MotW: Champion

[ANS Kamas P81]

But just a squad.  A full platoon is dangerous.

[SteelRaven]

But just a squad.  A full platoon is dangerous.

I would imagine this would be most bug mechs in that situation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raF9wfPxir8

[ANS Kamas P81]

I'm reminded of the old Civil War joke.  "It's a trap, sir, there's two of them!"

[RifleMech]

Being that Bergan seemed to be interested in saving a buck wherever they could (see: SHS), expensive toys like that might HELP, but they're not useful to Bergan's bottom line, and THAT was what the Champion was really supposed to be a support unit for. Any success it had on the SLDF's battlefields was always a secondary bonus. (Ditto, of course, for that pricey XL engine!)

TRO:3039 suggests that Bergan they didn't have a DHS variant because that would admit their design had a flaw. In a way though it makes sense. If the Champion is close enough that to fire everything either it's moved in for a quick kill or something went wrong. Otherwise, 10 HS is good enough.

If you're in a bug mech, is there anything that you want to run into?

My first thought was Civilians but then I thought about the slip hazard so probably not.

[Kit deSummersville]

The Champion LAM was the one design that Herb requested be added to all the garbage designs that I had assembled for Boondoggles.

[Intermittent_Coherence]

(the Magi being the most egregious example).

More egregious than the Charger?

The walking fuselage is not a look unique to the Champion (Stalker, Timber Wolf) but the wing like arms are definitely a choice that gets the brain thinking 'plane with legs'

What is pretty rare is the walking fuselage with legs that bend forward. Only the Mercury, Mercury II, Coyotl, Champion and Hoplite that  I can recall off hand. Sentinel and Stalker used to be the same but more recent art has retconned them.

The Champion LAM was the one design that Herb requested be added to all the garbage designs that I had assembled for Boondoggles.

Probably because its profile just screams wanting to fly.

Also... What's up with those arms?
I get they're supposed to be vestigial, but what even are those supposed to be?

[HABeas2]

Also... What's up with those arms?
I get they're supposed to be vestigial, but what even are those supposed to be?

They're WHY I put the thing in the garbage designs. It looked like a failed LAM, so I MADE it a failed LAM.

- Herb

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

They're WHY I put the thing in the garbage designs. It looked like a failed LAM, so I MADE it a failed LAM.

- Herb

Checks out.

[Wrangler]

Also... What's up with those arms?
I get they're supposed to be vestigial, but what even are those supposed to be?

Makes you wonder if Black Python (Viper) is related to the Champion.

• plane like mech body - Check
• rudder on top - Check

[Maingunnery]

Makes you wonder if Black Python (Viper) is related to the Champion.

• plane like mech body - Check
• rudder on top - Check

Well it is a BattleMech, so the original name could have been Champion IIC, at least before the scientists were told to change the name.

[RifleMech]

The Champion LAM was the one design that Herb requested be added to all the garbage designs that I had assembled for Boondoggles.

It's a good choice for a LAM.

They're WHY I put the thing in the garbage designs. It looked like a failed LAM, so I MADE it a failed LAM.

- Herb

Failed or not I still love it. Plus if gives a glimpse of what might have been if LAM's weight weren't capped.

Makes you wonder if Black Python (Viper) is related to the Champion.

• plane like mech body - Check
• rudder on top - Check

Good question! It does look like the Champion's big brother.
And it could be a failed Clan LAM! 

[Intermittent_Coherence]

They're WHY I put the thing in the garbage designs. It looked like a failed LAM, so I MADE it a failed LAM.

- Herb

But why even are they shaped like that? Was the original artist high or something?

Makes you wonder if Black Python (Viper) is related to the Champion.

• plane like mech body - Check
• rudder on top - Check

Good question! It does look like the Champion's big brother.
And it could be a failed Clan LAM! 

Except for the part where the Black Python:
 - Has actual jumpjets
 - Has actual functional arms
 - Has armor actually worth a damn
 - Is actually dangerous at any range
But hey, at least it's an improvement on all counts..

[RifleMech]

Except for the part where the Black Python:
 - Has actual jumpjets
 - Has actual functional arms
 - Has armor actually worth a damn
 - Is actually dangerous at any range
But hey, at least it's an improvement on all counts..

Being 15 tons heavier and built with Clan Tech does give a lot of room for improvements.

As a LAM, the Black Python would have to replace it's XL Engine, ES Structure, and FF Armor with standard versions. Then add in an 8 ton Conversion System. It's speed, armor protection, and fire power is going will drop.

[HABeas2]

But why even are they shaped like that? Was the original artist high or something?Except for the part where the

Dunno. Never met them.

- Herb

[gyedid]

Also... What's up with those arms?
I get they're supposed to be vestigial, but what even are those supposed to be?

I chalk it up to the same kind of thinking that produced:



If you want to justify it in-universe, think about the Champion's intro date.  It was 2602, right at the beginning of the "good years" following the end of the Reunification War.  The economy had picked up considerably and irrational exuberance was everywhere, and penetrated into 'Mech design at some companies.  Bergan knew their proposal had, um, certain shortcomings, so they thought they would make the SLDF procurement officers' heads turn by offering a really cool-looking design.

cheers,

Gabe

[glitterboy2098]

it's also possible that they actually are vestigal features. that originally they intended features for the mech which got dropped, but late enough in development the gross physical design didn't get changed. for example, perhaps they had originally intended to include jump jets, so designed it with aerodynamic features for better control mid jump, only to drop that feature later while keeping the arm design.

[Weirdo]

My personal headcanon is that the heat sink grid routes through all that surface area and functions a bit like an early partial wing, allowing a Champion to dissipate 10.1 heat per turn.

