Improved cockpit

[Izzy193]

I had this just come to me as of this post, a Improved cockpit with enhancments for improved piloting and gunnery for Bipeds and Quad mechs as well as areospace fighters.

Improved Cockpit:
Tonnage: 5
Crits: 6
Gameplay Rules:

-1 Bonus to the target number for Piloting skill rolls and to hit rolls.

ECM penalty is cancelled out by the to hit bonus when in a hostile ECM field.

Meta Clarification: the second part applies to all hostile ECM fields and the includes Guardian,Clan ECM and Angel ECM fields as of this post.

Lore: Work on the improved cockpit begun as early at 3035, Initially a NAIS development the Capellan Confederation would independently develop theier own prototypes of this improved cockpit. the clan invasion spurned both powers to develop the improved cockpit faster using the standard cockpit as a base and installing an additional one ton of targeting and tracking equipment. the result was a cockpit the gave more accurate weapons fire while not under a hostile ECM field. The Technlkogy would not become advanced tech until 3068 and would not become standard tech until 3099.

[Daryk]

So... a Targeting Computer that's a flat two tons AND gives a piloting bonus?

[Izzy193]

So... a Targeting Computer that's a flat two tons AND gives a piloting bonus?

Prett much summs up this cockpit type well. as it's a standard cockpit with a intergrated targeting and piloting computer.

[Cannonshop]

Okay, I see what you were trying for there, now, here's my counter argument:

"Improved" cockpit

6 tons
6 crits

reduces the impact of cockpit hits to the pilot by one, improves consciousness checks by two, improves shutdown/overheat checks by two, PSR by 1.

Reasoning:

Better ergonomics for the pilot, better insulated cockpit electronics, redundant life support systems, improved cockpit ventilation, better cockpit seating and straps, and overall safety improvements to keep the pilot in the fight longer.

Thus, NOT infringing on Targeting Computers or other systems.  The 'improvement' means you're more durable, less likely to be knocked out, with better protection against the 'transfer hits' caused when the head gets hit with a non-penetrating weapon.

That CAN be worth two and two on tons and crits, esp. on something heavier and more expensive.

[Demiurge]

I like the idea; it's the opposite of a small cockpit.  Instead of going smaller and more cramped to save size and weight, it goes bigger and heavier to fit more bells and whistles and protect the pilot better.

I've long been of the opinion that the pilot hits from ammo explosions rule is silly and should simply be retconned out, but maybe that would be something your improved cockpit idea could handle.

[garhkal]

Okay, I see what you were trying for there, now, here's my counter argument:

"Improved" cockpit

6 tons
6 crits

reduces the impact of cockpit hits to the pilot by one, improves consciousness checks by two, improves shutdown/overheat checks by two, PSR by 1.

Reasoning:

Better ergonomics for the pilot, better insulated cockpit electronics, redundant life support systems, improved cockpit ventilation, better cockpit seating and straps, and overall safety improvements to keep the pilot in the fight longer.

Thus, NOT infringing on Targeting Computers or other systems.  The 'improvement' means you're more durable, less likely to be knocked out, with better protection against the 'transfer hits' caused when the head gets hit with a non-penetrating weapon.

That CAN be worth two and two on tons and crits, esp. on something heavier and more expensive.

I agree.  Something that works on lessening the issues of head hits, imo would be worth that.

[Charistoph]

Too bad it can't fit in a Mech unless it's Torso-Mounted in a Mech with a Compact Engine and Gyro.

There's only one more Crit available in the Head, after all.

[DevianID]

I've long been of the opinion that the pilot hits from ammo explosions rule is silly and should simply be retconned out, but maybe that would be something your improved cockpit idea could handle.

Yeah the ammo hits to the pilot is such a bummer.  On one hand, it really ends games quicker as your ammo/ap gauss/improved lasers exploding will melt the pilots brain, on the other hand the lore explanation is terrible.  Now, ammo exploding and causing 2 hits to the pilot because of internal fires, or because the inside of a mech is sealed/pressurized and the pilot is hit with over pressure/shockwaves from sitting on top of an explosion that throws the mech around?  Totally reasonable.  But from made up neurohelmet electrical feedback?  Totally silly sounding and makes me want to not use the rule.  Especially when 'the mech is burning from the inside' or 'the mechs arm just took off 8 meters in the air from the explosion, rattling the pilot' is totally reasonable (better in my opinion) explanations.

