Author Topic: Taurian Concordat-- fleeing during the reunification war (Read 21970 times)

Korzon77 · « **on:** 29 January 2011, 22:12:31 »

The reunification war lasted about 21 years before the Taurian's surrendered-- but surely long before the end the writing was on the wall-- and the black beckoned to them. Now, however big the Star league was, how ever many ships it had, the further you go, you vastly increase the amount of area you have to search-- Six months voyage, presuming 3 jumps per month (to account for various problmes), gives you 540 light years-- a vast number of stars and worlds, especially if you're trying to avoid being found.

So presuming this fall back position is adopted say in 2576, how impressive a "mini-exodus" could the Taruians have made?

I'm presuming three things here--
1. that whatever the government said, it was apparenet that the only way they could win long term was for the SL to decide it wasn't worth it.
2. The in the presumption of a loss, there was every possiblity, especially after the various atrocities conducted by SL and allied soldiers that the periphery might be effectively genocided, making the only way to maintain continuity to escape beyond the reach of the SL.
3. that any such move would desire to go far enough away that no reasonable expansion of the SL in any near or medium term time period could catch up with them, and if they were found, the supply line would make effective conquest impossible.

Jaim Magnus · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 January 2011, 22:16:19 »

Interesting concept.

As most people would have been needed for the war, not to mention ships, you have to send very limited numbers of people. I'm thinking just enough to colonize one planet.

On the plus side, they could be a well developed planet, having taken all the know how of 2576 with them.

Korzon77 · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 January 2011, 22:25:43 »

Quote from: Jaim Magnus on 29 January 2011, 22:16:19

Interesting concept.

As most people would have been needed for the war, not to mention ships, you have to send very limited numbers of people. I'm thinking just enough to colonize one planet.

On the plus side, they could be a well developed planet, having taken all the know how of 2576 with them.

Well that's the inersting question-- we don't know the *exact* numbers of ships anyone had-- but they certainly seemed to be a lot--far more than 3025, that's for certain and we know that even after the Amaris conflict, the warriors of Kerensky had enough to pull off an Exodus...

So it seems likely that there were ALOT of ships-- it might not be imopssible to assume they could cut loose 100 or so jumpships, especially if the TC government decided that the refugees were the only ones likely to survive and thus intended to use the Concordat as a covering and blocking force.

Warclaw · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 January 2011, 23:03:52 »

Quote from: Korzon77 on 29 January 2011, 22:25:43

Well that's the inersting question-- we don't know the *exact* numbers of ships anyone had-- but they certainly seemed to be a lot--far more than 3025, that's for certain and we know that even after the Amaris conflict, the warriors of Kerensky had enough to pull off an Exodus...

So it seems likely that there were ALOT of ships-- it might not be imopssible to assume they could cut loose 100 or so jumpships, especially if the TC government decided that the refugees were the only ones likely to survive and thus intended to use the Concordat as a covering and blocking force.

Especially if the majority of the jumpship runs were intended to be one-way. While it might be a bit riskier, that number of Jumpships could, (and probably WOULD) include ships originally slated to be mothballed or scrapped as obsolete.

I might expect a number of more modern ships around a core-fleet of hastily refurbished Aquilla class Jumpships. The Aquillas would only be intended to make the trip one-way, and be broken up for raw materials/parts once the colonists arrived at their destination....Or gutted and used as the basis for orbital/belt mining stations.

Medron Pryde · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 January 2011, 02:51:10 »

I think in the dark of the War of Terran Aggression (tm), 100 jump capable ships would be too much.

But I like the idea. It makes a lot of sense that one or more of the Periphery realms would have spawned off an exodus to get further away from Terra. And it makes further sense that they would have burned the data saying they were made or where they were going.

And having the full pre-Star League technology (which is better than 3025 tech) as a basis would give them a severely good place to start from. :)

Korzon77 · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 January 2011, 15:06:15 »

I don't know-- the first periphery book does mention naval battles involving close to 100 Taurian warships-- so it's likely that the entire fleet strength was at least 100 warships, which indicates they might have had a lot of civilian jumpships. Of course, the handbook has a number of issues when it gets to numbers, so take that as you might...

Hawkeye Jim · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 January 2011, 18:04:52 »

I should think that the number of availiable jumpships decreased sharply right after the Exodus. Kerensky must have taken a good size chunk out of the supply when he left. In addition, shipyards were damaged or destroyed during the insuing conflicts.

Jaim Magnus · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 January 2011, 18:10:09 »

We're talking towards the end of the unification war here, not the war against the usurper. Approx. 250 years difference.

Medron Pryde · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 January 2011, 21:25:04 »

Yeah, I just have a feeling that in a war for survival where big battles are 100 ships, sending 100 ships out is not going to happen.

Maybe 20 or 50, but 100 just feels high to me...

*shrugs*

Moonsword · « **Reply #9 on:** 31 January 2011, 08:30:48 »

Just to note, there's a good chance some of those ships are Aquilla-type units, not true military vessels.

Dirk Bastion · « **Reply #10 on:** 31 January 2011, 15:27:15 »

So, I keep thinking they might settle up around or behind the Taurus Dark Cloud (supposedly, there's an open star cluster behind it), but I suck so much at astronomy that I'm not sure just how far away that thing even is. My educated guess is something like 1200 light years give or take.
Can anybody shed some light on this? Google isn't helping.

Moonsword · « **Reply #11 on:** 31 January 2011, 15:29:08 »

BattleTech's astrography is so screwed up the answer is effectively "Mu".

