Bloodname Phenotype Classifications

[cmerwin]

Are there any cases of a Bloodname being changed from a specific phenotype to a general phenotype? I seem to recall that the answer to my question is out there, I just don't remember where. I'm operating on the assumption that a more general bloodname carries more prestige than a specific one (ala Kerensky).

I could imagine this being the case of the warrior with the specific phenotype Bloodname did something utterly exceptional for the Clan, then _everyone_ would now want to be a part of that Bloodhouse, and so the name would get opened up to general phenotypes. Just curious if anyone knows of any cases of this happening.

[AlphaMirage]

I think the Bloodhouses aren't exclusive but there are certain traits that they excel in and it is quite possible for a member of one specific bloodhouse, say a Pilot, to become a different type, such as a Mechwarrior. The Specific ones are just more likely to have the traits necessary for a role, Elementals would for instance be more predisposed to being big but an Elemental can became a MechWarrior if they are selected and trained as one. General bloodhouses just possess Generally useful traits and then it comes down to the screening process and genefather selection to see what kind of role an individual can serve in the Clan once they reach Sibko age. Depending on aptitude and Clan needs you might draw from the groups that were more Pilot or Elemental disposed creches for MechWarrior training or vice versa.

Elementals to Aerospace Pilots are probably infrequent though but not impossible. Elementals could be trained in the Naval role as that is a good fit for their 'we win as a group' leadership mentality and they are of the heightened average intelligence of all Clan Warrior Caste. Tough or physically strong Pilots likely form the core of the non-Elemental Clan Marines if they can't compete with their more agile or fast twitch counterparts in a dogfight.

[Natasha Kerensky]

I don’t know of any bloodnames that went from specific phenotype to general bloodname in the canon.

In the real world, your phenotype is the expression of your genes, specifically what DNA sequences get turned on/off to express certain proteins.  Assuming BT genetics work the same way, then Clan scientists must do something to warriors, probably while they’re still in their Iron Wombs, to turn on/off the specific DNA sequences that create the mechwarrior, elemental, and pilot phenotypes.  This would seem to indicate that it’s a straightforward matter technically to have the scientist caste create a Bloodhouse generation of an entirely different phenotype (or multiple phenotypes) than that Bloodhouse has produced in prior generations.  Politically and administratively, there may be lots of issues.  But technically speaking, the creation of different phenotypes from the same genetic stock is “just” the biochemical equivalent of flipping a lot of light switches.  As long as you know which switches to flip and have the means to do so, and presumably the Scientist Caste does, it’s straightforward.

Administratively, issues of force structure balance may limit what can be done.  A typical Clan cluster is 45 mechwarriors, 125 elementals, and 30 pilots.  If a Bloodhouse is one of only two dedicated to pilots in a Clan and genetic material is limited, then switching that Bloodhouse from pilot to general might upset these figures (or whatever the Clan seems desireable) and result in a shortage of pilots.  Presumably, Clan leadership wouldn’t let that happen or find a workaround.

Politically, it’s unclear if these decisions are made by the Khans of each Clan or require a vote in the Clan Council of each Clan.  (It may vary by Clan.)  If the latter, then generally speaking, Bloodhouses will oppose things that make other Bloodhouses more powerful.  But there must be some horse trading and/or threat making that enables such decisions to get made when necessary.

Politically speaking, expansion of the number of Bloodnamed slots in a Bloodhouse will be more important than a Bloodhouse’s phenotype(s).  The number of slots is typically 25, but some Bloodhouses have been Reaved in the past and getting back to 25 is probably their top priority.

This doesn’t answer the question but maybe helps with the role playing aspects.  FWIW…

[Alan Grant]

I can't recall any Bloodname House's categorization change. But there is a tremendous amount of nuance out there.

We do see some rather prestigious Bloodname Houses have specialized. Nagasawa, Kardaan, are among the founders of their respective Clans but have chosen to focus on producing pilots, for example.

But overall it would appear that some rather prestigious Bloodname Houses have been given the General categorization.

Couple reasons why that must be considered:

1. Some Bloodname Houses seem to strive to produce successful warriors of all phenotypes.
2. Some Bloodname Houses seem to have been forced, or have chosen, to focus primarily on a single phenotype.

A lot of this has to do with planning by successive generations of Bloodname House Leaders. As well as examining the codexes of a particular Bloodline warrior's and evaluating what they are good at.

I love the description that accompanies the Faraday bloodname in FM: CC.

