Author Topic: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race  (Read 259367 times)

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #510 on: 17 July 2018, 15:06:39 »
Lyran Commonwealth, Turn IV:  2380-2389

Code: [Select]
Lyran Commonwealth, Turn Beginning 2380
Physical Assets:
Starting Shipyards: Alarion: 3/3  New Kyoto: 3/1  Tamar 1  Gibbs 1
Starting Warships:  Heimdaller II FFx6 30.378
Tyr CA x 6 44.3
Walkure CV x6 41.682
Staring Stations: Ribe Recharge Station x120 21
Staring Jumpships:  30 15
Starting Dropships:  0
Starting Small Craft: 600 6
Starting Fighters: 9000 45
Maintenance Value 203.36 (20.34)

Cash: 984M
Income:         93B
93.984


Expenses: 93.984
Maintenance: 23.9
(120% for Warships, 150% for Warship Carried Fighters)
Production Tyr CA x3 22.15
Production Walkure CV x3 20.841
Production Heimdaller II x 3 15.189
Production Fighters: 2000 10
Total: 92.08
Remainder 1.904


Lyran Commonwealth, Turn Ending 2389
Physical Assets:
Ending Shipyards: Alarion: 3/3  New Kyoto: 3/1  Tamar 1  Gibbs 1
Ending Warships:  Heimdaller II FF x 9 45.567
Tyr CA x 9 66.45
Walkure CV x 9 62.523
Ending Stations: Ribe Recharge Station x120 21
Ending Jumpships:  30 15
Ending Dropships:  0
Ending Small Craft: 600 6
Ending Fighters: 11K 55
Maintenance Value 271.54 (27.15)
Cash: 1.904

Policy:  We welcome the Terran Hegemony's Terraforming Technology, their corporations, their trade, and their money.  Once we know what worlds are being developed, we will put recharge stations over them, too.  To the degree possible, encourage immigration from across the Commonwealth to those worlds, and make them as 'Commonwealth' (instead of 'Donegal' or 'Tamar' or etc.) in their flavor and feel.  To the degree possible, we should learn, adapt, and adopt Terran Terraforming Technology for use on our own worlds ASAP - historic examples of minor economic powers stealing a march on major ones this way abound, and if we are then turning around and using the technology in our backfield, far away from Terra, it shouldn't generate too much notice.

Butterfly Note:  I see the Marsden Coup and the following revolt, came and were settled early.
« Last Edit: 17 July 2018, 17:19:02 by marcussmythe »

Kiviar

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #511 on: 17 July 2018, 15:56:40 »
And when the citizens of Covington looked up into the night sky, they knew that the stars held fear.

Nice.

Maingunnery

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #512 on: 17 July 2018, 17:10:02 »
FWL, Turn 4:  2380


[Admiralty]
The review is clear, the Phalanx Corvettes were being misused. Evidence has shown that the Phalanx-class was structurally misused by both their captains and several superior officers.
These incompetents have been removed from service, but additional measures will be taken. The Phalanx will be taken out of production and the remaining ships will be pooled together into one independent retaliatory group. They will receive tested captains who have shown that they can operate them as intended.

A part of the budget will be used for establishing more hidden planetary defense ASF wings.


Code: [Select]
Turn 2380

Available Shipyards
Atreus (3-3*)
Irian (3-1)
Loyalty (3-2)

Starting Assets Qty Total
Fighters 2232 11.160
Small Craft 240 2.400
Dropships 48 14.400
Jumpships 12 6.000
Phalanx (4631) 4 18.524
Heracles (8874) 18 159.732
Eros Station 8 4.760

(All Costs in Millions)
Banked 5.077
Budget 104.000

Maintenance % 10
Maintenance Costs 21.698
Prototype Costs 0
Shipyard Upgrades* 1 40.000
Research 0
Repairs 0

Construction
Fighters 1288 6.440
Small Craft 48 480
Dropships 8 2.400
Jumpships 0 0
Heracles (8874) 4 35.496
Eros Station (595) 0 0

Total Spent 106.514
Remaining 2.564
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

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marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #513 on: 17 July 2018, 18:42:29 »
Dumb Random Question:  Whats it cost to -move- a shipyard?  As in dissassemble and reassmble elsewhere?

