Augmented Lances and Related Force Configurations

[CapellanCompetence]

Hello all, this is my first time making a topic and all on these forums, so hopefully I'm doing it right and in the right place.
In any case, with the Mercenaries KickStarter just a few short days away I figured it might be worthwhile to get some pointers related to some of the lore that I'm not quite so familiar with. So from my reading on SARNA and some of the other community wikis as well as on these forms, I understand that the Capellan Confederation regularly made use of so-called "Augmented Lances" which are essentially a lance with an added supporting element. For battlemechs, it was fairly typical to have a lance of battlemechs supported by two vehicles. But there are other variations on this formula with mechs being supported by battlearmor, or vehicle lances being supported by mechs- and there are a few more variations beyond those as well.

This being said, what I haven't been able to find is if there was any standardized or expected set of units that might typically form an augmented lance in any of these variations. So I was wondering if anyone has seen any lore resources that might hold the answer to what sorts of units typically were used in the various forms of Augmented lances. I'm hoping that with a bit more information I might be able to start planning a bit around what units to pick up during the KickStarter for the combined arms components, and then seeing about picking up any mechs I'm missing for my forces so that I can better replicate some of these unit formations and organizations.

[AlphaMirage]

I don't think there were any standards in the lore. What I've typically done is pair mechs with vehicles that compensate for their flaws. This basically means that heavy slow units get a faster strike element such as a Regulator or similar hovercraft to chase after flankers or sink their teeth into the enemy's back while the mechs savage their front. Meanwhile lighter units without as much armor or firepower are paired with something like a Von Luckner or Behemoth that can sustain damage and contribute fire while the Mechs flank. If you use that framework to make an AugLance you are on a pretty good path.

[Colt Ward]

Six . . . 4 of the primary (IE, mechs) and 2 of the supporting.

Down side is the Cappies did not really go in for the 1 BA coming out- the IS Standard- BUT . . . the Behemoth? or a pair of Pegasus?  (Huh, I would swear the plural of Pegusus had some i's but I cannot find it . . . )  My understanding is the Augmented Lances were a post-Clan Invasion thing, not something implemented during Romano's reign when the Cappies were weak on the 'heavy' end of the spectrum- like making NO assaults.  It would have been appropriate during her time- Cataphract, Vindicator (if you have it from Beginner Box), Raven, and . . . Thunderbolt?  Then use the KS tanks- Demolishers, Behemoth or Ontos, mix them or use the pairs and presto!  Augmented Lance

[CapellanCompetence]

I don't think there were any standards in the lore. What I've typically done is pair mechs with vehicles that compensate for their flaws. This basically means that heavy slow units get a faster strike element such as a Regulator or similar hovercraft to chase after flankers or sink their teeth into the enemy's back while the mechs savage their front. Meanwhile lighter units without as much armor or firepower are paired with something like a Von Luckner or Behemoth that can sustain damage and contribute fire while the Mechs flank. If you use that framework to make an AugLance you are on a pretty good path.

Ah. Yeah, this was basically my plan if there weren't any examples in the lore. I figure pairing something like Ravens with some LRM carriers would be pretty potent too- though I've still got to get around to picking up the Ravens. Another thing I considered was to pair some heavy tanks with a heavy or assault lance, and just having a very concentrated force to use as a sledgehammer. The tanks, having much of their armament in turrets, would make decent flank guards for the heavies and assault mechs.

[Colt Ward]

You could PROBABLY order Clan Invasion packs through this KS though nothing has been said and the only reason I think that is you could order the GoAC box in the previous KS.

I think the typical expectation with a Augmented Lance is that whatever you attach compensates for a weakness in the primary units . . . so the pair of LRM Carriers & Raven is a good call, but IMO the other mechs would have to be skirmishers thus relying on the LRM Carriers for the 'heavy' damage . . MAYBE the lance has a Archer or better a Crusader L to help protect the vulnerable vehicles.  Leaves the other 2 mech slots open to something like a Assassin, Phoenix Hawk, or Cicada?

[pokefan548]

Augmented Lances were adopted by the Capellan Confederation in small quantities towards the beginning of the Xin Sheng movement, from memory. They started really being standardized during the Dark Age, with even the Warrior Houses adopting them.

