Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread IV - READ THE FIRST POST

[nckestrel]

Penetrator PTR-8D (rec guide vol 27)

Has Laser AMS, should probably have ENE special ability.

The coolant pod is explosive and disqualifies it.

[GoldBishop]

Teppō Artillery Vehicle
MUL Entry: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5207/teppo-artillery-vehicle
Errata to the unit's TRO entry: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/technical-readout-3085-supplemental/msg1203051/#msg1203051

Was looking at some artillery units and this one caught my attention.  Did some investigating but hit a snag regarding a couple issues

1st Issue: BV is missing from the MUL.
Data entry from 2016 does suggest a value of 1,874 though this value could have changed along with any other changes to the Battle Value system since then (I haven't seen any more recent revisions but I could be mistaken).  I could not find an updated official Record Sheet in any of the more recent publications (RS: Clan Invasion, Jihad, Dark Age, or even 3150) but the changes found in the 2016 Errata entry for the TRO statlines - when run through the Alpha Strike conversion process - do match the statistics displayed on the units AS card in the link, with one exception...

2nd Issue: Alpha Strike PV appears off.  I am coming up short of the posted value (91) though after consulting the AS Companion, I have manually calculated the PV to be 81 instead (80.5 before rounding).  Normally Id chalk up 1-2 PV as a rounding error on my part, but I cannot account for a +10 PV discrepancy even with the v5 errata (pending 6th).
The following values for consideration:
OFV 39.0 (3 Ranged Damage + 36 artillery)
DFV 36.5 (0.5 MV wheeled + 1.0 AMS DSAF + 35.0 DIR)
GFB 5.0  (ECM + MHQ3)

[nckestrel]

Teppo had an error due to the mismatched artillery not being handled correctly.  Adjusting PV to 79 (the 0* at medium and short only cost 1.5 instead of 3 for OFV).
I'll let somebody else handle BV..

[Sartris]

With the Mercenaries Kickstarting bringing us new models for the IS Standard Battle Armor, I have a question about Comstar's usage of these units.

Looking at the MUL I can see that Comstar uses 4 person squad sizes in the Clan Invasion era, but then only uses the 6 person squad sizes afterward.

As a Comstar/Wobbie player (shocker, I know), I thought all Comstar/WOB units used 6 as the base of their lvl 2s. Why was this change made after the Clan Invasion era and would I be disallowed from using the 6 person squads in tourneys set in this era?

Or is this just an oddity with the MUL or canon? Or both?

May Blakes blessings be upon you

Hi, thanks for this. You've stumbled across an MUL quirk that led to an incorrect listing. Between the Early Succession Wars and the end of the Jihad, ComStar (and the Word of Blake starting in 3052) draws from the Inner Sphere General List. The quartet of four-man IS Standard BA squads were on that IS General List, which caused them to show up on the ComStar and WoB rosters. I have adjusted the IS General (Sqd4) suits' availability by removing IS General and adding the ten factions back that use it (CC, DC, FS, FC, FRR, FWL, LA, LC, 2SL, SIC). The six-man squad should now be the only one showing up on CS/WoB lists.

[pokefan548]

Regarding the Dictator, TRO: 3075 states:

Three Succession Wars took their toll on the Dictator, and most of the survivors are in a very poor state of repair.

This implies that between the Early Succession Wars and the Jihad, there were active (if only barely) Dictators, and the design never truly went extinct. The MUL lists them as extinct until Canopus activates their own lines and/or refurbishment program during the Jihad.

Quick check-in just to make sure this didn't get lost between the couch cushions.

[Sartris]

not lost, just had to figure out exactly what to do with it.

The text clearly rules out extinction. However, the remaining numbers were very small after the Second Succession War. No faction until MoC during the Jihad would possess any in qualifying numbers. Seeing one would be a rare encounter, but not an unheard of presence in most navies or even the odd merc unit.

[Sartris]

Record Sheets 3150 has sheets for the Cavalier II armed with Flamer, Medium Recoilless Rifle, Support PPC and SRM 1.  The MUL only has entries for Medium Recoilless Rifle, Support PPC and SRM.  Should there be a Flamer option in the MUL?