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #514 on: 17 July 2018, 19:02:56 »
Also - really loved the writing, espc the writing of the Taurian/FS conflict.  I think the choice to have it happen early, before the accumulatio of Taurian Forts make it impossible, was a good one - and I really enjoyed the ‘look she already died please go home’ bit.

Also - as Davionista from the days of Battletech 2nd Edition, it is still nice to see them on occasion act like a bullying feudal state rather than ‘the bestest good guys, that ever was’.
« Last Edit: 17 July 2018, 19:16:18 by marcussmythe »

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #515 on: 17 July 2018, 19:25:55 »
Butterfly Note:  I see the Marsden Coup and the following revolt, came and were settled early.

Yeah, there have been a few butterflies thus far. The conquest of Rasalhague was delayed a couple years by Smegish deciding to make sure his convoys ran less often but had better protection(though conversely, that did make sure that the Rasalhaguers didn't even attempt to attack his ships), and of course the unification of the CC was moved up and the combat at Taurus moved back due to logistical concerns IRL. The Lyran coup was moved up because of Angler giving Marsden her tacit support - the head of the navy is a powerful ally in a coup, and it'll make his position much more secure, which lets him move sooner.

It didn't affect much in gameplay terms - I'd probably have given you the same budget either way, despite the extra couple years to settle things. I don't want players to feel forced to dive into the poorly-documented history of the setting so that they can write metagame-aware fluff to maximize their budget. But it seemed like a meaningful change from canon, and one worth reflecting in the outcomes at least a little.

Nice.

Yeah, I hoped you'd like that one. It seemed like great riff of the optimism in your fluff, and a good reflection of Etien's downward spiral.

The review is clear, the Phalanx Corvettes were being misused. Evidence has shown that the Phalanx-class was structurally misused by both their captains and several superior officers.
These incompetents have been removed from service, but additional measures will be taken. The Phalanx will be taken out of production and the remaining ships will be pooled together into one independent retaliatory group. They will receive tested captains who have shown that they can operate them as intended.

OOC, do you feel that I've been misusing them? It seemed reasonable enough to have the captain try to actually use his ship once it was stranded, instead of merely await potential repair while stuck in hostile space, but I have noticed that I've tended to beat up the escorts quite a bit thus far. In the case of Lurgatan, I was originally expecting to strand a Galahad instead, but I decided to be fair and roll for it, and the Phalanx was the victim of the drive failure instead. Lady Luck took you to the cleaners on that operation overall - the Capellan plan actually had so many gaping holes(mountains of unprotected JumpShips, launching an invasion with naval inferiority, etc.) that the commanding officer of the operation was named Admiral Oh Ver Luk in my notes, but they had a perfect luck roll to your near-minimal one, and it saved their asses.

Dumb Random Question:  Whats it cost to -move- a shipyard?  As in dissassemble and reassmble elsewhere?

I hadn't considered the possibility. Not cheap, certainly. Don't take this as an official ruling, but my first thought is that it would cost as much to move a yard to a new system as it'd cost to build a new one from scratch in a system with a discount(so $5B to move a level 1, $5+10=15B to move a level 2, etc.). Too much of the infrastructure is hard to move - the building happens in stations, which aren't easily KF-mobile, and the supporting factories planetside and work force can't just be dragged a couple hundred light years on a whim either.

Look on the bright side - your best yard complex is way back from the front lines, even if New Kyoto is a bit exposed.

Also - really loved the writing, espc the writing of the Taurian/FS conflict.  I think the choice to have it happen early, before the accumulatio of Taurian Forts make it impossible, was a good one - and I really enjoyed the ‘look she already died please go home’ bit.

