Available tonnage after engine, gyro, structure, and cockpit

[carlisimo]

Hi everyone, no *new* information here, but I made graphs showing how much tonnage you have left to play with after taking into account your engine, gyro, internal structure, and cockpit.  It makes it easy to visualize why we have issues with the Cicada, Charger, and Banshee, among others.  One thing I hadn't realized is that the Marauder, Goliath, and Battlemaster have the same tonnage to spend on weapons, armor, and heat sinks.  Click for a larger version, if I've done this right.

In order, the charts show:
1) standard everything (3025)
2) light fusion engines
3) XL fusion engines, standard internal structure
4) XL fusion engines, endo steel (basically your modern Clan mechs)
5) Std. and XL engines on the same cacophonous chart

[Sartris]

a nice visual. i think most people have a vague understanding of how big engines sap available weight, but it's cool to see exactly how those curves work

[Speedbump]

These are great. I'd love to see XXL engines or XL Gyros added into the mix, but I appreciate that you could quickly approach a combination nightmare. I also think the charts could do with a second image that is zoomed in at that light end of the spectrum as having to take the Banshee and Atlas into account means that the differences between the Wasp and Locust are hard to see even in the larger images, but that's very much nitpicking. Thank you for sharing this.

[SCC]

So I actually picked up a spreadsheet at some point that's got the same sort of information, it doesn't allow for structure changes, but covers SFE, LFE, XLE and XXL along with JJ and lots of pretty colors that you need to figure out

[idea weenie]

My stunt was to just make a single spreadsheet tab, with several options at the bottom for engine type, internal structure type, Gyro type, max armor (or not), jump jets (or not), etc.

From there, it would see which of the Mechs had the most available tonnage, and list that number below the speed.

Very nice charts though, helps us to see exactly where the curves are for a variety of tonnages and Mech speeds.

[Weirdo]

These charts are REALLY cool. Would it be possible to create similar ones for aerospace fighters?

[carlisimo]

These charts are REALLY cool. Would it be possible to create similar ones for aerospace fighters?

In theory, sure… but I know nothing about aerospace.  I don’t suppose it’s in the Techmanual?

[AlphaMirage]

It should be very similar Im pretty sure the biggest difference is that the movement is +2 but ASF use the same engine masses

[Wolf72]

In theory, sure… but I know nothing about aerospace.  I don’t suppose it’s in the Techmanual?

Yup. aw-poop, would give you page numbers but I don't feel like opening up a pdf and watching my computer sputter along ... considering getting a phys copy soon-ish (months? a year?)

[Weirdo]

In theory, sure… but I know nothing about aerospace.  I don’t suppose it’s in the Techmanual?

Yup, it's all there. :thumbsup:

[carlisimo]

Yeah I’ll give it a shot.  What are the most common combinations of engines and whatever else goes into aerospace fighters?

[Weirdo]

Same engine types as mechs, I *think* they only have the one structure type, so it might be viable to throw in small cockpits as a variable if you want.

[Daryk]

SI is weightless for ASF.

[carlisimo]

Aerospace fighters look fairly simple.  Same fusion engines as mechs (I'm definitely going to ignore Compact engines - does anyone care about IS Light engines?).  The version of the TechManual I have doesn't even offer small cockpits as an option, just your standard 3-ton cockpit, so that's easy.  There doesn't seem to be any equivalent to gyros. 

Do fuel loads vary?  I'll leave it out unless 99% of aerospace fighters happen to carry exactly 2 tons of it.  Note that a 12/18 5-ton ASF with a standard fusion engine could carry a half-ton of fuel and have no weight capacity left over for weapons or armor, and unless anyone objects I'm going to include that in the chart.  Do I need to include fighters faster than 12/18? 

[Daryk]

Only if you include XL engines, really.

[pokefan548]

Aerospace fighters look fairly simple.  Same fusion engines as mechs (I'm definitely going to ignore Compact engines - does anyone care about IS Light engines?).  The version of the TechManual I have doesn't even offer small cockpits as an option, just your standard 3-ton cockpit, so that's easy.  There doesn't seem to be any equivalent to gyros. 

Do fuel loads vary?  I'll leave it out unless 99% of aerospace fighters happen to carry exactly 2 tons of it.  Note that a 12/18 5-ton ASF with a standard fusion engine could carry a half-ton of fuel and have no weight capacity left over for weapons or armor, and unless anyone objects I'm going to include that in the chart.  Do I need to include fighters faster than 12/18?

Fuel is generally variable enough that I wouldn't bother, and from memory small aerospace cockpits are a TO thing. If we're looking for extra variables, might want to throw in bombs. There are some combinations that are definitely more efficient for bombers than others with regards to max payload, the resulting thrust loss, and overall efficiency.

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

Good. Although I knew 75 is the best weight for 5/8 if you have an XL engine, but it nails this. I don't think that everyone can afford such mechs if all you could buy right now is a 55 tons mech, but...

Anyway it makes clear that why lights are bad after jihad and are only viable as the cheap and expendable unit. Why you need for a light, where a medium could do better if you want the best mech with the walk speed of x and don't care for the cost? But if you need to consider the cost, lights are still have uses. Even if it downs too easily, but you don't expect much for such a cheap unit after all. Perhaps 10/15 still needs to be a light(unless you just want the speed of 10 by jump, which is possible with a 55 tonner+partial wings+8 Improved Jump Jets), but not the bug mech class.

Fuel is not the same but usually most ASFs I have seen are have the fuel reserve of 4 to 5 tons, unless for the light class which are usually 2 to 3(and it can't be helped for its light total tonnage). If I remember correctly, the TW rules generally assumed that an ASF is expected to have 5 tons of fuel by default, so if you want to make a custom ASF on your game you better consider that it has 5 tons of fuel by default(I don't think that it is a must, though). But anyway you better have much more than a LAM's default 1 ton of fuel tank, if you expect the ASF to fly.

[Sir Chaos]

Same engine types as mechs, I *think* they only have the one structure type, so it might be viable to throw in small cockpits as a variable if you want.

I thought small cockpits are just a flat 1 ton of mass saved compared to standard cockpit, regardless of unit weight? That would kind of make it pointless to use them as a variable, wouldn´t it?

[SCC]

For ASF the charts will be virtually the same as 'Mechs, the lack of a gyro or structure and the addition of fuel won't change things that much, so just use the 'Mech charts.

[Weirdo]

Completely untrue. A fighter and a mech of the same mass that both have 6/9 movement ratings will have very different engine ratings and thus different engine mass.

[Charistoph]

Indeed.  A Centurion uses the same engine as a Corsair, but the Corsair carries 5 tons more Armor (which the Centurion cannot even carry), 6 more Heat Sinks, and a more focused firepower setup.

[Carbon Elasmobranch]

Completely untrue. A fighter and a mech of the same mass that both have 6/9 movement ratings will have very different engine ratings and thus different engine mass.

That 6/9 movement rating also means something very different for the ASF.

'Mech: I move a cautious 6 hexes!

ASF: Yeah, best to play it safe. I throttle up to just Velocity 4 and fly around the ground map twice so I can keep covering the unit.