It's something like "Although Faraday is considered a strong General bloodline, it's pilots don't far as well compared to others."

So even within a General bloodline, there can be nuance. They can be really strong in certain areas and struggling in others.

I can't remember where I saw it, but I also once saw a pilot of the Kerensky bloodline, and it was noted that this was somewhat rare. Like Kerensky was being used across all phenotypes, but pilots were in the minority.

I think maintaining a General bloodline is just hard to do.

I'll compare this to countries who produce excellent Olympic athletes across many different categories and events. I'm talking about a country that dominates in both winter and summer Olympics and many different types of events. A country that is very successful in producing athletes that perform well. That isn't easy. Many participating countries chose to focus on a few areas where they have had outstanding results. They've just found the secret sauce to producing athletes who are great at <insert athlete event>. In categories and events where they haven't had any success, they cut funding and support.

So you need to have a solid array of warriors of every phenotype in the pipeline, both performing well currently, in the past, and among the sibkos. I suspect maintaining that is quite difficult. You'd also probably be best served by having a high bloodcount of 20-25 or so. If your Bloodname House is down to a Bloodcount of 10 or less, it could be very difficult to actively maintain branches of the proverbial family tree that cover all the phenotypes with successful warriors, basically every generation.

I highly suspect it's also not entirely up to the Bloodname House. The Bloodname House Leader has to work with the Clan/Khan/Clan Council who is trying to decide what sibkos to authorize. Of what bloodlines, of what phenotypes etc. The Clan in turn might require some convincing to let the Bloodname House Leader produce trueborns of a particular phenotype in which the Bloodname House isn't particularly well-known for. There's components of meeting the needs of the Clan here, as well as just politics.

EDIT: With that in mind, it's important to also note that there is likely a limit to how many trueborns a Clan will birth. Each year, and of what phenotype and bloodline. If Bloodname House A wants to expand and produce more, that "more" probably comes at the cost of a different Bloodname House who in turn will end up producing "less". This competitive component has never really been emphasized in canon sources (besides the Bloodcount), but it must surely be present. That means for a Clan to agree to produce more trueborns of your Bloodname House, or of a particular phenotype. You probably need to have some pretty compelling evidence that this is the path the Clan should take.

[AlphaMirage]

I don't know how much influence the Council actually has on Bloodhouse Politics and Planning, by virtue of being Warriors they should, and its something that could be explored more in the fiction, but they do have a lot of other tasks so it might be delegated somewhat. The Scientist Caste and Chief Geneticist/Keeper of the Kin are in charge of making and selecting Trueborns plus maintaining the genetic health of the Clan so it might vary based on how politically savvy the Scientists are and local conditions/key personalities.

It could be even something like a bidding process where Bloodhouse Leaders present the possibilities their group can offer for the limited number of iron womb/creche slots authorized. That could even lead to purposeful specialization of a Bloodhouse for a Phenotype that strengthen their bid to produce more Warriors of a specific type. Say 4/7 of the Pilot crechies generated are selected for Sibko training vs a more general house which might have 1 Pilot per 7 candidates but possess a higher overall acceptance rate say of 5/7 of the Total in other roles.

The Bloodname Count can also be instrumental in Bloodhouse Politics as a Pilot House would have more members of the Aerospace Corps and thus a greater influence on planning the future of resource allocation into Aerospace than one that was divided among MechWarriors and Elementals.

[cmerwin]

EDIT: With that in mind, it's important to also note that there is likely a limit to how many trueborns a Clan will birth. Each year, and of what phenotype and bloodline. If Bloodname House A wants to expand and produce more, that "more" probably comes at the cost of a different Bloodname House who in turn will end up producing "less". This competitive component has never really been emphasized in canon sources (besides the Bloodcount), but it must surely be present. That means for a Clan to agree to produce more trueborns of your Bloodname House, or of a particular phenotype. You probably need to have some pretty compelling evidence that this is the path the Clan should take.

Alan, all of this was great, as always. Well thought out. This last bit actually speaks to the background of my question. Leroux is a pilot phenotype Bloodname in the Nova Cats, but I wondered if after the Abjuration, it might not be turned into a general Bloodname for the (admittedly Abjured, but still practicing) Clan.

[Alan Grant]

Alan, all of this was great, as always. Well thought out. This last bit actually speaks to the background of my question. Leroux is a pilot phenotype Bloodname in the Nova Cats, but I wondered if after the Abjuration, it might not be turned into a general Bloodname for the (admittedly Abjured, but still practicing) Clan.

