'Mech of the Week: WHT-** Whitworth

[Cowdragon]

I found it quite interesting to behold that the entire article doesn't mention the weight of the mech a single time.  ::)

Good point! Especially when I log onto Yahoo! "news" and can't freaking not see how many articles are about Adel or her weight. I DON'T CARE YAHOO!!!!!  >:(

Ok, back to the Whitworth. A mech which I am liking the more I am involved with these discussions.

Some day, when I get more time (maybe when the kids are older? ) I would love to GM a Succession Wars adventure that gives the players the choice of staying a House unit or going Mercenary, or <gasp> even pirate! The mechs they would begin with would be the most ugly and unappreciated little buggers out there. So far, I'm thinking Whitworth, Blackjack, Panther, and not sure on that last one... Charger maybe for kicks. I've found, that if you REALLY want to see the capabilities of a piece of equipment, give it to a player and don't give them much else to work with. They'll work magic with it! :)

[iamfanboy]

I'd actually recommend the Wyvern (the SW-downgraded version) to finish off such a lance. At 4/6/4 it moves to match the rest, has LRMs to support the long-range fight, and has a Large laser and SRMs to fight at close-range too. Or the Enforcer would be good, too.

And so sorry I forgot to mention the weight. :p Considering that I was writing this between creating two presentations for two different classes and creating a thematic unit for teaching children, I can't believe I didn't forget more.

[Colt Ward]

Hmm, seems I am about the only person who likes the WTH-1H.  Though its the guard for a merc 4/6 heavy lance with a lot of long range firepower, which lets it dump the RLs on something that needs to die quick.  It also tends to go to the regular FNGs while veterans get the better designs.

[iamfanboy]

Well, I just don't like RLs on 'Mechs in general. Vehicles, they're AWESOME; being able to barrage an enemy with 6 or 8 RL-20s in a single go, then run for home, makes me grin evilly.

But on 'Mechs, doing the same thing only nets you shutdown or ammo explosion rolls, so essentially RLs become regular ammo weapons - the Whitworth carries an RL-10 with 8 reloads that takes up 8 critical slots and 6 tons, so what's the point of it? May as well have stuck with an SRM-6.

[Scotty]

I'd honestly much rather see a Whitworth with MRMs than RLs.  It's entirely possible to cram a pair of MRM-20s on that frame (with a bit of alteration like switching to ES/XL Gyro, small cockpit, and dropping one of the MLs).  It's not terribly pretty, but possible.

[sandstorm]

Might be worth it to do either multiple MRM-10's or straight-up MRM-30 or -40 then.

The multiple launcher-approach could cover the to-hit penalty, while bigger launcher makes for more effective 'duck your head, sucker' salvo.

[Cowdragon]

Might be worth it to do either multiple MRM-10's or straight-up MRM-30 or -40 then.

The multiple launcher-approach could cover the to-hit penalty, while bigger launcher makes for more effective 'duck your head, sucker' salvo.

I'm actually in love with the MRM-40's. I have a 35 ton 3/5/3 little Militiamech that is amazing for just that. It hides under ECM from its companions behind cover and FOOSH!!! It only has 6 rounds of ammo, but is lucky to get off 3 of those before things go badly for it or everything is out of range again. But it keeps enemies from taking THAT part of the map without loosing too much to be worth it :)

[anime ninja]

A pair of Whitworths WHT-1s and a pair of Panthers work well together.

Yes they do.  That was the base of my DC light fire lance in a 3015 game.  The 2xPPC for direct and 40LRMs for in direct.  The only problem it had was heavy units that could soak the damage and get in close.  6xML and 8SRMs were not much at point blank for 4 mechs.  In a double blind game, that lance can be very scary.

[Paladin1]

I think an XO would make it to vulnerable, even at 6/9.  I'd rather use tonnage savings to keep the speed profile and upgrade the LRM launchers, and stay as an indirect fire platform.

Actually, you can switch out the twin LRM-10's for quad LRM-5s, which frees up two tons and allows you to mount a 200 Nissan, allowing you a movement profile of 5/8/4 with no loss of effectiveness.  It also makes the Whitworth able to pace the Valkyrie, just so you know...

[Nahuris]

Resurrecting this thread .....

Primarily, because I like this little monster, and feel it needs a touch more love.

In a recent game against my girlfriend.... I paired a 3025 Whitworth with my Osprey.... and found that even on a Jihad battlefield, there is a place for the Whitworth.
It not only survived the battle, but between the MML7 and Gauss on the Osprey, plus the twin LRM10's..... anything that got targeted, got hurt.

I really think that TPTB need to re-consider this design, and rewrite the fluff for it... because the fluff, as it is, is wrong.

Nahuris

[Charlie Tango]

How did I miss this thread?


Ah,  the Whitworth... my precioussss....

Yeah I have an unreasonable affection for the Whitworth.  I just feel it is really one of the best-designed of the 'Mechs at the 3025 era.  Consider:

It is the lightest 'Mech of all introductory tech that can in theory cause a PSR at a range over 9 (you have to go 10 tons higher for the next).

It can run and fire both primary weapons with no heat buildup.  It can run and fire its three secondary weapons with only one heat point built up.

Its damage curve is consistent from range 21 to range 1.

Near max armor (9 pts shy of maximum for its weight).

Mobility of 4/6/4 is comparable or better than many 'mechs of similar role of any weight.

Unlike the similar (but 25 tons heavier) Catapult design, the Whitworth can at least offer some resistance to an attack from the rear. In addition, each rear torso can take a medium laser hit without going internal.

Ammo is decently-well protected critical-slot wise within the torsos.

