New and Upcoming Releases, Vol. X: All Systems Nominal...ish

[NeonKnight]

What I would like to see:

Jenner Legacy Anthology
I have imagined that the Jenner to Jenner IIC mystery, might have been caused by a Jenner that has made the journey to the Clan HW and lead to the Jenner IIC.
Suggestion: DC warrior -> Pirate -> Hanseatic League -> Pirate -> Nueva Castile -> Dark Caste -> Clans -> Jenner IIC development
It could offer a lot of interesting perspectives.

More likely the Jenner made it to the Home World via Kerensky's great Emmigration

[Maingunnery]

More likely the Jenner made it to the Home World via Kerensky's great Emmigration

That is possible, but tight in time and not such an interesting story.

[NeonKnight]

That is possible, but tight in time and not such an interesting story.

Quite possibly, but attributing Occam's Razor, more likely the correct one.

But certainly not the more interesting one.

[beachhead1985]

Because one of the most common criticisms of BattleTech is that the minis look bad/are horribly outdated?

I'll call an audible here; I have no sense of aesthetics. I blame the autism. So, I simply don't see it.

And, "Most common"? I doubt that. I have literally never heard anyone off the MWO or BTPC communities complain that what we need is a stop-drop on the introtech mechs and to redo the canon art for them.

But frankly that's like saying that the M4 Sherman has aged badly and is out-dated and therefor all future depictions of Sherman Tanks going forward need to be re-designed to have broader appeal. In-universe it makes almost no-sense why this would be done and with the Commando's almost proprietary production, it makes no sense why it should vary in appearance due to local methods. And don't point out the M51 to me; you aren't talking about some crazy, updated version of the basic design, are you? We're talking about re-imagining the most common mechs in the game with new art, to be accompanied inevitably by yet another new technical readout depicting the re-imagined art, creating the impression that all the re-designed mechs look like this and always have, right? Am I warm?

Seems like effort better spent on units we don't already have a minis of, to me. But whatever, awesome for the artist to have the work, they clearly do a great job; the NuSeens look great, but next to them, I think the resculpt Commando looks fine. I'll just pray it looks as much like a Commando as possible and nothing like the MWO/BTPC Commando. Frankly, I thought the AS lancepack minis were and are great and I just wish they were more broadly available; say like individually; in an online lance and company-ordering system.

But, hey; whatever. Redo the art all you like. It will still act like a Commando on the map, so whatever.

[Lorcan Nagle]

And, "Most common"? I doubt that. I have literally never heard anyone off the MWO or BTPC communities complain that what we need is a stop-drop on the introtech mechs and to redo the canon art for them.

From minis games players it's definitely a common complaint.  I see it all the time on games forums, and hear it in person in games shops and at cons.  And when I'm demoing BattleTech pretty much everyone prefers the newer mini designs to the older ones.  So the flagship product absolutely should reflect the aesthetic that the public seems to prefer.

But frankly that's like saying that the M4 Sherman has aged badly and is out-dated and therefor all future depictions of Sherman Tanks going forward need to be re-designed to have broader appeal.

I'd see it more like if there was a hypothethical Star Trek TV series coming out set around 10 years before TOS, and the producers decided to go with a modern aesthetic instead of slavishly aping the look of a 50-year old TV show.

Seems like effort better spent on units we don't already have a minis of, to me.

Given that CGL are doing the plastic minis, it almost certainly won't effect IWM's release schedule.

But, hey; whatever. Redo the art all you like. It will still act like a Commando on the map, so whatever.

And that's the thing at the end of the day, if we have a box set that appeals more to new players, and the record sheet remains the same, it's a win-win situation.

[Maingunnery]

Quite possibly, but attributing Occam's Razor, more likely the correct one.

Occam's Razor is not really applicable here, quoting 3039: "The design was one of the first to be developed and produced after Kerensky’s exodus"

But certainly not the more interesting one.

How so?

[Sartris]

I find it more likely that a Jenner IIC based on exodus design would be based on the JR7-A, which debuted five years before the Op Exodus. It is possible that a prototype or first-run model of the -D or -F that appeared basically at the moment of departure, but literally would have been handed off by friends at LAW or sympathetic DCMS logistics officers as the fleet pulled out of town.

Still, any of those scenarios are certainly possible

[Sentinel373]

I'll call an audible here; I have no sense of aesthetics. I blame the autism. So, I simply don't see it.

And, "Most common"? I doubt that. I have literally never heard anyone off the MWO or BTPC communities complain that what we need is a stop-drop on the introtech mechs and to redo the canon art for them.

