optional rules in TacOps when time and funds permit. Even just the changes to motive hits make a big difference in keeping your vehicles (especially hovercraft) moving. Without those rules, vees do take a hit in survivability. My general rule for force building is that everything is dangerous in some way. You've got to know what you're walking into, and what you want out of your units, but you can really turn some heads - and win games - by making use of those "lesser" units.

I would like to third that for critical and motive hits. My buddy and I used the optional rule to remove the extra critical hits and motive damage results on the chart, and it made a difference. Especially when we considered, after the fight, that several vees may have been "Crew Stunned" locked from crits if we hadn't.

[Kartr_Kana]

I really don't quite understand this.  Admittedly, it probably takes a lot to stop a 100 ton, fusion powered tank but I can easily see acres and acres of dense, old growth forest (the sort of thing with trees 3-4 foot or more in diameter growing too closely for vehicles to pass through) doing so.  Sure, that tank can probably plow right over one or two trees like that, but dozens or hundreds of them?  I know WWII era tanks would take roads or at least trails through heavy forests, not just crash through them willy nilly and AFAIK modern armor is the same. 

Certainly the whole point of tracked vehicles is cross country capability but that does have its limitations.  Wheeled vehicles are faster on paved roads, tracked vehicles are better on rough, cratered but generally open terrain, hover vehicles are better on wide open, relativly smooth terrain.  I think the rules reflect this pretty well.
Not in numbers, I would agree.  Especially in the later Succession Wars standard vehicles probably outnumbered 'mechs 100 to 1 if not more.  On the other hand, I do think that tactically 'mechs tended to dominate the battlefield.  Its not unreasonable that a lance of heavy mechs could route a whole company of heavy tanks, especially in terrain that favors the 'mechs (which tends to be most).
 
See, that just shows that tastes differ.  While I tend to agree about the clix art in general, I can't think of a single mech in the TRO: Project Phoenix that I think looked better than the original design from TRO: 3025.  Maybe its just taste.  Maybe its just nostalgia.  Certainly does not mean I'm right and you're wrong.  Just means we are differnet.     ;)
So, you tend to prefer working in plastic then?  If so, fair enough.  You are certainly not alone in that.  Myself, I "cut my teeth" on old lead miniatures so I'm still most comfortable with pewter.  The only time I prefer plastic is for purely cost reasons (that is when it does offer a cost advantage) especially for games that require lots and lots of miniatures.  Given the choice, and if cost is not an issue, I pick metal every time.   ^-^

In the end, the game is centered around BattleMechs, and the game designers made a deliberate choice to make BattleMechs better than standard vehicles to emphasise this.  As much as I personally prefer combined arms forces to pure 'mech forces, I'm generally happy with the balance between 'mechs, vehicles and infantry in the game.

The very first tank demonstrated it's power by pushing down an ancient oak tree (pretty sure it was oak, I know it was a very tough hardwood tree). You also don't usually see trees growing that closely together, especially not the very hardy ones. The root and branch systems require trees to have a fair amount of spacing. When they don't the bigger ones overwhelm the small ones which then die from lack of nourishment. At Battlemech height you'd be fighting your way through dense branches unable to see your feet. A tank would go right under the branches and only have to slow down to maneuver around through the gaps. Light woods are less dense so very few gaps to force significant slowing.

Yet we have as many instances of tanks holding off or routing 'Mechs. Especially now as tanks are finally getting tech on the same level as 'Mechs. Heavy FF, XL engines, Gauss rifles, Ultra ACs, MMLs, etc., are all being utilized on tanks and stories of tanks beating 'Mechs is growing more common as these modern tanks see action.

When I think about the two types of woods in this game... Light and heavy, I have to disagree with the OP's opinion of a tank just going through it with no problem.

 His thought was that the branches would hinder the sight of the battlemech and not the tank. As fat as I know, branches at the base of a tree are much more dense than at the top.

 Also, tracked vehicles tend to throw tracks and get things caught in them pretty easy. I should know too, I was a combat engineer and rode in tanks when I was in the army.

