The Rasalhague Dominion: Friend of a Friend (but not your Friend)

[Deadborder]

Yeah, it sucks that somebody held the Bears back from being genocidal baby-murdering bastards.

[WarGod]

then again how many FFR units are there?  Nothing wrong here boys only our freeborns use c3

[Deadborder]

then again how many FFR units are there?  Nothing wrong here boys only our freeborns use c3

And only your freeborns used C3 while murdering Nova Cat civilians. You're having a hard time convincing me that the Bears were wronged here.

[marauder648]

The TRO did indicate that there was clan Omni's that seemed to be using the C3I system or were built to support it. No mention of who their pilots were if they were former FRR Mechwarriors or Bear Clansmen.

[WeaponX]

And only your freeborns used C3 while murdering Nova Cat civilians. You're having a hard time convincing me that the Bears were wronged here.

Bah, its just standard practice for wiping out a Dark Caste nest.  No need to even declare a Trial of Annihilation, though that's what should have been done to clear things up on why they were wiping out the Dark Caste "Nova Cat" civilians.

[Foxx Ital]

Yeah, it sucks that somebody held the Bears back from being genocidal baby-murdering bastards.

Maybe they shouldn't have tried to steal our picnic basket!! ey booboo?

[SteveRestless]

Maybe they shouldn't have tried to steal our picnic basket!! ey booboo?

So does that make the republic Ranger Smith?

[Jellico]

Less an issue with C3 and more an issue with Omega and certain Arctic Clusters needing to have been reigned in long ago.

Really. You give a Rasalhagian advanced weaponry and tell them not to hurt the warriors of the Coordinator?

[ActionButler]

Really. You give a Rasalhagian advanced weaponry and tell them not to hurt the warriors of the Coordinator?

That... may have been a bit optimistic, yeah.

[Deadborder]

Less an issue with C3 and more an issue with Omega and certain Arctic Clusters needing to have been reigned in long ago.

Really. You give a Rasalhagian advanced weaponry and tell them not to hurt the warriors of the Coordinator?

It's more of the "putting civilians to the torch" thing that's the issue.

[Foxx Ital]

It's more of the "putting civilians to the torch" thing that's the issue.

Maybe they shouldn't have been dark caste then? Bandits get the Frankenstein treatment  O:-) Pitch forks and torches for everybody!!

[Deadborder]

Maybe they shouldn't have been dark caste then? Bandits get the Frankenstein treatment  O:-) Pitch forks and torches for everybody!!

And there's the problem right there and then. The Bears invaded a neighboring state and massacred their civilians without a single thought as to the consequences of their actions or if what they were doing was 'wrong' in any way, shape or form. This had come after decades of living in the Inner Sphere and sharing their worlds with Inner Sphere populations who tend not to like it when their allies turn out to be baby-murdering bastards. What might seem perfectly fine and fair under claw law doesn't work in the Inner Sphere, and the Bears should have been aware of that by that point. However, their leader gets a little hot under the collar and all of a sudden it's perfectly okay for them to be putting civilians to the torch for the sake of it.

The Bears have no room to complain about suffering the consequences of their actions. If anything, they weren't punished nearly enough.

[Foxx Ital]

And there's the problem right there and then. The Bears invaded a neighboring state and massacred their civilians without a single thought as to the consequences of their actions or if what they were doing was 'wrong' in any way, shape or form. This had come after decades of living in the Inner Sphere and sharing their worlds with Inner Sphere populations who tend not to like it when their allies turn out to be baby-murdering bastards. What might seem perfectly fine and fair under claw law doesn't work in the Inner Sphere, and the Bears should have been aware of that by that point. However, their leader gets a little hot under the collar and all of a sudden it's perfectly okay for them to be putting civilians to the torch for the sake of it.

The Bears have no room to complain about suffering the consequences of their actions. If anything, they weren't punished nearly enough.

Thats because you run with the bear or from it! ....good luck on the running from it  ;) you don't go into the bear cave and poke the bear then act surprised when it eats you,your baby and that adorable baby sitter across the street  O:-) We pretty much did to them what bun bun does to telemarketers  ;D

[MidfieldMarauder]

The Bears have no room to complain about suffering the consequences of their actions. If anything, they weren't punished nearly enough.

Umm, what consequences did the Bears suffer? It's not like they "lost" the Second War. Did any of the other Clans in the Council of Six have anything to say about it, or, more importantly, did they do anything about it?