For me this is definetly true. I grew up with the videogames and the tv show. but I would not be working on battletech today if it wasen't for MWO's improved mech designs.
And i definetly would refuse to work for battletech if i had to "sculpt" those terrible 1980's designs. but i'm glad that some of my favorites are getting a modernized redesign.

[NeonKnight]

Occam's Razor is not really applicable here, quoting 3039: "The design was one of the first to be developed and produced after Kerensky’s exodus"
How so?

As stated, the JR7-F appeared a full 5 years before the exodus, so blueprints etc would be feasible.

As to the more interesting, that was your scenario that would be more interesting.

Think of all the 'based upon a real incident' type movies. They could do their utmost to recreate what really happened, or make it way more interesting.

The example I always use when I talk with friends, is I could make a movie based on one of my average days.

In the First iteration, the movie would follow the basic plot of:

Main Actor to portray me is some 'blah' actor, pudgy, slightly overweight, and the personality of day old porridge.

I wake Up
I drive to work
I sit at a desk all day doing mundane tasks
I drive Home
I have dinner
I go to sleep

In the second iteration, the plot would be:

Main Actor is Daniel Craig, Matt Damon, Brad Pitt, etc

I get up
I drive to work, and on the way there, meet a women who drags me into the internal world of Espionage
Many gunfights, car chases, etc occur
World Ruin is avoided, the mystery woman and I kiss, and part ways, with longing glances at each other
I make my way and collaps into bed extremely exhausted, but saddened that my life returns to normal the next mornign
Just as I'm falling asleep, the mystery woman re-appears just in time to drag me from my home as it explodes.
WHAT NOW!
Credits roll

Now, the second instance is waaaay more exciting, and I can honestly say, It is based on a real incident, of course, the real incident is the boring me getting up and going to work. the rest, exciting filler.

But which would be the more exciting one to read about/see a movie about?

[Maingunnery]

As stated, the JR7-F appeared a full 5 years before the exodus, so blueprints etc would be feasible.

Jenner JR7-A (as referred by Sartris) = 2778 And it immediately went extinct. This makes me think of a prototype.
Jenner JR7-F = 2784 This is the same year as the exodus and considering the text it likely happened in the months afterwards.

As to the more interesting, that was your scenario that would be more interesting.

Think of all the 'based upon a real incident' type movies. They could do their utmost to recreate what really happened, or make it way more interesting.

The example I always use when I talk with friends, is I could make a movie based on one of my average days.

In the First iteration, the movie would follow the basic plot of:

Main Actor to portray me is some 'blah' actor, pudgy, slightly overweight, and the personality of day old porridge.

I wake Up
I drive to work
I sit at a desk all day doing mundane tasks
I drive Home
I have dinner
I go to sleep

In the second iteration, the plot would be:

Main Actor is Daniel Craig, Matt Damon, Brad Pitt, etc

I get up
I drive to work, and on the way there, meet a women who drags me into the internal world of Espionage
Many gunfights, car chases, etc occur
World Ruin is avoided, the mystery woman and I kiss, and part ways, with longing glances at each other
I make my way and collaps into bed extremely exhausted, but saddened that my life returns to normal the next mornign
Just as I'm falling asleep, the mystery woman re-appears just in time to drag me from my home as it explodes.
WHAT NOW!
Credits roll

Now, the second instance is waaaay more exciting, and I can honestly say, It is based on a real incident, of course, the real incident is the boring me getting up and going to work. the rest, exciting filler.

But which would be the more exciting one to read about/see a movie about?

Sorry, I have no idea what you are trying to communicate here.
But to clarify myself, I think it would be interesting to see all those rare perspectives (Hanseatic League, Nueva Castile, Dark Caste).

[Empyrus]

Jenner JR7-A (as referred by Sartris) = 2778 And it immediately went extinct. This makes me think of a prototype.
Jenner JR7-F = 2784 This is the same year as the exodus and considering the text it likely happened in the months afterwards.

Curiously, the Jenner IIC 2 resembles the JR7-A more than the F. And the Jenner IIC standard is quite different from JR7-F as the Spheroid Jenners are laser boats primarily (JR7-D sports the SRM for additional firepower but it is not its primary weapon).

I think the Exodus fleet took only JR7-As with them. Evidently, the Jenner wasn't popular early on among the Clans, for it took very long to produce a IIC version.

