The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us

[Wrangler]

I love the IP3 Interstellar Expeditions, but there has not been any thing i found that draws line in what is canon and what is canon-rumor/non-canon results in the book.

Face value I think the minor Deep Periphery factions/worlds are canon, but it's nice to have actual line drawn how it should be considered.  I know they want keep options opened, but lordy it be nice have affirm marks saying this is actual fact, what is non-canon because this possible outcome of the adventure/seeds etc.

Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade too me solid source information that reliably canon.

[Weirdo]

Speaking of that product, does anyone know of any source that might say what alternate ammunition types would be appropriate for a Hansa force? Infernoes seem obvious given the Surtur's designed role, but what kind of LRM or AC munitions might have filtered out to them?

[Sartris]

officially: whatever is on the MUL

for funsies in your own game: whatever amuses you

[Weirdo]

The MUL has ammunition availability?!? :o

[Sartris]

only with MUL premium accounts page turned and i didn't notice

was in reply to

Have we been told yet what technology of WoB the Scorpions did capture when they conquered the WoB outpost in the WoR?

What kind of Mechs (high end designs as to Raptor II, Celestial series)?
Pocket warships?
Highend weapons as to Variable Speed Pulse Lasers and/or sub-capital weapons?

Can they produce such weapons?

[wantec]

Speaking of that product, does anyone know of any source that might say what alternate ammunition types would be appropriate for a Hansa force? Infernoes seem obvious given the Surtur's designed role, but what kind of LRM or AC munitions might have filtered out to them?

I would say potentially AP or Flechette are basically modern versions of firearms technology available today (and back in the '80s), so while TechManual lists them as new types of AC ammo, I think it could easily be fluffed as something the Hansa heard of and then made their own versions.

Swarm (LRM), T-Aug (LRM), and Fragmentation (LRM & SRM) are all described as Star League or "ancient" missile ammos that the Hansa could use. Those types went out of production as either the facilities were destroyed.

[Gorgon]

Speaking of that product, does anyone know of any source that might say what alternate ammunition types would be appropriate for a Hansa force? Infernoes seem obvious given the Surtur's designed role, but what kind of LRM or AC munitions might have filtered out to them?

Personally, I would go with: if it was available under standard rules by ~3067 it's fair game. Plus smoke and thunder, if you play with mines and such. This is purely base on this sentence from OTP:HC, page 9:

[...] the Hanseatic League by 3120 had advanced
their technology level nearly to that of the pre-Jihad Inner
Sphere.

But I don't think we have anything more concrete.

[truetanker]

Speaking of that product, does anyone know of any source that might say what alternate ammunition types would be appropriate for a Hansa force? Infernoes seem obvious given the Surtur's designed role, but what kind of LRM or AC munitions might have filtered out to them?

Missiles:
Smoke
Frag
Inferno / Incendiary
Tear Gas
Listen-Kill (mostly against the older tech)
Flare
Standard Ammo

Ballistics:
Rubber Bullets
Flak
Incendiary
Tracer
Standard Ammo

Artillery:
Sniper / Artillery Cannon
Thumper / Artillery Cannon
Long Tom (both Rail and Standard) / Artillery Cannon
Cluster Shell
Flechette Shell
Illumination Shell
Smoke Shell
Thunder Shell (possible Thumper only)

Primitive Tech
Late 3rd Successor Wars Tech
Davey Crocket-M (Long Tom)
Alamo (Aero only)
Santa Ana (Ground Silo)
Peacemaker (Ground Silo)
Types I and II Bioweapons
Type III Bioweapon (cautioned use)
Chemical Weapons

The above from IO and are just possible usage for the Hanseatic Security Force.

TT

[Doc Swift]

I think it's safe to say that since the Hanseatic Defense Force did not use any WMDs in the Hanseatic Crusade, they didn't have them despite the ability to make them.

[truetanker]

I posted this as the Security Force, not Defense Force, as they were renamed after at the beginning of the Dark Ages.

So, by default, they would have had these available.

They also would have heard about the Jihad atrocities of what WMDs can do, declining on their usage.

But earlier in their history, I can imagine small uses and such...

TT

[Doc Swift]

I disagree.

[rebs]

WMDs are clumsy weapons.  You don't just strike your enemy, you run the risk of ruining the very worlds that you are fighting over.

But the Scorpions are known as the finesse warriors.  Example: they have a ritual duel where you basically dance with a knife in each hand and perform a complicated, pre-ordered series of strikes and slices with said twin blades in order to succeed while your opponent tries to do the same to you.

Just not a nuke-throwing faction.  It's not in their blood.

