Clan Watch membership

[cmerwin]

Was reading through the Clan Spaniel supplement (which is really good and enjoyable) and was struck by a comment how many warriors test down into the Clan Watch. This struck me because I have always thought of the Watch as a sub-part of the Warrior Caste, above solahma. But that's my head cannon and not based on any material I can find.

This then led me to think about where the Watch membership comes from. We get examples of dezgra, but I wonder if Watch membership might not also come from elsewhere: someone who doesn't pass their ToP but nevertheless has a good showing? Someone who fails a ToP for promotion?|

What - in Clan eyes - distinguishes someone from being sent to the Watch vs. sent to a solahma unit?

[Mendrugo]

From the Intelligence Operations Handbook: 

Clan warriors consider intelligence work far beneath their exalted station in life. As a result, Clans Ghost Bear, Smoke Jaguar, Steel Viper, and Nova Cat draw most of their agents from the dregs of the least-regarded freebirth units. This alone serves to ensure the poor reputation of the agency, even if its work was considered honorable and useful. Though individual members of the Watch retain their Clan affiliations and warrior-caste privileges upon joining the service, the lack of honor accorded to their work prevents Watch members in these Clans from exercising a warrior's legal rights. The Watch's proper place within Clan society remains undefined. Freebirth soldiers, despised though they are, possess privileges that freebirths in other Clan castes can only dream of; but the Clans consider intelligence work so dishonorable that to even consider warriors and "secret agents" as equals is an insult.

So, they're still technically warrior caste, but in practice don't enjoy those privileges, and it's hazy.  Basically, if you're too young for solahma designation, but you are in a bottom tier freebirth unit, you could be assigned to fill out the Watch.  (Again, this is circa 3055 - the Clans that survived to 3150 have embraced the value of the Watch and intelligence gathering)

When "The Case of the Spying Surat" aired in 3052, the Watch had just been restored to existence in 3049, and individual Clans were still figuring out what to use it for and who should be consigned to it.  Clan Spaniel sent their designated screw-up (the Jar Jar Binks of the unit) to lead theirs.

[cmerwin]

From the Intelligence Operations Handbook: 

So, they're still technically warrior caste, but in practice don't enjoy those privileges, and it's hazy.  Basically, if you're too young for solahma designation, but you are in a bottom tier freebirth unit, you could be assigned to fill out the Watch.  (Again, this is circa 3055 - the Clans that survived to 3150 have embraced the value of the Watch and intelligence gathering)

When "The Case of the Spying Surat" aired in 3052, the Watch had just been restored to existence in 3049, and individual Clans were still figuring out what to use it for and who should be consigned to it.  Clan Spaniel sent their designated screw-up (the Jar Jar Binks of the unit) to lead theirs.

Thanks for the reference. I can also imagine that some dezgra trueborn, depending on their personalities and how they disgraced themselves, might get sent to the Watch as well.

I laughed out loud at several of the Zephan lines from Clan Spaniel.

[tassa_kay]

Another good resource for the Watch is the "A Guide to Covert Ops" sourcebook.

[cmerwin]

Another good resource for the Watch is the "A Guide to Covert Ops" sourcebook.

Thanks for this. I'll have to see if I can track down a copy.

In looking through my copy of Intelligence Operations Handbook, it does mention that Watch commanders (but not operatives) are Mechwarriors nearing the end of their active service and in the case of Jade Falcon, even includes a Bloodnamed Star Colonel.

[tassa_kay]

In looking through my copy of Intelligence Operations Handbook, it does mention that Watch commanders (but not operatives) are Mechwarriors nearing the end of their active service and in the case of Jade Falcon, even includes a Bloodnamed Star Colonel.

Makes sense to me. Watch service was not considered honorable duty, at least not in the invasion era.

[AlphaMirage]

Yeah the Falcons were actually one of the more 'accepting' and active of the Watches. Membership however was still basically a dead end with no chance for even a glorious death as part of a Solahma charge, instead you were sent to hunt down Dark Caste and sully yourself with dezgra actions.

[Alan Grant]

Another useful gem is some of the Clan infantry we get in TRO 3085 that have Watch affiliation as part of their info.

The Ghost Bears heavy solahma infantry are retired Elementals outfitted with personal armor, jet packs and heavy infantry weapons. It specifically says that the Ghost Bears, having so many elementals, tends to have a regular supply of retired or retiring elementals. Another Ghost Bear one was their counterinsurgency points, which are also specialized combat-oriented troops. I believe the Jade Falcons had a similar unit focused on crowd control/riot duty.

