Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.

[Metallgewitter]

Which novel / sourcebook describes about her joining Clan Wolf and how ?

The FedCom civil war sourcebook also states that Victor banished her to the Wolf OZ, which was repeated in the FM 3067. Masters & Minions states that she was adopted into the Wolf clan and made a warrior which she achieved with a kill in her trial of position (which was later described in Legends as unloading all of her Warhawk's PPC's into a Victor). Plus her surnames Steiner-Davion was stripped and she earned the name Wolf with becoming a warrior

[JAMES_PRYDE]

Thanks for that

[Wrangler]

We don't know how she got her own bloodname aka Steiner.  That was never explained.

[tassa_kay]

We don't know how she got her own bloodname aka Steiner.  That was never explained.

She didn't get her own Bloodname (or any Bloodname).

[Spirit Cat Refugee]

We don't know how she got her own bloodname aka Steiner.  That was never explained.

Alaric's 'birthing' was a special situation entirely predicated on Katherine's wily political methods that ensnared Clan Wolf leadership.

[Nerroth]

Would Katherine - and, by extension, Alaric - have been eligible for the pre-existing Steiner Bloodname, akin to how Phelan was eligible for the Ward Bloodname back during the days of Operation REVIVAL?

While the Cloud Cobras have not been heard of since the Wars of Reaving Supplemental File, there are (if I recall) a few Bloodnames in common use by both the Homeworld Clans and by the Clans of the Inner Sphere and near Periphery (and by the Goliath Scorpions) at last reporting. So it might not have been entirely without precedent for the Cobras' Steiner Bloodname to be called upon as a basis for use by the Wolves, had they wished to do so here.

[Hellraiser]

Alaric's 'birthing' was a special situation entirely predicated on Katherine's wily political methods that ensnared Clan Wolf leadership.

It is possible w/o anything underhanded going on.
A Non-Bloodnamed person is allowed to be a "Gene-Father" in exceptional cases.
The original generation of 800 Bloodnamed also had 600 Non-Bloodnamed used as "Gene-Fathers" to expand the gene pool for diversity & it has been done sense then to "refresh the pool".

[Hellraiser]

Would Katherine - and, by extension, Alaric - have been eligible for the pre-existing Steiner Bloodname, akin to how Phelan was eligible for the Ward Bloodname back during the days of Operation REVIVAL?

While the Cloud Cobras have not been heard of since the Wars of Reaving Supplemental File, there are (if I recall) a few Bloodnames in common use by both the Homeworld Clans and by the Clans of the Inner Sphere and near Periphery (and by the Goliath Scorpions) at last reporting. So it might not have been entirely without precedent for the Cobras' Steiner Bloodname to be called upon as a basis for use by the Wolves, had they wished to do so here.

1.  Possible but we don't know enough I think.
The Ruling Steiner line above Katrina would have have to be a descendant of the original Bloodnamed like Phelan was.
I don't know enough about Steiner lineage to know if the 1st Bloonamed is one of Katrina's ancestors.
The Maternal part works since Katie, Melissa, Katrina are females the way Phelan had to be from Salome Ward & she was her own 3rd cousin or something like that so she had a link on both parents side or something from the fluff.

2.  But really it doesn't matter, Katie didn't need a Blood Name to be allowed to be the "Gene-Father" of Alaric as I mentioned previously.
You can have a Non-Bloodnamed be a donor, albeit, "rarely".  It is legal & completely possible to do so in the clans.

[Spirit Cat Refugee]

It is possible w/o anything underhanded going on.
A Non-Bloodnamed person is allowed to be a "Gene-Father" in exceptional cases.
The original generation of 800 Bloodnamed also had 600 Non-Bloodnamed used as "Gene-Fathers" to expand the gene pool for diversity & it has been done sense then to "refresh the pool".

Yes but Alaric was spawned using TWO non-Clan people. That's far out of the scope of Nicholas allowing 600 randos to diversify the genepool in the first trueborn generation.