There were, to my knowledge, no real guidelines for which vehicles were paired up with which 'Mechs. It was mostly dictated by what vehicles fit that lance and that regiment's doctrine, limited by what was available. A line lance of troopers may be paired with Bulldogs, a scout or assault lance may be given a pair of Pegasi to help scout or flank the enemy, a sniper lance may pack a Partisan or gauss tank, and so on.

[AlphaMirage]

While they were only written about in the Civil War era the CCAF has long been one of combined arms as they couldn't manufacture many heavy mechs. Thus tanks were often substituted throughout the Succession Wars so it is highly plausible that there was already some precedent but they just replaced mechs for tanks one for one rather than one or the other being added to the formation.

[Ghaz]

The Augmented Lance is covered in Field Manual: Capellan Confederation.  there's the Augmented 'Mech Lance with 4 'Mechs and either 2 vehicles or battlesuit squads and the Augmented Armor Lance with 4 vehicles and either 2 'Mechs or 2 battlesuit squads.  I'm hoping we'll see a more in-depth look at Augumented Lances, Companies, etc. when Force Manual Capellan Confederation makes its appearance.

[Grizzly]

Six . . . 4 of the primary (IE, mechs) and 2 of the supporting.

Down side is the Cappies did not really go in for the 1 BA coming out- the IS Standard- BUT . . .

I wouldn't say that. The Confederation invented the IS Standard (LRR) model around 3061, and in IlClan Era the Confederation has twice as many IS Standard manufacturing sites as anyone else per the Rec Guide.

[Colt Ward]

I wouldn't say that. The Confederation invented the IS Standard (LRR) model around 3061, and in IlClan Era the Confederation has twice as many IS Standard manufacturing sites as anyone else per the Rec Guide.

I was looking at 3050s . . . the FedCom & Dracs did the IS Std first, then went to their 2.0 set up with Cavalier and Raiden respectively (and unfortunate their differences are only cosmetic now) and started retiring the more generic IS Stds.

[Grizzly]

Welcome, citizen!

Field Manual: Capellan Confederation is the sourcebook that best explains the augmented lance. Common configurations include:

4 mechs + 2 vehicles
4 mechs + 2 squads of Battle Armor
4 vehicles + 2 squads of Battle Armor

And less commonly:
4 vehicles + 2 mechs
4 squads of battle armor + 2 mechs

This formation began appearing around 3061 and gradually became the norm over the next 25 years.

An augmented battlemech battalion would be organized as three or four companies, each of two augmented lances.

Glory to the Confederation!

[Grizzly]

While they were only written about in the Civil War era the CCAF has long been one of combined arms as they couldn't manufacture many heavy mechs. Thus tanks were often substituted throughout the Succession Wars so it is highly plausible that there was already some precedent but they just replaced mechs for tanks one for one rather than one or the other being added to the formation.

This is true. House Liao set in 3025 notes many mech regiments where the third battalion is now composed of motorized infantry or tanks due to lack of replacement mechs.

[Grizzly]

I was looking at 3050s . . . the FedCom & Dracs did the IS Std first, then went to their 2.0 set up with Cavalier and Raiden respectively (and unfortunate their differences are only cosmetic now) and started retiring the more generic IS Stds.

Ah true. The TRO entry for the second Capellan battle suit says that by the jihad the first Capellan suit still wasn't available to most regiments. I assume the IS Standard made up much of the difference.

[CapellanCompetence]

Welcome, citizen!

Field Manual: Capellan Confederation is the sourcebook that best explains the augmented lance. Common configurations include:

4 mechs + 2 vehicles
4 mechs + 2 squads of Battle Armor
4 vehicles + 2 squads of Battle Armor

And less commonly:
4 vehicles + 2 mechs
4 squads of battle armor + 2 mechs

This formation began appearing around 3061 and gradually became the norm over the next 25 years.

An augmented battlemech battalion would be organized as three or four companies, each of two augmented lances.

Glory to the Confederation!