I strongly suspect that the Watch has a slew of different personalities that it needs. It needs smart, flexible, adaptable, creative minds to be intelligence operatives and analysts. I could see them looking heavily at their experienced warriors who have reached the probable heights of their conventional warrior career already. For those warriors, assignment to the Watch represents a chance to continue to serve their Clan in a different way. That's probably a great option for those warriors who have been moderately successful or very successful in their conventional warriors careers, and their brains are still as sharp as ever, but they are starting to slow down physically, and fall behind the up-and-coming warriors around them. They can accept the inevitable slide down in rank and position to a solahma unit or they can consider this alternate path.

Then there's another branch of the Watch that is more focused on kicking down doors and leveraging weapons and firepower (see the infantry I noted above). Out of necessity the Inner Sphere Clans began to devote more resources to this arm rather than bog down their touman front/second line units with policing and counterinsurgency duties. But from the canon examples we have it sounds like it's largely older warriors, solahma or near-solahma.

Some of the Wolf units that carried out the operation to recover the Founders' legacies from Strana Mechty were Watch units I believe. Wars of Reaving intro scene of that book has them talking about their mission and actions.

[BrianDavion]

Another good resource for the Watch is the "A Guide to Covert Ops" sourcebook.

Not sure I'd call that book "good" in any regard.

[tassa_kay]

Not sure I'd call that book "good" in any regard.

I didn't say the book was good, I said it was a good resource for the Watch. Which it is.

[Metallgewitter]

The operation to destroy the Kerensky genetic samples and take the originals was a Watch operation supported by adopted Coyote warriors. Ramil Kerensky the leader even stated "For us old timers it's the last chance to earn glory" which makes me believe that older warriors get transferred to the watch if they have certain skillsets (for example analytical minds or perhaps a hand for "dirty" tactics). Would make sense as the Clans usually don't like to waste potential talents even if their primary "function" is no longer given

[tassa_kay]

The Watch doesn't just use solahma warriors, but failed warriors as well. Watches aren't limited to the warrior caste, either. Merchants and technicians also make up a decent portion, depending on the Clan (the Sharks use their merchants a lot, the Hellions and Wolves their technicians, etc) and the nature of their operations. And of course, each Clan's Watch has different methods and specialties based on that Clan's characteristics.

[Sjhernan3060]

Another useful gem is some of the Clan infantry we get in TRO 3085 that have Watch affiliation as part of their info.

The Ghost Bears heavy solahma infantry are retired Elementals outfitted with personal armor, jet packs and heavy infantry weapons. It specifically says that the Ghost Bears, having so many elementals, tends to have a regular supply of retired or retiring elementals. Another Ghost Bear one was their counterinsurgency points, which are also specialized combat-oriented troops. I believe the Jade Falcons had a similar unit focused on crowd control/riot duty.

I strongly suspect that the Watch has a slew of different personalities that it needs. It needs smart, flexible, adaptable, creative minds to be intelligence operatives and analysts. I could see them looking heavily at their experienced warriors who have reached the probable heights of their conventional warrior career already. For those warriors, assignment to the Watch represents a chance to continue to serve their Clan in a different way. That's probably a great option for those warriors who have been moderately successful or very successful in their conventional warriors careers, and their brains are still as sharp as ever, but they are starting to slow down physically, and fall behind the up-and-coming warriors around them. They can accept the inevitable slide down in rank and position to a solahma unit or they can consider this alternate path.

Then there's another branch of the Watch that is more focused on kicking down doors and leveraging weapons and firepower (see the infantry I noted above). Out of necessity the Inner Sphere Clans began to devote more resources to this arm rather than bog down their touman front/second line units with policing and counterinsurgency duties. But from the canon examples we have it sounds like it's largely older warriors, solahma or near-solahma.

Some of the Wolf units that carried out the operation to recover the Founders' legacies from Strana Mechty were Watch units I believe. Wars of Reaving intro scene of that book has them talking about their mission and actions.

Yikes! A bunch of grizzled ( ha!) old elementals who are loaded for bear (ha!) and ready and excited to die in a blaze of glory sounds scary!!!

[cmerwin]

I strongly suspect that the Watch has a slew of different personalities that it needs. It needs smart, flexible, adaptable, creative minds to be intelligence operatives and analysts. I could see them looking heavily at their experienced warriors who have reached the probable heights of their conventional warrior career already.

