What would you argue to be the most illogical decision made by an IS Leader?

[Metallgewitter]

Well in terms of acting Roderick seems to be more proactive. Trilian seems to be ok with her realm fragmenting or at the very least doesn't seem to have the desire to take the breakaway states back and rather concentrates on the most important parts. Which in turn leads to more "resentment" from the fiefs that have build up.  Of course the most interesting bits will be how these fiefs will act in future or if someof them get the boot. That and I assume we might get a possible cooperation between Nikol and Trilian in dividing the Wolf Empire. Or some Lyran Margrave screws the situation up by trying to take advantage of the situation and the Lyrans piss of the Mariks again

[Caesar Steiner for Archon]

Well in terms of acting Roderick seems to be more proactive. Trilian seems to be ok with her realm fragmenting or at the very least doesn't seem to have the desire to take the breakaway states back and rather concentrates on the most important parts. Which in turn leads to more "resentment" from the fiefs that have build up.  Of course the most interesting bits will be how these fiefs will act in future or if someof them get the boot. That and I assume we might get a possible cooperation between Nikol and Trilian in dividing the Wolf Empire. Or some Lyran Margrave screws the situation up by trying to take advantage of the situation and the Lyrans piss of the Mariks again

Well, Ludwig's already taken full control of the Marik border and he's pushing into Wolf space now that Bolan is back in Lyran hands, so between that and how the LCAF is positioned, it seems like more action against the Wolf Empire beyond "let Ludwig retake Dixie on his own, and we'll let the authors hint that the Lyrans have shaved a few more planets off screen" is her plan. She sent Roderick to Arcturus to meet with Regis so I think she's probably counting on hammering out a political solution there.

I think the states that got a lot of page time are relatively safe for the time being. You don't spill as much ink as they have on the Tamar Pact, AML or Jiyi's Falcons (ESPECIALLY the Pact) just to wipe them out when the timeline moves forward. I do think the ARLC's not going to be around for long, but that's because the writers in TR didn't even bother to pretend Callandre and the Hounds weren't part of the Commonwealth.

But anyway, from a narrative standpoint, while they aren't 100% on the same page, they weren't actively clashing over priorities when we saw them in HotW or anything like that. Overall, passing the throne to Roderick would just make me wonder what the point of all this had even been, since he's still the same character he was when he started going by Steiner again. Maybe that's a commentary on how little face time that Trillian and Roderick have had in recent years?

[Church14]

I’m half expecting a Lyran General to come back to Trillian and go “have you seen the empire? My [RCT OF WRITER’S CHOICE] just took thirty Empire worlds. They’re practically giving them away.”

[CJC070]

Hopefully the Lyrans will get a spot on the upcoming “iKhans Eyes Only” since we only really saw the response to the recreation of the Tamar Pact.  It also show that Trillian is not as irresponsible as we have seen.  She could be irresponsible just playing devils advocate.

[Caesar Steiner for Archon]

At minimum, we better get an explanation for what the Isle of Skye is about. They've been teasing that one for well over a year at this point.

[BrianDavion]

Well, Ludwig's already taken full control of the Marik border and he's pushing into Wolf space now that Bolan is back in Lyran hands, so between that and how the LCAF is positioned, it seems like more action against the Wolf Empire beyond "let Ludwig retake Dixie on his own, and we'll let the authors hint that the Lyrans have shaved a few more planets off screen" is her plan. She sent Roderick to Arcturus to meet with Regis so I think she's probably counting on hammering out a political solution there.

I think the states that got a lot of page time are relatively safe for the time being. You don't spill as much ink as they have on the Tamar Pact, AML or Jiyi's Falcons (ESPECIALLY the Pact) just to wipe them out when the timeline moves forward. I do think the ARLC's not going to be around for long, but that's because the writers in TR didn't even bother to pretend Callandre and the Hounds weren't part of the Commonwealth.

But anyway, from a narrative standpoint, while they aren't 100% on the same page, they weren't actively clashing over priorities when we saw them in HotW or anything like that. Overall, passing the throne to Roderick would just make me wonder what the point of all this had even been, since he's still the same character he was when he started going by Steiner again. Maybe that's a commentary on how little face time that Trillian and Roderick have had in recent years?

I've theorized that the ARLC and the Tamar pact may be the genisis of new "marches" for the Lyrans.

[Metallgewitter]

I’m half expecting a Lyran General to come back to Trillian and go “have you seen the empire? My [RCT OF WRITER’S CHOICE] just took thirty Empire worlds. They’re practically giving them away.”

