BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Universe => Clan Chatterweb => Topic started by: Foxx Ital on 13 October 2014, 16:50:24
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lil under the weather, went with this instead of the Fox is out of the Box. if the name isn't good enough just trial me to change it O:-) welcome to your new home for the next 50 pages,ghostbears ^_^
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I would point out that I am first, but that sounds far too motivated for this Bear so I will just curl up in the corner and take a nap. Hopefully no one pokes me this time.
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Oh, we're going to be here instead of the other thread? Embrace the future and all that I suppose.
Mmmmm...smell that new Dominion smell.
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still not feelin so hot Foxx? that sucks :(
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still not feelin so hot Foxx? that sucks :(
there's a joke in there about firefox, but i'm too tired to find it
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there's a joke in there about firefox, but i'm too tired to find it
We really need a sleeping smiley for our Clan....
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(http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003632671/5910607884_polar20bear20smile_answer_1_xlarge.jpeg)
Perhaps?
Ghost Bears. cute, floofy..friendly...until they get angry.
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https://www.google.com.au/search?q=bundy+bear&biw=1235&bih=661&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Fe4-VN3UDdCDuwTYu4GgDQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ
Went for a link because some aren't kiddy safe.
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Still waiting for the ravens to issue a trial of grievance for making the thread title a play on theirs.
Revival: trials was pretty awesome, was great seeing some old school boo the hellhorses fued. Karl Bourjon actually went UP in my eyes for some of the trash talk he laid down. Also another Timberwolf with Ghostbear colors ;D
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Still waiting for the ravens to issue a trial of grievance for making the thread title a play on theirs.
I view it as an homage. ;)
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I view it as an homage. ;)
Good, my plan worked then ;D O:-)
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...Also another Timberwolf with Ghostbear colors ;D
I love how that always seems to happen. ;D
Also, this is making me wonder what the numbers on that actually are because it feels like every time a Timber Wolf is shown somewhere it is wearing Ghost Bear markings.
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I love how that always seems to happen. ;D
Also, this is making me wonder what the numbers on that actually are because it feels like every time a Timber Wolf is shown somewhere it is wearing Ghost Bear markings.
No doubt; all the way back to ye olde BT Compendium. For a long time we had Falcon and Wolf material and so little Bear stuff. The prevalence of Bear art with little in-universe support was puzzling. But it made me buy Invading Clans and then FM: Warden Clans and FM: Crusader Clans, so the strategy was sound.
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No doubt; all the way back to ye olde BT Compendium. For a long time we had Falcon and Wolf material and so little Bear stuff. The prevalence of Bear art with little in-universe support was puzzling. But it made me buy Invading Clans and then FM: Warden Clans and FM: Crusader Clans, so the strategy was sound.
My theory is Timberwolfs look better with Ghostbear colors/symbols O:-)
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Its the only Timber Wolf in CGB.
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Still waiting for the ravens to issue a trial of grievance for making the thread title a play on theirs.
Revival: trials was pretty awesome, was great seeing some old school boo the hellhorses fued. Karl Bourjon actually went UP in my eyes for some of the trash talk he laid down. Also another Timberwolf with Ghostbear colors ;D
oh! Is revival: trials out? Must..get..
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Its the only Timber Wolf in CGB.
lol, and yet, with the way the Clans are known to salvage everything forever until truly not useable, I could see that
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Its the only Timber Wolf in CGB.
The Bears actually have two T-wolves:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/e/e5/TRO3050U.gif/280px-TRO3050U.gif
Although I suspect there's a third that they use for spares to keep these two in working condition.
But surely no more than two or three.
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Still waiting for the ravens to issue a trial of grievance for making the thread title a play on theirs.
Don't worry, we'll extract payment somehow... err, rather... We're such good allies, it's an honour to see such imitation ;)
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Don't worry, we'll extract payment somehow... err, rather... We're such good allies, it's an honour to see such imitation ;)
(He accepts payment in Cash, Favors, and Assault Mechs.)
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(He accepts payment in Cash, Favors, and Assault Mechs.)
It's the Raven way. Coincidentally, it's also the Shark/Fox way ;)
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That's why we're the "Trend setters" of the CBT universe. ;D
Sry,i'm lost becuse I thought this was the Raven thread. ::)
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;D Then my plan is coming together, speaking of the sea fox way...While i have you all here >:D *Starts the bidding for use of the alshain shipyards* O:-)
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That's why we're the "Trend setters" of the CBT universe. ;D
Sry,i'm lost becuse I thought this was the Raven thread. ::)
Your welcome to stick around, the more the merrier. I mean we can just pretend this is Bearclaw and it's 3060 and all that bad stuff in the future hasn't happened yet. We're just sitting back, chilling, and pounding Malavai Fletcher and his Horses into dust.
Speaking of which now: without revealing too many spoilers: how'd Revival Trials work out for us (besides the fact that we all know the Bears got a slot)?
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I love how that always seems to happen. ;D
Also, this is making me wonder what the numbers on that actually are because it feels like every time a Timber Wolf is shown somewhere it is wearing Ghost Bear markings.