[Cannonshop]

Too bad it can't fit in a Mech unless it's Torso-Mounted in a Mech with a Compact Engine and Gyro.

There's only one more Crit available in the Head, after all.

The idea can be adjusted, I was only suggesting an alternative. :) adjusting the 'improved' cockpit so it fits in the head, not a big problem there.  The basic idea is the same-an improvement that doesn't infringe on existing gear or systems because it addresses something that isn't being addressed by something else, but is maybe still pretty valuable.

[Charistoph]

Yeah, I don't think improved target modifiers is the way to go with it.  Improving the ramifications of being a pilot would be a good thing, though.

So, either keep the weight or only go up by 1.  Something like:

Improved Single Pilot Cockpit
Tonnage: 4
Crits: 2

Game Rules: Reduces Pilot Damage from Ammo Bay Hits, and similar, to the Pilot by 1.  For Head Hits and Pilot Damage from Falls, roll 1D6 and on a 5-6, Pilot takes a Hit.  First Hit to either Cockpit Critical causes 2 Damage to the Pilot, but does not kill the pilot.  Second Hit to Cockpit Critical destroys the Cockpit as normal.

Reinforced Single Pilot Cockpit
Tonnage: 6
Crits: 2

Game Rules: Reduces Pilot Damage from Ammo Bay Hits, and similar, to 0.  Head Hits and "Seat Belt Check" Damage is reduced to 0.  First Hit to either Cockpit Critical causes 2 Damage to the Pilot, but does not kill the pilot.  Second Hit to Cockpit Critical destroys the Cockpit as normal.

Piloting Single Pilot Cockpit (can't think of a better name atm)
Tonnage: 4
Crits: 1

Games Rules: Add a +1 to Piloting Skill Rolls to prevent Falls and Piloting Damage from Falls.

[Demiurge]

Yeah the ammo hits to the pilot is such a bummer.  On one hand, it really ends games quicker as your ammo/ap gauss/improved lasers exploding will melt the pilots brain, on the other hand the lore explanation is terrible.  Now, ammo exploding and causing 2 hits to the pilot because of internal fires, or because the inside of a mech is sealed/pressurized and the pilot is hit with over pressure/shockwaves from sitting on top of an explosion that throws the mech around?  Totally reasonable.  But from made up neurohelmet electrical feedback?  Totally silly sounding and makes me want to not use the rule.  Especially when 'the mech is burning from the inside' or 'the mechs arm just took off 8 meters in the air from the explosion, rattling the pilot' is totally reasonable (better in my opinion) explanations.

I heartily agree.  Realistically, battlemech cockpits could be isolated from any reasonable thermal, electrical, pressure and chemical excursions going on elsewhere in the mech with a modicum of extra design care and mass.  It's the thirty-whatevereth century and there's mass-produced vehicular fusion reactors and FTL travel I think they can figure out blow-out panels, insulation, and vibration damping.  But if they're thematically supposed to be like WWII tanks where things like lubrication and ammo fires were as much of a danger to the crew as actual enemy shells, then, sure, there can be rules for internal systems catastrophically failing and destroying the 'mech from the inside along with the unfortunate squishy meat bag driving the thing.

But the explanation that ammo hits cause unaviodable neurohelmet feedback has and will always cause high-G eyeball rolls from anyone who has ever changed out a fuse.

Yeah, I don't think improved target modifiers is the way to go with it.  Improving the ramifications of being a pilot would be a good thing, though.

So, either keep the weight or only go up by 1.  Something like:

Improved Single Pilot Cockpit
Tonnage: 4
Crits: 2

Game Rules: Reduces Pilot Damage from Ammo Bay Hits, and similar, to the Pilot by 1.  For Head Hits and Pilot Damage from Falls, roll 1D6 and on a 5-6, Pilot takes a Hit.  First Hit to either Cockpit Critical causes 2 Damage to the Pilot, but does not kill the pilot.  Second Hit to Cockpit Critical destroys the Cockpit as normal.

