Intersteller expeditions expedition make up?

[glitterboy2098]

what would a IE exploration group actually look like, in terms of ships and embarked gear/crew? for example, the group that went to explore the California Nebula, a deep space exploration mission. the nebula california sourcebook doesn't really say what they had, though we know they had a MkVII shuttle, several huscarl fighters*, and several mechs including a wasp based on mentions.



*this one was surprising to me, given how advanced and uncommon those are.

[HABeas2]

what would a IE exploration group actually look like, in terms of ships and embarked gear/crew? for example, the group that went to explore the California Nebula, a deep space exploration mission. the nebula california sourcebook doesn't really say what they had, though we know they had a MkVII shuttle, several huscarl fighters*, and several mechs including a wasp based on mentions.

*this one was surprising to me, given how advanced and uncommon those are.

Even in the 3120s, about 60 years after introduction?

Leaving aside the non-canonicity of the Nebula California for a moment, IE has no set standard when it comes to ships, escorts, or group sizes. Long-haul missions could happen with as little as an Explorer JumpShip, some small craft, and the odd WorkMech (the Dr. Brooklyn Stevens approach), or they could be well-stocked affairs with multi-collar JumpShips, supply and transport DropShips, and mercenary escorts. As organizations go, IE relies heavily on volunteer help and folks with connections to make up for what their expedition financiers fail to cover.

(For the unofficial record, IE's CalNeb I Expedition took 4 JumpShips and 12 DropShips with them in total. No ship classes have been identified to date, but among the DropShips were at least 2 Fighter Carriers, 1 'Mech Carrier, and 1 Civilian Transport.

Although the details are never stated fully, the JumpShip names were Nereus, Sisyphus, Tiffny Benz, and Yeux de Quebec. Of their discoveries in the WttNC book...
YDQ and Nereus, with at least 1 fighter carrier each, were the ones that checked out the Star Empire Binary.
Nereus then (or previously) checked out Toreel, with at least 1 fighter carrier and one Mech carrier..
Sisyphus, with at least 1 civilian DropShip, covered Syberia.
Tiffny Benz, with at least 1 Mech Carrier, visited Earth.)

Hope that helps.

- Herb

[VhenRa]

Its also likely going to differ on exactly what sort of expedition it is.

Longer distance ones are more likely to be more ships simply to carry the additional supplies required.

[Daryk]

Efficiency alone will drive them to the Stevens approach.  Drop collars are EXPENSIVE, even before you pay for a DropShip and crew.

[Frabby]

IE practically took over what ComStar's Explorer Corps did before (to the point where iirc a significant share of the personnel and machinery are identical).

If the Explorer Corps is anything to go by, IE will rely heavily on small JumpShips and forego anything that has more than 3 collars.

[idea weenie]

IE practically took over what ComStar's Explorer Corps did before (to the point where iirc a significant share of the personnel and machinery are identical).

If the Explorer Corps is anything to go by, IE will rely heavily on small JumpShips and forego anything that has more than 3 collars.

I'd see IE using multiple Jumpships not because of the collar limit, but because of redundancy.  Essentially if one of the Jumpships fails, the group leader can choose to either keep going or return home.


As a comparison, I'd like to show the costs for an Invader Jumpship vs a Monolith Jumpship, just taking the K-F Drive and K-F Drive Support systems into account (the most expensive part of the Jumpship, and only bothering with the stuff that would cost 1M+):
(all numbers are from Strategic Operations, corrected 4th printing, page 146)
Drive Coil: 60M + 75M/Dropship
Initiator: 25M + 5M/Dropship
Other Fixed costs: 50M
Jumpship Support System: 10M * Unit Tonnage/10,000

So an Invader (150 ktons) with 3 Collars would Subtotal 525M and have a final cost of 656.25M
A Monolith massing 450 ktons with 9 collars would Subtotal 1305M and have a final cost of 1631.25M

Carrying 9 Dropships via 3 Invaders would cost 1968.75M in Jumpships vs only one Monolith costing 1631.25M.  But when you are going out into deep space the spare Jumpships mean your people can plan to return home, instead of keeping stockpiles for colonization packages up to date and writing their Wills before each trip.

[Wrangler]

Interstellar Expedition book (Interstellar Players) is semi-canon, so I don't have the book handy, but it may detail stuff you maybe looking for.

There hasn't been any modern update (Dark Age / IlClan)  what their current organization is like.   I would suspect their in bad shape by the time ilClan happened.   

[glitterboy2098]

how big of dropships would expeditions likely have? would you mostly see smaller stuff like Leopards mixed with a few larger cargo dropships for supplies? or would they be making use of bigger ships in general?

or would it be a military vs civilian split? because i can't imagine they'd be able to get big military ships (assault dropships, large mech transports, etc) but could see them being abler to obtain large cargo ships and the smaller military stuff.

