Author Topic: Elementals on standard Mechs  (Read 989 times)

NicoKen

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Elementals on standard Mechs
« on: 08 April 2024, 10:33:02 »
I'm sure this must have been asked before.

As Clan Elementals are never equipped with magnetic clamps,
can i just swarm my own mech to get carried?

MOD Note
Moving to Ground Combat is the is a better question for here.
« Last Edit: 08 April 2024, 12:23:30 by Hammer »

Empyrus

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #1 on: 08 April 2024, 12:58:19 »
Off-hand friendly directed fire (not counting area effects) is completely forbidden, which would cover swarm attacks.
So no, there's no way to move Elementals with standard mechs unless you allow custom units and modify them with magclamps (missiles to magclamps is quite doable modification), or should we ever get such modified Elemental variant.

There is one Clan battle armor that does have magnetic clamps: The Stormbird (Jade Falcon). It is not quite Elemental replacement, being a heavy armor, but it does give second-line Clan forces an option.

NicoKen

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #2 on: 08 April 2024, 13:32:39 »
Ok, i understand.

But Malvina was carrying Elementals on her Shrike!!! ;)

The question came up, because we want to play the "Cauldron" Szenario from the IlClan Book.
As Jade Falcon, you have to deploy Supernovas. So my List would be limited to Omni-Mechs, which is quite strange with all the new standard Mech-models at that time.

Empyrus

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #3 on: 08 April 2024, 14:11:53 »
But Malvina was carrying Elementals on her Shrike!!! ;)
Wait what?
If that was in Hour of the Wolf, that would be just one among its ton of problems i suppose.
Though fiction takes some liberties from the rules at times, in case it was not an actual error. (I think fiction taking liberties mistake but it is what it is.)

I do wonder if there's a Special Pilot Ability that allows BA on standard mechs? I'm not well versed in those, and seeing as they break normal rules sometimes, such ability seems plausible.

Dapper Apples

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #4 on: 08 April 2024, 14:37:54 »
If I had to guess, when swarming enemy mechs, the suits don't really concern themselves with consequential damage made by "making" handholds with their battle claws.

Empyrus

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #5 on: 08 April 2024, 14:43:14 »
If I had to guess, when swarming enemy mechs, the suits don't really concern themselves with consequential damage made by "making" handholds with their battle claws.
Or care if the enemy keeps their balance for that matter.
These are, after all, the two things OmniMechs have, handholds for battle armor, and the magic gyro that makes it possible to move around with external cargo like that without loss of speed or any other problems.

NicoKen

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #6 on: 03 July 2024, 06:47:25 »
Off-hand friendly directed fire (not counting area effects) is completely forbidden, which would cover swarm attacks.
So no, there's no way to move Elementals with standard mechs unless you allow custom units and modify them with magclamps (missiles to magclamps is quite doable modification), or should we ever get such modified Elemental variant.

There is one Clan battle armor that does have magnetic clamps: The Stormbird (Jade Falcon). It is not quite Elemental replacement, being a heavy armor, but it does give second-line Clan forces an option.

Can you give me the reference for friendly fire? So i can not bath my befriended Jade Hawk in Inferno missilles???

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #7 on: 03 July 2024, 08:59:49 »
Can you give me the reference for friendly fire? So i can not bath my befriended Jade Hawk in Inferno missilles???

Total War, pg 42: "...a friendly unit can never be the target of a direct attack, though it can be damaged through the effects of another attack..."
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Charistoph

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #8 on: 03 July 2024, 10:40:55 »
I do wonder if there's a Special Pilot Ability that allows BA on standard mechs? I'm not well versed in those, and seeing as they break normal rules sometimes, such ability seems plausible.

Not in Classic or Alpha Strike.  I can't say for the RPGs, though.  Anything else would have to be home-brewed.
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Starfury

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #9 on: 04 July 2024, 10:52:37 »
This is going to be a somewhat deep cut, but on pg 8 of Schmidt's Petraries, the Seeker Keshik of The Scorpion Empire's Seeker Galaxy has modified their Star Leauge era mechs to carry Elementals.  The Keshik is an Elite Supernova, and 3 mechs out of each Star have to be Star Leauge Mechs.  So it's possible for standard Mechs to carry Elementals if they've been modified before hand.  I'm assuming that second line/solahma units would either use vehicles like the Svantovit, Badger C, etc to move Elementals, but I can't think in the almost 300 years since Elementals were put in place some other enterprising Clan tech or commander didn't think of modifying standard Mechs to carry them.