 

Trees generally don't have branches that low to the ground, especially in denser forests. Not enough light filters down through the upper branches for lower branches to gather enough nutrition. This has held true from the evergreen forests of my native Oregon, to the jungles of Okinawa. Tanks would have to maneuver around trunks, but even that shouldn't significantly slow them in a low density forest, especially with few to no branches at their level.

Two deployments and as many work ups as an 0351 (essentially an SRM infantryman), all with AAVs, as well a week working with the failed EFV and I never saw a thrown track. Yes tanks can throw tracks or occasionally get extremely tough object lodged in them, but it's not as frequent a you're trying to make it sound.

[Col.Hengist]

We'll just have to disagree on this. The forests here in western Washington are dense with branches well below the drivers view let alone anything a gunner can see.

 I'm familiar with wood growth also.

[Bosefius]

Ladies and Gentlemen, as fascinating as this is please create a thread for it in General Discussion. Please take this conversation back to miniatures.

[SteelRaven]

Karta_Kana: You mentioned the Wolverine earlier, talking about the Wolverine II?

[StoneRhino]

I have to point out a few problems with the whole "argument" of the OP.

First, I have absolutely zero desire to buy a $25 mini. I wouldn't buy anything that hits that price. I think Assault mechs, hell most of the mechs nowadays are almost rocking the same price, but Assaults are rather high priced. $100 per lance is going to require that either I hit the jackpot or I have gone nuts. I would hate to consider spending $25 for several parts that I simply do not want and will not have a need for once I assemble the mech. Could I mail them back to IWM and get a refund?

I am not against the idea of having refit kits that one can purchase if they so choose. I think IWM could offer refit kits for many of the mechs, especially the omnis that could be online exclusives. I would probably buy another copy of a few omnis so that I could buy the refit kit for some of those crazy LRM or MRM variants. I would want each variant of Kitfox out there as well. Extra parts for configs or poses aren't a bad idea, but I am against being forced to buy what I don't want so that someone can have a different pose for their mech without having to put in the effort to special order the parts for it. I'm for lowering the prices of minis, not raising them.

There is a mention about old BT vehicles looking nothing like a realistic vehicle. Then he goes on to show pictures of 40k models and a mech, while also talking about interesting things and shapes being on the 40k models. There was also mention of wires or ammo IIRC.

One has to remember that we are talking about 2 different games. One is about infantry and another is about a walking tank. I haven't seen many tanks that have a bunch of exposed parts, or oddly shaped items attatched to them. The infantry based game's minis would be as strange as a tank with tons of little things hanging off of it if the minis were rather flat and lacked little details. An armor plate is going to be relatively flat, yet a pair of pants are going to have several folds and angles.

40k is a completely different scale and the type of unit the mini is requires human levels of details. A MBT is going to want flat armor plates at specific angle as to help improve protection instead of catching rounds and redirecting them into the armor. A pistol, at the scale of 40k is going to have a lot of details because of the scale and the subject, yet BT infantry are not going to show that much detail because of the scale. A mech with exposed ammo is really just asking for something to happen. There is a reason you don't see tanks dragging around a bunch of exposed ammo.

A closer comparison to 40k minis would be the old Battletroops minis. Even then the scale is different, but those minis had more details that a human would have versus an armored vehicle of any sort. As for the "interesting" items that the 40k minis have, a lot of it is gaudy add ons. Is it just me or did that space marine have ribbons on the side of his pistol? I don't play 40k, but I have seen many of the minis and a lot of them do have strange things that would not be considered realistic.

What it comes down to is that 40k is meant to show details of human sized humanoid with gaudy armor and decorations on just about anything for just about any reason. Some are into that over the top attempt at drama, I'm not one of them. Some of the older BT minis are trapped in the 80s and some of the Project Phoenix mechs got hit with the goofy stick. I don't have to love them just because they are BT minis, but then again what I like is different then what others like. If someone wants to avoid BT because of the older mechs, but they play 40k, I have an entire faction to point out to them as to why I will never get into 40k unless that faction dies. The orks in 40k are far more goofy looking then anything Battletech has to offer. If they were ShadowRun orks then I wouldn't have a problem since Shadowrun has cool looking Orcs while 40k makes me wonder when the unicorns and pixies are going to show up with their rapid fire love guns. It comes down to tastes and not everyone should be expected to be into everything in a game.

