Author Topic: How would you have made the generalist design?  (Read 1130 times)

Ruger

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How would you have made the generalist design?
« on: 29 April 2023, 08:25:00 »
The assignment is to make a introtech generalist multi-role design that can perform many roles, maybe not as good as a specialist, but still well enough. How would you do it?

Many would say the Shadow Hawk-2H is at least a decent starting point, so let’s go there and see where the road takes us.

My thought is that the basic design has more than enough heat sinks, good armor, ok mobility and good ground speed for its size. Firepower could use a bit of work though.

The 2D model did ok with upgrading the firepower, but the armor frankly sucks. So, what do we do?

Most would say replace the AC with a large laser or PPC. Too obvious and easy to me. Let’s keep the AC. But let’s see if we can duplicate the 2D’s firepower with minimal changes. Can we?

Yes, we can:

Code: [Select]
                 BattleMech Technical Readout

Name/Model:         Shadow Hawk SHD-2G
Designer:           Ruger
Source(s):          Custom Mordel.Net Units
Technology:         Inner Sphere
Technology Rating:  D
Tonnage:            55
Role:               Skirmisher
Configuration:      Biped BattleMech
Era/Year:           Star League / 2550
Rules (Current):    Introductory
Rules (Era):        Introductory
Rules (Year):       Introductory
Total Cost:         4,577,357 C-Bills
Battle Value:       1,172

Chassis:              Earthwerks SHD
Power Plant:          Core Tek 275
Walking Speed:        54 kph   
Maximum Speed:        86.4 kph 
Jump Jets:            Pitban LFT-50
    Jump Capacity:    90 meters
Armor:                Maximillian 43
Armament:             
    1 Armstrong J11 Autocannon/5
    2 Martel Medium Lasers
    1 Holly LRM 5
    1 Holly SRM 4
Manufacturer:         Earthwerks Incorporated, Majesty Metals and Manufacturing
    Primary Factory:  Calloway VI (EI), Dunianshire (MMM)
Communications:       O/P 300 COMSET
Targeting & Tracking: O/P 2000A

================================================================================================
Equipment                                                             Mass                     
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure:                          Standard                  5.50                     
Engine:                                     275 Fusion                15.50                     
    Walking MP:                                 5                                               
    Running MP:                                 8                                               
    Jumping MP:                                 3                                               
Heat Sinks (Single):                            10                     0.00                     
Gyro:                                        Standard                  3.00                     
Cockpit:                                     Standard                  3.00                     
Armor Factor:                                  152                     9.50                     
    Type:                                    Standard                                           

                                    Internal         Armor     
                                    Structure        Value     
    Head:                               3              9       
    Center Torso:                      18             23       
    Center Torso (rear):                               8       
    R/L Torso:                         13             18       
    R/L Torso (rear):                                  6       
    R/L Arm:                            9             16       
    R/L Leg:                           13             16       

================================================================================================
Weapons and Ammo                                       Location          Critical     Tonnage   
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SRM 4                                                     H                 1          2.00             
Jump Jet                                                  CT                1          0.50             
Jump Jet                                                  RT                1          0.50             
LRM 5                                                     RT                1          2.00             
LRM 5 (Ammo 24)                                           RT                1          1.00             
SRM 4 (Ammo 25)                                           RT                1          1.00             
Autocannon/5                                              LT                4          8.00             
Autocannon/5 (Ammo 20)                                    LT                1          1.00             
Jump Jet                                                  LT                1          0.50             
Medium Laser                                              RA                1          1.00             
Medium Laser                                              LA                1          1.00             

================================================================================================
Alpha Strike Statistics                                             
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Point Value (PV): 33
TP: BM,  SZ: 2,  TMM: 2,  MV: 10"/6"j
Damage: (S) 2 / (M) 3 / (L) 1,  OV: 0
Armor (A): 5,  Structure (S): 5
Specials: IF0*, JMPW1

Looking at this, I think I’d really like to use this variant in a game.

Ruger
« Last Edit: 29 April 2023, 08:37:24 by Ruger »
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly

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idea weenie

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Re: How would you have made the generalist design?
« Reply #1 on: 29 April 2023, 10:10:47 »
My favorite canon design is the Gladiator.  A 55-tonner moving 5/8/5, armed with PPC + 2ML + SRM-6, 13 SHS, and 9.5 tons of armor.  Long-range energy weapon means it can snipe without worry, while Medium Lasers and the SRM-6 provide a nice gut-punching ability.

Comparing to your design, yours is ~10% cheaper, has plenty of long-range fire (and half of it is immune to AMS), and the ML+SRM-4 give it good in-fighting ability.  The only advantages the Gladiator has are 2 more pts of Jump speed, and 3 more pts of cooling (but will be needed for the PPC).

Overall, as long as your Mech can keep its ammo supplied/protected it is a nice setup.

AlphaMirage

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Re: How would you have made the generalist design?
« Reply #2 on: 29 April 2023, 10:35:12 »
I actually prefer the Hunchback 4N as the generalist medium, while it doesn't jump it is a million c-bills cheaper, has two LRM-5s (or they could be swapped for two SRM-4s in the field given time) and a quartet of medium lasers (although I would move them to the arms).

Sabelkatten

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Re: How would you have made the generalist design?
« Reply #3 on: 29 April 2023, 16:56:06 »
The BLA-4F Blaster. Hasn't let me down yet even when going up against clantech. Enough firepower to be useful with a weapon for every instance (long-range AA excepted). Decent mobility, decent armor, even has an AI weapon. And all at 70% the cost of a 55-tonner!