Redemption Rites hinted at one Lyran margrave (no name given) actually visitng Wolfs's Dragoons for a possible contract. I would wager that they hinted in return that the Wolf Empire is open for conquest. After all if the Lyrans take on a few worlds and maybe smash one of the defending clusters it makes the job for the Dragoons (and by extension the Mariks) much easier

[Caesar Steiner for Archon]

Redemption Rites hinted at one Lyran margrave (no name given) actually visitng Wolfs's Dragoons for a possible contract. I would wager that they hinted in return that the Wolf Empire is open for conquest. After all if the Lyrans take on a few worlds and maybe smash one of the defending clusters it makes the job for the Dragoons (and by extension the Mariks) much easier

There's only two Margraves left after the collapse of Arc-Royal Theater, so it's either Ludwig Steiner (who has already moved into Wolf Empire space with the capture of Dixie) or Gareth Dinesen, who is all the way on the other side of the Commonwealth.

I've theorized that the ARLC and the Tamar pact may be the genisis of new "marches" for the Lyrans.

The ARLC has stressed that they're still Lyrans, currently all worlds that used to be in Lyran space and is surrounded by Lyran territory on three sides, so she fits really neatly into the existing structure. Eventually Trillian and Callandre bury the hatchet, Trillian names Callandre as the Margrave of Arc-Royal, which means she continues to have the authority to do whatever she wants but her actions are sanctioned by Tharkad. Metanarratively, it also completes her transition from early career Morgan Kell to late career Morgan Kell, who was also briefly the Margrave of Arc-Royal in 3067. She's moving out of the concerns of "how do I shoot more better?" to "how do I run a government more better?" already and that would formalize the change.

Tamar I think get recognized as an Archonette. Everyone wins with that one; Regis can say that her regime's legitimacy is recognized while Trillian can spin it as a necessary independent action. Unlike the Vesper Marches, the Pact hasn't pulled down any Lyran flags, only Falcon ones. Neither military seems to want to fight each other and declaring an Archonette would put that concern out of everyone's mind and make them at least allies.

[Metallgewitter]

Wasn't Dixie part of the League when the mercenary kerfuffle happened and the Lyrans managed to take the planet? Or am I remembering wrong? Might have to reeread that section again

[BrianDavion]

There's only two Margraves left after the collapse of Arc-Royal Theater, so it's either Ludwig Steiner (who has already moved into Wolf Empire space with the capture of Dixie) or Gareth Dinesen, who is all the way on the other side of the Commonwealth.

The ARLC has stressed that they're still Lyrans, currently all worlds that used to be in Lyran space and is surrounded by Lyran territory on three sides, so she fits really neatly into the existing structure. Eventually Trillian and Callandre bury the hatchet, Trillian names Callandre as the Margrave of Arc-Royal, which means she continues to have the authority to do whatever she wants but her actions are sanctioned by Tharkad. Metanarratively, it also completes her transition from early career Morgan Kell to late career Morgan Kell, who was also briefly the Margrave of Arc-Royal in 3067. She's moving out of the concerns of "how do I shoot more better?" to "how do I run a government more better?" already and that would formalize the change.

Tamar I think get recognized as an Archonette. Everyone wins with that one; Regis can say that her regime's legitimacy is recognized while Trillian can spin it as a necessary independent action. Unlike the Vesper Marches, the Pact hasn't pulled down any Lyran flags, only Falcon ones. Neither military seems to want to fight each other and declaring an Archonette would put that concern out of everyone's mind and make them at least allies.

right which suggests we're thinking the same things essentially. the Lyran Commonwealth as orginanally presented had effectively 2 marches, the (Original) Tamar Pact, and the Federation of Skye. these regions occasionally cropped up whenever the LC needed to have some narrative internal bickering etc. We all know Skye, but there was also shinnagens from the Tamar pact when the FRR was being formed.
The original Tamar pact is no more, consumed by clan wolf, and Skye is no longer part of the LC. The LC from a narrative POV could really use some "march lords" and while they've tried with some of the rogue archonettes etc formed during the jihad and dark ages etc. IMHO it just hasn't worked because on a narrative level these places and people are just random names. the Tamar pact and the ARLC however as "quasi independant marches" in the LC would be perfect. people'd CARE about them.

[Caesar Steiner for Archon]

Wasn't Dixie part of the League when the mercenary kerfuffle happened and the Lyrans managed to take the planet? Or am I remembering wrong? Might have to reeread that section again

Dixie was in Wolf space, but the League was planning on trying to take it. You're thinking of Bolan. And yeah, retaking Bolan antagonized the League, but it was still a good move to retake it. Having your people being greeted as liberators plays REALLY well for someone who is so badly in need of more PR victories as Trillian is.