I have seen that GOOFY looking ork mech. Even if all of the "goofy" looking mechs were to have a lovefest they still would not produce a child that is within 100 miles of being as goofy as the ork mech. The idea that people pay for that thing leaves me dumbfounded since I'm sure how much it goes for could buy someone a BT starter box.

[Kartr_Kana]

Karta_Kana: You mentioned the Wolverine earlier, talking about the Wolverine II?

No, though I often use it as a Wolverine II since when my Father-in-law played he preferred Succession Wars or Star League. It's this one

I have to point out a few problems with the whole "argument" of the OP.

First, I have absolutely zero desire to buy a $25 mini. I wouldn't buy anything that hits that price. I think Assault mechs, hell most of the mechs nowadays are almost rocking the same price, but Assaults are rather high priced. $100 per lance is going to require that either I hit the jackpot or I have gone nuts. I would hate to consider spending $25 for several parts that I simply do not want and will not have a need for once I assemble the mech. Could I mail them back to IWM and get a refund?

I am not against the idea of having refit kits that one can purchase if they so choose. I think IWM could offer refit kits for many of the mechs, especially the omnis that could be online exclusives. I would probably buy another copy of a few omnis so that I could buy the refit kit for some of those crazy LRM or MRM variants. I would want each variant of Kitfox out there as well. Extra parts for configs or poses aren't a bad idea, but I am against being forced to buy what I don't want so that someone can have a different pose for their mech without having to put in the effort to special order the parts for it. I'm for lowering the prices of minis, not raising them.

Perhaps part if it is my exposure to Warhammer. To build a viable army at the common tournament point(BV) level can easily run you $700+. I have three squads, 2x APCs, a command unit and a couple of command characters, which is maybe a third of what I'd like to field and that's over $200 not including paints, rulebooks and army books. So when I think of spending $80-$100 on 4-5 'Mechs with all the parts to create all the variants I think it's a good deal. I can magnetize them and have the option for 24-30+ variants on 4-5 chassis.

Even more importantly you don't have to pin good plastics as the glue literally fuses them together. You also don't run into the problem I'm having with the Wolverine's head right now where the tiny little top piece won't stick to anything but my fingers and it's too small to pin. For me that's one of the biggest advantages of plastic and one the major reasons I'd be willing to spend $20 a model. Because plastic is 100% easier to use than pewter. Now I have to figure out what tools and material I need to actually pin my BattleTech models, then go buy them, spend the time to carefully drill out little holes (I'm guessing I can't just use the Dremel) put pins in, etc. With a Space Marine you paint the body, you paint the arm, you file any paint off the shoulder and arm facings then cement them together, hold 10s and done. I'd have one fully painted and assembled by now if they were in plastic, as it is I'm still trying to figure out how I'm supposed to go about pinning them.

There is a mention about old BT vehicles looking nothing like a realistic vehicle. Then he goes on to show pictures of 40k models and a mech, while also talking about interesting things and shapes being on the 40k models. There was also mention of wires or ammo IIRC.

One has to remember that we are talking about 2 different games. One is about infantry and another is about a walking tank. I haven't seen many tanks that have a bunch of exposed parts, or oddly shaped items attatched to them. The infantry based game's minis would be as strange as a tank with tons of little things hanging off of it if the minis were rather flat and lacked little details. An armor plate is going to be relatively flat, yet a pair of pants are going to have several folds and angles.

40k is a completely different scale and the type of unit the mini is requires human levels of details. A MBT is going to want flat armor plates at specific angle as to help improve protection instead of catching rounds and redirecting them into the armor. A pistol, at the scale of 40k is going to have a lot of details because of the scale and the subject, yet BT infantry are not going to show that much detail because of the scale. A mech with exposed ammo is really just asking for something to happen. There is a reason you don't see tanks dragging around a bunch of exposed ammo.

