Design a Troop transport that WORKS.

[Cannonshop]

What it has to do: Get 1 platoon of infantry minimum, into position, in a high-intensity scenario (that means the other player actually gets the idea that infantry can be dangerous and killing their transports can score cheap points and turn a match).

If you're relying on speed, you have to have enough speed to have a difficult TMM at MEDIUM RANGES where the opponent can hit with more than a single LRM or AC/2.

if you're relying on firepower, it must have sufficient protection to keep the firepower in operation while being fired upon.

If you're relying on armor, then it must be able to withstand (minimum) 2 hits with a Gauss Rifle or Clan ERPPC.

Cost should be low-this is for transporting a platoon of infantry, after all, not a Battlemech.

Like most of my challenges, this has more to do with thinking about how it is to be used-in this case, the mission is to get leg infantry with various weapons into position to be of value to your forces-as opposed to being about getting them to the near edge of the mapboard and dying in an explosion of machine-gun ammo (i.e. not like the book designs, this is actually supposed to be useful for accomplishing missions.)

Keep in mind the deployment rules for vehicles in Total Warfare or BMR(r) when you're designing this- dropping troops costs MP and you can't do it at flank, so for troop-droppin' you need to remember you're losing MP off your CRUISE speed.  Also keep in mind the vulnerability of motive systems-losing a wheel or taking track damage (or skirt damage) lowers your cruise (and thus, flank) every time it happens.

Please, design accordingly.

[gomiville]

One of the simplest designs I can think of is basically a speedy little armored box.

Adding weapons has two problems.  First, it might encourage the player/vehicle crew to act like a tank and get dead.  Two, unless it has a fusion engine, you're relying on ammunition stores that might go boom.

Instead, rely on both speed and armor for defense.  An outside shell of 30+ points on all aspects defends against double Gauss hits, at the least, and a speed of 8/12 gives you a TMM of +3, even when dropping off grunts.  I considered using a wheeled or hover chassis, which makes the speed part easier, but tracked can cover more ground and is slightly less vulnerable to mobility crits.  A 25t VTOL version of the armored box can reach speeds of 12/18, with slightly less armor, but that's only +4 TMM and additional crashing risks (plus, you seemed to be asking for ground units).

So:

Code: [Select]

Tracked CV, 30 tons
Internal Structure: 3 tons
Control Systems: 1.5 tons
Engine (8/12, 240-class Fuel Cell): 14 tons
Armor (136pts Standard Plate, 40/32/32): 8.5 tons
Infantry (1 Foot Platoon): 3 tons

Cost: 605,800cbCost calculated by hand, so I might be wrong.  It's bog standard equipment, except for the Fuel Cell engine, a concession made for speed.  It's as light as possible, while still meeting armor and speed requirements.

Not very interesting, but it's a taxi, nothing more.  Load up a platoon and run for the objective.  Drop the troops and run for home.  Don't get brave, don't be stupid.

[The_Caveman]

Here's my idea, a fuel-cell powered ekranoplan with enough room for a jump platoon. Cost comes in a bit over one and a half mil, but it's succession wars tech. Adding ferro wouldn't hurt, of course.

Code: [Select]

Mass: 35 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: WiGE
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-D-D-A
Production Year: 3025
Cost: 1,632,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 604

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      20 points                3.50
Engine:             Fuel-Cell Engine             165                       7.50
    Cruise MP:  8
    Flank MP:   12
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             1                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.00
Lift Equipment:                                                            3.50
Turret:                                                                    0.50
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 120                  7.50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     28       
                                          Left/Right   25/25       
                                              Turret     24       
                                                Rear     18       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Machine Gun                                  FR        0         1         0.50
Machine Gun                                  T         0         1         0.50
2 LRM-5s                                     T         4         2         4.00
Infantry Compartment (4.0 tons)              BD        0         1         4.00
@LRM-5 (24)                                  BD        -         0         1.00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              BD        -         0         0.50

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      4    Points: 6
8g         1       1       1       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: EE, TUR(1/1/1), IF 1


The philosophy is zip in, drop troops, zip out. It's unfortunately not as fast as a hover or VTOL could be, but the tradeoff is better armor and you can still hit a +4 move modifier with an extra MP to drop the troops. Ideally you can insert a jump SRM platoon and retreat far enough away to provide covering fire with the LRMs, and the machine guns are useful for removing hostile PBI from the LZ.