Assistant Line Developers favorite clan gets all the screen time??? :) I got nothing on why its a Timberwolf. Pretty sure you got the only color Nova Cat too.
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Assistant Line Developers favorite clan gets all the screen time??? :) I got nothing on why its a Timberwolf. Pretty sure you got the only color Nova Cat too.
And that STILL bothers me! ;D
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Assistant Line Developers favorite clan gets all the screen time??? :) I got nothing on why its a Timberwolf. Pretty sure you got the only color Nova Cat too.
And they call us colourless.
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Your welcome to stick around, the more the merrier. I mean we can just pretend this is Bearclaw and it's 3060 and all that bad stuff in the future hasn't happened yet. We're just sitting back, chilling, and pounding Malavai Fletcher and his Horses into dust.
Speaking of which now: without revealing too many spoilers: how'd Revival Trials work out for us (besides the fact that we all know the Bears got a slot)?
grudge match with the horses, Some great smack talking.
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Not only is there more colour art of Bear Mad Cats then any other clan, but there's more colour art of Falcon Mad Cats then there are of actual Wolf ones. Make of this what you will.
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*eyes squint* I make of it you don't know the real name of the battlemech! Its a timberwolf! ;)
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*eyes squint* I make of it you don't know the real name of the battlemech! Its a timberwolf! ;)
Actually it's two words, Timber Wolf - Pedantic mode
The truth is that I habitually use the Inner Sphere codenames for Clan 'Mechs (with one or two exceptions) in discussion or the like. There's a number of reasons for this, not the least of which is that the writers follow the same pattern and use the Inner Sphere codenames as a primary designation. Plus if you look from an in-world perspective, the teeming untold billions of the Inner Sphere will call it a Mad Cat; it's only a teeeny tiny infentessimal minority who call it a Timber Wolf. Hell, the Sharks named the Mk II and III Mad Cat as the name had a higher degree of recongition.
Now if I was writing In Character as a Clan character, then I'd call a 'Mech by its Clan name. Hell, there's even a moment in a stillborn BC story concept where this is an issue.
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Hell, the Sharks named the Mk II and III Mad Cat as the name had a higher degree of recongition.
The fact that the name markets better to ignorant spheroid barbarians does not exactly endorse its use amongst the honorable and enlightened.
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I was honestly just playing. but since you feel so passionately i was curious >:D Would you be willing to play a megamek game, If i lose I'll call the Mad dog and Timber Wolf by their inner sphere names for the rest of the year, if I win you have to refer to them for the rest of the year by their clan names >:D
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The fact that the name markets better to ignorant spheroid barbarians does not exactly endorse its use amongst the honorable and enlightened.
And yet they buy and use them anyway. Funny that
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And yet they buy and use them anyway. Funny that
seems to me i have seen far more of the clan characters referring to the Mark IV as the "Savage Wolf" than mad cat. got me cornered on the makr II and III I guess, but I always thought that was really dumb.
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seems to me i have seen far more of the clan characters referring to the Mark IV as the "Savage Wolf" than mad cat. got me cornered on the makr II and III I guess, but I always thought that was really dumb.
And I suspect that if the Foxes hadn't given it the Savage Wolf name and just called it a Mad Cat Mk IV full stop, the Clans would have bought it anyway.
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I tend to use the Clan names because I am on these forums a lot. My brother tends to use the Inner Sphere Names because those are the ones he remembers. It makes conversations a little jumpy at times.
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Actually it's two words, Timber Wolf - Pedantic mode
The truth is that I habitually use the Inner Sphere codenames for Clan 'Mechs (with one or two exceptions) in discussion or the like. There's a number of reasons for this, not the least of which is that the writers follow the same pattern and use the Inner Sphere codenames as a primary designation. Plus if you look from an in-world perspective, the teeming untold billions of the Inner Sphere will call it a Mad Cat; it's only a teeeny tiny infentessimal minority who call it a Timber Wolf. Hell, the Sharks named the Mk II and III Mad Cat as the name had a higher degree of recongition.
Now if I was writing In Character as a Clan character, then I'd call a 'Mech by its Clan name. Hell, there's even a moment in a stillborn BC story concept where this is an issue.
This may be true elsewhere, but this right here is Clan space so you will call it by its proper name. ;)
And I suspect that if the Foxes hadn't given it the Savage Wolf name and just called it a Mad Cat Mk IV full stop, the Clans would have bought it anyway.
Given how much IS junk most of the IS Clans are using at this point, I think they could have called it "Clan Wolverine will rise again" and still sold it to most of the other Clans for the simple reason that it is Clan tech. ;D
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The clans will rise again!!
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This may be true elsewhere, but this right here is Clan space so you will call it by its proper name. ;)
No, right here is a message board in an OOC discussion thread. There's no board rule saying that I have to refer to any 'Mech by its Clan name.
Now if that were to change and the mods made it a hard rule (and in doing such took leave of all sense), then yes, I would use the Clan names. But since they haven't and I don't need to, then I won't.