Thanks for sharing. I'd seen some of this information prior, but the details you've added about the dates of introduction and the company level organization certainly helps. The main thing I was wondering was more so if there were particular mechs or vehicles that were used for the various augmented lance types of units.

[Grizzly]

Thanks for sharing. I'd seen some of this information prior, but the details you've added about the dates of introduction and the company level organization certainly helps. The main thing I was wondering was more so if there were particular mechs or vehicles that were used for the various augmented lance types of units.

That varies entirely by regiment and the field manuals give more detail in some cases than others. You're on sturdy ground to do what you like.

[truetanker]

CapellanCompetence,

Welcome first to the boards, secondly to your new home on Capella!

Ask ye questions and us grognards, will try to remember stuff of yore.

And from my memory files:

Paired LRM Carriers
Catapult-A1
Thunderbolt-5SE
Raven-3L
Wasp-1L (smoke missiles)

Cat was CO, ranged out the LRMs, Carriers provided more support, Raven tested the waters slightly ahead of the Wasp, which in turned Smoked the area heavily while falling back. Thud was the main bodyguard.

Add in a second Aug Lance of dual Thuds (Standard 5S, 5SS), a Hunchie-4J and a Hot Hammer, aka Warhammer-6L. Supporting these with paired Pegasi!

Running this as a Shock Force to your Command Fire Support. Both units can be played as is or combined.

Have fun MechWarrior!

TT

[Hellraiser]

4 mechs + 2 vehicles
4 mechs + 2 squads of Battle Armor
4 vehicles + 2 squads of Battle Armor

And less commonly:
4 vehicles + 2 mechs
4 squads of battle armor + 2 mechs

Are you sure about that?

I think there is only 4 versions & your splitting them into 2 different things.

4 Mechs + 2 Vees
4 Mechs + 2 BA Squads

4 Vees + 2 Mechs
4 Vees + 4 BA Squads


I don't have my FM close by but I swore it was always a 4+2 except for the Vee/BA that was 4+4

[Hellraiser]

As for the OP.

I'd start with things that are produced in the Cap Con when it comes to Vees.

Those are going to be the most common.

Then tinker w/ some Generic but NOT produced by them stuff.

I'd avoid things that are neither generic or produced in the CC.   

[BrianDavion]

welcome to the forums Capellan Competance (love that name BTW I'm a sucker for Oxymorons and irony :) )


as for whats used in augmented lances the answer is "it depends" NO inner sphere power has sufficant battlemechs of a type to have a hard orginizational scheme of "this mech, this armor type etc"

they have to make due. an augmented lance will, as others said useally supplement the lance. although specialist augmented lances likely exist too. I'm sure there are some nasty "urban lances" that consist of all short range mechs and tanks.
Actually a "uran lance" of 2 hetzers, 2 SRM carriers and 2 Urban mechs would be kinda fun for a capellan garrison force

[truetanker]

Are you sure about that?

I think there is only 4 versions & your splitting them into 2 different things.

4 Mechs + 2 Vees
4 Mechs + 2 BA Squads

4 Vees + 2 Mechs
4 Vees + 4 BA Squads


I don't have my FM close by but I swore it was always a 4+2 except for the Vee/BA that was 4+4

^
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Inner_Sphere_military_structure#Lance

TT

[Hellraiser]

^
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Inner_Sphere_military_structure#Lance

TT

Thanks, that's how I remembered it.

Their first successful experiment created an augmented 'Mech lance that combined four BattleMechs with two combat vehicles.
A "secondary" augmented 'Mech lance was created by combining four BattleMechs with two squads of battle armored infantry.
The "standard" augmented armor lance combines four combat vehicles with two BattleMechs;
the "secondary" augmented armor lance combines four combat vehicles with four squads of battle armor-equipped infantry.

[truetanker]

Too bad, they do not use the standard Infantry in these units.

TT

[Hellraiser]

Meh, I think its because BA can "ride" units & keep up with them.

Besides leg infantry can essentially follow the same concept by just being "mechanized".
Nothing says a 3 Platoon Infantry Company can't have a 4th Platoon of APCs, or a Battalion having a 4th Company, etc etc.