[Cannonshop]

One of the simplest designs I can think of is basically a speedy little armored box.

Adding weapons has two problems.  First, it might encourage the player/vehicle crew to act like a tank and get dead.  Two, unless it has a fusion engine, you're relying on ammunition stores that might go boom.

Instead, rely on both speed and armor for defense.  An outside shell of 30+ points on all aspects defends against double Gauss hits, at the least, and a speed of 8/12 gives you a TMM of +3, even when dropping off grunts.  I considered using a wheeled or hover chassis, which makes the speed part easier, but tracked can cover more ground and is slightly less vulnerable to mobility crits.  A 25t VTOL version of the armored box can reach speeds of 12/18, with slightly less armor, but that's only +4 TMM and additional crashing risks (plus, you seemed to be asking for ground units).

So:

Code: [Select]

Tracked CV, 30 tons
Internal Structure: 3 tons
Control Systems: 1.5 tons
Engine (8/12, 240-class Fuel Cell): 14 tons
Armor (136pts Standard Plate, 40/32/32): 8.5 tons
Infantry (1 Foot Platoon): 3 tons

Cost: 605,800cbCost calculated by hand, so I might be wrong.  It's bog standard equipment, except for the Fuel Cell engine, a concession made for speed.  It's as light as possible, while still meeting armor and speed requirements.

Not very interesting, but it's a taxi, nothing more.  Load up a platoon and run for the objective.  Drop the troops and run for home.  Don't get brave, don't be stupid.

at 8/12 you're pulling a 6 at best (assuming no turns) when you go to deliver troops.  Each motive hit removes MP, but you're looking decent on those assuming you don't have to move them again. (earliest hits you face are weighted to motive system hits in both BMR(R) and Total Warfare play).

I disagree with only a single point: You want to get infantry into the action, you wouldn't use this to do it, for the same reason you don't want to put weapons on it.

to quell my disagreement, give an example of play where this is a good choice (i.e. it does the job of getting infantry into position to impact the fight-which is the whole POINT of troop transport designs-getting them to the edge of the field and making them walk 1 hex at a time doesn't do that.)

[Sabelkatten]

If you're carrying foot infantry into a fight your first priority is getting them into cover. That means you should ideally be able to unload them straight into cover, which means you want a tracked chassis than can actually get in there without getting stuck.

And you want a cheap carrier, which means you should keep it small - which in turn means speed, not armor, will be the main defense and armament will be limited or nonexistent.

Code: [Select]

RaceTrack light APC

Mass: 18 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 404 734 C-Bills
Battle Value: 304

Power Plant:  145 Fuel Cell Engine
Cruise Speed: 86,4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 129,6 km/h
Armor:  Heavy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    None
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                       8 points                2,00
Engine:             Fuel-Cell Engine             145                       6,00
    Cruise MP:  8
    Flank MP:   12
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             1                         0,00
Control Equipment:                                                         1,00
Lift Equipment:                                                            0,00
Armor:              Heavy Ferro-Fibrous          AV -  69                  3,50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     23       
                                          Left/Right   16/16       
                                                Rear     14       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anti-Missile System                          FR        1         1         0,50
Infantry Compartment (4.0 tons)              BD        0         1         4,00
@Anti-Missile System (12)                    BD        -         0         1,00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      2    Points: 3
8          0       0       0       0      1     0   Structure:  0
Special Abilities: AMS, ENE, EE
The RaceTrack doesn't carry any offensive weapons, its armor is limited to taking a single serious hit on any side, and it carries both an explosive power plant and ammo without CASE.

But it can hit a +4 TMM over broken terrain, carries an AMS for extra protection, and costs only ~400,000 C-bills. The explosiveness is more of a theoretical than a real disadvantage; you're far more likely to die from straight-up damage than a TAC...

Like Gomiville's design it's a pure transport. Run at flank speed until you get to the fighting position, then slow down to drive into it and drop your droops.