[Foxx Ital]

the council of six is a joke. There isn't anything they could have done really. Even when they do pass measures to censure another clan it gets ignored.

[MidfieldMarauder]

the council of six is a joke. There isn't anything they could have done really. Even when they do pass measures to censure another clan it gets ignored.

Exactly. It would take a massive coordinated series of operations from multiple nations (who do not get along at all) for the Bears to be "properly punished" for anything, ever.

[Kojak]

I wouldn't say there were no consequences, because the Bears basically lost their dominance within the Dominion as a result: the Elected-Prince was placed above the Khan in the government hierarchy, and the Unity Council was changed to include equal numbers of trueborn warriors, freeborn warriors and civilians (the Council also gained the ability to override both the Khan and Elected-Prince). So the ability of the Bears to exert control over the policy of the RasDom post-war was severely constrained. I don't think it's a coincidence that there hasn't really been a major war instigated by the Bears since then. Even the stuff with the Vega Protectorate was peacekeeping operations on war-torn and functionally abandoned worlds, rather than the traditional "Rarg! Me conquer!" stuff the Clans are usually up to.

[Foxx Ital]

I wouldn't say there were no consequences, because the Bears basically lost their dominance within the Dominion as a result: the Elected-Prince was placed above the Khan in the government hierarchy, and the Unity Council was changed to include equal numbers of trueborn warriors, freeborn warriors and civilians (the Council also gained the ability to override both the Khan and Elected-Prince). So the ability of the Bears to exert control over the policy of the RasDom post-war was severely constrained. I don't think it's a coincidence that there hasn't really been a major war instigated by the Bears since then. Even the stuff with the Vega Protectorate was peacekeeping operations on war-torn and functionally abandoned worlds, rather than the traditional "Rarg! Me conquer!" stuff the Clans are usually up to.

I chalk it up to the bears pretty much always sleeping untill they're poked...at which point you get a very big over reaction.

[GBscientist]

I chalk it up to the bears pretty much always sleeping untill they're poked...at which point you get a very big over reaction.

I agree.

I will add the caveat that the Falcons have been poking the Bears a bit much of late, as described in FM 3145.  I'm hoping for some kind of massive counter-reaction to hit the Jade Falcons in the next storyline extension, because Malvin Hazen has burned through everyone's patience with her antics by now.

[marauder648]

I'd say the Bears will go across the border against the Falcons eventually, but ONLY if they are poked first.  The Dominion did not launch attacks against the Draconis combine until they were hit first and then when they hit back it was a HUGE escalation, not a tit for tat IS style 'war' where a planet or two changes hands but *WILD GHOST BEAR GALAXIES APPEAR*

I think if Mad Malvina pokes the Bears or tries to provoke them or does a Mongol attack on them then the Bears will hit back and hit back HARD which will make the Falcons hit back just as hard.  If they go to war it will be bloody as all hell.  But they are not really ones to pre-emptively hit.

[marauder648]

Exactly. It would take a massive coordinated series of operations from multiple nations (who do not get along at all) for the Bears to be "properly punished" for anything, ever.

I would say the DCMS could do it but they are a touch busy with the Davions at the moment so can't really do anything.

[Atlas3060]

I'm hoping for some kind of massive counter-reaction to hit the Jade Falcons in the next storyline extension, because Malvin Hazen has burned through everyone's patience with her antics by now.

By the Founders that's going to be funny.
Malvina poking at the Bears, they respond, and the Horses pull away from the Mongol Doctrine and hole up.
With the Dracs looking at their metaphorical watches replying, "Oh look at the time gotta go!"
All while the ghost of Beckett Malthus screaming at Hazen, "We have no nice things quiaff? THIS is one of the reasons why surat!"

[Pa Weasley]

Maybe they shouldn't have been dark caste then? Bandits get the Frankenstein treatment  O:-) Pitch forks and torches for everybody!!

Yep Dark Caste. That's why the Bears were PO'ed that the Nova Cat Rangers refused heigra to the remaining Third Bear Guard forces on Halesowen. You just assume Dark Caste are going to accept that offer and behave under typical Clan codes of conduct. Yep, Bears totally worked under the idea that all Nova Cats were Dark Caste.

And that raid was the only one that occurred on either side of the border at that time, obviously.