I see, that is a slightly different set of circumstances. We know from FM: ComStar, set after the Abjurement that Leroux was still regarded as a pilot-centric Bloodname House. That was circa 3062 I believe.

We also know that the Nova Cats had decided only to use the genetic material they owned exclusively going forward to avoid friction with the other Clans.  In that statement, I've always suspected they meant exclusive Bloodnames only. That's the only thing that really makes sense to me since genetic legacies are only ever owned by one Clan anyway, but Bloodnames might be shared. They might have decided to stick with the Exclusive Bloodnames and only breed sibkos from those.

I wonder if the Leroux Bloodline was needed (for pilots but also the frequent byproducts of that, such as pilots going on to become officers in the Nova Cat fleet) more than ever after the Abjurement.

Others, shared bloodnames, would have been contributing pilots to the touman. If the Nova Cats decided to stop producing those? Then as a percentage of the Clan's bred pilots, the Leroux pilots became even more important and perhaps even more desired for that role than they had been pre-Abjurement.

EDIT: Poking around I already see evidence of flaws in my theory, such as the use of non-exclusive Bloodnames like Katayama many years later. But I still wonder if the Nova Cats restricted what they used to produce new sibkos in some ways, and if that means in turn, that the exclusive Bloodname Houses, like Leroux (which they might have felt particularly safe to use widely), became that much more important, particularly in a niche like the Clan having enough pilots/naval officers.

There is definitely a counter-argument to be found in one critical area. The Nova Cats would have had an exceptionally small gene pool to work with. They probably couldn't afford to bottleneck it too many ways. Using the genetic material they did have in the greatest possible range of pairing combinations would have helped prevent problems. That's not a bad argument for why, many generations later, you'd start to see the Clan using their genetic material in new and different ways from before.

[Hellraiser]

Are there any cases of a Bloodname being changed from a specific phenotype to a general phenotype? I seem to recall that the answer to my question is out there, I just don't remember where. I'm operating on the assumption that a more general bloodname carries more prestige than a specific one (ala Kerensky).

I could imagine this being the case of the warrior with the specific phenotype Bloodname did something utterly exceptional for the Clan, then _everyone_ would now want to be a part of that Bloodhouse, and so the name would get opened up to general phenotypes. Just curious if anyone knows of any cases of this happening.

I think your mistaken on what the "House-Phenotype" classification is or means.

1.  All Houses produce all Phenotypes.   (Ignoring obvious exceptions like the Bears refusing to use ASP Phenotypes)

2.  In theory, All Houses started out as General.  And developed their "specialties" over the last 2 centuries.

3.  The Notations of "Mechwarrior etc etc" do not mean they only produce that type.  The notations are there to denote areas that the house has excelled in.
For Example:  House Ward (Mechwarrior) has produced excellent Mechwarriors & become noted for it. 
They still produce good Elementals & Pilots, they just haven't been noted as "Excellent" or "Special" or whatever term you want to use.

4.  "General" Bloodnames have shown to produce excellent specimens of every single phenotype.

5.  The only way to go from "Specialized" to "General" would be for the house to develop highly successful breeding methods for the other 2 phenotypes.
Something that isn't likely to happen quickly or often, after all, they got known for the single type for a reason. 

6.  "General" Bloodhouses are not always more prestigious than the others, lots of famous Khans come from many non-General names.

7.  The Success of House Breeding isn't even fully on the DNA of said house, it could be said that many are successful because the Scientist/HouseLeaders/Merchants Even? made good deals & pairings w/ the DNA from Other Houses, even other Clans.

[rebs]

The classifications are really just kind of loose guidelines.

Example: Mattlov.

Founded by an Aerospace pilot, has Mechwarrior Galaxy Commanders with the name in the fiction and lore.  Is classified in the sourcebooks as an Elemental bloodname.

It should just be a general bloodname.  But that's fine because as said its kind of just loose guidelines anyway.  And as Hellraiser said all houses can help produce all phenotypes if needed.  That's as stated or shown by the fiction and source material.

And don't think about it too hard.  There are other details to ponder in this game that are far more fun.

[Colt Ward]

I don't know how much influence the Council actually has on Bloodhouse Politics and Planning, by virtue of being Warriors they should . . .

It would help to get a story about the formation of the Horses' TankWarriors.

