Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The Spartan C and Shogun C both appear in the Wolf's Dragoons in Redemption Rites.  Should they be added to Wolf's Dragoon's availability in the Dark Age?  Or is that not enough usage?

[Rainbow 6]

The Spartan C and Shogun C both appear in the Wolf's Dragoons in Redemption Rites.  Should they be added to Wolf's Dragoon's availability in the Dark Age?  Or is that not enough usage?

Dire Wolf as well.

[GreekFire]

While we will take these into consideration, it's important to note that Redemption Rites takes place after Terra---and after the Dragoons had their regiments savaged and had the chance to claim a remarkable amount of salvage. As such, there's no guarantee that any updates will affect the Dragoon Dark Age (or earlier) lists.

With that said, there's no need to post any further units from Redemption Rites.

[Sartris]

In any ilClan-era entries are made on a very intentional case-by-case basis. Some factions like the reincarnated Jaguars haven't even been added back in yet as we wait to see what shape they will take.

[Weirdo]

I know RATs aren't the be-all end-all of anything, but given the Grommet's presence in the general IndustrialMech table in TRO Irregulars, is there any chance of seeing increased availability for that mech?

Second question: I'm noticing that some of the units from TRO Irregulars have PVs and Alpha Strike cards, but many do not. Am I correct in guessing that this means the MULMasters are in the process of updating those units and I just checked in the middle of things?

[GreekFire]

I know RATs aren't the be-all end-all of anything, but given the Grommet's presence in the general IndustrialMech table in TRO Irregulars, is there any chance of seeing increased availability for that mech?

Second question: I'm noticing that some of the units from TRO Irregulars have PVs and Alpha Strike cards, but many do not. Am I correct in guessing that this means the MULMasters are in the process of updating those units and I just checked in the middle of things?

To answer question 1: We're currently in the middle of a large-scale RAT review, and are mid-process. This isn't to guarantee that the Grommet will have its availabilities changed---just that it is, along with all other potential RAT omissions, on our radar.

To answer question 2: Some were recently updated, and I'm planning on updating a few more today. It might take some time for the more esoteric units, though.

[Weirdo]

That's fine, just knowing that they'll get done eventually is good enough for me. I'm fully aware that despite my being the Most Interesting Player in the Fandom, I am still but one player, and it makes business sense to prioritize things that are focused on by the unwashed masses. ;)

[Kharn01]

I think you know the Elemental problem in both Alpha Strike and Total Warfare Builder.

You can search for Elemental Battle Armor and add the unit to the force but it's ever the 4 trooper squad (5 or 6 trooper squads doesn't exsist in the force builders).

The Foot Platoons have various types (Foot Platoon (FedCom) (Flamer), Foot Platoon (FW3035+) (Flamer))

Will it be possible to generat one card per Battle Armor size (Elemental Battle Armor [Laser] would change to  -> Elemental Battle Armor [Laser] (4) -> Elemental Battle Armor [Laser] (5) -> Elemental Battle Armor [Laser] (6))

[Sartris]

This has indeed been considered. But it would require having to manually create 800ish new entries (which includes faction data). It would also clutter the infantry search results fairly severely, especially with units like the Elemental.

That’s not to say we won’t *ever* do it, but we have chosen not to for now for the reasons above.

[pokefan548]

This has indeed been considered. But it would require having to manually create 800ish new entries (which includes faction data). It would also clutter the infantry search results fairly severely, especially with units like the Elemental.

That’s not to say we won’t *ever* do it, but we have chosen not to for now for the reasons above.

Seems like it would require a fairly fundamental change in how infantry units are handled by the MUL, which IMO is needed anyways. Still, that's its own bag of snakes.

On another note, HTP: Tortuga erroneously links to CGL Store and DTRPG pages for TTS: Tortuga Prime.

[Kharn01]

This has indeed been considered. But it would require having to manually create 800ish new entries (which includes faction data). It would also clutter the infantry search results fairly severely, especially with units like the Elemental.

That’s not to say we won’t *ever* do it, but we have chosen not to for now for the reasons above.

Can I help by the task? Because in the actual state are the Elementals useless for the Force Builder(s).

[NeonKnight]

Dire Wolf Prime is listed on the MUL as being 56 PV

ALPHA STRIKE card in the Command Star Force Pack lists the PV as 55 points.

[Sartris]

The MUL is correct. The card is in error

[Cache]

Nighthawk PA(L) Mk. XXI

Combat Equipment (p. 44, last sentence before the rules section), and TRO: 3075 (p. 12, fourth paragraph) state that ComStar shared production of the XXI with the (second) SLDF. This would cover from 3065-3067. XXII and XXX variants aren't mentioned specifically.

[Bishop Steiner]

The HEP-2H Heliopolis

Production Date: 2488 according to TRO 3075, pg 182/183

It's listed with Double Heat Sinks, which are not in prototype format until 2559/ normal production 2567 (79 yrs after the HEP-2H) according to Starterbook: Sword and Dragon, p. 57, "Double Heat Sinks"/ Interstellar Operations, pg 71 "Double Heat sinks".