Very much agree. My own bona fides, I am a former US Army Intelligence Officer, and one of the most prized assets in intelligence personnel is out-of-the-box thinking, analytical thinking, and linguistic ability (not knowledge, per se, just capacity). Right in line with the qualities you mention. While I think the Clans are too rigid in their thinking, at least during the Invasion Era, to praise those traits, they might see them as something "unconventional" or "non-conformist"/"non-standard".

I can imagine a non-Wolf or Falcon Clan commander when asking themselves what to do with a failed (dezgra) or ageing out officer, might ask: is this Warrior unconventional (beyond being dezgra)? Maybe the Watch would benefit from this waste of a Warrior.

The Watch doesn't just use solahma warriors, but failed warriors as well. Watches aren't limited to the warrior caste, either. Merchants and technicians also make up a decent portion, depending on the Clan

Yeah, I think we have several references to the Watch consisting of lots of Technician Caste. Which makes sense given the Clans heavy use of narcotics and "enhanced interrogation" techniques.

[Nerroth]

I might wonder to what extent the Seeker movement has dovetailed with Clan Goliath Scorpion's Watch operations - both pre- and post-Abjuration.

Even outside of Seeker Galaxy, the Scorpions have a number of "Cateran" Clusters which are tailored towards special ops missions. While any Seeker quest would no doubt have a number of Watch officers present, as part of the Seeker"s retinue (and/or in the crews of the JumpShips and DropShips being used).

At the very least, I could see the Imperio having adapted quickly to the need to maintain a competent and motivated Watch system in Nueva Castile: with so many issues they had to confront (not least of which being the investigation of the Umayyads, once the accusations of their being linked to the Not-Named Clan were planted by Clan Coyote).

Indeed, as seen in Shrapnel magazine, many of the key intelligence operations which took place in the run-up to the Hanseatic Crusade were undertaken by Seekers.

And in the "current" era, the need to maintain operational security over the Scorpion HPG network - especially that part being relayed out to the Chaine Cluster from the Empire proper - would fall heavily upon the Watch.

[Jellico]

Makes sense to me. Watch service was not considered honorable duty, at least not in the invasion era.

You have to put an adult in the room.

It is important to remember for the most part we aren't talking spies here. Mostly we are looking at data analysis and interception. Then you have  what you might consider special forces. Teams to do SAS style recon, go in the field to install the "wire taps", or take down "terrorists" the police can't handle. You can even have scenarios like a Hunter-class JumpShip sitting outside the gravity well, picking up a world's electronic emissions and HPGing the results back home. Heck, we know they deploy satellites just for that purpose.

[cmerwin]

You have to put an adult in the room.

It is important to remember for the most part we aren't talking spies here. Mostly we are looking at data analysis and interception. Then you have  what you might consider special forces. Teams to do SAS style recon, go in the field to install the "wire taps", or take down "terrorists" the police can't handle. You can even have scenarios like a Hunter-class JumpShip sitting outside the gravity well, picking up a world's electronic emissions and HPGing the results back home. Heck, we know they deploy satellites just for that purpose.

Fair. And that's what the Falcon Watch seems to have done during the Invasion era, keep it as "honorable" as possible, such that Warriors didn't feel like they were getting their hands sullied. The Falcons take a very early MI-5 (MI-8), young US Military Intelligence, early CIA/MI-6 attitude - in the words of Henry Stimson "Gentlemen don’t read each other’s mail." Basically signals intelligence (SIGINT) alongside very rudimentary special operations.

The Wolves (-in-Exile) Watch seems to have taken the Allen Dulles approach that 80% of intelligence can be found in the news and the rest is HUMINT/special ops, hence looking to Loki and the ISF as inspiration.

These two Clan views eventually get us to the Dark Age/ilClan conception of the Watch, but that's 100 years after the re-formation of the Watch during Operation Revival.

What we know about Anglo-America intelligence relatively early on is that the "adult in the room", much like the Clan model, was incredibly inaccurate because they assumed the enemy thought like their standard military commanders. I think you are absolutely right to say this is mostly analysis and interception, but I'm not sure Invasion era Clan even managed to rise to the level of SAS level recon - likely far below.

It took decades for CIA/MI-6 to realize that intelligence was not just military intelligence - for the Clans, it seems like it took them more than a century - but that may be what happens when you have a warrior mentality trying to do non-warrior work.

(One thing I have never been able to wrap my head around is how the Dragoons have probably the finest Spheroid intelligence service after ROM, yet Intelser seems to have been mostly SIGINT. The only answer I've come up with is that Jaime and Joshua Wolf exhibited all of the character traits that Alan mentioned and figured out how to out maneuver the Spheroids).