The old 4th SW mechanized regiment TO&E charts have the formations as a Battalion each of Foot Infantry, Motorized Infantry, & Light Tanks.
Myself, I like to use things like Heavy APC (Weapon) versions for a lot of those "tank" slots, and Goblins/Maxims, so that the Leg battalion can move around more.

[truetanker]

Pegasus Unarmed
Prowler Succession Wars
Saladin "Clan" Cargo, if it is good enough for them, why can't it be good enough before them?
Swift Wind ICE Cargo
Maultier
Maxim (Many Flavors)
Heavy APC (Many Flavors)
Blizzard (Two Flavors)
Goblin (Many Flavors)

All the above carry a minimum of 3 tons or more.

TT

[Caesar Steiner for Archon]

Meh, I think its because BA can "ride" units & keep up with them.

Also the invention of the Mag Clamp neatly allowed MechWarriors to make it the infantry's fault if they can't. Instead of "I didn't get an OmniMech so you can't ride on me" it's "if you wanted to ride on me you'd have a suit with clamps!"

[Kerfuffin(925)]

Also the invention of the Mag Clamp neatly allowed MechWarriors to make it the infantry's fault if they can't. Instead of "I didn't get an OmniMech so you can't ride on me" it's "if you wanted to ride on me you'd have a suit with clamps!"

How is that ever an individual warriors fault? It’s down to the quartermasters and to some extent to manufacturers/design and requisition generals.

[worktroll]

Fa Shih is wonderful, you can tack them on anything! I'm particularly fond of a platoon of Regulators with 4 squads of Fa Shih making the Keystone Kops noises.

[Natasha Kerensky]

This battalion is entirely composed of augmented lances:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/non-canon-units/paget's-dragoons-1st-batt-toe-46418/msg1070309/#msg1070309

[Hellraiser]

That's a big battalion.
4 Companies & a Command Lance, all of them Augmented...
58 combat "units/counters"
14.5 "Standard" Lances/Platoons
28 Mechs, 22 Vees, 8 BA Squads

My only suggestion is if it would be possible to create some of the 2M/4V & 4M/2BA options using a couple of the Mech/Vee units & the Fa-Shih./Regulator Lance.

[Natasha Kerensky]

That's a big battalion.
4 Companies & a Command Lance, all of them Augmented...
58 combat "units/counters"
14.5 "Standard" Lances/Platoons
28 Mechs, 22 Vees, 8 BA Squads

Not really that big.  A standard mech battalion with command lance has 13 lances and 40 mechs, vice 14.5 lances and 26 mechs for Paget’s Dragoons.  Combat vehicles and battle armor just don’t have the survivability of mechs.  So any unit built from augmented lances will need to be oversized to some degree in order to compete with the equivalent mech unit.  I dunno if the canon says this, but my head cannon is that augmented lances are about stretching Cappie mech resources that remain limited after the destruction of the 4th Succession War.  Fewer mechs but bigger companies, battalions, or regiments when combat vehicles and BA are counted.

What I tried to do with Paget’s Dragoons was build augmented lances around a single, asymmetric, Cappie “dirty trick” tactic, like stealth armor, massed LB-X cluster, incendiary attacks, or TSM-augmented physical attacks.  And then I paired complementary lances together in companies.  Stealthed lances blow big holes in enemy armor at range for faster cavalry companies with massed LB-X cluster to exploit.  Incendiary lances slow down and cripple enemy units for TSM companies to deliver physicals.  And then I threw in some Arrow IV, indirect fire, and mechanized BA support at the top and bottom of the TO&E.  The unit and lance pairings may be useful to the OP.

My only suggestion is if it would be possible to create some of the 2M/4V & 4M/2BA options using a couple of the Mech/Vee units & the Fa-Shih./Regulator Lance.

Paget’s command lance is 2M/4V.  Since they’re intended to close, the Heavy Cavalry and Shock Lances could switch out their vehicles for BA.  But I was trying to double down on LB-X with Predators in the Heavy Cavalry Lances and providing some recon/Arrow IV spotting/inferno support with Pegasi in the Shock Lance.  Fa Shih don’t really provide those capabilities, and the available omnimechs just aren’t as good as other designs in their lance roles.