[tassa_kay]

It would help to get a story about the formation of the Horses' TankWarriors.

We did get an interesting tidbit in RecGuide 29 where a TankWarrior (Arianna Mitchell) won a Bloodname "traditionally held by MechWarriors".

[mikecj]

Or the pilots and elementals contesting with Phelan & Vlad for Cyrilla Ward's bloodname.

[Hellraiser]

Each Bloodname has 25 Heritages (at Max baring double names like Kerensky/others)

Even in a house that excels at making 1 phenotype over others, your still looking at several heritages that are traditionally held by the other 2 phenotypes.

I've said in the past that, "assuming a general name is split equally & is at full strength", your probably looking at something like 9-Mechwarriors, and 8 Pilots/Elementals for your 25 lineages.

For a house that favors 1 type over the others, like Ward, your probably looking at something like 15-5-5, or 14-6-5, or 12-7-6,  you get the picture.
House Ward a Mechwarrior specialized house, is still going to have Bloodnamed of the Pilot & Elemental phenotypes with heritages that are held long term by those types as the "Norm" for that lineage.

Cyrilla & Ulric for that matter, just happened to be holders of some very prestigious lines with very good histories to them.

[Vehrec]

Each Bloodname has 25 Heritages (at Max baring double names like Kerensky/others)

Even in a house that excels at making 1 phenotype over others, your still looking at several heritages that are traditionally held by the other 2 phenotypes.

I've said in the past that, "assuming a general name is split equally & is at full strength", your probably looking at something like 9-Mechwarriors, and 8 Pilots/Elementals for your 25 lineages.

For a house that favors 1 type over the others, like Ward, your probably looking at something like 15-5-5, or 14-6-5, or 12-7-6,  you get the picture.
House Ward a Mechwarrior specialized house, is still going to have Bloodnamed of the Pilot & Elemental phenotypes with heritages that are held long term by those types as the "Norm" for that lineage.

Cyrilla & Ulric for that matter, just happened to be holders of some very prestigious lines with very good histories to them.

Are heritages consistently bred true though?  If you have bloodnamed elementals, can thier sibkos be aerospace phenotypes or Mechwarriors?  Or is the eugenics program really a eugenics program, producing mostly siloed products who don't backcross and branch off into others?

[Hellraiser]

Are heritages consistently bred true though? 

If you have bloodnamed elementals, can thier sibkos be aerospace phenotypes or Mechwarriors? 

Or is the eugenics program really a eugenics program, producing mostly siloed products who don't backcross and branch off into others?

I believe so.

I don't think so.

I believe so.

I think they HAVE to breed true basically because that was how they got to those phenotypes being a distinct thing.

Basically you kept breeding BIG people over & over to get to Elementals.   (Wasn't it said they used Laborer Caste donors at some point in the process for size?)

And you kept breeding small/fast/smart people over & over to get Pilots, etc etc.

Yes, there was probably some manipulation of DNA in there as well at some point.

The original DNA pool was 800 Bloodnamed Warriors & another 600 "Exceptional" Non-Bloodnames to ensure diversity, so, you can have sibkos w/ only 1 bloodnamed parent as the "Maternal" donor.

But I don't think they ever take 2 Elementals & fuse that into a "Pilot Sibko".
At least I've never heard of something like that happening.

But, I suppose it might be possible, they did full on Clone Jamie Wolf & they can Swap the Male/Female donors to the Egg/Sperm or you'd never have a Male Bloodnamed have his Heritage pass on.  So maybe you can be a Pilot made from 2 Elementals.

Either way though, it's not like have to go w/ their own donors heritage.  Pilot Bill Ward's kids can go after Pilot Lisa Ward's blood name when she dies.

[Alan Grant]

I don't think it's as simple as turning genes on and off (or swapping genes in and out) in a single individual's DNA, as some have suggested in this thread.

I can point to a few different lines from different books that suggest the Clans prefer to let things progress through generations of natural selection. WoK has a sidebar on this that strongly hints the scientists don't like to tinker too much with genetics if they don't have to.

But instead my Exhibit A is the fluff on the Sylph in TRO: 3058. The Cobras went out of their way to breed some new warriors that had both elemental and pilot genetics. We get a named noble trooper named Point Commander Issia. Bred of a Mannix-Kardaan breeding program. They note that they were trying to bring together the strength and resilience of the Mannix line (which focuses on Elementals) with the Kardaan line (known for its pilots and specifically in that book, their agility and alertness).

