Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.

[wantec]

Yes and no.

From the Wolf Clan Sourcebook:
Alpha Galaxy members wear a strip of synthetic Wolf fur on the left shoulder of the uniform/dress cape just for being posted to Alpha. There's also a ritual for real wolf fur instead of synthetic. Called the "Wolf Rite", 5 candidates are chosen and dropped off mid-winter into the snowy forests of Strana Mechty wearing only briefs and given a hunting knife. The team of 5 must steal a fresh kill from a pack of wolves and carry it back to base camp (100km). The Clan watches the broadcast of the team. Those who die are honored by having their names painted onto the hull of the warship Dire Wolf. Those who are successful can use real wolf fur instead of synthetic and earn the title of KinWolf. As of WCSB, only 53 active warriors have the title.

Gamma Galaxy warriors each receive the patch of a famous SLDF unit. They are to learn the history of that unit as well as that of their immediate superior as well as that of the galaxy commander.

Delta have a ritual called the Bloodstart. This occurs for a warrior's first confirmed kill. If time & battlefield conditions allow, the warrior is taken to the place where the enemy warrior was killed. A small portion of blood is wiped across the warrior's brow, then the warrior is expected to bury his fallen foe. Afterwards the warrior is expected to make restitution to the fallen warrior's next of kin (kind of unusual in Clan situations).

Field Manual Crusader Clans say Vlad tossed aside all the Galaxy-specific traditions since they clan was been recreated.

One extra bit of followup I missed b/c it's hidden under the uniforms category in FMCC. For the Crusader Wolves, the honor of wearing real wolf fur was changed to bloodnamed warriors designated as worthy by the Khan or saKhan. Such warriors had to stalk and kill a Strana Mechty Wolf single-handedly using only the weapons they could fashion themselves in the wild. I'm not sure how this was updated after the Wars of Reaving.

[Metallgewitter]

I would guess the Wolves took example of the Strana Mechty wolf with them. Like the Nova Cats and Ghost Bears took examples of their totem animals to their OZ's. Though wherte they release them is anyone's guess.

[SteveRestless]

It continues to gall me that the Horses are bootlegging the Dire Wolf and Timber Wolf, that they have just begun producing them out of factories that should have (per FM3145) been stripped of their mech-specific tooling, or in the case of the dire wolf, I think it's a factory that may not have existed prior to this. This is not the clan way, there was no trial for the right to produce these designs, they are engaged in the dezgra behavior of simply churning out copies of a machine they desired. Really seems like the Wolves ought to be dispatching someone to issue a trial of some sort (Grievance? Possession?) over the design rights violation.

[tassa_kay]

This is not the clan way, there was no trial for the right to produce these designs, they are engaged in the dezgra behavior of simply churning out copies of a machine they desired. Really seems like the Wolves ought to be dispatching someone to issue a trial of some sort (Grievance? Possession?) over the design rights violation.

The Clan way is as much about "if you're strong enough to take it, it's yours until someone takes it (back) from you" and "if you aren't strong enough to hold what you have, you don't deserve to have it" as it is about some nebulous design rights concept that we've precious little of in canon. If it was dezgra, why would the Wolves bother stripping the factories down in the first place when they could just say "okay, now initiate a Trial for the right to produce these designs"? If the Wolves didn't want someone swooping in and retooling the factories, they should've destroyed them completely. I'd say that by abandoning the factory, they abandoned their rights to whatever they produced.

[ANS Kamas P81]

I'd say that by abandoning the factory, they abandoned their rights to whatever they produced.

That sounds pretty Clanlike to me; the Wolves didn't want it anymore and left it behind.  It's up to whoever the last man standing is to take it over.

[GuyIncognito]

The Clans (allegedly) abhor waste, so the fact that the Hell's Horses picked up and recycled trash the Wolves threw on the side of the road elevates the former over the latter really.

[Colt Ward]

. . . some nebulous design rights concept that we've precious little of in canon.

It is all over the place and why the 3050 mechs were given specific producers in 3050U, why we hear Clan X trialed Clan Y to produce the design.  As he mentioned, the Dire Wolf itself has a complicated initial story.

BUT . . . I will go with your abandon theory as well . . . otherwise the Savage Wolf Falcon vs Fox story would not have come about as much.

[Church14]

It continues to gall me that the Horses are bootlegging the Dire Wolf and Timber Wolf, that they have just begun producing them out of factories that should have (per FM3145) been stripped of their mech-specific tooling, or in the case of the dire wolf, I think it's a factory that may not have existed prior to this. This is not the clan way, there was no trial for the right to produce these designs, they are engaged in the dezgra behavior of simply churning out copies of a machine they desired. Really seems like the Wolves ought to be dispatching someone to issue a trial of some sort (Grievance? Possession?) over the design rights violation.