*********************

For a different take:

Code: [Select]

M299 support IFV

Mass: 29 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Introductory
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-X-C
Production Year: 0
Cost: 410 658 C-Bills
Battle Value: 462

Power Plant:  145 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 54,0 km/h
Flanking Speed: 86,4 km/h
Armor:  Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  LRM-5
    1  Infantry Compartment (4.0 tons)
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      12 points                3,00
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                145                      10,00
    Cruise MP:  5
    Flank MP:   8
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0,00
Control Equipment:                                                         1,50
Lift Equipment:                                                            0,00
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 120                  7,50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     40       
                                          Left/Right   30/30       
                                                Rear     20       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LRM-5                                        FR        2         1         2,00
Infantry Compartment (4.0 tons)              BD        0         1         4,00
@LRM-5 (24)                                  BD        -         0         1,00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      4    Points: 5
5          1       1       1       0      1     0   Structure:  1
Special Abilities: EE
The M299 isn't the best design possible, but it's about as simple to build and maintain as you can get. All SW-era tech. Still able to hit a +3 TMM on the straightways and take a pair of heavy hits on the front or sides it can also support its platoon at long range with its LRM5. I'd suggest loading half the M299s with smoke rounds to cover the advance while the rest packs HE to keep the enemy honest if they stay out of infantry weapon range.

[Sabelkatten]

at 8/12 you're pulling a 6 at best (assuming no turns) when you go to deliver troops.  Each motive hit removes MP, but you're looking decent on those assuming you don't have to move them again. (earliest hits you face are weighted to motive system hits in both BMR(R) and Total Warfare play).

I disagree with only a single point: You want to get infantry into the action, you wouldn't use this to do it, for the same reason you don't want to put weapons on it.

to quell my disagreement, give an example of play where this is a good choice (i.e. it does the job of getting infantry into position to impact the fight-which is the whole POINT of troop transport designs-getting them to the edge of the field and making them walk 1 hex at a time doesn't do that.)

On the turn your unloading your troops the carrier is unlikely to be a target anyway since it's the PBIs that carry the guns and are sitting in the same hex with a +0 TMM.

With 8/12 speed you can get from outside combat range to short range (my rule of thumb, about 25 hexes) in 3 turns. Anything faster requires a hover or VTOL that has to drop its cargo in open terrain.

[The_Caveman]

Code: [Select]

Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-A
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 7,755,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,758

Power Plant:  300 Fusion Engine
Cruise Speed: 32.4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Armor:  Vehicle Stealth Armor
Armament:
    1  LRM-20
    5  Vehicle Flamers
    1  Infantry Compartment (12.0 tons)
    1  Guardian ECM Suite

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      40 points               10.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                300                      28.50
    Cruise MP:  3
    Flank MP:   5
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         5.00
Lift Equipment:                                                            0.00
Limited Amphibious:                                              4.00
Armor:              Vehicle Stealth Armor        AV - 368                 23.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     92       
                                          Left/Right   92/92       
                                                Rear     92       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Vehicle Flamers                            FR        6         2         1.00
LRM-20                                       FR        6         1        10.00
Vehicle Flamer                               LS        3         1         0.50
(R) Vehicle Flamer                           RR        3         1         0.50
Vehicle Flamer                               RS        3         1         0.50
Infantry Compartment (12.0 tons)             BD        0         1        12.00
Guardian ECM Suite                           BD        0         1         1.50
CASE                                         BD        -         1         0.50
@Vehicle Flamer (20)                         BD        -         0         1.00
@LRM-20 (12)                                 BD        -         0         2.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:     12    Points: 18
3t         2       2       2       0      4     0   Structure:  4
Special Abilities: ECM, STL, CASE, HT1, LRM 1/1/1, IF 1

A tongue-in-cheek design for sure, this one won't win any points for being cheap, but it sure is cheesy. Advantage: deploys a whole company of infantry rather than just a platoon, and 23 tons of stealth armor makes it a PITA to take down as it slowly crawls your way. It's also got limited amphibious capability so it can move through shallow water.