[Alan Grant]

Wolf's Dragoons were introduced to the universe way before the Clans were fully fleshed out. That's basically the fact that explains any discrepancies that are hard to make sense of after the fact.

And there is plenty of that. The Clans are this very open, direct communication style society. Becoming part of Wolf's Dragoons didn't just mean intelligence gathering, it meant living your life under cover 24/7 for decades. This is expert level long term undercover work. It's hard to imagine 5+ regiments of individuals from all castes, doing such a great job of not blabbering their real origins to somebody. But on the whole (yes there were exceptions, a traitor or two if I recall) they managed to do exactly that.

So they came from a society where such things scarcely existed and were changed/transformed/trained to be absolutely expert liars and manipulators. This includes the ability to blend in, to just speak like Spheroids and act like Spheroids, to have families like Spheroids. That's nothing short of incredible. It's not hard to imagine training a small group to do that with that level of success. Wolf's Dragoons in total (including all support staff) would have certainly numbered thousands of people of all age groups and roles.

How some 16-year-old Dragoon dependent of labor caste heritage didn't have a bad day interacting with some Spheroid bully teenagers, and didn't blather between sobs "You will see, Kerensky's Clans are coming, and they will burn your stupid tree fort to the ground. You will see, quaiff!!" While a Great House or ROM surveillance operation happened to be listening is just beyond me.

It's one of those aspects of the BT universe that I've just come to accept, and generally suspend my disbelief most of the time for sake of enjoying the game and the universe. But for sake of this discussion, let's say it lends credence to the ideas that the Clans were actually quite capable of training and preparing expert level undercover spies and operatives when they decided to. But it's a knowledge base and a skillset that they generally let collect dust because they perceived it as dishonorable or at least just so UnClan-Like, especially in the more rigidly traditional Clans.

[Mendrugo]

How some 16-year-old Dragoon dependent of labor caste heritage didn't have a bad day interacting with some Spheroid bully teenagers, and didn't blather between sobs "You will see, Kerensky's Clans are coming, and they will burn your stupid tree fort to the ground. You will see, quaiff!!" While a Great House or ROM surveillance operation happened to be listening is just beyond me.

An 18-year old whose parentage is as yet unspecified on his mother's side seems to have done just that.

[cmerwin]

It's one of those aspects of the BT universe that I've just come to accept, and generally suspend my disbelief most of the time for sake of enjoying the game and the universe. But for sake of this discussion, let's say it lends credence to the ideas that the Clans were actually quite capable of training and preparing expert level undercover spies and operatives when they decided to. But it's a knowledge base and a skillset that they generally let collect dust because they perceived it as dishonorable or at least just so UnClan-Like, especially in the more rigidly traditional Clans.

Same. I rationalize it by thinking that the SLDF senior command, most of whom became early Khans, were so uniformly mission driven that they used every asset available to them. Amplify this with resource scarcity, a survivor-mentality, and socio-cultural indoctrination to not waste multiplied over generations and you get senior command staff who respect the importance of tools, even if they don't like them. That includes certain personality traits which are good for intelligence work, but which don't align with Warrior caste values.

In terms of the Dragoons, we know they spent at least two years training. That's a lot of training time, especially with the resources of the whole Council behind it. The story I tell myself is that - given Clan love of testing, scientists, and the assistance of Goliath Scorpion, the first members of the Dragoons were likely rigorously tested for spycraft and secrecy, weeded out, and then further indoctrinated. I wouldn't be surprised if they were isolated and set up to live in conditions which mimicked what the Scorpions could reconstruct of the Inner Sphere, similar to the mythic Soviet "spy-towns".

Joshua Wolf: "We do not accept the terms of this contract."
Scorpion Commander: "Neg!!! You must use contractions!"

"But Clan warriors...."
"NEVER say that word! Do not even THINK about the word 'Clans'!"

[cmerwin]

An 18-year old whose parentage is as yet unspecified on his mother's side seems to have done just that.

Oh wow. This is outstanding!

How some 16-year-old Dragoon dependent of labor caste heritage didn't have a bad day interacting with some Spheroid bully teenagers, and didn't blather between sobs "You will see, Kerensky's Clans are coming, and they will burn your stupid tree fort to the ground. You will see, quaiff!!"

And this is hilarious.

[Mendrugo]

The Clan hall, in Fall, is the subject of my batchall"

[cmerwin]

The Clan hall, in Fall, is the subject of my batchall"

From Nicholas Kerensky's Book of Limericks, Haikus, and Other Poetry, Vol. 1 (ilKhan Press, Katyusha City, 2821).