Don't get me wrong. If you want to call Clan 'Mechs by their real names, then that's cool with me. But don't expect everyone to do the same.
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Considering how many people insist on calling a certain mech the Ebon Jaguar because it's the 'proper name', even though the fluff says that almost everyone but the Jag's called it the Cauldron Born...
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The Cauldron Born is one of the few Clan mechs I call be the Inner Sphere name. One because it sounds much better than the Ebon Jaguar and two because then I don't have to be reminded about Clan Smoked Jaguar every time I see the mech :)
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Afternoon fellow bears! I have been tinkering with a map making program I have by adding in the info concerning the planet Bearclaw, our former capital.
This is what I got so far...
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No, right here is a message board in an OOC discussion thread. There's no board rule saying that I have to refer to any 'Mech by its Clan name.
Now if that were to change and the mods made it a hard rule (and in doing such took leave of all sense), then yes, I would use the Clan names. But since they haven't and I don't need to, then I won't.
Don't get me wrong. If you want to call Clan 'Mechs by their real names, then that's cool with me. But don't expect everyone to do the same.
And as long as you hang out in the Clan threads, you should really expect to be harassed for it on a semi-regular basis. ;D
Afternoon fellow bears! I have been tinkering with a map making program I have by adding in the info concerning the planet Bearclaw, our former capital.
This is what I got so far...
Very nice, although the cloud cover makes it kind of hard to see some parts of the map.
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And as long as you hang out in the Clan threads, you should really expect to be harassed for it on a semi-regular basis. ;D
Why? Again, I'm not breaking any forums rules. I can call the 'Mechs what I like in these threads, and certainly I don't need to call them by their Clan names if I don't want to.
So no, harassing people about it, even if it's supposedly funny or joking, is not cool either.
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Why?
Because this is where the most fanatic Clan players spend most of their time and this board is dedicated to the Clans which makes more vocal Clan enthusiasm expected. That includes Clan speech quirks like not using contractions (bad Tyler Jorgensson ;)), Clan terminology, and Clan names in addition to making Clan-centric jokes and other partially in-character behavior. No it is not a fully in-character board and there are no rules to that effect in place, but part of enthusiasm is presenting yourself more like a citizen of the Clans than you normally would elsewhere (although there are a few nutcases around here that will use Clan speech patterns in totally inappropriate places like at work ;D).
Again, I'm not breaking any forums rules. I can call the 'Mechs what I like in these threads, and certainly I don't need to call them by their Clan names if I don't want to.
So no, harassing people about it, even if it's supposedly funny or joking, is not cool either.
Dude, chill. There is absolutely no reason to get worked up over this.
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Dude, chill. There is absolutely no reason to get worked up over this.
Then stop jumping down my throat about using the Clan names, and stop "joking" about harassing people who don't. It's not funny.
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Woot shout out!
Yeah I guess their is a reason I Made a terrible Khan way back in the day... But seriously guys sit down grab a beer or too and talk about how we are the best Clan ever....
Nice map: agree about the clouds.
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That map is awesome!
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Had a lot of fun with the Executioner tonight! seems like this beast can do no wrong and barely takes a scratch. Every time i whomp something with one i feel a pang of regret for ignoring it for a decade, the NTNU variants are sick.
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I tried using the NTNU Gladiator once. I managed to blow both the MASC and the Supercharger very early.
Awesome.
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I tried using the NTNU Gladiator once. I managed to blow both the MASC and the Supercharger very early.
Awesome.
I must have better luck with the Executioner then. I use it on the reg to beat up on Dire wolfs.
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Maybe it'd treat you better if you referred to it as an Executioner ;)
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guys, come on. This is supposed to be a happy thread. Let us not bicker and argue over who
killed who named what.
So what is your Dire Wolf killing secret? Always run behind them?
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TRO3050U p142
Due more to the exceptional bond these warriors developed than any stellar weapons loadout,
Possibly the truest thing I have read in any TRO. It is a 'Mech you either learn to love and never drive a 3/5 assault again, or its an incomprehensible aberration.
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guys, come on. This is supposed to be a happy thread. Let us not bicker and argue over who killed who named what.
So what is your Dire Wolf killing secret? Always run behind them?
With the I my strategy is to basically keep the range while generating a high to hit number with the Masc and super charger, whittling them down. If i see i can move behind them i go for it! with the twin Streak 6/HLL variant, i try my best to get behind them and ruin their day. Against another assault this is easier done than said it turns out.
And luck, loooots of luck >:D
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TRO3050U p142
Possibly the truest thing I have read in any TRO. It is a 'Mech you either learn to love and never drive a 3/5 assault again, or its an incomprehensible aberration.
This was me for a decade, now i have a hard time piloting any other assault mech!
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Has any Trothkin here tried out the Super-Grizzly aka the http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bruin yet? Seeing as its one of the newest machines to walk out of Alshain i'm wondering about peoples thoughts on it.
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Has any Trothkin here tried out the Super-Grizzly aka the http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bruin yet? Seeing as its one of the newest machines to walk out of Alshain i'm wondering about peoples thoughts on it.