(Also they renamed the Melissa Steiner Memorial Academy to the Jeremy Brett Military Academy so they had it coming).

[RanFelsnerAFFS]

the Lyran Commonwealth as orginanally presented had effectively 2 marches, the (Original) Tamar Pact, and the Federation of Skye.

Well, actually three... don't forget the protectorate of Donegal

[OatsAndHall]

Hanse Davion and the Marik body-double scheme was pretty stupid, IMO. The ramifications of Joshua Marik-wannabe being discovered far outweighed just being honest about his condition and his death. Plus, Hanse put the burden of that operation on his son when he died.

[Cannonshop]

Hanse Davion and the Marik body-double scheme was pretty stupid, IMO. The ramifications of Joshua Marik-wannabe being discovered far outweighed just being honest about his condition and his death. Plus, Hanse put the burden of that operation on his son when he died.

Yah, that was the fox being...not so foxy...like, at all.

One must wonder if his 'sudden' heart attack hadn't been preceded by a low-intensity stroke or three.  My stepfather, before he died, suffered several and by the time his heart failed, he could barely speak, but before he got to that point, he definitely started showing behavior changes and issues with his judgment after the first one.

so maybe Hans had a minor stroke that was mild enough it went unnoticed (or was easily concealed) before he made THAT decision.

[OatsAndHall]

Yah, that was the fox being...not so foxy...like, at all.

One must wonder if his 'sudden' heart attack hadn't been preceded by a low-intensity stroke or three.  My stepfather, before he died, suffered several and by the time his heart failed, he could barely speak, but before he got to that point, he definitely started showing behavior changes and issues with his judgment after the first one.

so maybe Hans had a minor stroke that was mild enough it went unnoticed (or was easily concealed) before he made THAT decision.

Yup, a medical condition could have explained it. Unfortunately, the decision was played off as a measure to keep the peace and the manufacturing capabilities of the FWL in the fiction. I get it, they needed a catalyst for some IS strife, post Clan-invasion, but it just seems like a poor choice/poor story-telling.

[Minemech]

It is plausible that Hanse had an undiagnosed heart and dental condition that led to ministrokes. It would have to be extremely subtle. It would be odd since he should have had top notch treatment, but he himself may have undervalued its implications if discovered. 

[BrianDavion]

it's more likely the plan was simply one of a dozen Hanse had cooked up and likely would have been scrapped long before reaching fruition. hell it's possiable Hanse wasn't seriously considering it but kept it on the backburner as a possiability and a MIIO agent who championed it managed to push it through

[VanVelding]

I got the impression that the Joshua Marik duplicate was a contingency in case Joshua took a turn for the worse and Hanse needed a few days of breathing room to inform Thomas Marik*. In most cases where Joshua might have died, Hanse wouldn't have even needed Gemini(terrible operation name).

I also wonder what Melissa did with the scheme in the year or two she was running things.

Victor just made the rookie mistakes of thinking that since he had a tool he should use it and using a short-term operation as an indefinite-term operation.

[BrianDavion]

so here's one, not nuked Malvina Hazen and her Mongols, if the Jade Falcons are going to dial things up to 11 every time you so much as resist, you might as well start throwing nukes to resist.

[Metallgewitter]

so here's one, not nuked Malvina Hazen and her Mongols, if the Jade Falcons are going to dial things up to 11 every time you so much as resist, you might as well start throwing nukes to resist.

Or if not using nukes you can always fall back to chemical warfare as Malvina had no qualms of poisoning worlds if they resisted. But the Lyrans were probably "too nice" for that and the Republic...They make Stone a Blake sleeper agent but then he doesn't resort to Blakist tactics? Uh-huh. That's why I kind of miss the alternate timeline where Stone returns and becomes the mad man that leads the Republic on a great Crusade to rebuild his state to it's former glory or even more

[OatsAndHall]

Kat Steiner's power-grab could be viewed as illogical, even though it was quite calculated. IMO, it would've been easier to arrange for her brother's death given his heavy involvement in fighting the Clans. With him out of the way, her political talents would've made it easy for her to take over the entirety of the Fed Commonwealth. The fact that she couldn't see the potential of a civil war was quite short-sighted.