[Metallgewitter]

In terms of the Dragoons, we know they spent at least two years training. That's a lot of training time, especially with the resources of the whole Council behind it. The story I tell myself is that - given Clan love of testing, scientists, and the assistance of Goliath Scorpion, the first members of the Dragoons were likely rigorously tested for spycraft and secrecy, weeded out, and then further indoctrinated. I wouldn't be surprised if they were isolated and set up to live in conditions which mimicked what the Scorpions could reconstruct of the Inner Sphere, similar to the mythic Soviet "spy-towns".

Joshua Wolf: "We do not accept the terms of this contract."
Scorpion Commander: "Neg!!! You must use contractions!"

"But Clan warriors...."
"NEVER say that word! Do not even THINK about the word 'Clans'!"

And then the mission almost completly derailed from the beginning due to a KERENSKY within their ranks as well as shiny new Mechs which were partially never build in the Inner Sphere. At the very least Comstar became suspicious from the start though could never really do much about the Dragoons. Oh and don't forget the Dragoons ability to supply specs to upgrade Marauder's to Marauder 2's by giving Blackwell a then small supply company the knowledge for it. As von Moltke said "No plan survives contact with the enemy"

[paladin2019]

As von Moltke said "No plan survives contact with the enemy"

As my old 3 might say, "Von Moltke didn't plan well enough." 

[cmerwin]

And then the mission almost completly derailed from the beginning due to a KERENSKY within their ranks as well as shiny new Mechs which were partially never build in the Inner Sphere. At the very least Comstar became suspicious from the start though could never really do much about the Dragoons. Oh and don't forget the Dragoons ability to supply specs to upgrade Marauder's to Marauder 2's by giving Blackwell a then small supply company the knowledge for it. As von Moltke said "No plan survives contact with the enemy"

I mean, there is no way the Clan Council could even imagine asking a Bloodnamed Warrior, from the Kerensky Bloodhouse, to hide their heritage. That's just blasphemy!

Besides, doesn't every Spheroid mercenary unit travel with it's own dedicated space station mech assembly plant star yard? As Murphy said, in the tradition of von Moltke: "Military Intelligence is a contradiction."

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

I might wonder to what extent the Seeker movement has dovetailed with Clan Goliath Scorpion's Watch operations - both pre- and post-Abjuration.

Even outside of Seeker Galaxy, the Scorpions have a number of "Cateran" Clusters which are tailored towards special ops missions. While any Seeker quest would no doubt have a number of Watch officers present, as part of the Seeker"s retinue (and/or in the crews of the JumpShips and DropShips being used).

At the very least, I could see the Imperio having adapted quickly to the need to maintain a competent and motivated Watch system in Nueva Castile: with so many issues they had to confront (not least of which being the investigation of the Umayyads, once the accusations of their being linked to the Not-Named Clan were planted by Clan Coyote).

Indeed, as seen in Shrapnel magazine, many of the key intelligence operations which took place in the run-up to the Hanseatic Crusade were undertaken by Seekers.

And in the "current" era, the need to maintain operational security over the Scorpion HPG network - especially that part being relayed out to the Chaine Cluster from the Empire proper - would fall heavily upon the Watch.

Scorpion Seekers and Clan Watch operate very closely

Every Seeker expedition also doubles as intel gathering ops, it's probably how they were able to avoid pitfalls of Wars of Reaving among things

Both Seekers and Watch are under command of Loremaster which probably gives Watch some second hand street cred since they cooperate with such prestigious movement like Seekers

Not enough to make them popular of course but still just enough to make assignment to Watch not feel like total personal failure for a Warrior

Scorpions also have position of Chief of the Watch who answers directly to Loremaster, this makes sense since Loremaster needs to do their traditional duties, command the Watch and supervise Seekers at the same time which would be quite a workload for a single person

Chief of the Watch is a position given as a reward to successful Seekers so it comes with it's own level of prestige

After exile the Watch expanded greatly both in size and scope of duties (counterintelligence, counterterrorism, sabotage, investigations, information analysis, etc), especially with influx of local recruits who were familiar with the region

We know that one of the first things Khan Rood did when situation with Hanseatic League officially nosedived was to deploy Watch operatives across the border to spy and sow discord

[Mendrugo]

There's not a lot of published info about the composition of the IntelSer reconnaissance crews during the 2970s-3040s, but I would speculate that Goliath Scorpion Seekers would have jumped at the chance to lurk around the Periphery.

[ColBosch]

InterSel is a criminally unexplored corner of the universe.

[Mendrugo]

IntelSel is a criminally unexplored corner of the universe.

Note that I said "not a lot of published info"...