A closer comparison to 40k minis would be the old Battletroops minis. Even then the scale is different, but those minis had more details that a human would have versus an armored vehicle of any sort. As for the "interesting" items that the 40k minis have, a lot of it is gaudy add ons. Is it just me or did that space marine have ribbons on the side of his pistol? I don't play 40k, but I have seen many of the minis and a lot of them do have strange things that would not be considered realistic.

What it comes down to is that 40k is meant to show details of human sized humanoid with gaudy armor and decorations on just about anything for just about any reason. Some are into that over the top attempt at drama, I'm not one of them. Some of the older BT minis are trapped in the 80s and some of the Project Phoenix mechs got hit with the goofy stick. I don't have to love them just because they are BT minis, but then again what I like is different then what others like. If someone wants to avoid BT because of the older mechs, but they play 40k, I have an entire faction to point out to them as to why I will never get into 40k unless that faction dies. The orks in 40k are far more goofy looking then anything Battletech has to offer. If they were ShadowRun orks then I wouldn't have a problem since Shadowrun has cool looking Orcs while 40k makes me wonder when the unicorns and pixies are going to show up with their rapid fire love guns. It comes down to tastes and not everyone should be expected to be into everything in a game.

I have seen that GOOFY looking ork mech. Even if all of the "goofy" looking mechs were to have a lovefest they still would not produce a child that is within 100 miles of being as goofy as the ork mech. The idea that people pay for that thing leaves me dumbfounded since I'm sure how much it goes for could buy someone a BT starter box.

/sigh you completely missed my point, like a DropShip over an LZ. I don't want the "gaudy" over the top "gothic" style in BattleTech. I was putting the models side by side to show how you can put muzzle brakes, ejection ports, vents, etc., on small figures and still have them show up with easily readable detail and purpose.

I then went on to explain how if you have a simple silhouette you need interesting surface details and vice versa. It has nothing to do with transporting the WH40K style into BattleTech, but rather ensure that 'BattleMechs and tanks are visually interesting.

MBTs have lots of interesting surface detail that makes them great for modelers. Here look:

[Kartr_Kana]

[Kartr_Kana]

That kind of detail is doable, if not in pewter then definitely in plastic. Some of my Space Marines have rivets that are visually similar to whatever those things on the Merkava are.

So don't try and tell me tanks are just "flat surfaces" because its patently untrue.

[Col.Hengist]

There are lots of battletech tanks that look like that. First ones that come to mind rommel/patton, manticore, scorpion, bulldog, von luckner the list goes on. Really, look into some of the tanks in the game before you complain that nothing looks like that.

[SteelRaven]

No, though I often use it as a Wolverine II since when my Father-in-law played he preferred Succession Wars or Star League. It's this one

That is one of the Reseens I actually like much to the dismay to the fans of the original Blockhead
http://chriskotthoff.tumblr.com/image/83068072193
I just wish the minis proportions was a little beefer like the art but it's a very minor detail for a mini. I just like the fact it's looks like a mini-Battlemaster :)

[Neo-Tanuki]

As someone who has collected and painted both 40k miniatures (I have 4 armies around 1500 points each) and Btech for several years, I thought I'd chime in and say I tend to be in the same camp as Stone Rhino regarding price.

When I first got into 40k, I used to purchase at least one item per month of Games Workshop product, which usually meant a single figure or kit I could comfortably work on and complete during that period. Then prices started going up, but Games Workshop pointed out that part of the reason for this was the number of options and different items being added to the kits. While I agree the quality of Games Workshop kits remains very high, and the options are nice, as prices continued to rise I found myself needing to pay double or triple what I spent previously for kits. Also, after I completed my kits I had sprue after sprue of parts I really couldn't use for anything else. I'm not talking about things like Space Marine extra weapons or heads, but things like walker arms or legs that are cut so they ONLY fit on a particular kit and nothing else.