[Caesar Steiner for Archon]

There's also lots of ways she could have contrived an eligibility to be First Prince, but the fact she didn't have it in the first place really makes me wonder what Hanse and Melissa were thinking. I know it's been said repeatedly how badly thought-out the FedCom government was but... damn, you let your one qualified heir get shot at all the time and you aren't even having your backup do office work for Aunt Lisa?

[BrianDavion]

There's also lots of ways she could have contrived an eligibility to be First Prince, but the fact she didn't have it in the first place really makes me wonder what Hanse and Melissa were thinking. I know it's been said repeatedly how badly thought-out the FedCom government was but... damn, you let your one qualified heir get shot at all the time and you aren't even having your backup do office work for Aunt Lisa?

I mean we all know the real reason for this is because FASA during this time period basicly didn't seem to read their own sourcebooks. Funny thing is when this inelligibility was pointed out during the writing of the FCCW SB, they just wrote it off with "meh posession is nine tenths of the law" when they could have much more easily written that  Hanse amended the consisution to remove the requirement.

[Metallgewitter]

There's also lots of ways she could have contrived an eligibility to be First Prince, but the fact she didn't have it in the first place really makes me wonder what Hanse and Melissa were thinking. I know it's been said repeatedly how badly thought-out the FedCom government was but... damn, you let your one qualified heir get shot at all the time and you aren't even having your backup do office work for Aunt Lisa?

Probably thought that Peter would become the next in line should Victor fall in battle (after all Melissa was still young when Victor became eligable toi actually take the throne of the Fed Com so there might be a precuation right there. If heir 1 falls, take the reign until No 2 is ready). And Melissa was very able to lead the Fed Com through troubled times (until she got blown to bits)

[BrianDavion]

I mean while we're discussing it, KSD's hatred of all things military always seemed a little weird,  while we make a deal about the fedsuns military requirements for the principality, the LC also had a draft, no matter what side she embraced, her COMPLETE lack of anything remotely resmbling military service makes ZERO sense.

[tassa_kay]

I mean while we're discussing it, KSD's hatred of all things military always seemed a little weird,  while we make a deal about the fedsuns military requirements for the principality, the LC also had a draft, no matter what side she embraced, her COMPLETE lack of anything remotely resmbling military service makes ZERO sense.

The role of Archon does not require one to have served in the military. And Katherine is not the only Archon not to have served. Katherine can also loathe the military and still recognize that she requires the military to accomplish her goals. Makes sense to me.

[Maelwys]

Archon maybe didn't, but Archon_princess did (pretty sure), so its really weird that they didn't set her down and be like "look, if these Clanners kill victor, and they're killing lots of people right about now, then you're the heir. And the heir requires some military service. We're not putting you in combat, or a MW, or even infantry if you don't want, how about Quartermaster on Tharkad where you'll learn how to make sure that the parties are appropriately supplied with caviar."

Unless they just decided to skip her and make one of the others the heir.

Which may explain why she did what she did.

[AlphaMirage]

I do think Katherine was meant to be skipped and/or married to Kai/Hohiro to get another throne in a future Succession crisis. My fan theory is that Melissa was on to her being DD-A+ but wouldn't have expected an assassination attempt.

[beachhead1985]

*Looks at the formation of the Republic.*

*to self*: "No, you're better than that."

Okay, my two votes are for Victor's decision to try to lie to *Not-Marik* about his kid dying while under his care, and then replace him with a double for one.

And for two: Victor trying to use Katrina's pet assassin against her.

For the stupid thing with the Marik (or not-Marik) kid; this was just a dumb plot device. Chalk it up to Victor's inexperience, his state of mind, with IIRC; Hanse recently dying, if you want, but it was poor judgment front to back.

Thomas was a famously honourable man and there were bound to be negative consequences for lying to him. It's even plausible that his military aid would have continued as a memorial, after the kid died.

But to double-down on that with a rehash of a failed plot from before the 4th SW...Wow. Just wow.

***

As for the Assassin-thing...this was just stupid soap-opera nonsense. It showed a total lack of common sense and Katrina played it out like the straight line it was, Victor lost tons of credibility and gained nothing he couldn't have had from his own means already.

***

As an aside...it seems like we're dunking on Victor here a lot. And we are. And he deserves it.

But he's also the leader we have seen the most of through many of the classic novels, so additional exposure gets him that. But he's also a victim of writing and a product of the mind that formed him; Stackpole.

It's not that Victor comes to us as a well-meaning screw-up, but rather as the bag man for a vast collection of unfortunate tropes that pass for motivation, character and plot development.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Victor suffers heavily from having been Battletech's main protagonist for over a decade and having been featured in a string of novels that were kind of a slump period for the author.