Reinforced Single Pilot Cockpit
Tonnage: 6
Crits: 2

Game Rules: Reduces Pilot Damage from Ammo Bay Hits, and similar, to 0.  Head Hits and "Seat Belt Check" Damage is reduced to 0.  First Hit to either Cockpit Critical causes 2 Damage to the Pilot, but does not kill the pilot.  Second Hit to Cockpit Critical destroys the Cockpit as normal.

Piloting Single Pilot Cockpit (can't think of a better name atm)
Tonnage: 4
Crits: 1

Games Rules: Add a +1 to Piloting Skill Rolls to prevent Falls and Piloting Damage from Falls.

One of the things that Battletech does not do well and that Crimson Skies does perhaps a bit better is that it breaks out the pilot skills into multiple different categories (e.g. natural touch, sixth sense, steady hand) all of which are applied in different circumstances.

I bring this comparison up for two reasons; the Crimson Skies tabletop game very clearly has a lot of Battletech DNA in it (and brazenly recycles ideas, like having something that's a NARC beacon in all but name and also higher-caliber MGs have less range), and also, Battletech effectively does have different piloting and weapons skill categories... they're just differentiated by a rather Byzantine and clunky set of modifiers, most of which have very little to do with the pilot.

Thus, a piloting skill roll is a piloting skill roll... but there is going to be a base modifier for the event which precipitated the PSR, there might be special systems onboard the mech like AES or the mech being a quad which change things, et cetera et cetera.  At the end of the day, it's not actually any simpler than the Crimson Skies system, and lends itself substantially less to any sort of roleplay component.

[DevianID]

But the explanation that ammo hits cause unaviodable neurohelmet feedback has and will always cause high-G eyeball rolls from anyone who has ever changed out a fuse

Yeah, heartily agree.  As a game mechanic, pilots taking damage is a fun thing and good for game balance... 'Kill the meat save the metal' and all.  But the lore description for the 'why' is just terrible... When the baseline for ammo explosions starts at 'tank turrets turn into a helicopter and fly away', ammo explosions dealing fire or shock damage to the pilot sitting 2 meters from said blast/fire I can rationalize... the pilot getting tazer'd in the brain I cant rationalize... like where did that electricity feedback come from when your chemical rocket exploded?  How did that electricity go into the neurohelmet?

I feel like maybe the early lore was that the mech physically implanted into your brain the same as in the matrix, so that your mech hand taking damage made your real hand hurt?  i didnt read the book that came in battledroids, it was before my time?   If btech piloting was like entering the matrix the 'if you die in the matrix your real heart stops, cause im a writer who doesnt understand how hearts work' it would at least be a little easier to swallow. 

But thats not how btech works in any of the books I read, where the neurohelmet just acted as sensor to improve reaction speed without needing the delay for physically flipping certain switches, which is pretty achievable and something that we are starting to have now with brainwave controlled devices.  Put an eye tracker in there too to track what the mechwarrior is looking at, and you free up even more physical doodads to keep the pilots hands focused on the controls.

Anyway, for balancing this, I would make whatever bonuses worse then the piloting/tonnage of the clan Interface cockpit.  That silly, badly described tech should remain better then what you can achieve with an improved cockpit.

I do like -1 piloting bonus, as a counter to the small cockpit, as a 4 ton 6 slot head 'Improved cockpit' upgrade versus the small cockpit at 2 tons 4 crits and standard cockpit at 3 tons 5 crits.  I would make the 6th crit another cockpit crit, as the pilot has more room and tools making piloting easier, unlike the cramped cockpits, but the drawback of having a bigger roomier, feature rich cockpit is that its easier to hit it.

I think a separate cockpit should be the 'heavy duty' cockpit, which is 4 tons 6 slots, with no piloting bonus, but you ignore the first pilot hit taken, and you need 2 cockpit crits to kill the pilot (but you have 2 cockpit slots now in the head).  This way the 'heavy duty' cockpit is a little different to just a 1 ton armored cockpit, kinda like how the armored gyro is different from the heavy duty gyro.  Ignoring 1 pilot hit feels more reasonable versus ignoring all pilot hits... im not a huge fan of special rules that ignore 'everything', as regardless of how I feel about ammo explosions I dont want to ignore all the pilot hits from them, as its a core gameplay rule.