What prompted the Nova Cats to produce the Jenner in 3040s is unknown (i make assumption that the Nova Cats introduced it because they introduced all the variants, usually the heaviest user of the primary is the one to introduce variants).
Perhaps they needed something for their second-line units, dusted off some old plans and figured the Jenner would work with some adjustments, probably based on the combat data from Operation Klondike, though evidently the original model had some merit and led to Jenner IIC 2.
Perhaps Wolf's Dragoons reported the Jenner's use to the Clans, if so this might have influenced the Nova Cats to introduce the 'Mech reworked with Clan-tech, along with need for it.

[NeonKnight]

Sorry, I have no idea what you are trying to communicate here.
But to clarify myself, I think it would be interesting to see all those rare perspectives (Hanseatic League, Nueva Castile, Dark Caste).

What I am trying to say is:

Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the simpler one is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is.

Ergo, in the case of the Jenner, you stated:

Jenner Legacy Anthology
I have imagined that the Jenner to Jenner IIC mystery, might have been caused by a Jenner that has made the journey to the Clan HW and lead to the Jenner IIC.
Suggestion: DC warrior -> Pirate -> Hanseatic League -> Pirate -> Nueva Castile -> Dark Caste -> Clans -> Jenner IIC development

And I stated, More likely was taken with Kerensky's Excodus.

Now, under Occam's Razor, mine is simplistic, and likely the correct interpretation.

I THEN SAID:

But certainly not the more interesting one.

In other words, I was AGREEING with you. Yours would be the more interesting one to read, hence my Movie Example.

[NeonKnight]

Jenner JR7-A (as referred by Sartris) = 2778 And it immediately went extinct. This makes me think of a prototype.
Jenner JR7-F = 2784 This is the same year as the exodus and considering the text it likely happened in the months afterwards.

Sorry, I mispoke when I said the JR7-F (what with it being so common)

I'd be more inclined to think the JR7-A was not a prototype, but rather the Jenner Mech Kerensky and Company took on the Exodus, and the reason it's listed as being Extinct for the early succession War (2781-2900) is likely not because it went extinct on January 1, 2781, but rather the designs etc were removed from the Innersphere.

[Empyrus]

JR7-A is a prototype per TRO3025. It speaks of the original Jenner as having "turret"-mounted large laser and twin medium lasers. Now, the text was a bit unclear as designations go, referring JR7-F as the original later on while noting it has four medium lasers.
Evidently the -A model was created later IRL to represent the actual prototype.

I would assume some prototypes were retained by Kuritans, but were either scrapped, upgraded to -Fs or destroyed in Succession Wars.

The -A's lineage is evident in Jenner IIC 2, i think.

[Sartris]

blueprints etc would be feasible.

this probably makes the most sense. if the -A was a prototype and the -F was only just entering production, it would seem far more likely that plans might be passed along than a working copy, especially since the blueprints probably existed for some time before production and might have even included specifications for variants that were never produced (like an all-SRM endeavor).

A blueprint-only scenario might also explain the strange intro date, the plans found in a forgotten, dusty warehouse on a noteputer or the like. The Jenner IIC is the only IIC base model produced after 2900 and before the invasion. It's also the only model of the IICs that wasn't a common sight in SLDF forces for decades or centuries (excepting the Commando, but I'm sure by the late 2700s enough were in service with Kerensky's forces). I don't remember ever seeing an explanation of why it took so long to appear.

[Colt Ward]

For me this is definetly true. I grew up with the videogames and the tv show. but I would not be working on battletech today if it wasen't for MWO's improved mech designs.
And i definetly would refuse to work for battletech if i had to "sculpt" those terrible 1980's designs. but i'm glad that some of my favorites are getting a modernized redesign.

To get back on track . . . like I said, the Cataphract to me is the one that looks off since it has a lot of curved armor while most mechs we have no go with a faceted series of flat panels.  I can understand the statement that the Awesome, Catapult and Commando are all old art.  I do not think they are bad, but I will wait to see what is done with those minis.

I also think some of the disagreement with this mirrors the discussion over the Combat Manuals going once again to the past (is this the 3rd or 4th time we got SBs for 3050?) instead of progressing to the future.  I regret we are not getting a more combined arms approach in a box using 'Armored Combat' rather than a game of mech combat . . . and besides not getting armor & BA we are not even getting Clan Mechs.

I understand its a new team, but the constant teasing of a Clan product being available if Clan players will just get this 3050 IS revisit product! has gotten a bit old.  Feels like Lucy holding that football out there one more time for Chuck . . .

[Wrangler]

I hope either TRO: Irregular Tech or Golden Century will be able to come out this year.

Succession Wars wasn't something i was looking for as far TRO goes.

[Cache]

The Locust is too large. Half of the prototype locusts we received were printed too large, and one of the large ones was primed. (And even still, behind the scenes, for nearly 15 years there has been a struggle between "let's keep this in scale" and "no, LARGER!")