[Sharpnel]

@ Caveman: Talking about putting all of your eggs in one basket. A very big basket, but a basket nonetheless

[Daryk]

It's under 400,000 C-Bills, 5/8 and can take 30 points of damage on any face.  The SRM can be replaced with two RL-10s to increase the infantry compartment by a ton, or the MGs could be removed to make the SRM an LRM-5.

Code: [Select]

Mass: 34 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Introductory
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-C-C-A
Production Year: 3025
Cost: 360,237 C-Bills
Battle Value: 550

Power Plant:  170 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 54.0 km/h
Flanking Speed: 86.4 km/h
Armor:  Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  SRM-2
    2  Machine Guns
    1  Infantry Compartment (3.0 tons)
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      20 points                3.50
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                170                      12.00
    Cruise MP:  5
    Flank MP:   8
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.00
Lift Equipment:                                                            0.00
Turret:                                                                    0.50
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 152                  9.50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     31       
                                          Left/Right   30/30       
                                              Turret     31       
                                                Rear     30       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Machine Guns                               T         0         2         1.00
SRM-2                                        T         2         1         1.00
Infantry Compartment (3.0 tons)              BD        0         1         3.00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              BD        -         0         0.50
@SRM-2 (50)                                  BD        -         0         1.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 6
5t         1       1       0       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: EE, TUR(1/1/0)

[Vition2]

I started out with the idea of a trailer/bunker concept built around vehicular stealth armor, but that fell apart when I realized that I needed to include ECM suites in the bunkers too, and didn't have the weight to do so, maybe I'll come back to that.  A bit more standard is this little thing.  Similar to a lot of the above, it relies on speed to get in and out quick, but seems to fall into a middle ground.  It has some weapons - mostly to defend it from attacking infantry or to support the infantry it's dropping off, but is fairly fragile with only 4 tons of standard armor to it, on the upside it's just barely above 500k c-bills.

McInfantry Transporter
Mass: 25 tons
Motive Type: Tracked
Engine: 225 Fuel Cell - 9/14
Armor: 64 points standard (17/16/15)
Equipment:
3 Machine Guns (100 rds ammo)
Infantry Platoon
Cost: 504,375 c-bills

edit: oops, forgot the price

[gomiville]

I disagree with only a single point: You want to get infantry into the action, you wouldn't use this to do it, for the same reason you don't want to put weapons on it.

to quell my disagreement, give an example of play where this is a good choice (i.e. it does the job of getting infantry into position to impact the fight-which is the whole POINT of troop transport designs-getting them to the edge of the field and making them walk 1 hex at a time doesn't do that.)

I don't understand your objection.  The reason I didn't put weapons on it were unrelated action and explosiveness.  My design has neither.  You can't really use it for anything but transporting troops, and it's as unexplosive as I can make it.

You could maybe add in armored motive protection, but that dramatically increases the weight and cost (I considered it early on, but it's too much).

Using this is simple.  Run, dump and run away.  That's it.  I'm assuming this is working with covering forces, that can be shooting at something while this is running. 

Given the design requirements you listed in the OP, I'm not sure what you're objecting to.  It's not fancy, but it meets requirements.

[The_Caveman]

I'm assuming this is working with covering forces, that can be shooting at something while this is running.

There's the big question, isn't it? Are we to assume this transport is being deployed without the obvious lance of Awesomes to provide suppressing fire while it moves its troops into position? Because who does that?

[Sabelkatten]

There's the big question, isn't it? Are we to assume this transport is being deployed without the obvious lance of Awesomes to provide suppressing fire while it moves its troops into position? Because who does that?

Actually, if the carriers mounts a decent amount of LRMs deployment can reasonably be just moving to a shooting position...

[Cannonshop]

On the turn your unloading your troops the carrier is unlikely to be a target anyway since it's the PBIs that carry the guns and are sitting in the same hex with a +0 TMM.

With 8/12 speed you can get from outside combat range to short range (my rule of thumb, about 25 hexes) in 3 turns. Anything faster requires a hover or VTOL that has to drop its cargo in open terrain.

are you kidding? it's at the unload that those 'guns' (the troops) are at their most vulnerable.  maybe it's the group I've played with over the years, but that would make the dropsite a PRIORITY target for anyone across the table from me.  ("Look! easy target!")