Yes, it's slow for its size.  But for its *role*,  it's a REALLY solid design.  It's really the epitome of the "speed, armor, firepower. Pick two" aesthetic.


As far as the later ones, we don't talk about the WTH-2.  We. Don't. Talk. About. It.  Until you play Alpha Strike and then it's superior to the original.

The SRM-6 one is OK (I like the Javelin better) , and the rest of the variants are pretty meh until you get to the K.  You lose a little bit of the long range firepower but those ML 7's at shorter range are devastating, and the 5 jump from the IJJ's gives the Whit-K that crucial extra TMM +1 that can often make all the difference.  I got to pilot one of these in this year's Masters & Minions game at Gen Con and it was devastating, and more than once that extra +1 TMM made the trio of  Nova Cat A's that I was up against, miss me instead of hit.

[martian]

As far as the later ones, we don't talk about the WTH-2.  We. Don't. Talk. About. It.  Until you play Alpha Strike and then it's superior to the original.

In this case, I would rather take the older and more modest WTH-1 than this one.

[Wrangler]

Lets not forget about the infantry/civilian murder machines the WHT-0.

[O5P_Ghost]

I love this little guy a lot more than I should. It works great (3025) as a light or mech mech lance ID fire support or I had a custom variant that ripped out the LRM's and put in 5 SRM 4s. It was part of a light urban lance that was DCMScentric (Panther, Jenner, Whitworth V and a stock Whitworth).

The Jenner would spot for the WHT1 and as the enemy drove in to squash that the panther the my WHT V would open up with crit seaking goodness. If it was bad ..jump away.

I love the WTH K in the jihad.

[Kitsune413]

Whenever I roll up a random 3025 force I always end up with a Whitworth. Its always served me well. Park it next to that Trebuchet that you always get behind some trees and drop in the indirect lrm fire. If anybody goes in to fish them out you fire all of those lasers at them.

Always a good time.

[Charlie Tango]

In this case, I would rather take the older and more modest WTH-1 than this one.

In Alpha Strike the WTH2 gives you better IF and otherwise identical stats for one less PV

[martian]

In Alpha Strike the WTH2 gives you better IF and otherwise identical stats for one less PV

I meant in the BattleTech, not in Alpha Strike.
(but it's interesting that in the Alpha Strike it has the same short-range firepower, even though it lacks two Medium Lasers)

[Alexander Knight]

I meant in the BattleTech, not in Alpha Strike.
(but it's interesting that in the Alpha Strike it has the same short-range firepower, even though it lacks two Medium Lasers)

Ah, but the WTH-1 also overstresses its heat sinks.  2 LRM-10s, 3 Medium Lasers, and a Jump of 4 generates 21 heat and it can only dissipate 10.

21 (damage) * 10 (Dissipation) / 17 (buildup-4) = 12
As for the WTH-2:
13 (damage) * 10 (Dissipation) / 11 (Buildup-4) = 11

Both round to 2 damage.

[Sabelkatten]

Ah, but the WTH-1 also overstresses its heat sinks.  2 LRM-10s, 3 Medium Lasers, and a Jump of 4 generates 21 heat and it can only dissipate 10.

21 (damage) * 10 (Dissipation) / 17 (buildup-4) = 12
As for the WTH-2:
13 (damage) * 10 (Dissipation) / 11 (Buildup-4) = 11

Both round to 2 damage.

15 damage that can actually hit the target (3 MLs at short range) is much better than ~16 damage that can't hit (LRMs at short range).

Approximate damage on target at range 3:
WTH-1 ~11 (heat-1)
WTH-2 ~10 (heat+1)  or ~7 (heat-1)

Effectively the WTH-1 puts out about 30% more firepower at short range and isn't bothered by ECM, which is why it has a higher BV. But the roundings of AS eliminates this.

But at least it's not BF1. The Rifleman was better than some clan mechs in that game... ::)

[TigerShark]

Misspelled the designation for the Whitworth.

WHT -> WTH

[Alexander Knight]

15 damage that can actually hit the target (3 MLs at short range) is much better than ~16 damage that can't hit (LRMs at short range).

Which is why a Medium Laser does 5 damage at short range and an LRM-10 does 3.
Unless it has Artemis IV, in which case it does 4.  The problem is that the WTH-1 lacks heat sinks.

[Colt Ward]

Not sure about you, but I generally do not fire IS LRM10s at range 3 . . . unless I know the mech is going down this turn.

[Weirdo]

Not sure about you, but I generally do not fire IS LRM10s at range 3 . . . unless I know the mech is going down this turn.

That's why the damage is less. Since Alpha Strike's level of detail only onvilves 'shooting weapons' or 'not shooting weapons' with little control over which weapons you shoot, the damage for ones with minimum ranges is reduced at short range, since you're not likely to shoot them at that range, and even if you did, it wouldn't hit as often.

Basically, the reduced damage is saying that if you somehow had a fight that stayed at 3 hexes' range the whole time, your medium laser would statistically inflict more damage on the enemy than your LRM-10. Therefore, the LRM's contribution to your total damage is reduced at that range to below that of the laser.

[Alexander Knight]

Not sure about you, but I generally do not fire IS LRM10s at range 3 . . . unless I know the mech is going down this turn.

Fair enough, but on the flip side, the WTH-2 has a single laser and 2 LRM packs.  It generates 11 heat from firing all the guns, a far cry from the 17 of the WTH-1.

So it's a lot easier for that WTH-2 pilot to pull the trigger.  At which point he does 5+4+4 = 13 damage vs the 5+5+5 = 15 damage that the WTH-1 generates without using his missiles.  The damage potential is a lot closer there.