Dirk Bastion · « **Reply #12 on:** 31 January 2011, 15:37:16 »

That's disconcerting.
I guess I'll go with "it's 3 times as far removed as the Hyades" and see how it works.

Moonsword · « **Reply #13 on:** 31 January 2011, 15:39:32 »

The problem is that the astrography is a flat plane rather than a 3-dimensional sphere and some of the star positions relative to each other (or Terra) are wrong.

Do what you need to do. If it's vaguely correct, I doubt anyone's going to care.

Dirk Bastion · « **Reply #14 on:** 31 January 2011, 16:01:58 »

Well, here we go then, an idea what it could look like. I'd assume it would be centered around the cluster again, just like the original Concordat is.

Medron Pryde · « **Reply #15 on:** 31 January 2011, 20:32:28 »

That is far enough out that it might be a useful colony trip. :)

Korzon77 · « **Reply #16 on:** 31 January 2011, 20:56:48 »

Well the assumption is that if this happens, the Taurians are trying to get so far away that the SL *can't* follow them-- or at least not in any way that could allow them to project power meaninguflly.

Korzon77 · « **Reply #17 on:** 01 February 2011, 00:12:06 »

Quote from: Moonsword on 31 January 2011, 08:30:48

Just to note, there's a good chance some of those ships are Aquilla-type units, not true military vessels.

True, but teh pre-1st succession war and post succession war ship availability is like night and day-- even if you presume they're using civilian jumpships 100 might not be such a huge reach, especially if at that time they've decided the TC is going down anyway, and this is the hail mary.
unfortunately, jumship availability is all over the place in the printed word, though we do know that the TC was building the wagon wheels with an eye towards exporting them to other periphery powers-- so that implies that they had a fair amount of production capability to even be *considering* that.

Moonsword · « **Reply #18 on:** 01 February 2011, 08:02:27 »

I'm not arguing that, just making sure that people aren't assuming you're looking at the kind of well-armed craft that the word "WarShip" brings to mind. The Aquilla's main benefit in many circumstances would be the cargo bay. It may be effectively a WarShip but in terms of armament, even the stripped down Carrack laughs at it.

Medron Pryde · « **Reply #19 on:** 01 February 2011, 09:10:47 »

In this case I agree with Moonsword. *shudders* ;)

The bulk of ships sent on this would be really old stuff. Aquilla's (some upgunned like the Magistracy ships), other old ships like the Winchester from the first generation of Taurian WarShips that were probably outgunned by far on the Davion and Star League fronts, and stuff like that. Mostly armed transports and the like along with ships that were either supposed to be at the breakers or HAD been at the breakers. Mothballed ships brought back online just for this. There would probably be one or two, perhaps as much as a squadron, of modern Taurian WarShips, to protect the convoy. The issue is something like that would be hard to hide from the new Terran Overlord Government, so they would have to be ships that the invaders "KNEW" they destroyed. So they might be heavily damaged, but with working KF drives.

In short, all of the ships would have to be ones that the Star League wouldn't go all "hey there, where are these 50+ ships on your ledgers?" about. ;) They would probably have at least one or two GOOD ships though. If they've already realized they can't win, they would find a way to make two good ships disappear. Short of that realization though, It's going to be really hard to make them think about sending 50+ ships off the line. Because there are a lot of battles where 50+ ships could have turned the tide easily. Of course, assuming these are old ships from the 2300s or so, they'd probably only last that ONE battle. ;)

It would actually be very appropriate in a lot of ways if the Aquillas that first colonized Taurus would be part of the fleet that left, revitalized and ready to fly again. And of course, the command ship of the convoy would HAVE to be named Galactica. [rockon]

jeyar · « **Reply #20 on:** 01 February 2011, 09:18:18 »

The TC did have some flee and start at least one nation in faction: the Lothan League.

Korzon77 · « **Reply #21 on:** 01 February 2011, 17:48:32 »

Yeah-- I agree. The thing is, if you're running, then if you end up in a battle, you've lost.

BUT...this is betch-- there are no "jump egress tracker" systems, so if your ships jump the enemy kjnows that they are....

Somewhere in a 30LY radius.

More importantly, with jump sails, the fleet can jump just about anywhere they can find enough light to recharge unless they want to risk fusion charging-- so they cam ump high over the ecliptic, at around where pluto would be and wait a LONG time to recharge...then jump another, 30 light years.

If you calculate the amount of space... well ten jumps give syou a sphere with 150LY radius...which means that our tracking fleet has to find you in...

14137166.94115 Cubic light years.

So really th4e main reason for a warship wouldn't be so much escort, at least not beyond the first few jumps, but more likely the superior C&C capabilities, and systems designed to function without support-- a wagon wheel would actually be great here, given it's larger grav decks.

jeyar · « **Reply #22 on:** 01 February 2011, 21:06:17 »

We're getting close to some of those old Taurian fan-fictions, but with the added detail of the colonists being "differently abled" due to war wounds, but not wanted on the front lines.

If you think about it, there had to be millions or maybe billions of Taurians that could have qualified.

Korzon77 · « **Reply #23 on:** 01 February 2011, 21:37:44 »

Tio be honest, I'm going to be doing one of those fan settings-- because it really, honestly makes more sense than the whole SLDF taking off and leaving. The periphery has *always* seen "heading out beyond" as a way to fix problems. They weren't interested in teh star league-- which is why they were attacked. Oh, sure htey're attached to their homes, but they're descended from people who left *their* homes to head out to new worlds...so why not? Jump for a year and there are thousands-- *tens of thousands* of worlds to chose from. Jump two years, or five years, and and it gets even better-- just knock the dust from your sandels and go!