Author Topic: Aviation Pictures: A-Seven-th Thread--CorsAirin' Through Time and Airspace  (Read 40015 times)

chanman

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is cobbling together intact chassis parts from damaged aircraft something normal for the airforce, or is this something they're doing because of the low number of F-35's they currently have in service?

(also.. did they ever find that missing F-35?)

They aren't that low. They already have more F-35s than Strike Eagles or Raptors. I suspect it's much more of an experiment for the salvage and repair teams to figure out how feasible it is and what unexpected obstacles they encounter. Given the number of F-35s the USAF has /is getting, more will invariably be damaged, so they might as well find out what degree of damage can be salvaged between different airframes and what to write off now that they have the chance to try.

chanman

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I think this is the last of Taiwan's F-16s to go through the Block 70/F-16V upgrade process. The whole test flights in yellow primer, interestingly, mostly reminds me of the PLA, or at least it feels that way since test/new aircraft there seem to often get photographed while flying around in primer.





MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Why is it a two-seater?
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

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glitterboy2098

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Why is it a two-seater?
the V's are upgrades of both the one seater F-16A's and the two seater F-16B's. they upgraded all of their old F-16's, and apparently are buying another 66 new build aircraft of the same specs.

(they wanted F-35's, but cost and export red tape meant they couldn't, so they settled for upgrading the F-16's and ordering more to replace their old F-5's)
« Last Edit: 05 December 2023, 19:47:22 by glitterboy2098 »

chanman

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Have a freshly restored Corsair

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6jh0-a2ju0

truetanker

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I need to "bump" this up a bit...

BUMP!


LT Pete "Maverick" Mitchell and LTJG Nick “Goose” Bradshaw

While on exersices, the Joe team encounters an enemy Viper Pilot in manouvers questionable to say...

TT
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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The Pepsi dispenser is jammed again?
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Cannonshop

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"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

glitterboy2098

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Daryk

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ALL the memes! ;D

Failure16

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Have a freshly restored Corsair

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6jh0-a2ju0

You, sir, are a man of taste and good-breeding.

Hmm. VBF-10 tail markings, during the Okinawa campaign, a nice choice and a little esoteric. Not sure about the roundel around the star (which was historically darker than the airframe if it appeared at all during that timeframe), but everyone involved did light-years better than I could ever do! Congratulations and my thanks to everyone that was a part of that magnificent feat of restoration. Something to be proud of, and I am very glad to see it.
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth,                                And through villages of ether
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.                   Oh, my crucifixion comes
When I needed something good.                                         One day we'll reveal the truth,                    Will you sing my hallelujah?
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.      That one will die before he gets there.       Will you tell me when it's done?
But I'd think of something better if I could
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Daryk

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That was indeed awesome, but I'll say that engine definitely sounded 73 years old after landing...

Cannonshop

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That was indeed awesome, but I'll say that engine definitely sounded 73 years old after landing...

considering nobody has made one of those in a lifetime?  (big radial engines like that)...
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Since I hang out on a lot of forums and Discord servers that are populated heavily by people who are younger than I am, it's nice being somewhere where I can make a reference to something from the 80s and actually have people be familiar with it.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

chanman

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considering nobody has made one of those in a lifetime?  (big radial engines like that)...

At least the Double Wasp had a long and prolific post-war life, staying in production to 1960. Probably makes for an easier restoration and better parts availability than most other big pistons

chanman

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A farewell to the Buffalo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBSWZtMS-sw

de Havilland Canada's STOL aircraft really are flying utility trucks

Daryk

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Interesting!  Thanks for the link! :)

chanman

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Gloster F.5/34 - very Zero-like, including the vertical stabilizer being set notably forward of the horizontal stabilizer. You can view it as fairly comprable to the Hurricane - part-fabric, maneuverable, just a bit over 300 mph top speed, and with better visibility with the early bubble canopy. Of course, first flight was also 9 months after the Spitfire. In the end, I think the Hurricane was the correct choice, and using the Merlin engine for both Spits and Hurricanes probably simplified life a lot.

The Merlin, of course, also had plenty of room to grow. I'm not sure how much additional room for improvement was left in the Bristol Mercury considering the design dates back to 1925 while the Merlin was brand new in 1936. Interestingly, a very similar limitation the Zero also had.





Dewoitine D.520 the highest performance of France's fighters entering WW2 with a very racy profile. Famed British test pilot Eric Brown did not like it at all. Apparently something about the fuel tank design gave it unpredictable stability. My guess from that description would be a lack of internal divisions allowing fuel to slosh around when partially full. Still absolutely gorgeous though.




The kinda hapless, but still good looking Morane-Saulnier M.S.406. It had a light armament (1 cannon + 2 machine guns, all in the nose), good maneuverability, but lackluster speed due to an underpowered engine.





Bloch MB.151/152 one of the less successful French fighters. Armament was unreliable (an issue common to early-war cannon), engine underpowered, range short, and maneuverability lacking.


chanman

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Clean-as-hell Dutch Viper


Sadly, I suspect the flamboyant display paint jobs might go away with low-observable (stealthy) designs made with the assumption that they'll always be coated in RAM

Daryk

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The flight demonstration teams will always be flamboyant... it's not like they see combat...