Introduced: 2559 (Terran Hegemony)
Standard Production: 2567 (Terran Hegemony)
Constructed with advanced materials and further supplied
with specially engineered cooling fluids, the double heat sink
revolutionized the design of both BattleMechs and aerospace
fighters in the 26th century and beyond.

So.... does the Intro Date for the Heliopolis need to be changed, or it's technology?

(Been a while since I posted, so might be in the wrong section, again. Maybe errata?)

[Sartris]

turns out we knocked this one out a while ago (for the life of me i couldn't find the email chain). the intro date has already been changed on the MUL. The HEP-2X was created to account for the text in TRO 3075

[Bishop Steiner]

Interesting. Apparently someone going by the handle Greekfire on discord updated the MUL date last night (or so I was told) and none if the auxiliary sites seem aware of the addition of the 2X. I will look to update them when I get home.  Thanks!

[Sartris]

the changes themselves were applied last night, yes. the decision to make them occurred a while back and making the changes escaped the to-do queue.

[MyndkryM]

I noticed the search results for the Mobile Long Tom Artillery LT-MOB-25 and associated Ammo and Support carriages are each listed as 95 tons. The records sheets from the Download page have tonnage listed as 75, 10 and 10 (and AS card sizes are 2, 1 and 1).

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=long+tom&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=

[jasonf]

turns out we knocked this one out a while ago (for the life of me i couldn't find the email chain). the intro date has already been changed on the MUL. The HEP-2X was created to account for the text in TRO 3075

You might want to blank out the BV and C-Bill cost values for the new HEP-2X (and maybe remove the AS card, too). The single heat sinks will change these values slightly, and it'd be consistent with how the other variants that lack a record sheet are presented on the MUL.
 

[GreekFire]

You might want to blank out the BV and C-Bill cost values for the new HEP-2X (and maybe remove the AS card, too). The single heat sinks will change these values slightly, and it'd be consistent with how the other variants that lack a record sheet are presented on the MUL.
 

Ah, that's my bad. The AS card is accurate, though---I took into account the changes there when tweaking its values.

[MyndkryM]

Cheers to the MUL team for the latest Battle Armor update.  :thumbsup:

Y'alls work is greatly appreciated.

[Sartris]

nckestrel tapped into a font of dark sorcery (ok, it was SQL but shooting lightning through silicone is technically magic so)

for the uninitiated, we did the thing and created individual BA entries for each standard squad size of 4, 5, and 6. Faction availablity goes by squad size - clans will always have access to the 5 man squads, but almost never four or six. Likewise, Comstar and the Word of Blake only use the six man entry.

What this means is that a lot of entries will have no availability at all - for example, a Tengu will be blank for the 4 and 5 man squads because they were a Blakist exclusive. We initially debated removing the unused records, but decided to keep things player-friendly and have all the options available. Perhaps your merc unit wants to run a squad of four Undines or you need to save 3pv to squeak into your AS points cap by selecting a smaller squad size. All things are possible.

I'm in the process of manually double-checking the entries to make sure that everything moved over correctly but feel free to report any oddities in this space as usual.

[Daryk]

You both are true heroes!  :thumbsup:

[jasonf]

Great job on the BA updates, guys! I can already hear the pitter-patter of little armored feet bouncing around tabletop terrain everywhere...  :thumbsup:

[jasonf]

Ok, the Elemental 5-packs inspired me to write down all the errata I think I've found in my Dark Age research deep dive. I tried to organize by the likelihood it's legit errata...

Definitely Errata
Firebee 1E: Delete Canopus, Fronc availability in E-Republic (duplicative with Periphery-Gen)
Firestarter M3: Fronc availability in DA era redundant with Periphery-Gen availability
Firestarter M4: Should not have E-Republic availability (Intro date = 3109)
Assassin 23: Either A) Fronc availability is duplicative in E/L-Republic eras with Periphery-Gen, or B) Periphery-Gen is in error (since it’s eventually extinct).
Clint 2-3U: Either A) Fronc availability is duplicative in E-Republic era with Periphery-Gen, or B) Periphery-Gen is in error and should be replaced with Canopus and Taurians.
Goshawk 6: has an Intro date (2840) earlier than the original Goshawk (2863)
Shadow Hawk 4H: needs availability in E-Republic era (Intro date = 3097).
Shadow Hawk 7H: should not have any availability in E-Republic era (Intro date = 3101). Not sure if more limited availabilities should be moved to L-Republic era or not
Rifleman 3Cr: mention and record sheet is only in TRO3085(-PP). No mention of it or RS in RG08

Multiple Units (FWL Dark Age issue):
There are a few units with Intro dates < 3139 and Dark Age availability to FWL, but no Dark Age availability individual FWL-states (but should have these since they were around before reunification). Some examples are the Hermit Crab (all variants), Scourge WF1, and Locust 3M.
If the MUL team has better filtering skills than I do, the way to find these would be the units with:   0 <= Introduction <= 3138 AND Dark Age availability = FWL AND (DA availability NOT = {Tamarind OR Oriente OR, etc.})
There also seems to be some with the reverse (individual FWL state availability but no FWL availability in DA). The Goliath 3M2 is an example. This might not be errata, though, since these may reflect extinction before 3139.