[Cannonshop]

Yeah, heartily agree.  As a game mechanic, pilots taking damage is a fun thing and good for game balance... 'Kill the meat save the metal' and all.  But the lore description for the 'why' is just terrible... When the baseline for ammo explosions starts at 'tank turrets turn into a helicopter and fly away', ammo explosions dealing fire or shock damage to the pilot sitting 2 meters from said blast/fire I can rationalize... the pilot getting tazer'd in the brain I cant rationalize... like where did that electricity feedback come from when your chemical rocket exploded?  How did that electricity go into the neurohelmet?

Or, "Haven't these people ever heard of Circuit breakers, or at least fuses?"

I feel like maybe the early lore was that the mech physically implanted into your brain the same as in the matrix, so that your mech hand taking damage made your real hand hurt?  i didnt read the book that came in battledroids, it was before my time?   If btech piloting was like entering the matrix the 'if you die in the matrix your real heart stops, cause im a writer who doesnt understand how hearts work' it would at least be a little easier to swallow. 

But thats not how btech works in any of the books I read, where the neurohelmet just acted as sensor to improve reaction speed without needing the delay for physically flipping certain switches, which is pretty achievable and something that we are starting to have now with brainwave controlled devices.  Put an eye tracker in there too to track what the mechwarrior is looking at, and you free up even more physical doodads to keep the pilots hands focused on the controls.

Anyway, for balancing this, I would make whatever bonuses worse then the piloting/tonnage of the clan Interface cockpit.  That silly, badly described tech should remain better then what you can achieve with an improved cockpit.

I do like -1 piloting bonus, as a counter to the small cockpit, as a 4 ton 6 slot head 'Improved cockpit' upgrade versus the small cockpit at 2 tons 4 crits and standard cockpit at 3 tons 5 crits.  I would make the 6th crit another cockpit crit, as the pilot has more room and tools making piloting easier, unlike the cramped cockpits, but the drawback of having a bigger roomier, feature rich cockpit is that its easier to hit it.

I think a separate cockpit should be the 'heavy duty' cockpit, which is 4 tons 6 slots, with no piloting bonus, but you ignore the first pilot hit taken, and you need 2 cockpit crits to kill the pilot (but you have 2 cockpit slots now in the head).  This way the 'heavy duty' cockpit is a little different to just a 1 ton armored cockpit, kinda like how the armored gyro is different from the heavy duty gyro.  Ignoring 1 pilot hit feels more reasonable versus ignoring all pilot hits... im not a huge fan of special rules that ignore 'everything', as regardless of how I feel about ammo explosions I dont want to ignore all the pilot hits from them, as its a core gameplay rule.

sounds like a decent idea.

[Maingunnery]

Yeah, I don't think improved target modifiers is the way to go with it.  Improving the ramifications of being a pilot would be a good thing, though.

So, either keep the weight or only go up by 1.  Something like:

Improved Single Pilot Cockpit
Tonnage: 4
Crits: 2

Game Rules: Reduces Pilot Damage from Ammo Bay Hits, and similar, to the Pilot by 1.  For Head Hits and Pilot Damage from Falls, roll 1D6 and on a 5-6, Pilot takes a Hit.  First Hit to either Cockpit Critical causes 2 Damage to the Pilot, but does not kill the pilot.  Second Hit to Cockpit Critical destroys the Cockpit as normal.

I really like this idea, it is far more common these day for pilots to die from pilot hits.
Something like this would really bring the balance back.

[RifleMech]

I like the idea of an improved cockpit that makes hits more survivable.


I've never had a problem with ammo explosions causing feedback though. I guess it's from how it was portrayed in older lore as needed to pilot the mech, how the pilot become part of the mech for balance and stuff. I could see how an internal ammo explosion could cause feedback since the pilot is feeling the mech. Now, the neurohelmet just feels like a fancy helmet since not all mechs need them. The feedback damage to pilots doesn't make as much sense now.