So what’s your take on all the inner sphere designs wolves produced without any trials to acquire rights to produce them? Or your take on when Foxes sued wolves over design elements when the Amarok ripped off the hammerhead? Or the wolves using Capellan stealth armor on the alpha wolf? Or the wolves using the horses’ interface cockpit for the ryoken III?

Horses took the world. Horses managed to put together the lines and produce the Timber Wolf. Out of universe, does it feel weird that Horses make it? Sure. But in universe they did what it took to get it. Sometimes that means bloody conquest, sometimes it’s being opportunistic

[tassa_kay]

Horses took the world. Horses managed to put together the lines and produce the Timber Wolf. Out of universe, does it feel weird that Horses make it? Sure. But in universe they did what it took to get it. Sometimes that means bloody conquest, sometimes it’s being opportunistic

In a way, it's no different than what the Clans did in the Homeworlds during the Wars of Possession when they were seizing former Jaguar holdings. The holdings were abandoned (albeit because of Annihilation and not because they decided on a change of address), and another Clan came in to take possession of them. The Jaguars weren't strong enough to hold onto their things, and the Wolves weren't strong enough to hold onto theirs. Simple.

I also think it ignores that these aren't the Clans of 3050, either. We've had a century of drastic cultural evolution sweeping amongst the Clans, to the point where it's fair to ask "What even is dezgra anymore?" And the answer is the same as it's always been: dezgra is whatever the accusing side can say it is and can make it stick. If the Wolves want to take umbrage to it, they certainly can, but I think they have quite enough on their plate as it is.

[rebs]

If abandoned production lines were rebuilt by a new owner, then clearly whoever rebuilt them earned the right to produce them. 

...This newest discussion is a pretty interesting way to bump a thread!

[Wrangler]

Clans hate waste.  It would be wasteful to destroy said factories, it's not the way of the Clans.   They would remove key important and vital components however.

[Metallgewitter]

I give you another example: after the SLDF had wiped out the Jaguars other Clans picked Huntress clean. for example the Scorpions took over the production facilities on Abysmal and began producing new variants of certain Mechs.
Or another example: the Foxes began producing new versions of the Timber Wolf but under a new name: Mad Cat MK2 and Mad Cat MK 3

On another note:

The Dragoons "abducted" a sibko which was made out of Alaric's genes and they even planned to send some those to the other Clans (excuding the Jaguars and Falcons) while using the rest as candiates (maybe even as breeding material?)
That can't be according to Clan rules right? Would the other Clans accept that "gift"? Or would they be duty bound to send those children back? The Horses will most likely not because they are enemies with the Wolves and would love to spite them. The rest though.. I can see the Foxes and Ravens extract a hefty price for it and the Bears are...unpredictable

And could they perhaps trace the genes back? And find out WHO actually are the genefather and gene mother of Alaric?

[tassa_kay]

I give you another example: after the SLDF had wiped out the Jaguars other Clans picked Huntress clean. for example the Scorpions took over the production facilities on Abysmal and began producing new variants of certain Mechs.

I mentioned that already. 

Or another example: the Foxes began producing new versions of the Timber Wolf but under a new name: Mad Cat MK2 and Mad Cat MK 3

Not a valid example; those are new designs that they created themselves from the ground up, not variants of the Timber Wolf.

The Dragoons "abducted" a sibko which was made out of Alaric's genes and they even planned to send some those to the other Clans (excuding the Jaguars and Falcons) while using the rest as candiates (maybe even as breeding material?)
That can't be according to Clan rules right?

If the sibko wasn't taken in a Trial of Possession, then no. (I have no idea because I haven't/won't read that book, but I assume they weren't.)

Would the other Clans accept that "gift"? Or would they be duty bound to send those children back?

I wouldn't say they'd be "duty bound" to send them back... and why did the book say they were sending some to the other Clans at all?

And could they perhaps trace the genes back? And find out WHO actually are the genefather and gene mother of Alaric?

Katherine's, at least, because she did test into the warrior caste, so it's likely her DNA is on file (with the Wolves). But unlike the pre-WoR days, the Council of Six specifically did not have Blood Chapels/a Master Repository, so I doubt the other Clans have access to those records.

[Metallgewitter]

If the sibko wasn't taken in a Trial of Possession, then no. (I have no idea because I haven't/won't read that book, but I assume they weren't.)

I wouldn't say they'd be "duty bound" to send them back... and why did the book say they were sending some to the other Clans at all?

