Hanse Davion-class Supercarrier, a carrier deserving the Super name

[Warmind_SR]

I'd made this awhile ago for an AU where the Jihad didn't maul WS quite as badly, and in general was more friendly to the big beauties. Of which, the FedSuns adopted a very carrier-centric doctrine, and outsourced production to the RotS, which in this AU is the main builder for ships over 1.9 Megatons. The design goal for the flagship of the FedSuns fleet, and their CSGs, Carrier Strike Groups, was obvious, and based off the US Navy - Cram as many fighters as possible into the largest ship anyone who wasn't the RotS or CGB could build, a nice, even, two million tonner.

Here is what my mind came up with, me being the mostly optimizing person I am. Yes, I did the math. This thing can indeed carry 1,080 ASFs, a full 18 AeroRegiments in the AFFS

Code: [Select]

Hanse Davion-class Supercarrier
Mass: 2,000,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3064
Mass: 2,000,000
Battle Value: 106,932
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: 57,002,248,000 C-bills

Fuel: 10,000 tons (25,000)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 8
KF Drive Integrity: 39
Heat Sinks: 3,893
Structural Integrity: 85

Armor
    Nose: 438
    Fore Sides: 360/360
    Aft Sides: 321/321
    Aft: 204

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (180)           4 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (180)           4 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (180)           4 Doors   
    Bay 4:  Fighter (180)           4 Doors   
    Bay 5:  Fighter (180)           4 Doors   
    Bay 6:  Fighter (180)           4 Doors   
    Bay 7:  Small Craft (120)       2 Doors   
    Bay 8:  Cargo (210145.0 tons)   1 Door   

Ammunition:
    3,456 rounds of LRM 20 Artemis-capable ammunition (576 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 16
Grav Decks: 4 (150 m, 150 m, 200 m, 200 m)
Escape Pods: 857
Life Boats: 857
Crew:  97 officers, 1318 enlisted/non-rated, 110 gunners, 2760 bay personnel, 504 marines, 256 BA marines     

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
   1,950 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                     Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                               Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (850 Heat)
10 Naval Laser 45                        700  45(450) 45(450) 45(450) 45(450)  Capital Laser
10 Large Laser                           80   8(80)   8(80)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
10 Laser AMS                             70   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
FRS/FLS (1,050 Heat)
10 Naval Laser 45                        700  45(450) 45(450) 45(450) 45(450)  Capital Laser
20 Large Laser                           160  16(160) 16(160)  0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
20 LRM 20+Artemis IV                     120  24(240) 24(240) 24(240)   0(0)   LRM         
    LRM 20 Artemis-capable Ammo (864 shots)
10 Laser AMS                             70   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
RBS/LBS (770 Heat)
10 Naval Laser 45                        700  45(450) 45(450) 45(450) 45(450)  Capital Laser
10 Laser AMS                             70   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
ARS/ALS (1,050 Heat)
10 Naval Laser 45                        700  45(450) 45(450) 45(450) 45(450)  Capital Laser
20 Large Laser                           160  16(160) 16(160)  0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
20 LRM 20+Artemis IV                     120  24(240) 24(240) 24(240)   0(0)   LRM         
    LRM 20 Artemis-capable Ammo (864 shots)
10 Laser AMS                             70   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
Aft (850 Heat)
10 Naval Laser 45                        700  45(450) 45(450) 45(450) 45(450)  Capital Laser
10 Large Laser                           80   8(80)   8(80)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
10 Laser AMS                             70   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
   


[AlphaMirage]

I mean does the AFFC even have 18 ASF Regiments? Seems absolutely overkill compared to peer threats. You could probably take down a half dozen Clans, if they were all at the same jump point. Also you're super low on fuel and sustainment. You'd drain half the tank in one super sortie

[Lagrange]

It takes 23 minutes to launch all ASF and 30 minutes to launch all smallcraft which seems impractically long in many combats.