[DOC_Agren]

Or, "Haven't these people ever heard of Circuit breakers, or at least fuses?"

Yes but we didn't have that fuse so we used a piece of copper in it's place.
and the circuit breaker, broke so the tech not having a spare direct wired it

these aren't going to be an issue right????
 

[Cannonshop]

Yes but we didn't have that fuse so we used a piece of copper in it's place.
and the circuit breaker, broke so the tech not having a spare direct wired it

these aren't going to be an issue right????
 

That explains the used ones, it does nothing to explain the brand new ones just off the production line that have that same, identical outcome.

To my way of thinking, Fusible linkes or Circuit Breakers must be a sort of "lost technology" that must've been lost in the past-tense sometime in the 1980s of the setting that would evolve Battletech's universe.

People just...forgot what they were.

Maybe even as a global population control measure before the development of cheap space flight and early colonization.  (arranging to have lots of products fail irreparably as part of the 'disposable user' culture-it burns out, so you have to buy the new one that complies with the new state-required restrictions on use, or kill switch, or environmental regs-all of which are really there to enrich connected businesses and state-owned entrprises).
The double=bonus being that failure of critical life support systems and general power grids cutting population growth and the resultant managed scandals helping undermine people's will and ability to resist new restrictions until you get the conditioned response we see with most BT populations- they're docile and submissive and not very smart-but much easier to control.

but somewhere in the mix, the idea of fuses was forgotten by the Ruling Elites too-so they just...don't see a reason for them to exist, even when their son gets his eggs scrambled by a feedback through his neurohelmet.

"Oh, High Tech just WORKS that way!!"

Hence, nobody thinking "Yeah, but if you stop the overload before it reaches the control system, you can fix it with a fuse instead of having to replace the central nervous system..."

(the above is entirely tongue-in-cheek, we all know large governments and meddling corporations would NEVER intentionally create that kind of situation for such obviously crass reasons...never...right?)

[Charistoph]

Or maybe, that IS the affect with the fuses...  The pilot only taking 2 Hits from an Ammo/Weapon explosion.

Sometimes what seems bad to us may actually be an improvement over the normal state of affairs.

It's kind of scary thought what may have happened to the early pilots in this scenario...

[DOC_Agren]

That explains the used ones, it does nothing to explain the brand new ones just off the production line that have that same, identical outcome.

To my way of thinking, Fusible linkes or Circuit Breakers must be a sort of "lost technology" that must've been lost in the past-tense sometime in the 1980s of the setting that would evolve Battletech's universe.

People just...forgot what they were.

Maybe even as a global population control measure before the development of cheap space flight and early colonization.  (arranging to have lots of products fail irreparably as part of the 'disposable user' culture-it burns out, so you have to buy the new one that complies with the new state-required restrictions on use, or kill switch, or environmental regs-all of which are really there to enrich connected businesses and state-owned entrprises).
The double=bonus being that failure of critical life support systems and general power grids cutting population growth and the resultant managed scandals helping undermine people's will and ability to resist new restrictions until you get the conditioned response we see with most BT populations- they're docile and submissive and not very smart-but much easier to control.

but somewhere in the mix, the idea of fuses was forgotten by the Ruling Elites too-so they just...don't see a reason for them to exist, even when their son gets his eggs scrambled by a feedback through his neurohelmet.

"Oh, High Tech just WORKS that way!!"

Hence, nobody thinking "Yeah, but if you stop the overload before it reaches the control system, you can fix it with a fuse instead of having to replace the central nervous system..."

(the above is entirely tongue-in-cheek, we all know large governments and meddling corporations would NEVER intentionally create that kind of situation for such obviously crass reasons...never...right?)

I'm sure they would never do as you suggested..

What if that fuse that missing, came from the orginal design that well the designers seemed to not install and there for no one every got to the idea. 

[Maingunnery]

Personally I see it more like a combination of sudden massive change into the neural feedback (not electrical shock) and the explosive shockwave.