Also - as Davionista from the days of Battletech 2nd Edition, it is still nice to see them on occasion act like a bullying feudal state rather than ‘the bestest good guys, that ever was’, on occasion.

That wasn't where the timing came from, at least in this case. I look for decent fights when it's practical(also, because even idiot commanders can usually try to avoid fights they're sure to lose), but on this the Feddies moved in pretty quickly once they put two and two together in canon, and the forts simply wouldn't have time to be built. The half-built forts did good things for the Taurians even so, because a lot of the pressure on the Feddies came from them - the fighters couldn't have done it solo. If you look at it, there's actually a lot of things that have happened based on build speeds in the turns. For example, that's why the Marians didn't get their event until 2374, because an AMS design takes two and a half years to build plus time to work up, get loaded, and travel.

The "Stop, she's already dead!" moment was actually a response to the natural problem of these fights, which is trying to figure out good reasons for fights to stop. I don't want every battle to be fought to annihilation(a few, but not all), but there has to be a reason for the side with the upper hand to not finish the job. That's honestly the aspect of my writing that I'm most worried about exhausting over time, but I do like it when I get some inspiration on that topic. I'd written the battle most of the way through without figuring out how to end it, and then that came to me as a neat wrapping-up of the established plot. I seem to have a pretty good instinct for leaving myself enough dangling plot hooks to write what needs writing, at least thus far.

Re Victor Meredith Susan Steiner-Davion, I tend to set the ethics of the state based on the ruler. The Davions get some good ones later on, but this is kind of a dark era for them. Paul's current reign isn't bad, but Reynard was kind of amoral, and Etien and his spawn are simply awful.
« Last Edit: 17 July 2018, 19:38:52 by Alsadius »

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #516 on: 17 July 2018, 19:52:11 »
The Lyran coup was moved up because of Angler giving Marsden her tacit support - the head of the navy is a powerful ally in a coup, and it'll make his position much more secure, which lets him move sooner.

It didn't affect much in gameplay terms - I'd probably have given you the same budget either way, despite the extra couple years to settle things. I don't want players to feel forced to dive into the poorly-documented history of the setting so that they can write metagame-aware fluff to maximize their budget. But it seemed like a meaningful change from canon, and one worth reflecting in the outcomes at least a little.

No, thats fine!  I was doing it for the fluff, and seeing changes/impacts/etc. is exactly the point of the whole thing.  Thank you so much, it made me smile. :)  I wasn't looking for the 'Marsden Budget' this turn.

Quote
I hadn't considered the possibility. Not cheap, certainly. Don't take this as an official ruling, but my first thought is that it would cost as much to move a yard to a new system as it'd cost to build a new one from scratch in a system with a discount(so $5B to move a level 1, $5+10=15B to move a level 2, etc.). Too much of the infrastructure is hard to move - the building happens in stations, which aren't easily KF-mobile, and the supporting factories planetside and work force can't just be dragged a couple hundred light years on a whim either.

Look on the bright side - your best yard complex is way back from the front lines, even if New Kyoto is a bit exposed.

No worries - it can cost whatever you say it does, or be practically unmovable if you prefer.  Ive just seen a couple of yards get raided, and I figured IC Id have to be considering the costs of relocating the primary New Kyoto yard vs. the cost of defending it.  At 30B, it would cost as much to move it as it would to just build another one at my main complex... albeit quicker.


Quote
The "Stop, she's already dead!" moment was actually a response to the natural problem of these fights, which is trying to figure out good reasons for fights to stop. I don't want every battle to be fought to annihilation(a few, but not all), but there has to be a reason for the side with the upper hand to not finish the job. That's honestly the aspect of my writing that I'm most worried about exhausting over time, but I do like it when I get some inspiration on that topic. I'd written the battle most of the way through without figuring out how to end it, and then that came to me as a neat wrapping-up of the established plot. I seem to have a pretty good instinct for leaving myself enough dangling plot hooks to write what needs writing, at least thus far.