Nope I haven't. I was always confused by the Sarna article anyways. The first is clearly stated yet under the variants I'm not sure about the load out (and I don't have the TRO's to check either!). Does it have 5 LRG Pulse lasers, 1 Ultra AC-5, Two MG's. 1 SRM 2, 2 Streak SRM 4's, and an LRM 10?
And I've asked this question before and every time I forget the answer!!!
However in that regard: I like the mech, both variants, as an upgrade to the Grizzly. It's bigger, just as mobile, and fits sorta the same role in second-line forces, all built in the new home of the Inner Sphere.
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Has any Trothkin here tried out the Super-Grizzly aka the http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bruin yet? Seeing as its one of the newest machines to walk out of Alshain i'm wondering about peoples thoughts on it.
The bruin runs pretty much like a big grizzly, which for me means its fun. Plus i think its one of the most striking assaults out there!
The variant has 2 LPL,2 Ultra AC5s,6 machineguns (put those on burst baby!) and a srm2.
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So what is your Dire Wolf killing secret? Always run behind them?
I land a nice double tap to the CT with my UAC20...hi Foxx ;)
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I land a nice double tap to the CT with my UAC20...hi Foxx ;)
Bah [blank] I wish it was that, no instead it's plink in my Kodiaks CT and 3 engine crits #P But you would be proud of how much lost time i'v made up for how much trash talk i used to spray about the Executioner,Z. O0
....you know its been almost 2 clan generations since that match ;D
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Aggh, we are old solomha now...
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Aggh, we are old solomha now...
You're only as solomha as you let yourself be.
Or if some young new Elemental comes and kicks the snot out of you...
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A quick thought whilst looking through a TRO occured to me, do the Bears have a protomech programme? One would think with their love of elementals and heavy infantry that the Bears would give Proto's a serious look in, but then again I assume that because of the degredation of proto pilots this would be seen in a bad light, especially with the 'family' nature of the bears.
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Nope just lots and lots of Elementals. After Zeta was lost they didn't reconstitute the all Elemental Galaxy (to all of our sadness) but they never really got involved in the Proto program. I think the Ravens and the Horses have them in the IS and that's it.
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Like the Aerospace phenotype before it, the ProtoMech phenotype was determined to be too physically weak to suit the Bears' doctrine of a warrior being as dangerous out of the cockpit as they were in one.
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Thank you for clearing that up Trothkin.
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Like the Aerospace phenotype before it, the ProtoMech phenotype was determined to be too physically weak to suit the Bears' doctrine of a warrior being as dangerous out of the cockpit as they were in one.
More correctly the ProtoMech phenotype is a development of the Aerospace phenotype, which the Bears did not develop in the same direction as the Clans in general. (The Bears have aerospace bloodlines, they just don't look like those of the other Clans.)
So, back in 3060 when ProtoMechs burst onto the scene the Bears took a look, found they didn't have the infrastructure to operate Protos (no pilots) and unlike the Jaguars had resources to burn on 'Mechs. The lack of Zelbriggen free units for abusing the Inner Sphere worked itself out when the Kungsarme rejuvenated the tank corps. (Bear tankers are 4/5 post 3075ish.)
elementals and heavy infantry
Protos are closer to small 'Mechs than heavy infantry. For example an Elemental can still move around a building (very strong floors in BattleTech) while a Proto can't. An Elemental can take a guy prisoner, a Proto can't.
War is about more than shooting the biggest guns at each other. That is what we have 'Mechs for. Infantry fills in the gaps where the big guns can't go and are inappropriate.
It is well worth noting there are a lot of situations where infantry is still more appropriate than battle armour. Consider for a moment that Elementals don't have hands making them bouncy Daleks. Where does that leave Protos?
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More correctly the ProtoMech phenotype is a development of the Aerospace phenotype, which the Bears did not develop in the same direction as the Clans in general. (The Bears have aerospace bloodlines, they just don't look like those of the other Clans.)
So, back in 3060 when ProtoMechs burst onto the scene the Bears took a look, found they didn't have the infrastructure to operate Protos (no pilots) and unlike the Jaguars had resources to burn on 'Mechs. The lack of Zelbriggen free units for abusing the Inner Sphere worked itself out when the Kungsarme rejuvenated the tank corps. (Bear tankers are 4/5 post 3075ish.)
That and we already had Omega to fill our no-holds-barred combat needs so there was really no need for them. I feel like we might not have even bothered testing protos like the other Clans did as a result, although I could very well be wrong on this.
Protos are closer to small 'Mechs than heavy infantry. For example an Elemental can still move around a building (very strong floors in BattleTech) while a Proto can't. An Elemental can take a guy prisoner, a Proto can't.
War is about more than shooting the biggest guns at each other. That is what we have 'Mechs for. Infantry fills in the gaps where the big guns can't go and are inappropriate.
It is well worth noting there are a lot of situations where infantry is still more appropriate than battle armour. Consider for a moment that Elementals don't have hands making them bouncy Daleks. Where does that leave Protos?