Yes. Need to have the AS stats vetted but it will get in there

IS Standard Baka has an introductory date of 3086 and an introductory era of Dark Age (3131 - 3150).  One of these is wrong.

changed to Early Republic

[pokefan548]

not lost, just had to figure out exactly what to do with it.

The text clearly rules out extinction. However, the remaining numbers were very small after the Second Succession War. No faction until MoC during the Jihad would possess any in qualifying numbers. Seeing one would be a rare encounter, but not an unheard of presence in most navies or even the odd merc unit.

Not worth it just for the Dictator, but aren't there a couple designs in that boat? Perhaps a good place for some generic "Rare" faction similar to Unique?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The Stooping Hawk E doesn't have an Era button in the search menu (should be Clan Invasion).

[Sartris]

huh. how about that.

[Weirdo]

not lost, just had to figure out exactly what to do with it.

The text clearly rules out extinction. However, the remaining numbers were very small after the Second Succession War. No faction until MoC during the Jihad would possess any in qualifying numbers. Seeing one would be a rare encounter, but not an unheard of presence in most navies or even the odd merc unit.

Suggestion: Don't put it in IS General, but give it to every relevant faction with the Unique tag. That would show that just about everybody could have at least one, but you'd never see more than one or two in a given faction's service(three at most).

[Gribbly]

Same issue with the 'Armored Personnel Carrier (Hover)'.


The 'Sabaku Kaze Heavy Scout Hover Tank' also has RWR and SL General availability in the SL era, but no access for the Draconis Combine. The factory was on a DC world and it's available to DC until 2883.

Similarly the 'Skulker Wheeled Scout Tank' is based on a generic APC chassis and built in the DC with later era IS general availability, but limited to SL General and RWR in the SL era.

Another similar issue with the AC/2 Carrier. It's not on the IS or Periphery general lists for the SL era, but the SRM Carrier and LRM Carrier are listed.

[Sartris]

Same issue with the 'Armored Personnel Carrier (Hover)'.

The 'Sabaku Kaze Heavy Scout Hover Tank'

Similarly the 'Skulker Wheeled Scout Tank'

triple fixed

Another similar issue with the AC/2 Carrier. It's not on the IS or Periphery general lists for the SL era, but the SRM Carrier and LRM Carrier are listed.

The AC/2 carrier was built at specific factories. I have added DC, FS, and DC where those factories were active during the Star League era

[Gribbly]

Many thanks!

Infiltrator Mk. II Battle Armor Mk. II "Puma"
Infiltrator Mk. II Battle Armor Mk. II (Sensor)

Are the second 'Mk. II' statements redundant for these types?

[NeoRaven78]

I have copied the entire BattleMech MUL into a spreadsheet in an attempt to collect every "official" record sheet. While going through my record sheets, I have noticed than many of the units in the MUL are linking to an older record sheet instead of the newest version available. Does this matter for purposes of the MUL or should every unit show the most recent record sheet?

[Sartris]

since we can only reference one sheet it can be a bit tricky.

Generally speaking, we will reference the newest sheet - but there are exceptions. It's usually decided on a case-by-case basis. The one thing we *try* to always do is list a source that is free (like what you find on the downloads page) over something that is not.

[NeoRaven78]

I have found one unit that is not even listed although there may be a reason that I have missed.

Juliano JLN-5M
Tonnage: 90
Tech. Base: Mixed (I.S.)
Era: Dark Age
BV: 2,105

Printed in Record Sheets: 3145 Unabridged
I have no idea where this variant might be mentioned

[Sartris]

typo. it's the 5A and is listed as such in TRO 3150. This error has been corrected in RS: 3150

[Empyrus]

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7774/wakamiya-salvage-destroyer

Pondering availability of this. Since the Rasalhague Republic and then Ghost Bears took over various Combine worlds, i wonder if the Wakamiya should be available to those factions? HBHK says it was mostly used on water worlds, and for example, Alshain seems like a reasonable candidate to have a Wakamiya or two given its importance.
No direct evidence for this though, and there's naturally a question if the Ghost Bears would maintain any wet navy forces.