I still like Games Workshop games and Games Workshop miniatures, but one of the reasons I'm painting a lot more Battletech these days is because the price is far more affordable. If Battletech miniatures went the route of GW--doubling or tripling in price to add more "bling" and extras--I don't think I'd continue painting the miniatures. It's just not reasonable on my budget. Given the choice between a very decent model I can afford (and I think that the IWM offerings of the past few years have been quite satisfactory for me) and one that is super-elaborate but extremely expensive (like the beautiful but running into triple digits Imperial Knight from GW), I'd rather have the affordable option.  For my purposes, I think the array of optional bits that can be purchased through IWM to customize 'Mechs is quite reasonable as is.

To the OP: It seems you have very strong negative feelings toward the Battletech miniatures line, and don't seem  persuaded by those that have positive feelings toward it. My impression of most Battletech players (including myself) is that they are pretty relaxed in regard to proxying alternate miniatures, especially given the issues with the old Unseen. For example, I love the recent "primitive" Thunderbolt, and dislike the older Phoenix and even the "Classic Era" Tbolt sculpts, so I simply use the "primitive" resculpt in place of the older minis. People have been interested by the new Robotech mini line for the same reason.

I've posted a couple of primitive re-sculpts I've painted in the Miniatures forum using paint schemes from different time periods, and no one has ever said to me "ZOMG! That is SO the wrong historical period for that 'Mech! #fail." Quite the opposite-response has been very positive to my 'proxies.' I see other painters who occasionally get very positive feedback on their CAV minis here.

In your earlier posts, you mentioned that you like other lines like CAV, so why not simply use one or more designs that are closer to your vision of what the game should look like in place of  Btech sculpts you don't like?

[klarg1]

That kind of detail is doable, if not in pewter then definitely in plastic. Some of my Space Marines have rivets that are visually similar to whatever those things on the Merkava are.

Um... Sculpting preferences aside, pewter and, especially, resin, are capable of holding finer details than ABS or PVC based plastics. GW more or less defines the state of the art in fine scale plastics injection molding, and they still can't meet the level of the best metal and resin castings on the market.

As for cost, I do not want to get into a debate on business models, but the point of using plastics is that they have tremendously lower materials and production costs when compared to metal. The reason small companies like IWM can't easily switch over is that the up front cost for an injection molding machine is prohibitive, and the molds themselves cost anywhere from 10-100 times as much to make for a new sculpt. (They also last much longer than vulcanized rubber molds, further lowering costs over a large production run)

These factors make injection molded plastic uneconomical for small production runs, like most of the ones we see for Battletech. IWM doesn't release sales numbers, but, at a guess, I doubt the 1-year sales volume for a new Battlemech sculpt comes within a factor of 100 of the volume for a new Space Marine sprue.

As for Battletech specifically, keep in mind that the rivet you see on a GW tank would have to be roughly 5x smaller to translate into Battletech scale. (32mm vs 6mm scale)

[Kartr_Kana]

There are lots of battletech tanks that look like that. First ones that come to mind rommel/patton, manticore, scorpion, bulldog, von luckner the list goes on. Really, look into some of the tanks in the game before you complain that nothing looks like that.

I actually have a pair of Von Luckners and I like them, I'm also planning on getting some Pattons, Marsdens and Merkavas.

And if you'd actually read my comments instead of assuming that I'm hating on Btech again you'd have seen that my posts were in response to the claim that tanks can only be flat faces.

I actually really like the handful of tanks that look like tanks, and I like them a lot. So how's about you turn down the self righteousness a couple of degrees?

To the OP: It seems you have very strong negative feelings toward the Battletech miniatures line, and don't seem  persuaded by those that have positive feelings toward it. My impression of most Battletech players (including myself) is that they are pretty relaxed in regard to proxying alternate miniatures, especially given the issues with the old Unseen. For example, I love the recent "primitive" Thunderbolt, and dislike the older Phoenix and even the "Classic Era" Tbolt sculpts, so I simply use the "primitive" resculpt in place of the older minis. People have been interested by the new Robotech mini line for the same reason.