I've played against guys like Deathrider6.  He's taken to prioritizing anything I have that can carry infantry, esp. when it stops short of full cruise movement...

[gomiville]

There's the big question, isn't it? Are we to assume this transport is being deployed without the obvious lance of Awesomes to provide suppressing fire while it moves its troops into position? Because who does that?

I'm assuming some kind of supporting forces.  Some LRM carriers even.

If you're deploying just infantry and their carriers, then some kind of massive IFV is probably the way to go.  A 100 ton tracked beast with some infantry space.  Because then you're not looking for a troop carrier, but something to engage heavier forces, almost regardless of the infantry.

[Vition2]

Okay, updated my Drop-a-box design.  This vehicle is intended on stealthily moving forward, dropping a trailer - usually with a platoon of infantry inside it and heavy support weapons.  In addition the Drop-a-box carries an additional platoon internally which can dismount either with the trailer or at some other point on the battlefield.  The speed of the Drop-a-box is such that it can quickly move from the frontlines to the rear to pick up other trailers and deploy them where needed.  As the trailers are quickly able to be attached or detached the builder often packages bundles of boxes together to sell with a single vehicle.

Drop-a-box
Motive Type: Tracked
Engine: 300 XL Fusion (6/9 with trailer, 10/15 unloaded)
Heat Sinks: 10
Armor: 80 pts vehicular stealth (22/20/18)
Equipment [F/S/R]:
Infantry Platoon
2 Machine Guns (100 rds of ammo) [2/0/0]
Guardian ECM
Trailer Hitch
Cost: 3,835,650

LRM Box
Motive Type: Tracked
Engine: 10 Fusion (0/0)
Heat Sinks: 10
Armor: 104 pts standard (30/26/22)
Equipment [F/S/R]:
Infantry Platoon
LRM 10 (24 rds of ammo) [1/0/0]
Cost: 250,008

Observation Box
Motive Type: Tracked
Engine: 10 Fusion (0/0)
Heat Sinks: 10
Armor: 104 pts vehicular stealth (30/26/22)
Equipment [F/S/R]:
Infantry Platoon
3x TAG [1/1/0]
Machine Gun (100 rds ammo)
Guardian ECM
Cost: 922,600

Anti-Infantry Box
Motive Type: Tracked
Engine: 10 Fusion (0/0)
Heat Sinks: 10
Armor: 104 pts standard (30/26/22)
Equipment [F/S/R]:
Infantry Platoon
4 Light Machine Guns (200 rds of ammo) [2/1/0]
4 Machine Guns (200 rds of ammo) [1/1/1]
Medium Laser [1/0/0]
Cost: 282,400

Laser Box
Motive Type: Tracked
Engine: 10 Fusion (0/0)
Heat Sinks: 10
Armor: 104 pts standard (30/26/22)
Equipment [F/S/R]:
Infantry Platoon
Large Laser [1/0/0]
3 Machine Guns (100 rds ammo) [0/1/1]
Cost: 322,600

Sneaky-Sneaky Box
Motive Type: Tracked
Engine: 10 Fusion (0/0)
Heat Sinks: 10
Armor: 96 pts standard (26/24/22)
Equipment [F/S/R]:
3 Infantry Platoons
Guardian ECM
Cost: 798,016

Ballistic Box - this one's just an example of a primarily turret-type box rather than a troop movement one.
Motive Type: Tracked
Engine: 10 Fusion (0/0)
Heat Sinks: 10
Armor: 104 pts standard (30/26/22)
Equipment [F/S/R]:
Ultra AC/5 (20 rds of ammo) [1/0/0]
Cost: 380,800

[Sabelkatten]

On the turn your unloading your troops the carrier is unlikely to be a target anyway since it's the PBIs that carry the guns and are sitting in the same hex with a +0 TMM.

With 8/12 speed you can get from outside combat range to short range (my rule of thumb, about 25 hexes) in 3 turns. Anything faster requires a hover or VTOL that has to drop its cargo in open terrain.

are you kidding? it's at the unload that those 'guns' (the troops) are at their most vulnerable.  maybe it's the group I've played with over the years, but that would make the dropsite a PRIORITY target for anyone across the table from me.  ("Look! easy target!")