[Sartris]

Would require direct evidence

[Empyrus]

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2059/marauder-ii-mad-5a

Should this have CASE ability in AS?
Looking at AS conversion rules and errata PDF, CASE ability doesn't seem to specify it must be actually placed so that it would have effect in BattleTech. The MAD-5A's CASE is notoriously not covering ammo, but that doesn't seem to matter for AS conversion.

[mordel]

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2059/marauder-ii-mad-5a

Should this have CASE ability in AS?
Looking at AS conversion rules and errata PDF, CASE ability doesn't seem to specify it must be actually placed so that it would have effect in BattleTech. The MAD-5A's CASE is notoriously not covering ammo, but that doesn't seem to matter for AS conversion.

Indeed it should!

[NeoRaven78]

Von Luckner Heavy Tank VNL-K85N shows as VNL-85N in the MUL
Von Luckner Heavy Tank VNL-K90 shows as VNL-90 in the MUL

Have these model numbers been changed intentionally or are these typos? I cannot find any errata or log showing where they were changed.

[The Wayfarer]

Hi,

   The Owens OW-1G in the MUL is showing a record sheet collection of RS:3145.  It is not located in this collection of record sheets.  It can be found in "Record Sheets:  3145 New Tech, New Upgrades" page 101.  I do not see a MUL source for this volume.

Mike

[Sartris]

RS: 3145 pg 350

[Sartris]

Von Luckner Heavy Tank VNL-K85N shows as VNL-85N in the MUL
Von Luckner Heavy Tank VNL-K90 shows as VNL-90 in the MUL

Have these model numbers been changed intentionally or are these typos? I cannot find any errata or log showing where they were changed.

I’ll have to double check these but it’s almost certain that the K was omitted when entered

[Valkerie]

Hi all.  Just stumbled on this. Ha Otoko HR has OVL listed as a special, but it has no overheat value.

[ArcFurnace]

Are the AS stats listed for the Prime Mover and its variants correct? The AS card shown for the 2420 variant seems to imply that it has a LRM5 in its turret, but TRO Irregulars states that the Star League variant should have two forward-mounted SL and a SRM4 in the turret. All three variants also list CT10, but per TRO Irregulars should be capable of carrying two 10-ton cargo containers. Shouldn't that be CT20? I am not the most familiar with AS conversion rules, so I could be wrong.

[NeoRaven78]

I am unable to find Record Sheets for the following units in the sources listed.

Hornet HNT-181              No record sheet in Experimental TRO: Republic Vol. 2
Thorn THE-F         No record sheet in RS: 3039 Unabridged
Panther PNT-12K      No record sheet in RS: 3085 Unabridged – The Cutting Edge
Wolfhound (Lucian Finn)   No record sheet in RS: 3050 Upgrades Unabridged – Inner Sphere
Chameleon TRC-4C      No record sheet in Recognition Guide: ilClan Vol. 25
Eidolon C-EID-001      No record sheet in RS: 3085 Unabridged – The Cutting Edge
Griffin GRF-2N2         No record sheet in RS: Operation Klondike
Champion CHP-1Nb2      No record sheet in RS: Operation Klondike
Crusader CRD-4L      No record sheet in RS: 3085 Unabridged – Project Phoenix
Victor VTR-9D         No record sheet in RS: 3050 Upgrades Unabridged – Inner Sphere
Banshee (John Bauer)   No record sheet in RS: 3050 Upgrades Unabridged – Inner Sphere

[Sartris]

Hornet HNT-181 - Correct. No RS exists currently

Thorn THE-F - Make sure to check the "Notes" on the MUL page. It explicitly says to use the THE-S sheet

Panther PNT-12K - Notes say to use PNT-12K2

Chameleon TRC-4C - Use TRC-4B. It's the clan version with a slightly different cockpit that doesn't reach game rules

Eidolon C-EID-001 - I'm seeing it on Pg 133 of 3085u: The Cutting Edge

Griffin GRF-2N2 - Correct, no RS. Replace the ERPPC with a PPC

Champion CHP-1Nb2 - Correct, no RS. Replace the ERPPC with a PPC

Crusader CRD-4L - Notes say to use CRD-4D

Victor VTR-9D - Notes say to use VTR-9K

Wolfhound (Lucian Finn)   
Banshee (John Bauer)   

Need to look into these two