[Colt Ward]

Yes but Alaric was spawned using TWO non-Clan people. That's far out of the scope of Nicholas allowing 600 randos to diversify the genepool in the first trueborn generation.

Which according to Clan records and knowledge, was not the case.  His codex shows Vlad Ward as his maternal donor, which is why the message about the McKenna battleship popped up for him.

[Metallgewitter]

Just thought about this: will there be any real Wolves left after whatever war is currently happening? The Wolves set their genelabs and iron wombs in their Empire but now with the Free worlds League launching a full assault I would think the League will shut those down once they conquer said planets (imho the League will just steamroll whatever defense the Empire has left). While I doubt they will go full Kurita and destroy any genetic repositories they find (was Alaric smart enough to carry at least a full copy of those to Terra) This would effectively shut down the creation of Wolf trueborns. Plus the coming battles will see the death of many Wolves. Which makes me think: what will happen to all those sibkos that are currently raised in the Empire? Kept separate from the League or maybe even "adopted" into nomal League families? Or perhaps the most effecient solution: hand them to the Clan Protectorate for safekeeping and education? Redemption Rites saw the "adoption" of Wolf constabularies into the League Admins but now we are also talking about children who were raised very differently.

[Spirit Cat Refugee]

Which according to Clan records and knowledge, was not the case.  His codex shows Vlad Ward as his maternal donor, which is why the message about the McKenna battleship popped up for him.

Yes but Hellraiser was making the point that Katherine getting the scientists/Seth Ward to allow her to create her little genetic spawn Alaric was normal since at the beginning of the breeding program some non-800 were used as genefathers. We're not arguing on whether or not Alaric Ward is a fraud that most people are unaware of, we're arguing how Katherine was able to convince Seth/those scientists to make a non-Clanner trueborn and then cover it up.

[BrianDavion]

Just thought about this: will there be any real Wolves left after whatever war is currently happening? The Wolves set their genelabs and iron wombs in their Empire but now with the Free worlds League launching a full assault I would think the League will shut those down once they conquer said planets (imho the League will just steamroll whatever defense the Empire has left). While I doubt they will go full Kurita and destroy any genetic repositories they find (was Alaric smart enough to carry at least a full copy of those to Terra) This would effectively shut down the creation of Wolf trueborns. Plus the coming battles will see the death of many Wolves. Which makes me think: what will happen to all those sibkos that are currently raised in the Empire? Kept separate from the League or maybe even "adopted" into nomal League families? Or perhaps the most effecient solution: hand them to the Clan Protectorate for safekeeping and education? Redemption Rites saw the "adoption" of Wolf constabularies into the League Admins but now we are also talking about children who were raised very differently.

I imagine Alaric will be getting a breeding program going fast, if he's SMART he'll declare new blood houses for any clan warriors who where partiuclarly notable on Terra etc

[Colt Ward]

It would be a good move, especially any of the League/Lyrans who survived Terra . . . or even RAF abathka from before landing on Terra.

[Metallgewitter]

That might be so but even if he builds the iron wombs on Terra now the first batches of sibkos would be ready in...3166? That is a VERY long time until new Wolf trueborns will come up. And if he recruits more former RAF members into the ranks the Wolves will become more and more IS. Then again he might just rebrand his Wolves as "Star League" and then every member is now a Star League member instead of a member of the Bears or Wolves or Ravens or even IS nation

[Nerroth]

1.  Possible but we don't know enough I think.
The Ruling Steiner line above Katrina would have have to be a descendant of the original Bloodnamed like Phelan was.
I don't know enough about Steiner lineage to know if the 1st Bloonamed is one of Katrina's ancestors.
The Maternal part works since Katie, Melissa, Katrina are females the way Phelan had to be from Salome Ward & she was her own 3rd cousin or something like that so she had a link on both parents side or something from the fluff.

By my understanding, the Steiner Bloodname was founded by Kailen Steiner, an illegitimate son of Paul Steiner - himself a son of Archon Michael Steiner II.