If the Clans could truly flip phenotypes like a switch, this mixing of different phenotyped warriors would not be necessary. They would be able to take a couple Elemental Mannix genetic legacies, flip the genetics (by modifying or adding/removing specific genes) to create some pilot-y goodness in there and they'd be good. No need to actually cross-breed lines from different phenotypes to create a mixed phenotype. They could just tinker with the 1 phenotype to flip a few genes around. That would be more straightforward, with fewer variables to manage when you are adjusting 1 thing as opposed to trying to combine or mix 2.

But notice, that's not what they did...they went out of their way to find a devoted Elemental line and a devoted Pilot line and to cross breed them to produce a new generation of warriors with attributes of each phenotype. With Issia, the book tells us, they got exactly what they were hoping to produce. That she exhibited precisely the desired traits derived from each.

Reads like cross breeding a bulldog and a shih tzu.

[Hellraiser]

I can point to a few different lines from different books that suggest the Clans prefer to let things progress through generations of natural selection. WoK has a sidebar on this that strongly hints the scientists don't like to tinker too much with genetics if they don't have to.

But instead my Exhibit A is the fluff on the Sylph in TRO: 3058. The Cobras went out of their way to breed some new warriors that had both elemental and pilot genetics. We get a named noble trooper named Point Commander Issia. Bred of a Mannix-Kardaan breeding program. They note that they were trying to bring together the strength and resilience of the Mannix line (which focuses on Elementals) with the Kardaan line (known for its pilots and specifically in that book, their agility and alertness).

If the Clans could truly flip phenotypes like a switch, this mixing would not be necessary. They would be able to take a couple Elemental Mannix genetic legacies, flip the genetics (by modifying or adding/removing specific genes) to create some pilot-y goodness in there and they'd be good. No need to actually cross-breed lines from different phenotypes to create a mixed phenotype. They could just tinker with the 1 phenotype to flip a few genes around.

But notice, that's not what they did...they went out of their way to find a devoted Elemental line and a devoted Pilot line and to cross breed them to produce a new generation of warriors with attributes of each phenotype. With Issia, the book tells us, they got exactly what they were hoping to produce. That she exhibited precisely the desired traits derived from each.

Reads like cross breeding a bulldog and a shih tzu.

I agree.

Getting to the current Pilot & Elemental Types or even the Mechwarrior that is just naturally faster, took generations of breeding of the most extreme best examples of those traits.

But I didn't want to say you could NEVER do something like Vehrec inquired about, because, well, I don't KNOW for a fact that you can't.

Heck, I still don't know what a "Tank Warrior" is?    Or the Raven "Naval" lines.

Are they any different genetically from the other 3 types?  What are their stat bonuses?

The only things I know that they do on a "semi-regular" basis is the swapping from donner sexes to allow for different pairings.

[tassa_kay]

Heck, I still don't know what a "Tank Warrior" is?    Or the Raven "Naval" lines.

Are they any different genetically from the other 3 types?  What are their stat bonuses?

TankWarriors were bred from the mixture of mediocre MechWarrior and Elemental bloodlines that were being weeded out during the Great Reavings of the 3090s, and the results were predictably mediocre as a result despite the warriors combining the resilience of Elementals with the reflexes of MechWarriors. They didn't really perform any better than their regular vehicle crews and since been mostly relegated to the Horses' second-line Clusters. Stats-wise, there are some differences in AToW, but ER3145 states that a truly distinct TankWarrior phenotype hadn't emerged as of 3145.

The Ravens' Naval bloodlines emphasize intelligence, adaptability and command presence over the physical traits of the aerospace pilot phenotype they're derived from, and also have some stat differences in AToW (the Ravens have both Naval and ProtoMech pilots as sub-castes of their AeroSpace phenotypes). Interestingly, their Trials of Position take place in simulators, and their training emphasizes planning and teamwork. In the current era, the Raven saKhan is of the Naval sub-caste.

[Hellraiser]

TankWarriors were bred from the mixture of mediocre MechWarrior and Elemental bloodlines that were being weeded out during the Great Reavings of the 3090s, and the results were predictably mediocre as a result despite the warriors combining the resilience of Elementals with the reflexes of MechWarriors. They didn't really perform any better than their regular vehicle crews and since been mostly relegated to the Horses' second-line Clusters. Stats-wise, there are some differences in AToW, but ER3145 states that a truly distinct TankWarrior phenotype hadn't emerged as of 3145.