[Jellico]

Omega was conceived as a kind of Knights of the Sphere. Using IS tactics with Clan honour. A narrow path to tread.
While the original Omega could stick to the path, the rapid turnover of troops during the Jihad diluted the pool of senior Warriors removing the honour and leaving the IS tactics. IS tactics most recently learned during the Jihad.

Omega has been a problem ever since. All Clan Warriors will commit genocide if it is part of the rules of engagement. Omega's rules of engagement are use the other side's tactics, and those tactics can be pretty brutal. Remember drawing Clan 'Mechs into close quarter city fights? So after a WoB education where regular Bear units were killing everybody anyway do you think Omega would have blinked at killing civilians to get the job done?

Without the honour Omega was just an accident waiting to happen and remains that way in 3145. Just a different sort of accident by then.

As for the Rasalhagians. 300 years of brutal suppression tends to leave a grudge. Sew the wind, reap the whirlwind etc. Shame it was the Nova Cats that got in the road.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

By the Founders that's going to be funny.
Malvina poking at the Bears, they respond, and the Horses pull away from the Mongol Doctrine and hole up.
With the Dracs looking at their metaphorical watches replying, "Oh look at the time gotta go!"
All while the ghost of Beckett Malthus screaming at Hazen, "We have no nice things quiaff? THIS is one of the reasons why surat!"

I mean the Bears have been sparing a bit with the Horses and their Mongol style units: and the battles have gone even really based on the combination of the units involved. However, if Malvina does do something stupid to the Bears the bears will respond in kind.

ALPHA, BETA, RHO, RASALHAGUE, TUNDRA, OMEGA, and the RASALHAGUE (With appropriate Valkyrie Clusters added).

Some combination of those Galaxies will burn hard for Falcon space and say to the Horses... "I dare you".

Corse this means a shift of the rest of their Touman north and east ward on the galactic plane, and that means their left with half their Galaxies in their own territory which might not end well. So I'm hoping the Horses help the Bears in this case.

[Atlas3060]

Omega was conceived as a kind of Knights of the Sphere. Using IS tactics with Clan honour. A narrow path to tread.
While the original Omega could stick to the path, the rapid turnover of troops during the Jihad diluted the pool of senior Warriors removing the honour and leaving the IS tactics. IS tactics most recently learned during the Jihad.

That explains why I tend to like Omega.
I mean I knew they used Spheroid tactics, but I didn't realize how dark they could get until well after the Jihad writings.
That's when I realized "Well geez I went Clan Sith Galaxy."

So I'm hoping the Horses help the Bears in this case.

I hope so too. Compared to Hazen, the Bear do have their dark spots (Omega and Aletha Kabrinski).
The difference being at the moment they are under control, once again compared to "Blood for the Blood God" Hazen.
Poor Horses are in a bit of a situation, back the wrong one and they are the next Smoke Jag or Nova Cat story.

[WarGod]

so are we taking bets on the falcons or horses getting smoked?

[Atlas3060]

My money is on Falcons, they've had it coming a looooooong time.
If it weren't for the Jags, I think they would have died in the late 60's.
Horses then rise to be a new prominent faction somehow.

[WeaponX]

Yep Dark Caste. That's why the Bears were PO'ed that the Nova Cat Rangers refused heigra to the remaining Third Bear Guard forces on Halesowen. You just assume Dark Caste are going to accept that offer and behave under typical Clan codes of conduct. Yep, Bears totally worked under the idea that all Nova Cats were Dark Caste.

While there might have been some doubt as to whether the Nova Cats were Dark Caste or not, the Nova Cat Rangers refusal for Hegira and massacaring the trapped Bear forces simply because they wanted additional salvage only served to prove that the Cats really were Dark Caste and so should be treated as such from that point onwards.  IMO if the Cats had acted with honor regardless of some percieved dishonor the Bears gave them, that would have come a long way in shifting the Bears opinion of them towards a more positive note and perhaps even helped in normalizing relations between the two.  But no, the Cats had to go for the tit for tat game, and the Bears don't just go tit for tat, they go tit for TAT!!!, or in other words, if you come at them with fists they will come at you with a knife, if with a knife they will come at you with a gun and so on.

[Foxx Ital]

The ghost Bears are the kind of clan that when they feel slighted, they find out what you were afraid of as a child then choose a camo that resembles a clown or mime. Operation Sparkles the frown clown!