Assuming that Paul was also one of Archon Melissa Steiner's ancestors (which appears to be the case), that might allow for the kind of distant familial link to be established that worked for Phelan, were one deemed necessary at some point.

[Colt Ward]

Yes, this was all discussed when Din Steiner was a Star Colonel for a Nova Cat cluster in Path of Glory.

[Church14]

Just thought about this: will there be any real Wolves left after whatever war is currently happening? The Wolves set their genelabs and iron wombs in their Empire but now with the Free worlds League launching a full assault I would think the League will shut those down once they conquer said planets (imho the League will just steamroll whatever defense the Empire has left). While I doubt they will go full Kurita and destroy any genetic repositories they find (was Alaric smart enough to carry at least a full copy of those to Terra) This would effectively shut down the creation of Wolf trueborns. Plus the coming battles will see the death of many Wolves. Which makes me think: what will happen to all those sibkos that are currently raised in the Empire? Kept separate from the League or maybe even "adopted" into nomal League families? Or perhaps the most effecient solution: hand them to the Clan Protectorate for safekeeping and education? Redemption Rites saw the "adoption" of Wolf constabularies into the League Admins but now we are also talking about children who were raised very differently.

I love the Discworld’s Ankh-Morpork vibe  “you have conquered us, you will be assimilated, and we are sorry for what’s about to happen to you.”

[Hellraiser]

Yes but Hellraiser was making the point that Katherine getting the scientists/Seth Ward to allow her to create her little genetic spawn Alaric was normal since at the beginning of the breeding program some non-800 were used as genefathers. We're not arguing on whether or not Alaric Ward is a fraud that most people are unaware of, we're arguing how Katherine was able to convince Seth/those scientists to make a non-Clanner trueborn and then cover it up.

No.
I was making the point that based on "what we know" that Katie could be allowed to be the "Gene-Father" w/o anything underhanded going on.
Using Vic instead of Vlad was not what I was talking about at all.
Getting that done requires some serious manipulation.

[Hellraiser]

that might allow for the kind of distant familial link to be established that worked for Phelan, were one deemed necessary at some point.

I'm not sure on that.
Purely going from memory, I thought the Ward founder left behind a child in the IS when he went with Kerensky, that Child was Salome's ancestor.
The Steiner person is not a direct ancestor of Katherine.  Would be a many-greats Uncle I think.
But I might be misremembering the part about Ward.

[tassa_kay]

It wouldn't matter regardless. The Steiner Bloodname was exclusive to the Cobras and remained exclusive to them in the post-WoR era.

[Wrangler]

The Nova Cats had a Steiner among their touman.

Therefore at least one slot remained. It's possible that the wolves could have tried to do a capture of the blood name origin Gene materials. That has been done before and how can sometimes get blood names that don't necessarily come from their Clan originally.

[Colt Ward]

It wouldn't matter regardless. The Steiner Bloodname was exclusive to the Cobras and remained exclusive to them in the post-WoR era.

When have the Clans really balked at their laws stopping them from doing something?

If you can do it, and no one challenges you . . .

[tassa_kay]

When have the Clans really balked at their laws stopping them from doing something?

points to the failed attempts, plural, of the Grand Council to overturn the Great Refusal legally despite the fact that the Second Star League no longer existed to challenge them over it

points to the Tukayyid truce and the Clans chafing under it so badly that it eventually led to the fracturing of their entire social order with the Wars of Reaving

The Clans balk at this sort of thing all the damn time.

[tassa_kay]

The Nova Cats had a Steiner among their touman. Therefore at least one slot remained.

They had a warrior. Not the rights to that warrior's genetic legacy. The Nova Cats don't get the rights to the Steiner Bloodname just because they took Jal Steiner as abtakha.

It's possible that the wolves could have tried to do a capture of the blood name origin Gene materials. That has been done before and how can sometimes get blood names that don't necessarily come from their Clan originally.