But that would also mean that in hindsight, that CASE should have reduce the pilot hit from ammo explosions to 1 and CASE II have it reduce to 0.

[Cannonshop]

Personally I see it more like a combination of sudden massive change into the neural feedback (not electrical shock) and the explosive shockwave.

But that would also mean that in hindsight, that CASE should have reduce the pilot hit from ammo explosions to 1 and CASE II have it reduce to 0.

Shockwave has to transfer from somewhere, which means you've got a waveguide between your ammunition storage and the head of the mech-two components that SHOULD be separated t' begin with, esp. if it can go into space (or under water).

So where did htey put the bones and the joints and the myomers, if you've got open space to channel shockwaves and vibration without attenuation?

[Demiurge]

The game could honestly be improved by taking the old ammo explosion rules out back and doing an Ole Yeller to them.

It doesn't make any sense that ammo explosions, of all things, cause electrical feedback that is carefully channeled and then aimed at the pilot's brain.  Not only does it not make any physical or thematic sense (these people have mastered freaking fusion of all things but they can't make safe electronics?), but ammo weapons, especially in 3025 play, are already at a disadvantage in terms of damage per ton and endurance.  It does not make sense, and has, in retrospect, never made sense to penalize ammo weapons as heavily as the rules do.

"Kill the meat and save the metal!" never made any sense either, as presented. Old fluff had it that only a small percentage of the population synched correctly with mechs, so treating pilots as expendable is risky if that's true. Of course, that idea was a little hard to square with the idea that battlemechs were handed down in families... so either battlemech neurocompatibility *is* genetic, in which case the Clans' silly-sounding eugenics program is actually 100% justified, or whoever wrote that piece of fluff just wasn't thinking about the implications of what they wrote that particular day, and the issue was quietly dropped. In any case, the difference in performance between a green pilot and a veteran one with some skills is self-evident in the actual game, so the idea that anyone would just let mechwarriors die always struck me as very sloppy grimderp writing that was trying to emphasize the brutal inhumanity of the setting while not being congruent with the rest of the internal logic nor the gameplay.

[Maingunnery]

Shockwave has to transfer from somewhere, which means you've got a waveguide between your ammunition storage and the head of the mech-two components that SHOULD be separated t' begin with, esp. if it can go into space (or under water).

So where did htey put the bones and the joints and the myomers, if you've got open space to channel shockwaves and vibration without attenuation?

A shockwave does have to retain its full force in order to effect something, we both know that we are talking about a situation is where the MechWarrior is hurt or stunned, not about a situation in where they have been turned into red mist.
It is all about how much relative energy is reaching the MechWarrior in comparison to situations of: no CASE, CASE, CASE II.

[idea weenie]

I could see it as:
- no CASE - the full force of the Mech's ammo exploding causes whiplash to the pilot from being jerked around.  2 pts of Pilot damage from this shake
- CASE - some of the explosion is vented out, and since the whiplash is not as bad the pilot takes 1 pt of damage


Now one fun option is damage to the pilot being based on remaining damage of ammunition vs the Mech's weight.  A Locust having a ton of Machine Ammo going off will be 400 pts of damage vs a 20-ton Mech, and very noticeable.  A 100-ton Assault Mech having the last shot of Light MG ammo (1 pts of damage) will be 1 pt of damage vs a 100-ton Mech, or 1/2000 the force.

[RifleMech]

If an explosion goes off in the body, the body experiences shock, right? So if the neurohelmet make man and machine one, and an explosion happens inside the mech, shouldn't the man experience shock?

[Cannonshop]

If an explosion goes off in the body, the body experiences shock, right? So if the neurohelmet make man and machine one, and an explosion happens inside the mech, shouldn't the man experience shock?

Okay, now ask what anyone who knows their machine is going to be takng fire are experiencing shock, "What's the simplest way to isolate it from the rest of the structure?"

Shockwaves have to have a medium of transfer, and like pretty much everything else, it will take the easiest pathway or be disrupted by barriers.  The reason Mauser barrels were 'stepped' in military mausers, was to control and disrupt the shock and vibration of firing.

this should suggest a hint.

since we know that the same shockwave hits with the 'mech in vacuum,  what does that suggest about either the theory, or the construction of your 'mech?