DOC_Agren

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The flight demonstration teams will always be flamboyant... it's not like they see combat...
You hope
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Given the cost of stealth tech, I suspect that there will always be air forces that decide they still need to have at least some cheap planes in active duty.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

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Cannonshop

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Given the cost of stealth tech, I suspect that there will always be air forces that decide they still need to have at least some cheap planes in active duty.

The stealth tech isn't based on some unobtainium super-element that only exists in a few kilograms/year of frantic mining efforts, they're so costly because production is limited and economies of scale can't be implemented.  (either because they're not worth much in the civilian market, or national security concerns of the country where the stuff's being produced.)

IOW it's not a fixed cost, and the source isn't going to be exhausted, the price comes from not producing nearly enough of it to reduce the cost.

Once upon a time, Aluminium was worth more per volume (nevermind ton) than Gold.  It was a scientific plaything and status symbol for the wealthy.  Napoleon's field kit/dining set was made from it, and it was an extravagant display of wealth.

forward to just after the 1st World War and it was a cheap replacement for tin in little knock-off knicknacks.  The difference was that it was worth it to the manufacturers to invest in mass production of the stuff from Bauxite.

Stealth materials have a different problem;  there's literally no market outside high-end military applications for the stuff, and much of it is classified because it's 'stealthy' (defeats radar on certain bands and in certain configurations), so there's no driving market to make it cheaper and a good reason for manufacturers to keep the price of making it high (to make a profit off something with a very limited market that is relatively low volume.)

after all, who would really consent to producing themselves out of a job?  especially one that has a decent payout?
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Sabelkatten

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I don’t think production volume is the only factor. RAMs - as far as I know - are quite finicky materials. So even if you get the material cost down making something out of it is still likely to cost a whole lot.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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I don’t think production volume is the only factor. RAMs - as far as I know - are quite finicky materials. So even if you get the material cost down making something out of it is still likely to cost a whole lot.

Exactly.  Everything I've ever heard about stealth aircraft starting with the F-117's declassification when I was a kid has always said that it's very demanding and requires a ton of extra work to keep functioning correctly.  The commonly cited figure being that having a single screw out of alignment would triple a B-2's radar profile.

And there will be roles, even combat roles, where stealth simply isn't necessary.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Cannonshop

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I don’t think production volume is the only factor. RAMs - as far as I know - are quite finicky materials. So even if you get the material cost down making something out of it is still likely to cost a whole lot.

Are you familiar with the Practice Effect?  The more of something you make, the better you end up being able to make it (all other factors being equal).

that is, your percentage of defects drop, the more of something you make (also you develop more efficient processes and procedures the more you work with something).

"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Sabelkatten

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Certainly.

However if material A needs 1mm tolerances and material B needs 0.1mm tolerances material A will always be cheaper than B (assuming everything else equal). The difference can be reduced, but it's extremely unlikely to disappear.

Cannonshop

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Certainly.

However if material A needs 1mm tolerances and material B needs 0.1mm tolerances material A will always be cheaper than B (assuming everything else equal). The difference can be reduced, but it's extremely unlikely to disappear.

That's true, however, that's relative to those materials, not to the general market.  if you get your efficiencies of scale going, .1mm tolerancing becomes the average, which in turn becomes your new baseline price.

Think on it this way: levels of malfunction that were common with bolt action rifles of the late 1800s are, today, unacceptable with semi-automatic rifles.

once upon a time, 3 MOA was considered adequate for sharpshooting and even competition, you can buy a rifle with 1.5 to 2 MOA over the counter at your local sporting goods store for proportionally (when you equalize for inflation) less, and it weighs less, is more reliable, and requires less active care (and in the case of modern semi-automatics like the AR-15, it's reliable under harsher conditions.)

This is the refinement that being able to leverage efficiencies of scale gets you. Your tolerances become tighter because your process becomes better, eventually the looser tolerance becomes unacceptable (quality improves).

The LESS of something you make, the less this happens.  The learning process simply doesn't occur at the same rate.  Ammunition from 1917 from the BEST arsenals of that era, wouldn't pass QC at even a second-rate modern manufacturer.

The same is shown in the automobile market, unless you honestly believe a 1957 [insert brand here] is a better car than a 2023 Honda.

(Hint: its not, build quality is significantly better on the newer machine, breakdowns that were common on car in the 1950s  are actually pretty rare today-particularly if you compare rates with the same level of maintenance from the owner).

doing things is how you advance technology.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

chanman

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YF-4E - this airframe was the prototype for the RF-4C recce version and F-4E variant, as well as canards and FBW. Details: https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/197971/mcdonnell-douglas-yf-4e-phantom-ii/






Here come the Northrops. YA-9 demonstrator


B-2 over YF-23


Some great YF-23 shots, including a few I haven't seen before





B-2




Vought V-507. Their entry into the post-F-111B VFX program that led to the Tomcat. The side looks almost Tornado-like, and the semi-conformal Sparrows look very Tornado ADV-like



Raptor time

chanman

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KF-21 demo from a couple months ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvQdrbQoKy8

 

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