I've played against guys like Deathrider6.  He's taken to prioritizing anything I have that can carry infantry, esp. when it stops short of full cruise movement...

Please re-read what I wrote. It's because the 'guns' are an easy target that the carrier becomes a low-priority target.

Turn 1: Loaded carrier at full flank: High-priority difficult target (+4 TMM or so).
Turn 2: Carrier slows and unloads. Enemy can shoot at empty carrier with ~+2 TMM or PBIs with +0. If the enemy starts shooting up my carriers at that point I'll be happy since it's fire not directed at my infantry!

If you're talking about something else I honestly have no idea at all what you're on about. Do you want 40k teleporters?  In CBT your choices are speeds of ~8/12 and the ability to unload in woods or similar, or speeds of ~10/15 and unload in the open. You can get a bit more speed if you don't bother with armor, but then you're at the mercy of the AE round thrown in your direction.

[Cannonshop]

are you kidding? it's at the unload that those 'guns' (the troops) are at their most vulnerable.  maybe it's the group I've played with over the years, but that would make the dropsite a PRIORITY target for anyone across the table from me.  ("Look! easy target!")

I've played against guys like Deathrider6.  He's taken to prioritizing anything I have that can carry infantry, esp. when it stops short of full cruise movement...

Please re-read what I wrote. It's because the 'guns' are an easy target that the carrier becomes a low-priority target.

Turn 1: Loaded carrier at full flank: High-priority difficult target (+4 TMM or so).
Turn 2: Carrier slows and unloads. Enemy can shoot at empty carrier with ~+2 TMM or PBIs with +0. If the enemy starts shooting up my carriers at that point I'll be happy since it's fire not directed at my infantry!

If you're talking about something else I honestly have no idea at all what you're on about. Do you want 40k teleporters?  In CBT your choices are speeds of ~8/12 and the ability to unload in woods or similar, or speeds of ~10/15 and unload in the open. You can get a bit more speed if you don't bother with armor, but then you're at the mercy of the AE round thrown in your direction.

given how damage and criticals happen, you're at that mercy anyway-but...

to do damage, most infantry (not field guns) has to be close.  given how inf. take damage, it's easier to disable the carrier until you're in machine-gun range (unless you're loading fraggies in your LRMs, which are pretty much ONLY for infantry, or a flamer-which requires being even CLOSER.  cluster weapons are 'kind of okay' but most munchkin kind don't load them.)
That means your armored box has to drop them close (infantry movement distances aren't exactly fantastic unless you're running suits.)

A couple opportunistic shots is kinda nice to have-esp. to open points on enemy 'mechs (units) for the infantry's crit-seeking features to exploit.

[Feign]

Having trouble with disembarking outside of cover?  Bring your cover with you!  Sure, the infantry can't fire out of the smoke if they're so deep in it (unless they are, say on a level of a building above it, anyway) but they couldn't fire while disembarking anyway.  Between the Stealth and the Smoke and the implied TAG infantry, this thing was screaming Spec. Ops. operating operational operations...  When you need to extract some VIP or another from the middle of a battlefield on a semi-regular basis, accept no substitutes.

SOISEV

Mass: 50 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Hovercraft
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3078
Cost: 1,661,667 C-Bills
Battle Value: 622

Power Plant:  115 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 75.6 km/h
Flanking Speed: 118.8 km/h
Armor:  Vehicular Stealth
Armament:
    3  MML-5s
    1  Guardian ECM Suite
    1  Infantry Bay (6.0 tons)

Overview:
The Special Operations Insertion Support and Evacuation Vehicle, or SOISEV is a pretty straightforward vehicle.  In theory, it enters an area stealthily, disembarks troops under smoke cover, withdraws to support them with indirect LRM fire and then repeats the process under more smoke cover if necessary to retrieve said infantry.