Well, assuming both sides have taken at least SOME damage - and as each of us has at least 2 neighbors - Id think in most cases once someone is in retreat, the tendency would be for the victor to allow that retreat.  Chasing people stinks - even though we don't have rules for mines, or relative velocities (outside of high speed engagements, which rules are wonky and painfully oversimplified) but even so...   People you are chasing can throw things out the back that you run into.  Your building a velocity relative to them that they can use to make you hate life by firing missiles or other things 'downhill'.  And finally, we have other neighbors.  If youve won the day, is it REALLY worth risking your ships taking further advantage against a retreating, beaten foe (who by definition will Probably Not Be Back Soon), when your other neighbor is over there counting every ship you lose in THIS fight as a free win for them?  I like the writing on it a lot, but I'd not feel bad as a reader seeing 'We won and let them go rather than risk throwing good ships away on an already achieved objective'

Smegish

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #517 on: 17 July 2018, 21:13:25 »
Tue victorious admiral could also let the other side withdraw due to a lack of ammo/supplies on his side, god knows more than one of us has ships that are quite light on cargo space

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #518 on: 17 July 2018, 21:27:58 »
Tue victorious admiral could also let the other side withdraw due to a lack of ammo/supplies on his side, god knows more than one of us has ships that are quite light on cargo space

Yup, that's a pretty obvious choice - for example, if the Heimdaller I had won any fights before the refit, that would almost certainly have been the ending. But I'm doing ~3 fights per turn, and this may easily go for ~50 turns. I can't just use one or two explanations, I'll want quite a few.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #519 on: 17 July 2018, 21:55:55 »
Heimdaller was intentionally built with enough enough missiles to win one fight -very thoroughly-... and then go home.  While she never saw combat before the FFV refit, Im still more proud of her than anything Ive designed since.  I may revisit the concept of a ‘peacetime/low intensity/multirole ship with enough throwweight to stand in for a warship in a pinch’ again on a larger hull.

Maingunnery

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #520 on: 18 July 2018, 11:51:38 »
OOC, do you feel that I've been misusing them? It seemed reasonable enough to have the captain try to actually use his ship once it was stranded, instead of merely await potential repair while stuck in hostile space, but I have noticed that I've tended to beat up the escorts quite a bit thus far. In the case of Lurgatan, I was originally expecting to strand a Galahad instead, but I decided to be fair and roll for it, and the Phalanx was the victim of the drive failure instead. Lady Luck took you to the cleaners on that operation overall - the Capellan plan actually had so many gaping holes(mountains of unprotected JumpShips, launching an invasion with naval inferiority, etc.) that the commanding officer of the operation was named Admiral Oh Ver Luk in my notes, but they had a perfect luck roll to your near-minimal one, and it saved their asses.

The captain decisions are realistic enough, but....

Since the beginning, the FWL characters have been using it as an escort or fake ship, but it is actually a very high-speed raider/harasser. Such a structural trend would be eventually noticed by the naval top brass, which would force them to act. In this case keeping the class separate from the other ships, so there is less temptation and pressure for misuse. This is quite a serious action, if the class fails to perform even then, it will likely earned the quirk "Bad Reputation".


ps. Action Item: Positive for Jointly Owned Worlds
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

The Society:Fan XTRO & Field Manual
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marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #521 on: 18 July 2018, 11:55:11 »

The captain decisions are realistic enough, but....

Since the beginning, the FWL characters have been using it as an escort or fake ship, but it is actually a very high-speed raider/harasser. Such a structural trend would be eventually noticed by the naval top brass, which would force them to act. In this case keeping the class separate from the other ships, so there is less temptation and pressure for misuse. This is quite a serious action, if the class fails to perform even then, it will likely earned the quirk "Bad Reputation".


ps. Action Item: Positive for Jointly Owned Worlds

Im reminded of a historical tendency to see big guns and try to put battle-cruisers into the line of battle, a position for which they were not designed - if perhaps not so ill suited as some historians suggest...