I've posted a couple of primitive re-sculpts I've painted in the Miniatures forum using paint schemes from different time periods, and no one has ever said to me "ZOMG! That is SO the wrong historical period for that 'Mech! #fail." Quite the opposite-response has been very positive to my 'proxies.' I see other painters who occasionally get very positive feedback on their CAV minis here.

In your earlier posts, you mentioned that you like other lines like CAV, so why not simply use one or more designs that are closer to your vision of what the game should look like in place of  Btech sculpts you don't like?

On the contrary I've had my eyes opened to the Phoenix and Primitives and am finding more 'Mechs that I like the look of. My only problem now is that pewter is much harder work with and some of the smaller pieces won't glue together properly. That's actually becoming very frustrating as I'd like to start priming and painting but I can't get the #### pieces together!

Um... Sculpting preferences aside, pewter and, especially, resin, are capable of holding finer details than ABS or PVC based plastics. GW more or less defines the state of the art in fine scale plastics injection molding, and they still can't meet the level of the best metal and resin castings on the market.


As for Battletech specifically, keep in mind that the rivet you see on a GW tank would have to be roughly 5x smaller to translate into Battletech scale. (32mm vs 6mm scale)

I'd like to see these high quality sculpts that exceed the capabilities of plastic. No offense but from what I've seen of the Btech pewter, Forge World resin, and GW plastic I have, the GW plastic wins hands down for crispness and detail.

The rivets on the Space Marines are "heroic" size and would fit pretty well on a tank, might need to be made a little smaller but not much. Keep in mind I want talking about Rhinos when I mentioned rivets.

[Col.Hengist]

How am ibeingself righteous?

[Kartr_Kana]

Really, look into some of the tanks in the game before you complain that nothing looks like that.

How am ibeingself righteous?

You assumed that I was bashing BattleTech, so you nobly leapt to it's defense, attacking the "heretic" without even reading/comprehending the post you were attacking.

[Col.Hengist]

Seriously,  mostly what you've done in  this thread is bash the minies. I was suggesting you look at the line of tanks that look real because you were saying none looked like you thought theso u ld.

[Heavyguard]

My only problem now is that pewter is much harder work with and some of the smaller pieces won't glue together properly. That's actually becoming very frustrating as I'd like to start priming and painting but I can't get the #### pieces together!

What small pieces are you having trouble with? Asking in the miniatures forum or looking in the tip & tricks section you can probably easily find help. What are you using for a glue? Are you scoring or roughing up the surfaces prior to gluing? etc. Feel free to ask on the board here and you will likely pick of numerous tricks. Plastic vs pewter is different yes, with plastics your glue is more so fusing or 'welding' the parts together vs pewter where its holding them together.

[cavingjan]

Discussing bolts seems odd. Let's use a 1 inch since that is easy to scale up or down. A 1 inch bolt scaled down to a mini size would be less than 0.1 mm (0.004 inches). That is not realistic. Even ten times that is only going to be a blip that is likely to be filed off when cleaning the mini during assembly. Heroic scale where things are intentionally exaggerated can make these over-sized items but that is not an artistic style that battletech (or CAV for that matter) chooses to use.

There are different glues and gluing skills for plastics and metals. There is also a learning curve for both materials. The first one you learn with will always be easier. One of the best skills needed for working with metal minis is patience. (and unfortunately one of the hardest to learn) The best thing to do is to dry fit your piece, add the glue, and then let it sit for 10 minutes. You will get a nice solid bond but one that can be broken without too much difficulty if you see the piece shifted on you (as long as you do so within a short period of time. Once it cured for 24 hours, you will need to use an agent to loosen it or physical leverage.) Personally I work on several minis at once so I can be working on a different one while one is sitting. Putty can be useful to hold something in place while it cures. Don't try to hold it with your fingers as you often shift slightly and weaken the bond. Sometimes just having something simple like a letter opener to hold a small piece in place makes things a lot easier.