In practice, the SOISEV is relatively weak LRM support, but a spectacular (if expensive) Jump Infantry delivery vehicle.  This is mostly due to the vehicle's Stealth systems and ability to put up a highly effective smoke screen.  If the SOISEV is caught off guard or draws fire from area-effecting weaponry, it is suddenly painfully fragile.

Quirks: Hard to Maintain, Power Reverse


================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      25 points                5.00
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                115                       8.00
    Cruise MP:  7
    Flank MP:   11
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            5.00
Turret:                                                                    0.50
Armor:              Industrial                   AV -  91                  8.50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     20       
                                          Left/Right   18/18       
                                              Turret     19       
                                                Rear     16       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 MML-5s                                     FR        6         2         6.00
MML-5                                        T         3         1         3.00
Guardian ECM Suite                           BD        0         1         1.50
Infantry Bay (6.0 tons)                      BD        0         1         6.00
@MML-5 (LRM Semi-G) (24)                     BD        -         0         1.00
@MML-5 (SRM Smoke) (20)                      BD        -         0         1.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 6
7h         2       2       1       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: ECM, EE, TUR(1/1/1), IF 1

[FedComGirl]

Have you looked at the APCs in TRO:3060?  They already do most of what you want. Only carrying 1 platoon gives you an extra 3 tons to use. You can also play around with engines in order to have different weapons and possibly gain more weight.

[Siegfried Marcus]

I would probably do something like this.

    Mass: 30 tons
    Movement Type: Tracked
    Power Plant: GM 120 ICE
    Speed: 4/6
    Armor: 120
    Armament:
        3X Machine Guns (0.5 tons ammo)
        2X Flamers (Vehicle) (1 ton ammo
    6 tons cargo
    Cost:        781,950 C-bills   
    Battle Value:        351

I want the economy of scale that comes with being able to move 2 platoons.  The focus on armor (although barely meeting your requirements) encouraged me to load it with enough weapons to be a major threat to opposing infantry, if it can get close enough.  Of course you would only want to use it offensively after it unloads and if it hasn't taken heavy damage already.  The minimal tech requirements make it suitable for militia forces.

If you wanted a dedicated APC for transporting low-value infantry, you could drop all weapons save 1 MG to add another 3 tons of cargo space.  (Side note: Doesn't transporting 28 infantry for 3 tons seem awfully generous.  (165 lbs soldier + 50 lbs gear) * 28 = 3 tons, but people don't stack as nicely as say bullets, especially if you want them to be able to deploy quickly.)

[Cannonshop]

Have you looked at the APCs in TRO:3060?  They already do most of what you want. Only carrying 1 platoon gives you an extra 3 tons to use. You can also play around with engines in order to have different weapons and possibly gain more weight.

I Have! (those designs have a singular weakness in that not only do their defensive weapons have short range, but they are also confined to an exceedingly narrow arc of fire now-which is a change from when they were designed under BMR.)

They make excellent "cheap kills" targets and tommy-cookers.  (lots of bodies and explosive ammo packed into a thinly armoured shell that has proven to be not only easy to open, but since it IS a cheap kill, more likely to draw fire and attention, instead of less.)

The basis of this challenge, is to build a troop carrier that doesn't rely on some weird in-universe-fiction-only concept of chivalry where the enemy won't shoot you because you don't pose an immediate threat with your fixed, short-range, largely ineffective machine gun mounting, but rather, an infantry carrier that is useful against across-the-table human players that WILL target low priority threats to pad their kill counts and score victory points, esp. if (as is the case with the 3060 carriers) it's a relatively easy target that won't take as long to take out, at significantly lower risk than, say, firing on something like a Maxim, Goblin, etc.

basically two out of three things:

1. Tough and hit back
2. Fast and Tough
3. Fast and Hit Back.

The TRO vehicles are mediocrity-they fail all three.  (They aren't tough, largely can't hit back, and they have 'average' speed.)

The usual justifications being that "They don't pose a threat, nobody's going to shoot them" only...that doesn't work on the table that way, even if it might in the stories. 

So, what I'm looking for, is one of those three-it would be nice to get multiple coverage (Tough, fast, and shooty) but I'm more interested in seeing at least ONE of those fulfilled with (and I reiterate a third time) an eye for what actual players do.