The Ravens' Naval bloodlines emphasize intelligence, adaptability and command presence over the physical traits of the aerospace pilot phenotype they're derived from, and also have some stat differences in AToW (the Ravens have both Naval and ProtoMech pilots as sub-castes of their AeroSpace phenotypes). Interestingly, their Trials of Position take place in simulators, and their training emphasizes planning and teamwork. In the current era, the Raven saKhan is of the Naval sub-caste.

Gracias Tassa.

So they are strictly RPG differences & nothing has shown up at the BT/TW level yet then?
Which actually reminds me, I feel like I also recall there being a "Super-Elemental" of some stripe in one of the RPG books, specialty design from the Bears or Horses IIRC.

[Colt Ward]

TankWarriors were bred from the mixture of mediocre MechWarrior and Elemental bloodlines that were being weeded out during the Great Reavings of the 3090s, and the results were predictably mediocre as a result despite the warriors combining the resilience of Elementals with the reflexes of MechWarriors. They didn't really perform any better than their regular vehicle crews and since been mostly relegated to the Horses' second-line Clusters. Stats-wise, there are some differences in AToW, but ER3145 states that a truly distinct TankWarrior phenotype hadn't emerged as of 3145.

The 'TankWarrior' concept DOES work . . . but like the Nova vs Mech star & BA star, it is not something that is going to appear for Total Warfare unless you are getting some SPA.

I say this because size & muscle mass DOES help for fixing one of the most common problems for military vehicles- mobility issues.  Watch videos of breaking track, it is muscle/labor intensive in the field and not that much better in a motorpool from what I understand.  I know one of the most severe cases of pucker I had as a driver was when the morning after a snowstorm as we were leaving a BOC site for the end of the exercise I put the APC up on a rock that had covered up with snow overnight.  The marker chemlight was buried and the bushes next to it had made it seem like a rise in the ground.

For wheels & hover it will be the same thing, the crew is often the first resort to getting a wheeled vehicle out of the mud.  I would also imagine that any hovercraft that slipped into terrain that caused it to ground would also be trying to free it in much the same way.

The only downside is not something vehicles in general are designed around- the Russian paradigm, where crew have to be short; 5'6" IIRC- letting them keep a lower profile thus less of a 'target' to shoot at from the silhouette.

A stronger/bigger sized crew is also going to be 'faster' at the reload for missile, cannon, & gauss ammo.  Finally, power from vehicles would be used to recharge BA . . . Hellraiser, you were in right?  You ever see the small guy in a section try to haul/move the long set of slave cables?

[Alan Grant]

Which actually reminds me, I feel like I also recall there being a "Super-Elemental" of some stripe in one of the RPG books, specialty design from the Bears or Horses IIRC.

Mechwarrior's Guide to the Clans gives us the Advanced Elemental Sibko life path for the Bears and Horses. Since both Clans rely heavily on Elementals the premise is that they have developed tougher/higher/better training for them and some sibkos are trained in this. It says it is not mandatory for those clans but represents a particularly "tough and effective sibko"

It's just a training cycle, akin elsewhere to say a character completing any kind of training/academy lifepath.

[Hellraiser]

Watch videos of breaking track, it is muscle/labor intensive in the field and not that much better in a motorpool from what I understand.  I know one of the most severe cases of pucker I had as a driver was when the morning after a snowstorm as we were leaving a BOC site for the end of the exercise I put the APC up on a rock that had covered up with snow overnight.  The marker chemlight was buried and the bushes next to it had made it seem like a rise in the ground.


Hellraiser, you were in right?  You ever see the small guy in a section try to haul/move the long set of slave cables?

Stop it Colt, stop it, your giving me flashbacks....../shivers.

I think my worst track experience was actually being in the driver seat......   your thinking, oh, I got the easy job today, I just sit inside....
An hour+ later with aching leg muscles from having to have the tank in gear & full brakes depressed had me ready to cry I needed to get out & stretch so bad.  LOL.
It was like being in a leg press that never ended.  They were taking an eternity getting the new track in place.

And yeah, there is definitely some labor intensive work work in dealing w/ heavy vehicles.
I can't tell you the # of Friday's I was regretting my choice as the Grunts got to wash a Humvee in 45 minutes, or, go clean a rifle & then be off for the weekend, while we spent hours cleaning each tank & often would see maybe a day of a 3-day weekend as actual off time.