I am definitely with you on this, and your last point is why I consider any BA lacking at least one Armored Glove to have a significant design flaw. The wild hand-things out there do definitely have their uses, but they are worthless for precision tasks like using a keyboard or grabbing delicate objects so the simple glove is an indispensable tool which should not be sacrificed unless it is absolutely necessary.
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I am definitely with you on this, and your last point is why I consider any BA lacking at least one Armored Glove to have a significant design flaw. The wild hand-things out there do definitely have their uses, but they are worthless for precision tasks like using a keyboard or grabbing delicate objects so the simple glove is an indispensable tool which should not be sacrificed unless it is absolutely necessary.
Rule of cool.
If we were honest Zelbriggen has been off the table since 3053 for all Bear Clusters. It is really more of a consideration for the politics of internal promotion (showing off) and table top games. In games players have found Protos to be useful as the Zelbriggen restrictions aren't as strict for Protos while the Protos are tougher than tanks.
I can't find the reference. It would be surprising if no evaluation of Protomechs was performed. Though the data could have been made available through connections with other Clans.
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Rule of cool.
Ah yes, the single greatest law of the BT universe. How could I forget. ;D
If we were honest Zelbriggen has been off the table since 3053 for all Bear Clusters. It is really more of a consideration for the politics of internal promotion (showing off) and table top games. In games players have found Protos to be useful as the Zelbriggen restrictions aren't as strict for Protos while the Protos are tougher than tanks.
Yeah, my point exactly.
I can't find the reference. It would be surprising if no evaluation of Protomechs was performed. Though the data could have been made available through connections with other Clans.
That was what I was thinking as well, but I cannot remember seeing anything about Bear trials, I know we do not have the required phenotype, and we are most definitely good friends with the Ravens so we could have easily traded for their data. The result is that I feel like we might not have ever done our own evaluation even if that does most definitely seem odd, but there is a lot of logic behind not even trying given our situation so it is a possibility.
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ProtoMech Strike 1: Small cockpit that required a pilot that the Ghost Bears.
ProtoMech Strike 2: ProtoMechs required EI system to pilot.
ProtoMech Strike 3: Society scientists downplaying their achievements to the Warrior Castes.
By the time the Ultraheavy ProtoMechs came out the Ghost Bears would have already made up their minds and it would have taken, at the very least, consistent extraordinary battlefield performance by the UH ProtoMechs for the Ghost Bears to even consider changing their minds.
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ProtoMech Strike 1: Small cockpit that required a pilot that the Ghost Bears.
ProtoMech Strike 2: ProtoMechs required EI system to pilot.
ProtoMech Strike 3: Society scientists downplaying their achievements to the Warrior Castes.
By the time the Ultraheavy ProtoMechs came out the Ghost Bears would have already made up their minds and it would have taken, at the very least, consistent extraordinary battlefield performance by the UH ProtoMechs for the Ghost Bears to even consider changing their minds.
Do you know what is the Price different, C-Bills, between a UH Sprite and a Locust IIC?
A Locust IIC costs about 2.5 Million C-Bills, and doesn't require an entirely new training program. However the Bears do like their Assault Type Machines like the Kodiak, I think there could be a place for SH infantry in the Touman, if the cost for a point of Sprites was less than that of a Locust IIC and the training wasn't much different than either mech training or BA training.
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Do you know what is the Price different, C-Bills, between a UH Sprite and a Locust IIC?
A Locust IIC costs about 2.5 Million C-Bills, and doesn't require an entirely new training program. However the Bears do like their Assault Type Machines like the Kodiak, I think there could be a place for SH infantry in the Touman, if the cost for a point of Sprites was less than that of a Locust IIC and the training wasn't much different than either mech training or BA training.
Megamek estimates the cbill cost at around 1.2 mil. I was gonna check the MUL, but it doesn't want to load here right now.
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A quick question whats a 'UH Proto'? Ultra-Heavy I assume, but there's like 2 of them at most and only one the Bears would have seen. With how big the Scvvlalrha..th...the Horses UH Proto is, would the bears just go 'oh its a VERY light mech' rather than a Proto.
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More correctly the ProtoMech phenotype is a development of the Aerospace phenotype, which the Bears did not develop in the same direction as the Clans in general. (The Bears have aerospace bloodlines, they just don't look like those of the other Clans.)
with the large free birth pop in the new lands why not use those who are called dwarves to pilot our promoech
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Size is only part of the issue.
The typical Clan Aerospace phenotype has shown an increased resistance to the mentally damaging effects of the ProtoMechs' EI control system. You put a regular guy in a ProtoMech and they will go insane in months rather than years.
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While there are no rules for it, use of the EI system in Freebirths is problematic. By 3132, there was only a single Freebirth known to have undergone the surgery for EI implants and survived the process. And that's before he goes insane or kills himself from using it
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Well UH Protos don't utilize EI Systems to pilot them rather they use a modified PA(L) suit to pilot them, but it probably isn't enough to convince them. ProtoMechs were originally designed to make use of limited resources in the Homeworlds, but the Ghost Bears have plenty of resources available so they would probably stick with light 'Mechs.