[Dragon Cat]

The armaments as well seem off (I don't know your timeline thread and it is outsourced) the FedSuns appeared to be more focused on NAC 20-35s, Medium NGauss and Medium NPPC

Might be an opportunity to slim the fighters down, mix up weapons and add fuel

[Warmind_SR]

Alpha and Lagrange, for this I'm assuming they would, and the ship as is ideally uses its ASF wing to strike, and doesn't get in "line combat" unless things get really bad

Dragon, thanks for pointing that out. I thought the post-Clan Lyrans were more NAC focused? But with that in mind I should redesign to accommodate the Davion Autocannon Love I forgot about.

[Dragon Cat]

I'd have said post the Clan invasion Davion is more Medium NGauss and Medium NPPC for their WarShips anyway the Avalon has a few already as well as a bunch of AR-10s (maximum engagement range I guess, which would probably work well on that too). Autocannons seem restricted more to ground forces than WarShips then again the Avalon and Fox both have a few of each.

[Lagrange]

Alpha and Lagrange, for this I'm assuming they would, and the ship as is ideally uses its ASF wing to strike, and doesn't get in "line combat" unless things get really bad

3/5 is typically to slow to avoid engagements, unfortunately. 

[Retry]

Is the 23 minute deployment time even practical?  Seems like you'd have fighters trying to return to the carrier to rearm, refuel, or repair while you're still deploying the first wave...

[Liam's Ghost]

I'll be honest, it's hard to judge just how practical this ship would be without seeing what ships are supporting it, how it's being supplied, and what opponents it can expect to regularly face. It feels like it would be part of a very naval heavy setting, like closer to SLDF scale fleets rather than more familiar current canon ones.

Is the 23 minute deployment time even practical?  Seems like you'd have fighters trying to return to the carrier to rearm, refuel, or repair while you're still deploying the first wave...

Depending on the situation and exactly where you're launching from, the flight group might be able to just sit and drift without burning fuel while the rest launch and forms up.

Allegedly 23 minutes would be a decent time for a modern real world carrier to launch a much smaller strike.

[Liam's Ghost]

But regardless, some suggestions on the design itself. I'd say you need more fuel. Personally, I'd quadruple the fuel load so you can turn around fighters more quickly and without immediately relying on underway replenishment.

Also, the big one for me, your laser AMS and heatsinks. I would strongly advise you to double the number of AMS you have now, switch to double heatsinks, and give yourself a lot of them. Like, A LOT. Like bare minimum, you want 25,200 heat dissipation, or enough to fire an AMS bay 180 times.

The reason is this, if we assume that this supercarrier is practical, then we have to assume it will face a peer opponent. Heat sinks are effectively ammo for laser AMS. They get to fire on every missile salvo that enters their firing arc, but each volley generates heat. If you exhaust your available heatsinks, your AMS can't fire anymore that round.

If we assume that a fighter complement of 1080 fighters is reasonable, then you need to be able to repel a massed missile strike from 1080 fighters, or 180 volleys of anti-ship weapons launched by 180 squadrons of fighters. Twenty laser AMS in each arc with the necessary heatsinks to fire them 180 times should make you effectively impervious to such a strike. It will also work against bearing-only capital missile attacks.

Also, you're going to want screen launchers. Probably a bunch of them. Even if the fighters can't hit you with missiles, a massed force of fighters can still tear you apart with guns. Screen launchers can serve to obscure you from the enemy and make it harder for them to shoot at you.

You CANNOT count on your escorts to prevent the enemy's fighters from reaching your carrier. Things move too fast in space combat, and fighters could conceivably get through your entire defensive sphere in a single round. So once again, screen launchers. In this situation, a carrier caught is a carrier sunk.

But, you know, still have escorts. Lots of escorts providing overlapping fire to protect your flagship and kill as many of the enemy's fighters as you possibly can in preparation for the next battle. Describing what makes a good anti-air escort is another topic entirely, but visualize as many naval lasers and large lasers as can fit on a hull.

[Liam's Ghost]

Okay, one last thing. Aerofighter strikes against mobile opponents are inherently short ranged, because fighters don't have the fuel or fuel efficiency for really long range battles. If you launch from too far away against a maneuvering opponent, you will either only get one pass at them, or your fighters might run out of fuel trying to chase an enemy with bigger tanks and the will to use them.