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #522 on: 18 July 2018, 18:44:23 »
One of you has sent me a couple PMs discussing potential military operations in the event of hostilities against one of their neighbours. I haven't had a chance to follow through on these plans as of yet, because the realms haven't fought each other since I got the message, but I've filed them away for the future. If any of you wish to do the same, please let me know. Also, per a request I've gotten, I'll try in future to give you a heads-up if your realm is expecting to start a war in the next turn, so that you can plan operations accordingly.

---

The Rim Worlds Republic has gotten past the worst fears of its recent armaments crisis, and wishes to resume work on the Renaissance command-circuit project across their entire realm, without abandoning the necessary defensive measures that might make their fleet able to stand up to invasion. As such, the Vittoria-class destroyer production at Finmark will continue, but the Renaissance station network will be expanded from the Apollo-Finmark route to an Apollo-Timbuktu route instead. This requires an additional 10 stations and an additional 20 JumpShips to service the entire route. However, as this much of an investment is beyond what the RWR's stretched naval budget will allow, they have decided to make up the gap by removing the 12 JumpShips from colonial expansion duties(which were expected to be less economical in the face of heavy Terran colonial efforts) and move them to regular transportation instead.

BUDGET: $24B
Maintenance (@100%): $4.884B
2x Vittoria: $12.574B
4x small craft: $40m
10x Renaissance: $2.02B
8x JumpShip: $4B
Research: $482m
« Last Edit: 18 July 2018, 20:09:33 by Alsadius »

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #523 on: 19 July 2018, 08:27:39 »
In Battletech space operations Fighters are strongly limited by their fuel inefficiency.

Can small craft serve as mid-space refueling for aerospace fighters, similar to the way that modern military aircraft take on fuel from dedicated tankers?

In the alternate, one supposes bomb hard-points can carry fuel tanks, or that hypothetical 'generic' fighters could be designed to carry fuel loads sufficient for longer range operations.

If a fighter can in theory lug 2x30 Ton Barracuda Missiles, one supposes it could carry 1x30 Ton Barracuda and a 30 Ton Drop Tank, 1 x 50 Ton Killer Whale and a 10 Ton Drop Tank, or the like.

Failing all of the above (and I know that we discovered that it seems Small Craft don't have hard points), could small craft carry missiles in cargo space for the standoff strike role? 

My recollection is that Small Craft have way better fuel endurance than Aerospace Fighters. ((Checked this.  Looks like 1.84 Tons for a 1G Burn Day for a 200 Ton Battle Taxi.  So yeah.  Small Craft have operational mobility on par with warships and dropships, or near it))
« Last Edit: 19 July 2018, 10:01:37 by marcussmythe »

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #524 on: 19 July 2018, 19:26:54 »
TechManual explicitly states that fighter bomb hardpoints can take fuel drop tanks. It doesn't offer explicit rules for them, but that's not really a problem for us. Likewise, small craft can equip both fluid suction systems and cargo, so a "tanker" design should be possible.

Amusingly, while digging through for the rules, I also found that an anti-capital fighter weapon is actually canonical, though it's FCCW-era tech.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #525 on: 19 July 2018, 19:33:58 »
If Small Craft can serve the role of tankers, then lets do that at least for now for me, rather than worry about Small-Craft-Bombers - though I did design an amusing little 7/11 60 ton cargo no guns light armor ‘DeHaviland Mosquito’ style 200 ton small craft bomber.

If the Walkure’s small craft loadout is insufficient to the task,  could supplement with additional small craft from other ships.  If it needs a redesign to make the doctrine work, let me know, and Ill do a refit or change the next production run to carry more small craft.

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #526 on: 19 July 2018, 19:47:20 »
If the Walkure’s small craft loadout is insufficient to the task,  could supplement with additional small craft from other ships.  If it needs a redesign to make the doctrine work, let me know, and Ill do a refit or change the next production run to carry more small craft.