[Deathrider6]

  I have many, many miniatures from both the Battletech and Warhammer 40K lines and I enjoy ALL of them. There are some sculpts I have issues with and some I really like. The breaker for me is COST. Games workshop puts out an excellent product but I would have to sell a kidney to set up enough of them to create an equivalent sized unit to a Mech regiment.  Now to be honest the larger scale of the 40K minis make them a joy to paint (detailed or not) and assemble while the IWM minis for Battletech can be difficult to do more than a table ready coat of paint and primer.

  I stopped buying GW stuff because of the cost. I can buy a lance of mechs for the cost of a squad of witch hunters (or whatever they are calling them this edition). I can field a Company of mechs for the cost of a 1500 point 40K army easily and probably some attachments. Now to be fair if I was regularly playing 40K I would probably buy the occasional mini to add variety to my chosen army and go from there but that is not the point. It really comes down to the aesthetics of the two game lines.


  Battletech has a look that has evolved from an 80's future where walking tanks rule the battlefield while 40K is a dark future where there is only war, to me at least it is like comparing apples and oranges. As usual your mileage may vary and the opinions in this post are mine alone.

To close the rule of cool applies and if you want to use units that you think look cool on the table go for it it's your table and enjoy. I will also second some advice given a post or two before this one. There is a huge body of advice . tips and tricks and of course the CSO site has even more on how to paint and assemble miniatures. I have used these resouces many times to aid me in my enjoyment of the hobby.

[klarg1]

I'd like to see these high quality sculpts that exceed the capabilities of plastic. No offense but from what I've seen of the Btech pewter, Forge World resin, and GW plastic I have, the GW plastic wins hands down for crispness and detail.

The rivets on the Space Marines are "heroic" size and would fit pretty well on a tank, might need to be made a little smaller but not much. Keep in mind I want talking about Rhinos when I mentioned rivets.

Forge World casts its parts in resin, for the very reasons I listed above. This is not casting technology, it has to do with the physical grain size and limits of the materials at hand.











For more, I suggest tracking down more of Tom Meier's Thunderbolt Mountain. (Link omitted due to Forum rules.) Tre's work at Red Box is also good, as are the sculpts at Dark Sword miniatures and others. CMoN also retails a variety of crazy-detailed resin sets.

(And before you cry foul, the dude in the middle of the group shot is spin-cast resin, not injection molded anything. The one you see is the one I own, and, yes, I have spoken with the sculptor about the material and its various trade-offs.)

[Kartr_Kana]

What small pieces are you having trouble with? Asking in the miniatures forum or looking in the tip & tricks section you can probably easily find help. What are you using for a glue? Are you scoring or roughing up the surfaces prior to gluing? etc. Feel free to ask on the board here and you will likely pick of numerous tricks. Plastic vs pewter is different yes, with plastics your glue is more so fusing or 'welding' the parts together vs pewter where its holding them together.

It's the antenna assemble for the re seen Wolverine. Just using basic superglue and I haven't roughed the surface. I'll have to check out the tips and tricks section. Need to put together a tool list as well since I don't have anything to pin with.

Discussing bolts seems odd. Let's use a 1 inch since that is easy to scale up or down. A 1 inch bolt scaled down to a mini size would be less than 0.1 mm (0.004 inches). That is not realistic. Even ten times that is only going to be a blip that is likely to be filed off when cleaning the mini during assembly. Heroic scale where things are intentionally exaggerated can make these over-sized items but that is not an artistic style that battletech (or CAV for that matter) chooses to use.

All you need is that blip to catch some paint when you're dry brushing.