[Daryk]

You only need "military" dropships if you expect to do an assualt drop.  That gear requires at least 150% the weight of a 'mech it's dropping.  Vehicles are cheaper, of course... not to mention infantry (even the xeno kind)...  ^-^

[AlphaMirage]

I think they would use larger dropships as jumpship collars would be at a premium. You'd expect expeditions to take some time so you need plenty of supplies and cargo space to return any interesting artifacts you might uncover. Small craft bays would be more suitable for sending small away teams to remote locations and deploying orbiters as they can always just top off at the larger ship.

[Daryk]

Small Craft bays have WAY more overhead than Drop Collars...  8)

[idea weenie]

how big of dropships would expeditions likely have? would you mostly see smaller stuff like Leopards mixed with a few larger cargo dropships for supplies? or would they be making use of bigger ships in general?

or would it be a military vs civilian split? because i can't imagine they'd be able to get big military ships (assault dropships, large mech transports, etc) but could see them being abler to obtain large cargo ships and the smaller military stuff.

Given the (lack of) size of the Leopards I don't see IE using them, but instead using Small Craft to do duties that would normally be assigned to Leopards.  Remember that each Dropship takes up one Docking Collar no matter the size of the Dropship, so if IE is trying to keep costs down then using a few large Dropships is better than using many smaller Dropships.

Civilian Dropships would be a good idea, as a Mule is common enough that IE should be able to get a few of them.  Now what sort of modifications they make after buying the Dropships is another matter.

Small Craft bays have WAY more overhead than Drop Collars...  8)

Can you expand on this please?  Off-hand I'd figure that the KF connection needed would make a Docking Collar need more overhead, but I have been wrong before (quite often too)

[Daryk]

A 200 ton Small Craft Bay can accommodate a 200 ton Small Craft at maximum.  A 1,000 ton Drop Collar can accommodate a 100,000 ton DropShip... that's what I mean...  8)

[CVB]

Put a small craft bay on the dropship?

[Daryk]

That's one way around it... DropShip Collars are the solution to all kinds of overhead problems...  ^-^

[AlphaMirage]

Put a small craft bay on the dropship?

Yeah that was my intention, it also reduces the chance of a single bad landing crippling the expedition

[Wrangler]

Dark Age era would properly allow for civilian conversions since that was seen a lot during the early Dark age novels, given how Republic of the Sphere was pushing demilitarization of the civilian non-government sectors of the Inner Sphere economy.

[Daryk]

Did the Republic not learn the K'zinti lesson? ???

[Lazarus Sinn]

Did the Republic not learn the K'zinti lesson? ???

Nope.

[HABeas2]

Did the Republic not learn the K'zinti lesson? ???

What's a K'zinti?

- Herb

[Daryk]

Here you go: https://larryniven.net/kzin/worlds.shtml

[HABeas2]

Here you go: https://larryniven.net/kzin/worlds.shtml

Please tell me you knew what I actually meant?

- Herb

[Daryk]

Sometimes a straight line makes a joke better...  ::)

[Lazarus Sinn]

Being basically giant cats with anger issues, K'zinti like ice cream and hair dryers. They are not known for subtlety in combat. Their primary method of attacking being referred to as "Scream and Leap."

[Hellraiser]

(For the unofficial record, IE's CalNeb I Expedition took 4 JumpShips and 12 DropShips with them in total.

The Math works out nicely as all Invaders but you can come up with other options I suppose.

[glitterboy2098]

honestly i'd give them at least one Tramp. it carries the same dropship load as an invader, but is better configured for long use and has effective defensive guns.

[HABeas2]

The Math works out nicely as all Invaders but you can come up with other options I suppose.

Huh. Funny enough, my notes did not set the JumpShip classes. I presume a majority were Invaders, but one may have been a Tramp.

- Herb

[glitterboy2098]

Tramps are pretty popular in the periphery, probably because they carry two orders of magnitude more internal cargo than the Invader (2834 vs 40 tons) and an order of magnitude more fuel (500 vs 50 tons.) and they carry more dropships than the common merchant class.

honestly if not for the rarity of the class (having been OOP since the star league fell and then in only small batch limited production since 3046) i'd have imagined there being multiple in the group.

[Prospernia]

So their goal is exploration?  Why military-equipment?  What good will it do?  What if they find another group of Clans; their military-equipment will be futile.

Best to send two or more jump-ships with good communications-equipment, you can haul and HPG with you in space right?  And a lot of good engineers that can solve any problems, and transmit regular-reports on their progress.

[AlphaMirage]

The Explorer Corps might be able to use a mobile HPG but interstellar expeditions is not COMSTAR affiliated so they wouldn't have access to it. Military equipment is for defense against poorly equipped pirates or hostile natives. I don't expect that IE sent back reports they'd probably have a resupply stop somewhere along the expedition route and dropships full of spare everything.