Pretty Sure It’s Errata
Locust IIC 3: Should have Capellan and FWL availability during Civil War and Jihad eras (RG16: “After its proliferation following Operation Bulldog, this was one of the most common Clan ’Mechs within the Free Worlds League and Capellan Confederation well into the Jihad.”)
Griffin 3N: Pretty sure E-Republic availability should be Regulus, not Marik-Stewart (produced on Tiber in Reg-Fiefs, according to RG01)
Griffin 5L: Should have Canopus availability (in all eras) according to TRO3085 (“These GRF-5L variants were shared with the Magistracy of Canopus, but not with the Taurian Concordat.”)
Merlin 1A and 1B: I think these should have Raven Alliance availability for E/L-Republic and DA eras. They do not have access to Periphery-Gen list (as the Outworlds All. did)
Warhammer 5L: Should have Canopus availability (in all eras) according to TRO3085 (“A joint venture between the Magistracy and the Capellan Confederation, the WHM-5L trades in its PPCs for plasma rifles.”)

May or May Not Be Errata
Sphinx 3 and 4: Should Sea Foxes have availability in DA era? TR3145 (NTNU): “…Clan Sea Fox still sells both.”
Rifleman IIC 2: Is Merc, Kell Hounds, Solaris availability during Jihad era errata? It’s the only IS availability in any era and I couldn’t find a source to suggest it.
Hector 1B: Is this really reintro in 3075? I could not for the life of me find a reference to its revival ED: Age of War, any of the Jihad sourcebooks (including Obj: FWL), or any Dark Age sourcebooks
Longbow 7V: Are HW Clan/Stone Lion/Society availabilities during Jihad errata? It’s not an SLDF or Vicore variant (so no secret Wobbie shipments), so I didn’t see anything to suggest they’d have it.
Night Wolf (std): should Hell’s Horses have DA era availability added? (produced at Weingarten, TR3085).

Potential missing availabilities of capturing factions
Pandora (Red Devil): Should Lyrans have Rifleman C 2 available in DA? Tamar Rising (p. 29) suggests Riflemans were still being churned out in 3151, and possibly as far back as Lyran occupation (RG08 suggests the C 3 is a Sea Fox export variant).
Tikonov (Earthwerks): Should Davion have Dark Age availability of Koschei 5I and 5X, Quickdraw 8P and/or Cataphract 5L? They have it for Thunderbolt 12R and held the world for years.
Marduk (Victory): Should Davion have Dark Age availability of Firestarter-O omni and Wolverine 9K? They have it for all other ‘Mechs produced on Marduk during Dark Age (Griffin 5K, Orochi 2I, Black Hawk and Avatar omnis).
Terra Firma (Bander BM): Should Capellans have Bandersnatch (1Ar and/or 1B) availability in DA era? They have availabilities for Scorpion 1TB and 1BR produced there (and Crusader 9BR with rest of IS)

[GreekFire]

Thank you! I've made adjustments aplenty.

A few notes:
-The early intro date for the Vapor Eagle 6 is intentional. Blame the text as written.
-The Griffin 3N's debut in the MSC is intentional. Production was relocated to Regulan space following Wolf conquest of Keystone.
-DA missing factions: everything here is as intended.

[GreekFire]

We're happy to announce that the ilClan era is now in its beta phase.

http://masterunitlist.info/Era/Details/257/ilclan


Though much work has already gone into the era, it is currently unfinished and is still a work in progress. Units will be added and removed at a high frequency, and faction availabilities for said units will be just as volatile.

With that said, feedback pointing out potential mistakes is more than welcome. Examples of welcome comments include those that:

• Spot factional mismatches across configurations of the same omni unit.
• Highlight units that have no ilClan availabilities — though note that any unit that last had availabilities in the Jihad era need not be brought up.
• Note availability gaps that are supported by text in Tamar Rising, Empire Alone, etc. Please only bring up novel examples if more than one instance of the unit is shown to be in use.

Please, however, do not comment on:

• Any RAT/MUL mismatches. This will be tackled as part of a later initiative.
• Units you feel should/shouldn't be in a faction, but do not have canon support for.

We do not currently have an ETA as to when the ilClan era will reach a more finalized state, but we will make another announcement once we feel secure that the era has taken a more solid form.

Thank you!

[Sartris]

(yes, several factions are still hidden)

[GreekFire]

(yes, several factions are still hidden)

Not anymore :)