Charistoph

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #10 on: 04 July 2024, 12:05:35 »
Saldly, lore is not Rules.  At present there are no means on the 'Mech side to allow them to carry Battle Armor without building it as an Omnimech.

Though, as an interesting aside, Omnimechs come equipped with fixed equipment all the time.  If one built an Omnimech with no pod space, it would act like a Battlemech in all other areas except allowing Battle Armor to easily Mechanize with minimal advanced equipment.
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AlphaMirage

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #11 on: 04 July 2024, 12:36:23 »
It would cost slightly more for the advanced gyro but yeah it would basically be the same

Starfury

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #12 on: 04 July 2024, 12:43:02 »
Saldly, lore is not Rules.  At present there are no means on the 'Mech side to allow them to carry Battle Armor without building it as an Omnimech.

Though, as an interesting aside, Omnimechs come equipped with fixed equipment all the time.  If one built an Omnimech with no pod space, it would act like a Battlemech in all other areas except allowing Battle Armor to easily Mechanize with minimal advanced equipment.


Those are the rules for that scenario where Schmidt's Petraries battle the Scorpion Keshik during the Hanseatic Crusade. So there is that official example of standard Mechs being modified to carry Elementals.

Charistoph

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #13 on: 04 July 2024, 18:40:59 »

Those are the rules for that scenario where Schmidt's Petraries battle the Scorpion Keshik during the Hanseatic Crusade. So there is that official example of standard Mechs being modified to carry Elementals.

Full reference would be helpful.  Just claiming a scenario exists without saying in which document doesn't help.

From there, where are the rules to implement this in normal play?
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Starfury

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #14 on: 04 July 2024, 18:52:45 »
Pg 9 of Schmidt's Petraries, third paragraph under defenders, fourth line. The scenario is called Be Careful What You Seek. The Defender is the Seeker Keshik, an Elite Supernova Trinary. The third line states that 3 out 5 mechs in the Keshik must be Star Leauge Mechs. The fourth line reads that those mechs have been modified to carry a Point of Elementals.

Charistoph

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #15 on: 04 July 2024, 19:07:17 »
Pg 9 of Schmidt's Petraries, third paragraph under defenders, fourth line. The scenario is called Be Careful What You Seek. The Defender is the Seeker Keshik, an Elite Supernova Trinary. The third line states that 3 out 5 mechs in the Keshik must be Star Leauge Mechs. The fourth line reads that those mechs have been modified to carry a Point of Elementals.

Are you talking about "BattleTech: Spotlight On: Schmidt's Petraries"?  If so, that first part was missing, and it was sounding like something out of a Shrapnel or fluff book before.

And that's a special scenario rule.  There is nothing to implement this in any other situation.  That's the problem.
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idea weenie

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #16 on: 04 July 2024, 19:18:57 »
Saldly, lore is not Rules.  At present there are no means on the 'Mech side to allow them to carry Battle Armor without building it as an Omnimech.

Though, as an interesting aside, Omnimechs come equipped with fixed equipment all the time.  If one built an Omnimech with no pod space, it would act like a Battlemech in all other areas except allowing Battle Armor to easily Mechanize with minimal advanced equipment.

For a 25% cost increase, IIRC.  (Tech Manual, corrected 6th printing, p285, Final Unit Cost Formulas Table)

So you would use existing rules to refit the Mech into Omni, and then the Elementals can climb aboard.

Charistoph

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #17 on: 05 July 2024, 00:47:55 »
For a 25% cost increase, IIRC.  (Tech Manual, corrected 6th printing, p285, Final Unit Cost Formulas Table)

So you would use existing rules to refit the Mech into Omni, and then the Elementals can climb aboard.

It would still be an Omni, not a standard Battlemech, for all intents and purposes.
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Daryk

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #18 on: 05 July 2024, 06:23:18 »
The "Illegal Design" quirk still exists, last I checked...

Colt Ward

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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #19 on: 05 July 2024, 23:15:04 »
IIRC, there is a advanced rule about 'hand holds' on mechs in case it is not a Omni nor are the BA mag clamp.  It causes them to be encumbered just as if there is a mag clamp squad.
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Re: Elementals on standard Mechs
« Reply #20 on: 05 July 2024, 23:28:42 »
It would still be an Omni, not a standard Battlemech, for all intents and purposes.

Exactly.  You use the existing refit rules, the existing price rules, pay the 25% fee, use the refit time, and you wind up with an Omnimech with all of its equipment being fixed that can carry Elementals.