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Well UH Protos don't utilize EI Systems to pilot them rather they use a modified PA(L) suit to pilot them, but it probably isn't enough to convince them. ProtoMechs were originally designed to make use of limited resources in the Homeworlds, but the Ghost Bears have plenty of resources available so they would probably stick with light 'Mechs.
No, Protos us EI. Its the Word's Machima Domeni that uses a PA (L) suit. Completely different things
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No, Protos us EI. Its the Word's Machima Domeni that uses a PA (L) suit. Completely different things
I am fairly sure that used a neural link of some form as well with all the drawbacks that has in BT, the PA(L) was just one part of the system.
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No, Protos us EI. Its the Word's Machima Domeni that uses a PA (L) suit. Completely different things
the Ultra Heavy proto's (10+ tons) introduced by the Society (and picked up by the Hells Horses) combine a PAL type interface with EI, with the pilot controlling movements at least partially like a battlesuit.
the standard size of proto's however (1 to 9 tons) use only EI.
presumably the larger proto's have issues with pure EI controls, requiring the hybrid approach. they still use the aerospace phenotype as pilots though.
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"Pushing ProtoMech design techniques to their limits, Ultraheavy ProtoMechs can reach a maximum weight of 15 tons (15,000 kilograms), overlapping the tonnage of Ultralight BattleMechs. Achieving this without using BattleMech-scale components—including gyros—meant creating a larger control system based around a modified PA(L) suit. In addition to giving the Ultra the same flexibility of control, this suit-based cockpit and control unit doubles as an escape system for ProtoMech warriors, something not possible for lighter, standard-weight ProtoMechs." (WoR, p204)
Other than this section, I have seen no other indication as to how the ultraheavy ProtoMechs are piloted. There is no mention of the PA(L) including EI or that aerospace phenotypes are required to pilot them.
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ugh, the toe flaps on the Bruin mini are a pain...have yet to get to the arm pegs...
also, please have a look :):
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/miniatures/introducing-the-rotorstorm/ (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/miniatures/introducing-the-rotorstorm/)
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I am fairly sure that used a neural link of some form as well with all the drawbacks that has in BT, the PA(L) was just one part of the system.
Machina Domini had to have a VDNI implant for the special PA(L) to interface with, yes.
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Machina Domini had to have a VDNI implant for the special PA(L) to interface with, yes.
Machina Domini BattleMechs are different from Ultraheavy ProtoMechs, which is what we have been talking about. While using similar technologies, UH ProtoMechs have (or at least had) a maximum tonnage of 15 tons while the only Machina Domini BattleMechs was the Gestalt which weighed 45 tons. UH ProtoMechs only required the modified PA(L) suit while the Machina Domini required a MechWarrior with a VDNI implant, a modified PA(L) suit AND a BattleMech Interface Cockpit.
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At some point somewhere either Paul or Ben mentioned that UH Protos did not have to be driven by aero phenotypes.
I'd like to see a future where the Cobras cross train there aero pilots to fly fighters and drive Sprites. Could be cool.
As for the Bears, I think tanks and protos typically end up doing the same things. The bears seem to have no issue with their tank corps.
And now a question...
Do the Bears still build Executioners in the Dark Age?
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I believe they do
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And now a question...
Do the Bears still build Executioners in the Dark Age?
The Bears were building the Gladiator as of 3079. While their industry took a beating during the second Combine-Dominion War, I don't belive its production was affected. Likewise, while the Bears were trying to shut down some of the Dominion's less efficient mercantile-minded businesses that were cranking out bad 'Mechs for the sake of bilking them (Kuma, Beowolf IIC), I figure that the Gladiator would be one of those that would be deemed worthy of maintaining in production.
On a related, I just simply assumed they discontinued production of the Vulture in favour of the Vulture Mk III.
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I need a faction with a stake in the Inner Sphere. I think I'm throwing in my lot with the Bears as a second faction. Always liked them and I thought the Rasalhague was cool pre-Bear.
Ultimately, how they fight is the clincher. Lots of mobile assault mechs is a good thing. I like the mech choices.
I'm a cav heavy and mobile assault guy. Looks like Grand Summoners and Karhus are around along with the old favorites. The Executioner is a favorite too. I like the Dark Age as an era to mix omnis with standard mechs.
Working on a binary now with one heavy cav and one assault star.
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The ProtoMech phenotype first perfected by the Blood Spirits was disseminated to all the Proto-using Clans, so ultra-heavy Protos are piloted by them, just like every other extant type in the modern era. Nobody uses the aero-pilot phenotype castoffs anymore.
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I need a faction with a stake in the Inner Sphere. I think I'm throwing in my lot with the Bears as a second faction. Always liked them and I thought the Rasalhague was cool pre-Bear.
Ultimately, how they fight is the clincher. Lots of mobile assault mechs is a good thing. I like the mech choices.
I'm a cav heavy and mobile assault guy. Looks like Grand Summoners and Karhus are around along with the old favorites. The Executioner is a favorite too. I like the Dark Age as an era to mix omnis with standard mechs.
Working on a binary now with one heavy cav and one assault star.