Except that didn't happen. The Steiner Bloodname was exclusive to the Cobras even after the WoR, which means the Wolves (or more accurately, the Nova Cats in this case) never successfully captured the rights to that Bloodheritage.

And really, if the Wolves somehow did have the Steiner Bloodheritage, does anyone here really think that Katherine wouldn't have been all over that?

[Tyler Jorgensson]

It wouldn't matter regardless. The Steiner Bloodname was exclusive to the Cobras and remained exclusive to them in the post-WoR era.

One of the Shrapnels (IDR which but I was literally just reading thru them the other day) mentioned a new Trial in the IS post-WoR where ‘abandoned’ Bloodrights from the Homeworlds could propagate a new Bloodhouse. One could ‘argue’ that any Steiner Bloodnames in the IS could have done the same. Using that as a basis any ‘future’ Steiner’s could come from the new Bloodhouse, BUT theoretically then any descendant’s of the IS Steiner could use Phelan’s case to argue for being allowed to compete for the Trial of Bloodright (probably in a Grand Melee unless they have a sponsor).

That bunch of hypotheticals however is useless to KSD because none of it happened when she was taken as a bondswoman or when she achieved warrior status.

Alaric’s birth was KSD’s machinations with Seth Ward and ‘publicly’ used Vlad Wards genes (and her own ?) as the donors but in reality used VSD’s as well (or instead I’m not 100% sure offhand). Not per Clan codes and customs at all but KSD was wily and manipulative and got her way. Alarics own public revelation about his lineage muddies the waters but as the old Clan saying goes ‘Might Makes Right’: you don’t like it fight him.

[tassa_kay]

One of the Shrapnels (IDR which but I was literally just reading thru them the other day) mentioned a new Trial in the IS post-WoR where ‘abandoned’ Bloodrights from the Homeworlds could propagate a new Bloodhouse. One could ‘argue’ that any Steiner Bloodnames in the IS could have done the same. Using that as a basis any ‘future’ Steiner’s could come from the new Bloodhouse, BUT theoretically then any descendant’s of the IS Steiner could use Phelan’s case to argue for being allowed to compete for the Trial of Bloodright (probably in a Grand Melee unless they have a sponsor).

Yes, I'm aware of the Great Reavings article and the Trials of Propagation. And yes, it's a lazy cop-out way to insert random Bloodnames into the mix. Yet there's absolutely no evidence to show that the Steiner Bloodname made that transition, as the only example of a Steiner abtakha is with the Nova Cats, and they 1) aren't Clan anyway and aren't bound by their laws anymore and 2) would be the logical place to see new Steiners pop up, and they haven't. The whole scenario is a huge stretch and, as you said, a moot point anyway.

[BrianDavion]

TBH I imagine the writers would also prefer for their NOT to be a Steiner blood name (or a davion, kurita, liao or Marik bloodname) from a OOC context it can add some confusion, your averga enoob is going to get confused seeing a Steiner among the clans.

[Colt Ward]

Yes, I'm aware of the Great Reavings article and the Trials of Propagation. And yes, it's a lazy cop-out way to insert random Bloodnames into the mix. Yet there's absolutely no evidence to show that the Steiner Bloodname made that transition, as the only example of a Steiner abtakha is with the Nova Cats, and they 1) aren't Clan anyway and aren't bound by their laws anymore and 2) would be the logical place to see new Steiners pop up, and they haven't. The whole scenario is a huge stretch and, as you said, a moot point anyway.

The only cases, afaik are either all the Coyotes the Wolves ended up with, Adders in the Horses, or the Jaguars among the Warden Wolves- which bloodnames were recognized by the Crusader Wolves AND let a Jaguar set up a Trial of Propagation to add a heritage (Weavers).  Since the Wardens had Moon too . . . makes that bit of Bloodnames in the Hour a bit curious.

[rebs]

Without quoting anyone, I'm just going to bet a shiny nickel that a Bloodname Trial could only be the absolute death of Katrina S-D.  Even Vlad couldn't have rigged all that shit.