Code: [Select]
Blaster BLA-4F

Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Introductory
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-E-D-A
Production Year: 3025
Cost: 2,894,127 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,016

Chassis: Andoran Model III modified Standard
Power Plant: BMW 200 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Luxor Load Lifters
    Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Durallex Medium Standard Armor
Armament:
    1 Defiance B3L Large Laser
    1 Defiance B3M Medium Laser
    1 Coventry Five-Tube LRM-5
    1 Hotshot Flamer
Manufacturer: Bjornlunda Motor Werken
    Primary Factory: Bjornlunda
Communications System: TharHes Thalia HM-22
Targeting and Tracking System: Federated Hunter Mk III

Variants:
The original -4A mounts a heat sinks instead of the flamer.


The -4P-F replaces the LL with a PPC and the LRM5 with 2 MLs. It also drops one
SHS.


The infighter -4S replaces the LL with a SRM6 and a ML.


The firesupport -4P-M drops the ML and flamer and replaces the LL with a PPC.


================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      67 points                4.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                200                       8.50
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 5 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   2.50
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             12                        2.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL
Gyro:               Standard                                               2.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 128                  8.00

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     12           18       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  5         
                                           L/R Torso     10           15       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  5         
                                             L/R Arm     6            12       
                                             L/R Leg     10           16       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser                                 HD        3         1         1.00
LRM-5                                        CT        2         1         2.00
Large Laser                                  RA        8         2         5.00
Flamer                                       LA        3         1         1.00
@LRM-5 (24)                                  LL        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 32

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      4    Points: 10
5j         2       2       1       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

paladin2019

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Re: How would you have made the generalist design?
« Reply #4 on: 29 April 2023, 19:57:55 »
I actually prefer the Hunchback 4N as the generalist medium, while it doesn't jump it is a million c-bills cheaper, has two LRM-5s (or they could be swapped for two SRM-4s in the field given time) and a quartet of medium lasers (although I would move them to the arms).
Any 'mech with short (ie, SRM/medium laser) range weapons with arm mounted weapons is questionable. Not being able to punch (for much better head hit chances) when you close is not optimal, especially with 'mech as pugnaciously built as a Hunchback.
<-- first 'mech I drove as a Robotech destroid pilot way back when

Elmoth

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Re: How would you have made the generalist design?
« Reply #5 on: 30 April 2023, 07:54:54 »
5/8.
3 jump minimum to clear obstacles.
Energy based. Can have something with amm0 (LRM or SRM preferably), but as a secondary weapon. So a LRM10 por a SMR6 is OK, but backing a PPC or LL.
Able to engage at diferent ranges, of course.

So I would take a Griffin, remove 2 jump jets and add 2 medium lasers and be done with it. Once the LRMs are out it is still a dangeorous mech with a PPC and 2 lasers you cannot ignore.

As a Griffin, finding surplus parts would be fairly easy in the IS. And that is important for long term usefulness.

Dakkath

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  • Posts: 361
Re: How would you have made the generalist design?
« Reply #6 on: 30 April 2023, 08:17:32 »
55 tons
5/8/5
14 single heat sinks
1 PPC + 3 medium lasers (optionally swap one laser for a flamer if you need anti-infantry)
1 point shy of max armor

you could rearrange the locations of the weapons to fit this on a wolverine, shadowhawk, griffin, or gladiator

Code: [Select]
Wolverine 6E

Mass: 55 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Introductory
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-E-D-D
Production Year: 2750
Dry Cost: 4,932,307 C-Bills
Total Cost: 4,932,307 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,420

Chassis: Standard
Power Plant: 275 Fusion Engine
Jump Jets: 5
Armor: Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  PPC
    3  Medium Lasers

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      91 points                5.50
Engine:             Fusion Engine                275                      15.50
    Walking MP: 5 (54.0 km/h)
    Running MP: 8 (86.4 km/h)
    Jumping MP: 5 Standard (150 meters)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   2.50
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             14                        4.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 CT, 1 LL, 1 RL
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 184                 11.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     18           27       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  8         
                                           L/R Torso     13           20       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  6         
                                             L/R Arm     9            18       
                                             L/R Leg     13           26       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PPC                                          RA        10        3         7.00
Medium Laser                                 RT        3         1         1.00
Medium Laser                                 LT        3         1         1.00
Medium Laser                                 HD        3         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 33

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      6    Points: 14
5j         2       2       1       0      2     1   Structure:  5
Special Abilities: ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
« Last Edit: 30 April 2023, 10:48:57 by Dakkath »
Guns may be a right, but kneecaps are a privilege.

Daryk

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  • Posts: 40560
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: How would you have made the generalist design?
« Reply #7 on: 30 April 2023, 13:30:54 »
Apparently, the FedCom was buying SHD-2Hs from Majesty Metals, so I think the below is easily doable.  The TAC adds anti-just about everything capability, while the LRM-5 can load smoke or HE, and a Medium Laser is one of those things you don't really want to do without.  I dropped the extra ton into armor.
Code: [Select]
Shadow TAC SHD-2HT

Mass: 55 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-F-E-D
Production Year: 3025
Dry Cost: 4,826,907 C-Bills
Total Cost: 4,866,907 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,069

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 275 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  Medium Laser
    1  LRM-5
    1  Thumper Art. Cannon
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      91 points                5.50
Engine:             Fusion Engine                275                      15.50
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 5 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   2.50
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 168                 10.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            8         
                                        Center Torso     18           26       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  6         
                                           L/R Torso     13           21       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  5         
                                             L/R Arm     9            17       
                                             L/R Leg     13           21       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LRM-5                                        RT        2         1         2.00
Thumper Art. Cannon                          LT        5         7        10.00
Medium Laser                                 RA        3         1         1.00
@LRM-5 (24)                                  CT        -         1         1.00
@Thumper Cannon (20)                         LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 31

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      6    Points: 11
5j         1       2       1       0      2     0   Structure:  5
Special Abilities: ARTTC, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

 

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