Author Topic: Best of the Star League ASFs for Clan units  (Read 2670 times)

Alan Grant

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Best of the Star League ASFs for Clan units
« on: 27 March 2024, 13:24:36 »
We know that many Clan second-line/solahma units make use of SLDF machines. That includes aerospace fighter units.

Of the aerospace fighters, which would you say are the best?

If that ends up being in categories such as in-space versus in-atmosphere, or dogfighting/air superiority versus ground attack, or anti-shipping, feel free to quantify your response in that way.

To be clear I'm really not looking for a list of like 10 make-models that are respectable or decent. I'm looking for a small number of a true standout, exceptional performers. Like if you were the Star Captain of a Clan second-line ASF Trinary, and would have to make use of some of those SLDF machines to fill out your command, but got to cherry pick the best, what are the cherries to pick?

AlphaMirage

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Re: Best of the Star League ASFs for Clan units
« Reply #1 on: 27 March 2024, 13:47:34 »
I don't think many SLDF vintage Aerospace made it through the centuries but all of the Clan Second-line fighters are pretty good because of Clan energy weapons.  I'm particularly fond of the Issus (6/9 2xcERLLs for anti-Large Craft, I'd drop the streaks for more fuel and engine), and Tyre, 7MPLs for Strafing ground targets and anti-aerospace although it is a little slow so I'd drop the UAC for more engine.

cmerwin

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Re: Best of the Star League ASFs for Clan units
« Reply #2 on: 27 March 2024, 17:16:01 »
We know that many Clan second-line/solahma units make use of SLDF machines. That includes aerospace fighter units.

Of the aerospace fighters, which would you say are the best?

If that ends up being in categories such as in-space versus in-atmosphere, or dogfighting/air superiority versus ground attack, or anti-shipping, feel free to quantify your response in that way.

To be clear I'm really not looking for a list of like 10 make-models that are respectable or decent. I'm looking for a small number of a true standout, exceptional performers. Like if you were the Star Captain of a Clan second-line ASF Trinary, and would have to make use of some of those SLDF machines to fill out your command, but got to cherry pick the best, what are the cherries to pick?
I've always been fond of both the Chippewa and the Thunderbird (TRB-D36b), both in Clan use from Klondike on. The Thunderbird isn't incredibly well armored (in comparison to something like the Eagle), but it can sure pack a wallop and has great heat management for a bird of its size. I might also put the Corsair in the A-list, good armor, medium ASF, although could be better about heat.
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The Wobbly Guy

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Re: Best of the Star League ASFs for Clan units
« Reply #3 on: 27 March 2024, 18:28:32 »
Standard Rapier seems decent. The Royal version suffers from new toy syndrome, using LPLs when ER PPCs might be better choices.

The Rapier EC looks terrifying, but its connection with the Wolverines might make it forbidden.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Best of the Star League ASFs for Clan units
« Reply #4 on: 27 March 2024, 19:36:11 »
We know that many Clan second-line/solahma units make use of SLDF machines. That includes aerospace fighter units.

Of the aerospace fighters, which would you say are the best?

If that ends up being in categories such as in-space versus in-atmosphere, or dogfighting/air superiority versus ground attack, or anti-shipping, feel free to quantify your response in that way.

To be clear I'm really not looking for a list of like 10 make-models that are respectable or decent. I'm looking for a small number of a true standout, exceptional performers. Like if you were the Star Captain of a Clan second-line ASF Trinary, and would have to make use of some of those SLDF machines to fill out your command, but got to cherry pick the best, what are the cherries to pick?

As a blood spirit fan I love this topic!

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Best of the Star League ASFs for Clan units
« Reply #5 on: 27 March 2024, 19:42:41 »
I would suggest the gotha which became the basis for early clan fighters. You can learn about it here: https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gotha

Alan Grant

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Re: Best of the Star League ASFs for Clan units
« Reply #6 on: 28 March 2024, 06:58:51 »
Interesting responses so far. And they differ from my own initial impulses, which I find VERY interesting.

My gut reaction to this thought was that those ASFs really ought to check at least one important box. They needed to be able to turn and burn with a lot of other Clan fighters. The Visigoth, which is often held up as a gold standard, can move 7/11. Yes some Clan fighters can go much faster than that, and some are slower, but in my head this meant that since the Visigoth has been so common in Clan ASF forces, you'd really want something that can match or exceed the speed profile of that. That way in atmosphere you at least stand a chance of possibly dogfighting that other fighter effectively and getting to a good spot such as behind it to take it down.

If you can move 7/11 that matches or exceeds the Visigoth, Turk, Sabutai, Jagatai, Jengiz, Scylla, Kirghiz, Ostrogoth, Hydaspes, Xerxes, Ammon, Tyre. Which means you stand some chance of getting on (and staying on) the six o'clock position of any of those.

What's left is lighter ASFs, which can be a real problem. But your weaker IS weapons also may stand a better chance of doing critical damage if/when you do score a hit.