Sounds like Beta Galaxy to me. Careful thought has to go into BA selection and transportation. After 3140 they have basically given up on their transport tanks.
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I'm a cav heavy and mobile assault guy. Looks like Grand Summoners and Karhus are around along with the old favorites. The Executioner is a favorite too. I like the Dark Age as an era to mix omnis with standard mechs.
Working on a binary now with one heavy cav and one assault star.
Good thing the Bears and Horses are still friendly, else I might have to disown you. :P
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I need a faction with a stake in the Inner Sphere. I think I'm throwing in my lot with the Bears as a second faction. Always liked them and I thought the Rasalhague was cool pre-Bear.
Ultimately, how they fight is the clincher. Lots of mobile assault mechs is a good thing. I like the mech choices.
I'm a cav heavy and mobile assault guy. Looks like Grand Summoners and Karhus are around along with the old favorites. The Executioner is a favorite too. I like the Dark Age as an era to mix omnis with standard mechs.
Working on a binary now with one heavy cav and one assault star.
Welcome to the Den! I kind of feel your pain, as my secondary Clan has become Clan Coyote. Their story of being the underdog and slogging it through the bad times is just plain cool.
I've got a similar 3145 Binary planned out for when the models finally get released. It is designed to highlight 'Mechs from the new era.
This is what I'm planning on, and I expect to be waiting a while for some of these models, a long while:
Cav Nova: Karhu, Grand Summoner, Mad Cat Mk IV, Mad Dog Mk III, Mad Dog Mk IV, and 25 Wraith Battle Armor
Heavy Support Star: Kodiak II, Viking IIC x2, and Mad Dog Mk III x2
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Yeah right now I'm thinking a mix of new toys and old Bear favorites
Karhu
Mad Dog Mk III
Warhammer IIC 9
Grand Summoner
Rifleman IIC 8
Executioner
Kodiak II
Bruin
Grizzly
Hel
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Good thing the Bears and Horses are still friendly, else I might have to disown you. :P
Maybe if the Horses quit playing Horde all the time we'd be good friends again?
Heavy Support Star: Kodiak II, Viking IIC x2, and Mad Dog Mk III x2
Was also thinking this for a missile based star: except giving the Kodiak II a pass for an isorla Thunder Stallion and the Mad Dog III's for something more second line because I was building a second line formation.
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Was also thinking this for a missile based star: except giving the Kodiak II a pass for an isorla Thunder Stallion and the Mad Dog III's for something more second line because I was building a second line formation.
I know a lot of people don't like it, but the Ryoken II is a pretty decent second line missile boat.
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I know a lot of people don't like it, but the Ryoken II is a pretty decent second line missile boat.
8 rounds per LRM15. They effectively become SRMs because of the need for good shots. An old Archer 5R is better fire support.
The Ryoken II has its uses but missile support isn't one of them.
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A Hunchback IIC 3 might do just as well, if we really want to feel like we don't have enough ammo. I'm sure we could Trial or trade the Ravens for one or two. ;D
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8 rounds per LRM15. They effectively become SRMs because of the need for good shots. An old Archer 5R is better fire support.
The Ryoken II has its uses but missile support isn't one of them.
Agreed, although missile support is not a bad secondary roll if you primarily bring it as an anti-aircraft unit because you will probably not need to send flack up every single round (generally speaking, either the enemy will either run out of ASFs or kill it fairly quickly because those 2-Xs are absolutely brutal against ASFs).
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as much as i hate that mech, I'v seen it pull off some feats. Would it be worth it to just upgrade the LRM's to streaks? or should the design just be tossed?
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as much as i hate that mech, I'v seen it pull off some feats. Would it be worth it to just upgrade the LRM's to streaks? or should the design just be tossed?
Streak LRMs are usually a waste of weight because they are more or less even with the standard racks in terms of damage per ton once you factor everything in so they just loose a lot of flexibility for no real gain so I would not use them under any circumstances.
Now, without looking at the stats to see if there is anything silly like missing endo/ferro you could use to free up some weight or missing armor that needs to get added, my first thought is to downgrade the LRM racks to 4~5 LRM-5's and use the freed weight for more LRM ammo. That should let you carry plenty of standard ammo with room to spare for special munitions like smoke and mines which will be very useful in protecting your anti-aircraft platform from hostile ground fire while it does its job. It is really a fairly minor tweak, but carrying four 2-Xs means is honestly very close to perfect for its roll as is so there is no reason to make sweeping changes.
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Streak SRMs are not a bad option on 'Mechs as direct fire missile launcher because of the heat and ammo effects. Especially in an ECM environment.
Artemis V is best in aerospace and bare launchers on tanks.
Ryoken II is good at what it does but you have to question the efficiency of a 75 ton XL engined 'Mech as a long range vehicle immobilizer.
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Streak SRMs are not a bad option on 'Mechs as direct fire missile launcher because of the heat and ammo effects. Especially in an ECM environment.
Artemis V is best in aerospace and bare launchers on tanks.