It's not binary - as with most things, it's diminishing returns. The Walkure has 24 SC for 720 fighters, a 30:1 ratio. If we say a SC can plausibly get 100 tons of cargo(haven't made one in a while, but it sounds about right), and they're all fit for tanker duties, that adds about 3 tons per fighter. For a typical fighter, that's a substantial increase in burn time, but not enough to give it nearly WarShip-level range(and your life support is comparatively pretty primitive as well, so you wouldn't want to). Realistically, you could probably double the burn time for a max-effort strike on a Walkure with heavy tanker support, and 24 SC is enough to arrange some sort of Black Buck-style monstrosity if there's a target you really want to scare the crap out of with a few fighters.

A tanker-heavy doctrine will probably want a higher ratio in future designs, but this is a brand-new approach. For that, the current ratio seems decent - if nothing else, I expect that you'll want to experiment for a bit before investing too heavily in space for non-combat craft.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #527 on: 19 July 2018, 19:52:52 »
Yeah.  Probably best to use it a few times, and try to solve problems with doctrine as well as with enginnering.

Lagrange

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #528 on: 19 July 2018, 21:14:53 »
For extremely long range ASF, you can create a smallcraft with thrust 1 that holds an ASF bay, 10 tons of fuel, and a few tons of cargo for supplies.  You get the efficient fuel expansion of a smallcraft and the maneuverability of an ASF when it's time for combat. 

The same effect can be achieved more easily (although at a greater cost in transport tonnage) via a Naval Tug while supporting a 3/5 thrust.

Vition2

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #529 on: 19 July 2018, 21:49:02 »
Amusingly, while digging through for the rules, I also found that an anti-capital fighter weapon is actually canonical, though it's FCCW-era tech.
I almost mentioned it about a month ago, but figured you had already seen it and decided to go with the barracuda-equivalent regardless.  There are a few things that cropped up in the FCCW-era that I consider to be should have been much earlier, sub-capital weapons and specialty munitions being the big standouts for me.

Starfox1701

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #530 on: 20 July 2018, 00:19:11 »
Most air forces use airliners for tankers so I would imagine something like a leopard would be perfect size. That way you can top off before and after the strike.

Smegish

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #531 on: 20 July 2018, 00:21:09 »
Draconis Combine Turn 2380

In response to the construction of the Crucis-class Battleships, the DCA has started an upgrade of the yards over New Samarkand, in order to put the Nagato project in effect in the near future. To help fund the yard upgrades, all six of the under-performing Kutai-class Frigates have been sold to the Taurian Concordant, to aid their defense against Davion aggression.

Code: [Select]
Year: 2380 Value in Millions
Money Available 111,000
Remaining from Last Turn
Available Shipyards

Luthien 3/2/2/1
New Samarkand 3/1
Midway 1

Repairs

Maintanence 170106 12% 20412.72


Refits

Construction Unit Price
Shipyards New Sam 3>4 40,000 40,000
Stations Onsen 0 451 0
Warships Atago 2 9,339 18,678
       Fubuki 0 7,241 0
     Minekaze 5 6,102 30510
       Trojan 1 4,031 4,031
Jumpships 0 500 0
Dropships 0 300 0
Fighters 360 5 1,800
Small Craft 200 10 2000
Research 1,568 1 1568
Loan
Total Spent 118999.72

Income Trojan Lease 2 1000 2000
Marian Loan 1 1000 1000
Kutai Sale 5000
Remaining 0


Future Income Trojan Loan 2000/Turn 1 Turns left
Yard Loan 1000/Turn 4 Turns left
Kutai Sale 5000/Turn 4 Turns left

Start Turn In Service Value BV
Warships Atago 7 65373 83558
       Fubuki 3 21723 57421
   Minekaze 4 24408 66478
         Kutai 0 0 15629
       Trojan 2 8062 15229
Stations Onsen 20 9020
Jumpships 30 15000
Dropships Small 32 9600