[Weirdo]

Missiles:
Smoke
Frag
Inferno / Incendiary
Tear Gas
Listen-Kill (mostly against the older tech)
Flare
Standard Ammo

Ballistics:
Rubber Bullets
Flak
Incendiary
Tracer
Standard Ammo

Artillery:
Sniper / Artillery Cannon
Thumper / Artillery Cannon
Long Tom (both Rail and Standard) / Artillery Cannon
Cluster Shell
Flechette Shell
Illumination Shell
Smoke Shell
Thunder Shell (possible Thumper only)

Primitive Tech
Late 3rd Successor Wars Tech
Davey Crocket-M (Long Tom)
Alamo (Aero only)
Santa Ana (Ground Silo)
Peacemaker (Ground Silo)
Types I and II Bioweapons
Type III Bioweapon (cautioned use)
Chemical Weapons

The above from IO and are just possible usage for the Hanseatic Security Force.

TT

What's your source on all of these? I could be wrong, but I don't recall IO having a Hansa list.

[truetanker]

Alternative Eras General listing, cut off was extinct by 2nd SW or anything of that nature that required tech forgotten.

Everything else is on the General list available with some commonsense speculations.

The WMDs have been around for centuries, the () was suggestions.

TT

[Starfury]

If we're talking 3080 plus HDF, I'm sure they could use any of the specialty ammo for missiles or autocannons available pre-Jihad, or at least 3025 to 3050 lostech stuff such as Thunder or Swarm.  As for WMDs any of the small polities could develop or buy them, but I doubt the HDF would use them except in extremsis.  They don't have the centuries long scorched earth defense approach baked into their psyche like the Taurians do. Plus modernizing your military pays dividends in civilian development and sales to other powers.  The Hansa were merchants in the end.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

I noticed that Water Elemental Mining Suit is gone from Scorpion MAL (extinct after exodus)

Don't know if this is oversight or is it supposed to be gone?

I know it's inconsequential for the game itself but it would be really nice if team returned to to the list, underwater industry is such a big part of their background that it would be really strange if they left all those new oceans they got untapped

Unless they believe that they have enough ore on land and they don't want to bother anymore?


Same for Kirghiz C, it used to be one of their favorite methods of Elemental insertion but now it's also gone 

[Weirdo]

Same for Kirghiz C, it used to be one of their favorite methods of Elemental insertion but now it's also gone

Hold up, WHAT.

[tassa_kay]

I mean, the Scorps aren't having to fight over scant resources with grabby neighbors on hardscrabble worlds in the Kerensky Cluster/Pentagon anymore. Makes sense to me that they aren't pumping out underwater mining suits anymore when they have dozens of worlds that don't require specialized equipment to exploit.

As far as the Kirghiz C, the Scorps are still running their specialist Trinaries as late as the Hanseatic Crusade, so I'd call that an oversight.

[Sartris]

Hold up, WHAT.

they failed to abscond with enough from the homeworlds to make the list. it's been unmodified in that state on the MUL for years

[Weirdo]

So...it's physically impossible for them to run their trademark airmobile Trinaries. The Trinaries they are specifically noted as still using during Hanseatic Crusade. Kuzco's Trinaries.

[Sartris]

only if you use a pedantic reading of the MUL that is contrary to how the lists are meant to be read, yeah.

[Weirdo]

I'm very confused. The MUL days they don't have Kirghiz in appreciable numbers, but you're saying they can still operate the formations that require Kirghiz in large numbers?

[Sartris]

Fluff isn’t game rules. The death commandos allegedly can field any mech they want. That does not affect capellan lists. This one subsection of their touman can be treated similarly if you prefer.

[tassa_kay]

As always, Sartris, thank you for the reminder that the MUL isn't the be-all-end-all of availability. It really helps in these edge cases.

[VensersRevenge]

There are also 8 omnifighters with 10+ tons of podspace on the Scorpion Empire IlClan MUL, any of which can be configured to airdrop Elementals the same way a Kirghiz could.

[Gorgon]

That's not a bad idea, the Scorpions working with what they got to keep using their established tactics. Sounds about right to me. This would even allow them to use a lighter & faster ASF to insert their Elementals. Like a Visigoth or even a Sulla  xp

[Weirdo]

That only helps those willing to stoop to customs.

Now if this is a hint that CGL is planning to release new OmniFighter configs, I'm all for it.

[Starfury]

Omniunits by their very nature are designed to be adapted to new circumstances.  I don't see why using one unit to fulfill a fluff unit organization would provide any real problem for any game, especially since you're  giving away several tons of pod space for the ability to drop battle armor via aircraft.

[tassa_kay]

I don't see why using one unit to fulfill a fluff unit organization would provide any real problem for any game

He literally just explained why: he doesn't use custom units/configs.

[VensersRevenge]

That only helps those willing to stoop to customs.

Now if this is a hint that CGL is planning to release new OmniFighter configs, I'm all for it.

I really don't understand or care about you refusing to use customs, all I was pointing out is that there is no reason the Khirgiz is essential in universe