I bet they also marketed the lack of articulated hands as a cost-cutting feature, calling it a pure gunboat with no extra frills.

[gyedid]

My personal headcanon is that the heat sink grid routes through all that surface area and functions a bit like an early partial wing, allowing a Champion to dissipate 10.1 heat per turn.

I bet they also marketed the lack of articulated hands as a cost-cutting feature, calling it a pure gunboat with no extra frills.

Sure, but we don't have fractional accounting for heat in the rules...

I speculated in the design forums that if the Champion were given jump jets, it should benefit from the Nimble Jumper quirk.

cheers,

Gabe

[Gorgon]

Just call it a revolutionary control surface that allows greater stability and tighter turns at high speeds. It just never had the dramatic effect on the Champion's performance that was advertised. (Because we lack a quirk that would represent such a thing)

[marauder648]

I can't recall but isn't the Champion getting new art/a new model in the 2nd kickstarter or was it one that was missed?

[SteelRaven]

I can't recall but isn't the Champion getting new art/a new model in the 2nd kickstarter or was it one that was missed?

Apparent it got passed over on every KS, every new piece of art I have seen has been a fan work. I mean, it's not a super popular mech so I can see why but it is kind of a shame as it's far from terrible. May see a new one in a force pack in the future, we will be getting a new Kintaro in the future SLDF pack after all and a Berserker in the future Steiner pack.

[marauder648]

Apparent it got passed over on every KS, every new piece of art I have seen has been a fan work. I mean, it's not a super popular mech so I can see why but it is kind of a shame as it's far from terrible. May see a new one in a force pack in the future, we will be getting a new Kintaro in the future SLDF pack after all and a Berserker in the future Steiner pack.

Aye, looking forwards to them :) I hope we get a new look Wyvern in the future too, that thing desperately needs an update, and yeah the Champion's not exactly a great go to design, its fast but..eh, and honestly its design/art from the past and even the more modern takes on it have never done it any favours. Its an egg with some empty shelving units strapped on the sides.

[SteelRaven]

I was surprised how well the champion works with other 5/8 movers but the great BT Player blind spot is you hear that the Champion is a Heavy and you expect it to work with heavier mechs. Though, upgrading it isn't hard, as proven in the previous post.

As far as looks, I've seen some fan art that makes the Champion look closer to a beefy Cougar or more industrial Black Python. New art really redeemed the Ostroc and Ostsol which had decent stats but terrible art, it would be interesting to see what we get with Champion from the same artist.

[glitterboy2098]

Apparent it got passed over on every KS, every new piece of art I have seen has been a fan work. I mean, it's not a super popular mech so I can see why but it is kind of a shame as it's far from terrible. May see a new one in a force pack in the future, we will be getting a new Kintaro in the future SLDF pack after all and a Berserker in the future Steiner pack.

the mechwarrior online version is the closest we've gotten to a real art redesign.and it still looks pretty much the same, just with more greeblies.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:MWO_Champion.png

one interesting feature is that in the concept art, they gave the ends of those 'arms' winches. so while it doesn't have hands, they probably could double as a form of crane. which might be useful in the field for supporting other units. in fact they seem to have a hookup loop part way down the arm, so you could probably sling small cargo box under them.

[Weirdo]

Vestigial lift hoists? Honestly, I really like that.

I think there actually is a quirk for that, though I'm not sure the requirements for it.

[Intermittent_Coherence]

I was surprised how well the champion works with other 5/8 movers but the great BT Player blind spot is you hear that the Champion is a Heavy and you expect it to work with heavier mechs.

Eh.. It's a 60 tonner. Most 60 tonners are 5/8 movers. That is on the triangle of armor, firepower and speed, they're already banking on speed and can't really devote much more to armor and firepower.

the mechwarrior online version is the closest we've gotten to a real art redesign.and it still looks pretty much the same, just with more greeblies.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:MWO_Champion.png

one interesting feature is that in the concept art, they gave the ends of those 'arms' winches. so while it doesn't have hands, they probably could double as a form of crane. which might be useful in the field for supporting other units. in fact they seem to have a hookup loop part way down the arm, so you could probably sling small cargo box under them.

It at least looks like it has semi-feasible arms. Still not quite functional, but they at least vaguely resemble arms.

[Maingunnery]

Vestigial lift hoists? Honestly, I really like that.

I think there actually is a quirk for that, though I'm not sure the requirements for it.

No requirements, but you are limited to scenario specific payloads (read cargo).
So I imagine having a 3 ton cargo pod hanging under each arm.

[gyedid]

Vestigial lift hoists? Honestly, I really like that.

I think there actually is a quirk for that, though I'm not sure the requirements for it.

Well, there's the Cerberus with the Vestigial Hands quirk.  Hands can be used for picking up objects like cargo but don't count as having hand actuators for melee combat.

cheers,

Gabe

[RifleMech]

I chalk it up to the same kind of thinking that produced:

The Royal variant comes with racing stripes. 

it's also possible that they actually are vestigal features. that originally they intended features for the mech which got dropped, but late enough in development the gross physical design didn't get changed. for example, perhaps they had originally intended to include jump jets, so designed it with aerodynamic features for better control mid jump, only to drop that feature later while keeping the arm design.

That makes sense.  And jump jets would help with it's recon role  and they could have been dropped in favor of the LBX which was introduced a few years earlier. Flight controls, for nimble jumping, and any weapons in the arms could have been dropped at the same time. The art could suggest this is what happened. The TRO:2750 art looks like there's a weapon in the arm. Other art looks like the weapon port was covered up.

[Intermittent_Coherence]

Mmmhmmm... I can't help but think the arms looked more complete with the Comguard refits and weapons added.