The sibko was part of the raid on Gienah. But as you said not part of a trial of possession as the Dragoons never declared a trial or answered to Othar's trial request. It was basically a smash and grab though the sibko was only part of it (the other parts were smashing the garrison and either kill or capture Othar)

Kincaid's reason was that he has the progeny of Alaric's genes and he now has spread it to the stars basically forcing Alaric to fight against his own children at one point. He was also referring to the giftake of said children when he told Marotta Kerensky about this. So maybe if said Clans take those children and raise them to worthy warriors they might have the option to take a giftake from them (from what I understand is that warriors give a gifttake the day they enter the warrior caste) 

[tassa_kay]

Kincaid's reason was that he has the progeny of Alaric's genes and he now has spread it to the stars basically forcing Alaric to fight against his own children at one point.

I'm sorry, but this sounds like cringe fanfic, LOL. Is this supposed to be some sort of flex? If the sibko kiddies end up doing well and Alaric finds out they were bred from his DNA, he can just chalk it up to his "superior genetics", and if they don't, then it means nothing. Either way, the whole thing sounds incredibly stupid.

He was also referring to the giftake of said children when he told Marotta Kerensky about this. So maybe if said Clans take those children and raise them to worthy warriors they might have the option to take a giftake from them (from what I understand is that warriors give a gifttake the day they enter the warrior caste)

I guess that's no different than the Clans who have taken in freebirths and added them to their genetic libraries (RasDom and Scorpion Empire especially come to mind here), though I'd imagine Alaric could slap a Clan that uses those sibbies or his DNA (remember, you can't just take warriors from a Clan even through a Trial and use their DNA; you have to win the breeding rights separately) with a Trial of Grievance (or worse, since he's the ilKhan-for-Life) since they did not win those breeding rights in a Trial.

[Metallgewitter]

I'm sorry, but this sounds like cringe fanfic, LOL. Is this supposed to be some sort of flex? If the sibko kiddies end up doing well and Alaric finds out they were bred from his DNA, he can just chalk it up to his "superior genetics", and if they don't, then it means nothing. Either way, the whole thing sounds incredibly stupid.

I guess that's no different than the Clans who have taken in freebirths and added them to their genetic libraries (RasDom and Scorpion Empire especially come to mind here), though I'd imagine Alaric could slap a Clan that uses those sibbies or his DNA (remember, you can't just take warriors from a Clan even through a Trial and use their DNA; you have to win the breeding rights separately) with a Trial of Grievance (or worse, since he's the ilKhan-for-Life) since they did not win those breeding rights in a Trial.

I am not sure if Alaric will simply "chalk it up". After all from what I understand is that the genes of "superior" warriors are something Clans fight huge trials over. Heck the Wolf Clan never lost a trial in regards to the Kerensky samples (loosing a warrior with a Kerensky bloodname yes but not the rights to the use of said genes). So if now his genes have been spread by MERCENARIES I could see that as a slap in the face (like "What? You can't even defend your own "children"? Sucker!") Of course the question is if said gifts ever arrive at the intended recipients. Otherwise it will simply be swept under the rug.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

Katherine made it into the warrior caste ?

Must have missed something lol, but after all I used to be a strictly Falcon only observer

[Church14]

I'm sorry, but this sounds like cringe fanfic, LOL. Is this supposed to be some sort of flex? If the sibko kiddies end up doing well and Alaric finds out they were bred from his DNA, he can just chalk it up to his "superior genetics", and if they don't, then it means nothing. Either way, the whole thing sounds incredibly stupid.

I guess that's no different than the Clans who have taken in freebirths and added them to their genetic libraries (RasDom and Scorpion Empire especially come to mind here), though I'd imagine Alaric could slap a Clan that uses those sibbies or his DNA (remember, you can't just take warriors from a Clan even through a Trial and use their DNA; you have to win the breeding rights separately) with a Trial of Grievance (or worse, since he's the ilKhan-for-Life) since they did not win those breeding rights in a Trial.

Hack does talk about how Alaric may end up fighting his own descendents. Hack kept most, then sent some to bears, horses, foxes, and would try to reach ravens. He dismissed Alaric’s pet clans. The bulk of the sibko will be raised as Wolf Dragoons, taught who their father is, what sort of garbage, dishonorable weasel he is. They might become soldiers who fight the ilClan or not.

My impression of the real goal was from a different line. Alaric, by virtue of becoming the ilKhan, can name his successor. Hack robbed the wolves of Alaric’s descendants. He delayed Alaric being able to name one of his “children” as a successor for another 10 years. It’s petty and personal in a way only clans would get.

[Metallgewitter]

Katherine made it into the warrior caste ?

Must have missed something lol, but after all I used to be a strictly Falcon only observer

Yup she made it into the warrior caste and she did so by obliterating a Victor Battlemech completly ignoring the rules of her trial of position

[wantec]

Yup she made it into the warrior caste and she did so by obliterating a Victor Battlemech completly ignoring the rules of her trial of position

Not true. She ignored the normal rules of the Trial of Position. The Victor was not scheduled as her first opponent, but it was one of her 3 opponents. She took the unconventional route of targeting one of her other targets, got the kill, and that was enough for her & what she wanted/needed.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Yup she made it into the warrior caste and she did so by obliterating a Victor Battlemech

<I hates my brother!!!>  I remember that on-the-nose bad writing...