HOw about your own body? what attenuates shockwaves from walking so that it doesn't shake and batter your brain?

There's a reason that being shot in your lungs doesn't cause TBI.

You might bleed to death, or drown in your own blood, but it's not being shot in te chest that shakes your brains up.

not even with an explosive bullet.

Given some of the kung fu moves we see 'mechs pull in the official novels (cartwheels??????????) it's extremely unlikely that the structure lacks shock attenuation and absorbing qualities just to make the machines as mobile as they're supposed to be.

Thus, the 'shock transfer' explanation fails on some pretty obvious levels.  Hence the feedback being neural/electrical, which also matches canon descriptions.

Otherwise the pilot would take  significantly less damage from ammo explosions in vacuum-because teh only area that NEEDS pressurization, is the cockpit.  (which also simplifies manufacture and maintenance, you can use resin, paint, or sealant to protect electrical contacts or use corrosion resistant, heat resistant, non-conductive laquer at uninsulated contact points.)

IOW the electrical damage thing makes more sense than having every 'mech designer since the start being ignorant of basic engineering and mechanical principles they knew in the 1800s.

[Maingunnery]

Okay, now ask what anyone who knows their machine is going to be takng fire are experiencing shock, "What's the simplest way to isolate it from the rest of the structure?"

Shockwaves have to have a medium of transfer, and like pretty much everything else, it will take the easiest pathway or be disrupted by barriers.  The reason Mauser barrels were 'stepped' in military mausers, was to control and disrupt the shock and vibration of firing.

this should suggest a hint.

since we know that the same shockwave hits with the 'mech in vacuum,  what does that suggest about either the theory, or the construction of your 'mech?

HOw about your own body? what attenuates shockwaves from walking so that it doesn't shake and batter your brain?

There's a reason that being shot in your lungs doesn't cause TBI.

You might bleed to death, or drown in your own blood, but it's not being shot in te chest that shakes your brains up.

not even with an explosive bullet.

Given some of the kung fu moves we see 'mechs pull in the official novels (cartwheels??????????) it's extremely unlikely that the structure lacks shock attenuation and absorbing qualities just to make the machines as mobile as they're supposed to be.

Thus, the 'shock transfer' explanation fails on some pretty obvious levels.  Hence the feedback being neural/electrical, which also matches canon descriptions.

Otherwise the pilot would take  significantly less damage from ammo explosions in vacuum-because teh only area that NEEDS pressurization, is the cockpit.  (which also simplifies manufacture and maintenance, you can use resin, paint, or sealant to protect electrical contacts or use corrosion resistant, heat resistant, non-conductive laquer at uninsulated contact points.)

IOW the electrical damage thing makes more sense than having every 'mech designer since the start being ignorant of basic engineering and mechanical principles they knew in the 1800s.

The dampening/attenuates of mechanical forces already happens to a degree, as ammo explosions do not reduce mechwarriors to red paste/mist. However there can be a big difference between a rough collision and an internal explosion, so it is not implausible for technology can easily handle the former, but that the latter comes with consequences.
Also the vacuum argument falls flat as breached locations stop working in vacuum (I agree it is a silly abstraction).

[DevianID]

Yeah, the breached locations not working in a vacuum is a pretty big simplification, and the game doesnt care about atmosphere changes so its all odd.  Like, you can take hits in normal atmo, no need to roll breach and you are safe to go under water.  But underwater or in a vacuum, now you need to roll breach checks.  Most of the time you dont transition, but it does come up, and the abstraction's rough edges is noticeable.

As for shockwaves, I think scale is where the Cannonshop breakdown stops working.  Like, yes not a lot of momentum is transferred when mechs take external damage, as you need 20 points and a fall to shake up the pilot enough that they take 1 point of damage, but the momentum ammo explosion theory does 2 damage to mechwarriors with no mitigating roll to avoid it.  But im ok with that, and dont see a problem.  Small internal explosions are just way more terrifying then external ones, so it makes perfect sense that a 20 point internal ammo explosion does worse things to a pilot then 20 points of external ammo explosion.