Fighters 2736 13680
Small Craft 324 3240
Total 170106

Maintanence 12% 20412.72

Fighter Complement Whole Fleet 996
DS Complement Whole Fleet 24

End Turn In Service
Warships Atago 9 84051
       Fubuki 3 21723
    Minekaze 9 54918
          Kutai 0 0
        Trojan 2 8062
Stations Onsen 20 9020
Jumpships 30 15000
Dropships Small 32 9600

Fighters 3096 15480
Small Craft 524 5240
Total 223094

Maintenance 12% 26771.28

Fleet Complement Fighters 2016
DropShips 24
Small Craft 288

Station Complement Fighters 720
Small Craft 240

Code: [Select]
Deployments

Steiner Front Atago-class - Atago, Chokai, Aoba
Minekaze-class – Minekaze, Yukikaze, Yayoi
Trojan-class - Sinister (By some quirk of fate the entire crew is left handed)

Davion Front Atago-class - Takao, Furutaka, Myoko
Minekaze-class – Hayate, Hakaze, Mikazuki
Trojan-class - Insidious

Terran Front Atago-class - Kashima, Maya, Nachi
Minekaze-class – Shikinami, Satsuki, Okikaze
Trojan-class - Iga

Reserve Fubuki-class - Fubuki, Ibuki, Yudachi

Each Atago is paired with a Minekaze, with any incursion beyond a single vessel bringing the rest of the 6-ship squadron on its front into action
Fubukis are deployed at Luthien, New Samarkand and Benjamin, can also be called in to respond to attacks if needed.
« Last Edit: 20 July 2018, 01:58:12 by Smegish »

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #532 on: 20 July 2018, 05:25:42 »
Taurian Concordat:
BUDGET: $12B
Repairs: $3B
Kutai payments $5B
Maintenance(@50% for SC/DS, @75% for everything else): $3.942B
Research: $58m

I hate having to cut maintenance that badly, but the purchase was the only way to get a decent fleet, and if repair costs can be avoided for a turn or two they may even be able to build their forts and/or light units back up.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #533 on: 20 July 2018, 08:27:36 »
Most air forces use airliners for tankers so I would imagine something like a leopard would be perfect size. That way you can top off before and after the strike.

That makes sense for a land (here, planet) based force.  Naval forces IRL lack that capability, and dropships would have to land, refuel, and re-launch the fighters - placing themselves in no different a position than simply moving carriers close to the enemy force, and having to juggle a fighter strike through an even more limited number of doors.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #534 on: 20 July 2018, 08:30:09 »
Taurian Concordat:
BUDGET: $12B
Repairs: $3B
Kutai payments $5B
Maintenance(@50% for SC/DS, @75% for everything else): $3.942B
Research: $58m

I hate having to cut maintenance that badly, but the purchase was the only way to get a decent fleet, and if repair costs can be avoided for a turn or two they may even be able to build their forts and/or light units back up.

Painful, yes, but it gives them a naval force that they could not have had otherwise, a handy thing given a vastly more powerful, and ever so near, neighbor.

Alsadius

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  • Posts: 926
Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #535 on: 20 July 2018, 09:55:49 »
That makes sense for a land (here, planet) based force.  Naval forces IRL lack that capability, and dropships would have to land, refuel, and re-launch the fighters - placing themselves in no different a position than simply moving carriers close to the enemy force, and having to juggle a fighter strike through an even more limited number of doors.

Why would fighters need to land in DropShips if they don't need to land in small craft to refuel? Refueling probes should be usable by DS if SC can use them.

Painful, yes, but it gives them a naval force that they could not have had otherwise, a handy thing given a vastly more powerful, and ever so near, neighbor.

For sure. Better to have a navy and not be able to make good use of it than to not have a navy at all.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #536 on: 20 July 2018, 10:04:03 »
Why would fighters need to land in DropShips if they don't need to land in small craft to refuel? Refueling probes should be usable by DS if SC can use them.