So for me, I was wondering if the sweet spot on this might be platforms like the Tomahawk (8/12, not too shabby), Hellcat II (7/11, BAP might be useful for the unit as well as the individual fighter) and perhaps even the Rogue (long range weapons good, plus rear weapon for pesky interceptors).

I'm not sold on my own logic here. Curious what people think. I could see someone perhaps argue that I'm putting too much emphasis on the speed profile and fighting in-atmosphere, at the expense of other things that might make my choices look foolish.

Jellico

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Re: Best of the Star League ASFs for Clan units
« Reply #7 on: 28 March 2024, 07:41:05 »
Standard Rapier seems decent. The Royal version suffers from new toy syndrome, using LPLs when ER PPCs might be better choices.

The Rapier EC looks terrifying, but its connection with the Wolverines might make it forbidden.
LPLs are about 150 years older that ERPPCs.
In the aerospace context long range is often a lot less useful and pulse offers strong medium range options.

Metallgewitter

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Re: Best of the Star League ASFs for Clan units
« Reply #8 on: 28 March 2024, 08:33:08 »
Wanted to say the Swift (cheap fighter for reconaissance, why bother build new ones or even waste a light Omni fighter?) and what do you know the Clan's even updated the Swift to a Swift C version. Perhaps the Trident as well I seem to remember that the Red Corsair bandits actually used Tridents in their raiding campaign.

Weirdo

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Re: Best of the Star League ASFs for Clan units
« Reply #9 on: 28 March 2024, 08:44:40 »
I'll second the Tomahawk suggestion. It's got the speed to keep pace with newer fighters, and even the older models have guns that will breach the at armor of most fighters(and in many cases the wings as well). The high speed also makes it useful as a bomber, able to carry a full load and still maneuver appreciably. This is less useful among the Clans than elsewhere, but there are still plenty of situations where they have no compunctions about bombing something flat.

All of the above are also true for the Hammerhead, so it might be good to consider that as a big brother to the Tomahawk.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Best of the Star League ASFs for Clan units
« Reply #10 on: 28 March 2024, 13:33:41 »
On the lighter end, the Spad's another 7/11 light dogfighter, but oddly enough those probably all got refit as Issedones over time, which is quite literally an OmniSpad.
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Re: Best of the Star League ASFs for Clan units
« Reply #11 on: 28 March 2024, 15:13:34 »
I think the Issedone was based on the Spad, but not in the way of actually converting existing chasses so much as cribbing heavily off the blueprints.
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cmerwin

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Re: Best of the Star League ASFs for Clan units
« Reply #12 on: 28 March 2024, 17:34:18 »
What's left is lighter ASFs, which can be a real problem. But your weaker IS weapons also may stand a better chance of doing critical damage if/when you do score a hit.

So for me, I was wondering if the sweet spot on this might be platforms like the Tomahawk (8/12, not too shabby), Hellcat II (7/11, BAP might be useful for the unit as well as the individual fighter) and perhaps even the Rogue (long range weapons good, plus rear weapon for pesky interceptors).
Looking for a little clarification. Are you looking for only SLDF airframes or omnis that might now be out of commission. I'm thinking of something like the Ogotai?
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Alan Grant

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Re: Best of the Star League ASFs for Clan units
« Reply #13 on: 28 March 2024, 19:02:09 »
If the SLDF/SLDF-in-Exile never flew it, I'm probably not interested. Best of the Star League stuff. Or at least stuff from that era. So the Ogotai is out.

I'm curious about it because it represents this bottom rung of the equipment ladder. Lower than Clan-designed second-line designs. Lower than some of the Golden Century stuff like the Ogotai that might have lingered.

Curious to identify the best of the low and old. Because this stuff absolutely lingers on Clan aerospace second-line RATS for a very long time. They are scattered around the Clan second-line RATs on FM: Updates. Some of it still pops up in the Clan aerospace RATs of FM: 3145 even, clustered amongst the low dice rolls for the various Clans.

Obviously, it's not going to be very competitive in a straight up comparison, but I'm interested in what machines from that pile might actually hold more value, perform better, hold up better, or prove more useful, than people might expect or presume. Based on whatever logic you can come up with. Creative thinking encouraged.
« Last Edit: 28 March 2024, 19:12:47 by Alan Grant »

cmerwin

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Re: Best of the Star League ASFs for Clan units
« Reply #14 on: 28 March 2024, 20:45:34 »
If the SLDF/SLDF-in-Exile never flew it, I'm probably not interested. Best of the Star League stuff. Or at least stuff from that era. So the Ogotai is out.
This helps a lot. Then I think the Sabre should definitely be on your list. An absurd thrust ratio, double heat sinks allow it to fire all day long, and while the armor is relatively thin, it's so incredibly maneuverable that it won't be around for an easy shot. Star League in Exile had these around on all sides. It doesn't punch hard, but it can do it a lot.
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Hellraiser

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Re: Best of the Star League ASFs for Clan units
« Reply #15 on: 02 April 2024, 02:54:32 »
Of the aerospace fighters, which would you say are the best?

If I was making my own "House Trio" of SLDF options, these would be might Light-Medium-Heavy

Trident-3Tb
Corsair-V12b
Thunderbird-D46
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