As for the barrier effect, its not gonna do much.  You get concussed as your brain gets rattled despite the skull barrier, and its held in place pretty tightly in your skull.  Likewise, you shake a mech with some serious Gs, the pilot is gonna get tossed around and battered, even strapped in.  Even 1-2 internal tank rounds are enough to send tank turrets flying when hit, despite the turret NOT flying off when struck by the same rounds externally.  The mech getting tossed from an internal explosion and bumping the pilot into all manner of stuff and sending shockwaves through the mech as it expands and contracts during an internal explosion sound really plausible, way more so then electrical feedback.

As for the ammo explosion damage not mattering for pilot damage, I just take that as part of the game abstraction.  Yes, the internal explosion of mgun ammo is worse then the internal explosion of a gauss rifle, but that is mostly handled by the damage transferring to the CT and vaporizing the mech.  Ammo contained by CASE?  Well, your pilot lives, but battered, as most of the damage goes out the back.  Ammo not contained by case?  Well, if the ammo explosion is big enough, and you dont have auto eject, your pilot, along with every other component on the mech, is dead once the internal CT hits 0 from that AE ammo explosion.  So yeah, mgun explosions DO result in more pilot hits if not prevented by case, while a big mech with a lot of weight to resist momentum can more or less shrug off one gauss explosion (it doesnt core out the CT unless most of the mech is already missing), while a hollander turns the pilot (who didnt auto eject) into paste when it explodes and has more then enough damage to core the CT and make the whole mech a crater, modern tank style.

EDIT: I was picturing the scene in terminator 2 when the grenade goes off in the t1000 and splits him in half, which does way more damage/stagger to the t1000 then anything else in the movie so far, outside the freezing/shattering gimmick.  Thats what I picture happens to a mech, like if you didnt have CASE and get that internal explosion, well now your torso and arm are flying away and your mech is all bent/warped, with the head practically upside down and pilot just dead (again, judging from t1000).  The no salvage thing from internal ammo explosions that are big enough to crack the CT I always liked. 

[Demiurge]

Shockwaves aren't some sort of unstoppable miasma that cause unblockable damage. That isn't how physics works, not a little bit not at all. Strategies like impedance mismatch, phase change materials, and clever geometry are used to mitigate damage from all manner of explosive nastiness today, and the idea that battlemech designers, who, may I remind you, have canonically mastered proton-proton fusion in mass-produced reactors would be helpless before them simply does not scan.  Stop trying to rationalize things that don't make sense with bad physics.

Seriously, the game would be better if the conceit was that battlemech cockpits are thermally and structurally isolated from the rest of the mech to such a good degree that anything which does breech that protection instantly jellys the squishy meatbag inside. I could see maybe a case for the pilot falling unconscious if the mech gets slapped around really hard or falls over, but the entire system of tracking pilot damage from ammo explosions and heat is needless additional bookkeeping in a game that already has a lot of legacy baggage in the form of large numbers of dice rolls to determine event outcomes and large amounts of complex bookkeeping to resolve systems that are decidedly secondary the the purpose of the game.

[DevianID]

Shockwaves aren't some sort of unstoppable miasma that cause unblockable damage...
 I could see maybe a case for the pilot falling unconscious if the mech gets slapped around really hard...

Im getting mixed messages here, as nothing 'slaps' a mech harder then an ammo explosion, by like an order of magnitude in a lot of cases.  Regardless, if you dont like the core gameplay portion of pilot hits, heat and other such book keeping, then the crit table in alpha strike may be more suitable for what you are looking for. 

Ironically, I think the itemized book keeping in btech is much better then the generic table in alpha strike, as the scope of the game in btech is more personal, with a mech sheet conveying about the same data as a dungeons and dragon character sheet.  Pilot hits are one of the few ways to drop a mech without needing to grind through all the armor hit points, and I believe the game design is better served with the inclusion of a few points of failure beyond armor to prevent long grindy max armor all assault mech metagames.  Its why I think the interface cockpit is just really bad for the game, and why I advocate the improved cockpit provide 1 free hit point, not flat damage reduction like the interface cockpit.