I could swear it's been longer than 15 years. ;)

Are you looking at the boxed set minis being pre-assembled? If not, how many parts per mini are you trying to get in there?  Also, will there be an in-universe reasoning for the updated look? (Something to go with the time jump perhaps?)

[Sartris]

I also think some of the disagreement with this mirrors the discussion over the Combat Manuals going once again to the past (is this the 3rd or 4th time we got SBs for 3050?) instead of progressing to the future.  I regret we are not getting a more combined arms approach in a box using 'Armored Combat' rather than a game of mech combat . . . and besides not getting armor & BA we are not even getting Clan Mechs.

I understand its a new team, but the constant teasing of a Clan product being available if Clan players will just get this 3050 IS revisit product! has gotten a bit old.  Feels like Lucy holding that football out there one more time for Chuck . . .

to say nothing of the fact that the original run of the game spent 20 Year Update to Twlight of the Clans (1989-1998) in the 3050s.

The Combat Manual series struck me as a partial soft reboot that tried to capture the sudden popularity of Alpha Strike. In 2013, we got TRO and ER 3145, and then most of the print support went to AS and the Clan Invasion. After Wars of the Republic Era in 2014, it was all AS manuals, CMs, and lance packs for the better part of two years (with the exception of the wayward HB: Kurita and TRO 3150, a collection of already-existing units).

The BMM seems like another adjustment to the formula (back to a more mech-focused game), but at least this time it has us covered into the present with most of the gear to play in the Dark Ages.  The voices from the 3250 future in the last couple publications at least point back in the right direction. Hopefully, ilClan will show up sooner rather than later.

[Pat Payne]

Also, will there be an in-universe reasoning for the updated look? (Something to go with the time jump perhaps?)

We'll probably no more in-universe explanation than the one TPTB gave for the Classics which is "this is how they always looked. All indications to the contrary are false rumors. Spreading rumors is treason. This information is also Ultraviolet Clearance. And rumors. Please go to the nearest Happy Happy Fun Zone Execution Booth, Citizen. Have a nice day. Trust the Computer."

And let's face it, the art has been all over the place as far as representing what the 'mechs look like (for instance -- does the Dragon have a articulated hand or not?), so as fanon, just say that they came from a different factory or were an updated batch of 'mechs (or if you REALLY like the new designs, were how the original Star-League spec machines looked  O0)

[Stallion12]

Does anyone know what's available at gencon?

[SteelRaven]

There is a entire topic dedicated to Gencon
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=58343.0

[Wrangler]

How was the con, did anything find out further info on stuff coming out?

[pheonixstorm]

Besides minimum 6 months on the box sets?

[Moonsword]

I've split the Catapult discussion out from a point on the 19th and put it into another part of the forums.  That discussion is over in this thread, ladies and gentlemen.

As a reminder, when the moderation staff (Global Moderator and Administrator titles, Red and Blue Beemers respectively) say to drop a topic, that topic should be dropped, and any commentary should be directed over PMs to the staff.  Do not attempt to get a last word in edgewise, make a joke, or discuss it in the thread.  We can and will issue warnings for those behaviors as we see appropriate.

I've unlocked this thread so discussion may continue.  However, the moderation staff has observed this is a pattern in this specific thread, and we will be keeping a close eye on it in the future.  Please follow directions given by the moderation staff.

[Wrangler]

I am talking about new products coming out.

Was there any further discussion of new products coming out?  The Brent was going answer questions afterwords.  Did anyone remember anything he mentioned?

• IlClan being revamped (still keeping what was written) into maybe different kind of sourcebook vs the hybrid one mentioned in the past.
• Combat Manuals are KO, until another way to sell the series comes up. 
• IlClan stuff maybe in full next year by Gencon (per youtube video).

Aside from that, there wasn't alot stuff out.

[SteelRaven]

You forgot the new book, Legacy.

They also briefly mentioned other novels though only in passing.

[Wrangler]

You forgot the new book, Legacy.

They also briefly mentioned other novels though only in passing.

I was hoping they were going go into more detail into them. I know Pardoe is writing one of the ones not listed yet on Coming Attractions.  ComStarbook from Milan one, Coleman's novel Shadow of Faith is the other.  Then you have Stackpole's novellet of the Kell Hound's early years. 

[Doom]

They mentioned a YA-type BT trilogy by Jennifer Brozek.

[Sharpnel]

They mentioned a YA-type BT trilogy by Jennifer Brozek.

AS long as w don't have characters with sparkly skin I think w'll be okay.