So don't neglect the more traditional capital weapons, because you're likely to need them.

[AlphaMirage]

But regardless, some suggestions on the design itself. I'd say you need more fuel. Personally, I'd quadruple the fuel load so you can turn around fighters more quickly and without immediately relying on underway replenishment.

-Snip-

But, you know, still have escorts. Lots of escorts providing overlapping fire to protect your flagship and kill as many of the enemy's fighters as you possibly can in preparation for the next battle. Describing what makes a good anti-air escort is another topic entirely, but visualize as many naval lasers and large lasers as can fit on a hull.

I think you'd actually need at least 8-12x more, non-combat fuel use is 4 fuel tanks per month plus the large number of parasite dropships that might need fuel as well. Unless you wanted one of those to be an Aqueduct (instead of a combat vessel) and even then you'd drain it quickly. Carrying two Aqueducts of bunkerage is probably safe (52k) but not for sustained ops without resupply.

Best Anti-Fighter Escorts are dropships loaded with mines, capital, and sub-capital missiles that you put between your warships and the incoming air wing or missile swarm interspersed with AMS equipped small gunships to begin whittling away at capital missiles and degrading their accuracy (each point of capital armor lost is +1 to hit). Following that are Destroyer/Frigate class units with Naval Lasers (or medium NPPC/NACs for anti-dropship fire) plus more of the same and standard heavy hitters like PPCs.  Unfortunately the standard Aerospace Attack pattern should be evasive until they are within range so that makes them very difficult to intercept particularly if you are using the velocity based Aerospace combat rules (rather than the 'fighter' maneuver type). You are unlikely to take down even half the incoming fighters and AMS doesn't work against bombs, nuclear or otherwise.

[Dragon Cat]

To be fair if your running a sustained operation in a system then it suggests you have a beachhead to launch from so you could bring in fuel using conventional JumpShips

You wouldn't be using this in a guerilla campaign or as a sole WarShip this would be the flag of a fleet. (If this was the last ship standing It should run, find a pirate point and live to fight another day.)

It does need more fuel and more conventional weapons which will (or probably should) bring down the fighter count which should increase the amount of surplus fuel for the other fighters

[Daryk]

Current carrier operations are discussed in some detail under the "Cyclic Operations" section of this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_United_States_Navy_carrier_air_operations

[AlphaMirage]

To be fair if your running a sustained operation in a system then it suggests you have a beachhead to launch from so you could bring in fuel using conventional JumpShips

You wouldn't be using this in a guerilla campaign or as a sole WarShip this would be the flag of a fleet. (If this was the last ship standing It should run, find a pirate point and live to fight another day.)

I don't know. If you need 1k+ Aerospace fighters to take on a threat in this AU then conventional jumpships are not safe from interdiction. You'd need Warship Armored Freighter Types to be safe from LF-equipped Corvettes or LF-equipped raider Jumpships with Carriers or Missile Boats onboard to threaten them. Unless you expended more Escorts to be safe against it.

Also a 2MT Warship with 16 collars and 1k+ Aerospace fighters is a MASSIVE investment (57 billion for the Ship plus 6.5-16.3 billion for the Air Group plus 1.5 for Small Craft plus personnel). How much of an escort would you need for it? and what would you have left for other Void Fleet or even Ground Force assets?

I shutter to think what kind of opponents it could face (and want to make one).

[Daryk]

It's a Fleet asset, and needs the rest of the Fleet to make sense... ;)

[Retry]

It does sound like an AU with a far larger black water naval presence than canonically.  Granted, that isn't too hard to do, since canon has the IS powers lose the ability to produce basically any warships whatsoever...

Granted, I actually do like settings with more significant naval presences.  If the Jihad had to cripple the Inner Sphere's warship infrastructure over the long term for plot reasons, I wish it had manifested itself as creating difficulties in creating more capital-scale warships instead of permanently obliterating their capacity to produce literally anything.

[AngryButler with a KNIFE!]

I'd remove 3 NL45s from each arc, with 1/3 of what tonnage opened up for cargo and the other 2/3 for fuel.

[Daryk]

7 is a weird number for Capital Lasers...