[Metallgewitter]

<I hates my brother!!!>  I remember that on-the-nose bad writing...

Would have been more funny if that had been her brother's Mech. But that Mech was lost when the Black Heart Rose unit was destroyed on Niops

[Spirit Cat Refugee]

Question about Alaric Ward. In the Dark Age novels it was clear he was a fake Clanner with only Victor and Katherine's genes right? I'm rereading Masters of War and Bonfire of Worlds to find the evidence. I seem to recall the Loremaster at the end of Bonfire being aware and ready to spring that news on the Clan when Alaric stepped in the wrong direction.

But fast forward to the last few years, Alaric was revealed to have Vlad's genes as well, and that Loremaster was never heard about again. This was just retcon/not paying attention to former stories ,right?

[Hellraiser]

No idea on that, I'd heard he was Vic & Katie & only Vlad by Record Alteration, etc, etc, so they wouldn't show it being Vic & having no clanner in him.

I actually don't even know how he is a "Ward" though since Katie isn't a Ward & its known that Katie is the Gene mother?

If anything the records would need to show Vlad as the Gene-Mother.

But I'm not up on my Republic era reading so not sure what sort of DNA soup they are claiming these days.

[Metallgewitter]

According to Living Legends Alaric Ward is a mix out of Vlad Ward and Katherine's genes. But Katherine was used as the gene mother so how he was even eligable for a bloodname is beyond me. Of course we don't know who filled in the records so it will probably never come out (unless they can trace it down from the 19 children the Dragoons abducted from Gienah). Also who knows if they also infused some of Victor's gene as well.

Also didn't realize it but Alaric is named for the barbarian king who destroyed the Western Roman Empire. Kind of fitting that he destroys the Republic which is modelled after the Roman Republic. And if that is what the writers go by we will get a very long time of war until a new Empire will form.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

I always assumed he was a "proper" Clanner, especially having his Bloodname, but then I found out his mother was Katherine, and I thought that she and Vlad "procreated"

I was never really up to speed on Republic, Dark Age novels at the time, outside Jade Falcon

But will make interesting fiction if this claim/issue keeps getting brought up in universe about legitimacy to rule. Are the Horses aware of this ? If not it will make them even more Hellish mad 

[Metallgewitter]

Alaric is Ilkhan now. The question is who actually will dare to speak against him except the Horses? As long as he succeeds no one will dare. Of course pissing off every possible ally isn't exactly a way for a long and healthy career. Imagine if the Bears find out they tore their realm apart because some "mixbred" didn't accept their allegiance and demanded a second referendum?

[Church14]

He publicly declared his claim to the Lyra throne, didn’t he? So KSD as a genetic source would be known.

But the VSD side would be hidden. I imagine at least one of the clans that gets an Alaric Junior will test him. Then it’s a matter if the writing team wants to use that for some drama. 

[Colt Ward]

But fast forward to the last few years, Alaric was revealed to have Vlad's genes as well, and that Loremaster was never heard about again. This was just retcon/not paying attention to former stories ,right?

The ONLY bit in fiction where this keys in is b/c his codex triggers Vlad's message heading to Terra.

Hellraiser's bit is one of the confusing things in Legends that is handwaved away to be simplistic- Katherine is called his mother (not a Clan term) because she was a female donor, but not the 'maternal' donor which is the Clan terminology.

Also didn't realize it but Alaric is named for the barbarian king who destroyed the Western Roman Empire. Kind of fitting that he destroys the Republic which is modelled after the Roman Republic. And if that is what the writers go by we will get a very long time of war until a new Empire will form.

Eh, the foreshadowing with Alaric taking down the Roman "Republic" was never really concealed.

His objectives/intention has also never been hidden, which is also why the Arthurian and Alfred-esque names of Mechs that were put out and later turned into . . . eh, Storm Wolf, Alpha Wolf, Amarok, whatever . . . make more sense for the symbolism.

[Hellraiser]

Hellraiser's bit is one of the confusing things in Legends that is handwaved away to be simplistic- Katherine is called his mother (not a Clan term) because she was a female donor, but not the 'maternal' donor which is the Clan terminology.

I kind of assumed it had to be reversed on the records, just thought it was odd the way they said "Gene-Mother"
Swapping parent chromosome donation would have to be really common given the way blood houses trade certain use rights.
Things like "2 dads or 2 moms or swapped" would have to be fairly norm.
My own character (see sig) had fluff of a female "Paternal Donor" and a male "Maternal Donor" based on which house he was from & who the other donor was.