There are different glues and gluing skills for plastics and metals. There is also a learning curve for both materials. The first one you learn with will always be easier. One of the best skills needed for working with metal minis is patience. (and unfortunately one of the hardest to learn) The best thing to do is to dry fit your piece, add the glue, and then let it sit for 10 minutes. You will get a nice solid bond but one that can be broken without too much difficulty if you see the piece shifted on you (as long as you do so within a short period of time. Once it cured for 24 hours, you will need to use an agent to loosen it or physical leverage.) Personally I work on several minis at once so I can be working on a different one while one is sitting. Putty can be useful to hold something in place while it cures. Don't try to hold it with your fingers as you often shift slightly and weaken the bond. Sometimes just having something simple like a letter opener to hold a small piece in place makes things a lot easier.

Thanks for the tips! I can do patience, if I know what I'm doing :P

[Kartr_Kana]

Forge World casts its parts in resin, for the very reasons I listed above. This is not casting technology, it has to do with the physical grain size and limits of the materials at hand.











For more, I suggest tracking down more of Tom Meier's Thunderbolt Mountain. (Link omitted due to Forum rules.) Tre's work at Red Box is also good, as are the sculpts at Dark Sword miniatures and others. CMoN also retails a variety of crazy-detailed resin sets.

(And before you cry foul, the dude in the middle of the group shot is spin-cast resin, not injection molded anything. The one you see is the one I own, and, yes, I have spoken with the sculptor about the material and its various trade-offs.)

Wow those are much better quality than I've come to expect from resin or pewter! Thanks for sharing :)

[Azakael]

For more, I suggest tracking down more of Tom Meier's Thunderbolt Mountain. (Link omitted due to Forum rules.) Tre's work at Red Box is also good, as are the sculpts at Dark Sword miniatures and others. CMoN also retails a variety of crazy-detailed resin sets.

Dark Sword is my initial go-to for generic fantasy miniatures. They are worth the premium price versus Reaper.

[klarg1]

Wow those are much better quality than I've come to expect from resin or pewter! Thanks for sharing :)

With respect, it sounds like the majority of your experience with miniatures has been with Games Workshop. They make very high quality products, and they are the 800lb Gorilla in the market, but they are hardly the whole industry. The examples I posted were off the top of my head, and most of them came from my own painting blog - I did not do any research here.

Rather than taking a hard stand that your experiences with one or two companies is representative of the whole industry, you might enjoy going out to explore the vast breadth of your options.

I have personally worked with miniatures from over a dozen manufacturers, including Games Workshop, and I have at least a dozen more in my "long term" paint queue to try out. I have also worked with miniatures made of resin, pewter, lead, ABS, PVC, poured polyurethane resin, spin-cast resin and two-part "Green Stuff".

I am not unique. I am not a pro, and I am far from the most experienced painter I know, but I try to approach new products with an open mind. There is a lot to learn, and new toys to play with every day.

[Dropkick]

It's the antenna assemble for the re seen Wolverine. Just using basic superglue and I haven't roughed the surface.

Those bits use to stick to my fingers all the time.  I ended up using tweezers for the smaller pieces.  If you have a friend that works in electronics assembly see if they can get you an old pair of tweezers.  The make tweezers capable of handling 0402 size parts.  So even if the tips are bent you can easily straighten them out and they'll work great for what you'll need.

I found that washing metal mini's is a must.   I use a mix of pinesol and hot water with an old toothbrush.  I let them soak for a short while and scrub away, then rinse with hot water. 

For glue I have ended up using Loctite brand super glue gel.  I like the plastic bottle that acts as a squeezer cause it allows me to put the glue exactly where I want it and it doesn't get clumpy at the nozzle.  It costs a little more but for me it ends up saving money cause I use to only get a half a bottle before the nozzle was completely useless. 

Gluing can get tricky cause if you end up using too much glue it tends to bond with itself and not the metal.  If that happens you'll have to scrape off the build up and try gluing again. 

[Heavyguard]

Washing does greatly help in assembly too as pointed out. I just use a little dish soap in warm water then rinse them off and let them air dry for a day or so. For super glue you can get a gel type to that will stay and typically has a longer setting time allowing you to make and small corrections you need to with the small parts. You can also use Blu-Tac to help hold pieces in position while assembling the mini.

Here's a good site with some assembly tips and tools of the trade.

http://brianscache.com/builds/