[Siegfried Marcus]

It seems to me that you pretty much have to go high tech to get what you want.

    Mass: 20 tons
    Movement Type: Tracked
    Power Plant: LTV 160 Fusion XL
    Speed: 8/12
    Armor: Heavy Ferro-Fibrous (129) (6.5 tons)
    Armament:
        none
    Cargo: 6 tons
    Cost:        1,567,000 C-bills   
    Battle Value:        398

It's fairly fast, tracked, and can have over 30 armor per location.  There is your 2 out of 3.  Best of all, it can move 2 platoons.  I considered giving it an LRM 5 because I would be worried about my opponent not shooting at it, killing the infantry instead, and leaving me a useless vehicle once I run out of infantry to transport.  But if I have infantry worthy of such a capable transport, I would rather get twice the utility out of my vehicle's primary purpose.  Although it is very high tech, that doesn't really have a huge effect on cost or BV, at least not compared to trying to do the same job with lower tech.

[Daryk]

*snip*
basically two out of three things:

1. Tough and hit back
2. Fast and Tough
3. Fast and Hit Back.
*snip*

Is cost no longer a criterion?

[gomiville]

1. Tough and hit back
2. Fast and Tough
3. Fast and Hit Back.

If a cruise of 8 isn't fast enough, how about a VTOL at 10/15?  A 25t model, with maximum armor (127pts) and a fuel cell engine, could carry a 3t infantry platoon and an LRM5 with a ton of ammo.  Fast, tough (ish) and able to hit back at range.

However, far more vulnerable than a ground unit, when encountering ground fire when trying to land troops.  And only an extra +1 TMM for movement, and no ground cover.

[Cannonshop]

Is cost no longer a criterion?

"Cost" ends up being a "Nice to have".  Otherwise (as you may have noticed) you end up with a recycle of what's already printed.

[FedComGirl]

I Have! (those designs have a singular weakness in that not only do their defensive weapons have short range, but they are also confined to an exceedingly narrow arc of fire now-which is a change from when they were designed under BMR.)

snip

That's where customization comes in. Swap the ICE Engine for a FC Engine. That gains you 2 tons. Pulling the existing weapons and 1 infantry platoon gets you 4.5 more tons. That's 6.5 tons to play with. Use 1 ton for a turret and armor. A little armor rearranging or patchwork armor and each location will survive a PPC hit. If you need more speed another .5 tons will get you a super charger. Now you've got 5 tons to work with. That's plenty of missile weapons. Or a medium laser or a LAC/2 or a PAC/2 or a LRC or Mortars, or whatever. What you mount depends on what you plan to do with it. My favorite is a 8.8cm Tank Cannon for low tech direct fire. A 3-6 point hit at 15+ hexes isn't bad. But other weapons are good for providing cover fire so maybe make the APC modular or an OMNI?

[Jackmc]

For $767,625 c, you can get a 15 ton 32/32/32 tracked box that moves 8/12 and has a 3 ton infantry bay and the bonus of a fusion engine to provide recharge support to your laser squads.

If you're going to mount weaps, I'd favor either a Lt. PPC paired with a Sm. Pulse or a Plasma Rifle.

-Jackmc

[gomiville]

For $767,625 c, you can get a 15 ton 32/32/32 tracked box that moves 8/12 and has a 3 ton infantry bay and the bonus of a fusion engine to provide recharge support to your laser squads.

If you're going to mount weaps, I'd favor either a Lt. PPC paired with a Sm. Pulse or a Plasma Rifle.

-Jackmc

A 15t chassis maxes out at 97pts of armor (25/24/24), and you'd need an XL engine, leaving only 0.5 tons, which won't fit any of those weapons.

[Jackmc]

A 15t chassis maxes out at 97pts of armor (25/24/24), and you'd need an XL engine, leaving only 0.5 tons, which won't fit any of those weapons.

Are you using H-FFA for your armor?  My calcs are showing 32 points in each arc with H-FFA.

As for the weapons not fitting, I thought that was so flamingly obvious that that would fit on a 15 ton chassis that I didn't mention it as not fitting.  You need a chassis at least double the size for that.

-Jackmc