For sure. Better to have a navy and not be able to make good use of it than to not have a navy at all.

Eh, just figured they would, cause droppers have doors and act like warships in most ways?

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #537 on: 20 July 2018, 10:18:57 »
Eh, just figured they would, cause droppers have doors and act like warships in most ways?

I mean, they certainly can do it that way, but they could also install refueling probes like a small craft. There's some element of "Don't poke too many holes in your ship's armour if you want to use it for combat later on", but I'd imagine that a tanker DS isn't going to be the one carrying all the Killer Whale tubes, so that should probably be okay.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #538 on: 20 July 2018, 10:21:38 »
Fair cop.  Well, Ive got small craft, so thats what Ill use for now.  Might look at collars on future designs, depending on any number of things.

Jester Motley

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #539 on: 20 July 2018, 21:54:03 »
CC Turn 4:

Budget: $89,000M
Surplus: $4,828M
Total Turn 4 budget: $93,828M
---
Total Maintenance: $18,496M
Fighters @200%
All others @100%
Research: $100M
---Building:
1450x Fighters
4x Wrath
6x BoShots
2x Qinru Zhe

Losses:
71x Fighters
1x Light DS

End of Turn 4 totals:
Chongzhi: 27
Qinru Zhe: 5
Quzhujian: 4
BoBeer: 1
Wrath: 9
BoShots: 11
-
Fighters: 4119 (Fleet: 3518, 601 Local/Ground based/Training)
Small Craft: 1267 (Fleet: 1126, 141 Local/Ground based/Training)*  (Doctrine will be reducing the # military SC at recharge stations, and allowing Commercial services to utilizes the bays)
Light DS: 87
Jump Ships: 3

--
Fluff-
Fleet Flash com-111512535982:
With great ceremony and celebration, today the Chancellor Franco Martel Liao announced a new military honor, The Chancellor's Colors.  Reaching back into the great and glorious history of our ancestors, and bringing forth a tradition that stretches 1000s of years, Chancellor Liao has announced that, just as the Han dynasty restricted the employ of gold on a uniform to themselves and thier trusted advisors, so too will only those awarded "The Chancellor's Colors" be allowed to employ the color and metal Gold in their uniform.

In light of the recent victories and brilliant strategy of the Venerable Admiral Oh Ver Luk, Chancellor Liao has awarded the Venerable Admiral Luk the first to bear the Chancellor's Colors.  Chancellor Liao personally presented gold threaded piping, crest, and hat-rim in a heartfelt ceremony of congratulations.

Chancellor Liao also awarded the Colors to the Capellan Hussars for going beyond all expectations in ripping multiple worlds from the poisonous grasp of the so called Free Worlds League.  Liao declared that from this day forward, the Hussars would form the honor guard of the capital, and his personal bodyguards.  The Chancellor gifted each surviving member with a gold silk cravat, and had gold crests emblazed on the Hussar's vehicles.

Would you like to know more?
---

Fleet Intelligence announced today that they have found no evidence supporting the widespread rumor that the fleets newest carrier Bringer of Vodka Shots is haunted.  As with each of her sister ships, full sweeps and examinations were done, a complete flush of her computer systems, and a re-initialization was done, prior to accepting her for Builder's trials, but NBoI claims they are still flooded with complaints and comments about some ghostly voice in the system.

We here at the Naval Bureau of Publishing have sent our on investigation crew, and one of our crew say they themselves heard a voice in the head telling them to wash behind their ears, and to make sure they floss their teeth.  Sadly the voice wasn't recorded, and no further attempts to record or find the voice have been successful.  As this was prior to the re-initialization, we at the Naval Bureau of Publishing believe the NBoI's assertion that early software bugs are the cause and upgrading things is the fix.

However, If you, or someone you know, has more information, please send a fleet message to:
Sing Hanson, NBoP@NBoP

Would you like to know more?
---
 

 

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