Ryoken II is good at what it does but you have to question the efficiency of a 75 ton XL engined 'Mech as a long range vehicle immobilizer.
To be fair the timeframe in which it operates there are less mechs running around and more combined arms units, including lots of tanks and battle armor. That being said quad LBX-2's against battle armor should be devastating quiaff?
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Streak SRMs are not a bad option on 'Mechs as direct fire missile launcher because of the heat and ammo effects. Especially in an ECM environment.
Artemis V is best in aerospace and bare launchers on tanks.
Agreed, especially when you factor in the extra bit of range, but the question was Streak LRMs which are not nearly as good in comparison to the standard launchers as Streak SRMs.
Ryoken II is good at what it does but you have to question the efficiency of a 75 ton XL engined 'Mech as a long range vehicle immobilizer.
I mostly see it as an anti-aircraft platform because those 2-Xs are a terror for ASFs and four of them provide enough volume of fire to seriously threaten VTOLs as well, although it can most definitely immobilize tanks at long range as well. That combination is more than enough to earn it a place in the touman for dealing with things other than 'Mechs which can pose a very serious threat. After all, that 75 ton 'Mech is perfectly capable of destroying several 100 ton ASFs on its own or preventing a 100 ton tank from ever joining the fight so it is had to call it a waste so long as you keep it in its niche.
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ah see i LOVE streak LRMS, when they hit they all hit...so my variant of the Viking is very scary >:D I also like the fact that if i only have 8 rounds of ammo.i know that unless they got mad ams skills all 8 rounds will hit if i make my rolls..if i DON'T make my rolls then that's heat i don't have to worry about. So sometimes if i know firing that lrm will give me a little extra heat i don't wanna deal with, I'll make a called shot on the head so its a little harder of a shot. if it hits then i know theres a good chance i'm gonna ping your head off, if it don't hit? well no ammo was spent and the heat doesn't spike.
only thing i don't like about streak LRM's is that you can't use indirect fire with them. but since we clanners are all about dueling, that makes them an awesome dueling weapon.
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ah see i LOVE streak LRMS, when they hit they all hit...so my variant of the Viking is very scary >:D I also like the fact that if i only have 8 rounds of ammo.i know that unless they got mad ams skills all 8 rounds will hit if i make my rolls..if i DON'T make my rolls then that's heat i don't have to worry about. So sometimes if i know firing that lrm will give me a little extra heat i don't wanna deal with, I'll make a called shot on the head so its a little harder of a shot. if it hits then i know theres a good chance i'm gonna ping your head off, if it don't hit? well no ammo was spent and the heat doesn't spike.
only thing i don't like about streak LRM's is that you can't use indirect fire with them. but since we clanners are all about dueling, that makes them an awesome dueling weapon.
The problem is the extra weight. Streaks weigh so much more than standards that you can get the same throw weight with them even after paying for the extra tubes, ammo, and DHS so there is really no point. Clan LRMs are honestly kind of questionable as direct fire weapons anyways next to things like ERPPCs and Gauss Rifles, so loosing indirect fire and special munitions makes Streaks fall flat in comparison to the things you could be using instead. Using your Viking as an example, it might be dangerous, but do you honestly think it measures up to something like the Hellstar or the Thunder Hawk IIC I cooked up a while back with three Gauss Rifles, two ERPPCs, near-max armor, and enough DHS and ammo to blaze away with all of it?
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yes, yes i do. big difference is if you get a glancing blow on me with the Gauss rifle the dmg output goes down. i get a glancing blow with my streak LRM20 all 20 hit you. Your right about the extra weight and crit, but i'm personally fine with that since iv had some good experiences with the weapon system and am a fan of not generating heat if i don't make my to hit roll. I'm also a big fan of iATM's >:D
But anytime you wanna test these out in megamek let me know diablo O0
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I'm real torn on the issue of Viking IIc's. the variant foxx is talking about is the product of a campaign we were in, and pre-dates the release of the 3145 TROs that gave us the official Viking IIc. It was rather effective. The Clan Streak LRM launcher is essentially a drop-in replacement for an IS LRM pack of equivalent size. Given that the viking is already something of an effective brute as missile boats go, upgrades to streak only sharpen its bite.
there are counters, of course, but as someone who has fought beside and against the mech in question, I can vouch for it working.
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Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying your wrong because you don't like the weapon system. But I do think if you hung around me for a few games you would start to appreciate them. One thing i do like about battletech is we all have our own weapon preferences which leads to some great flavor.
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Streak SRMs
Opps. Streak LRMs
The problem is the extra weight. Streaks weigh so much more than standards that you can get the same throw weight with them even after paying for the extra tubes, ammo, and DHS so there is really no point.
Less so than you would imagine.
Very roughly and quickly
Damage Tons Ammo Heat
S15 15 7 2 5
2 x 15 18 7 3 10
LRM20+ 16 7 2 6
Went with the 15 because its a sweet spot weapon. So for similar tons you get similar damages and the rest is fiddling and preferences. Eg you carry less Streak Ammo cause you use less. HS in the engine. Artemis is direct fire unless it isn't.
I was actually pretty surprised myself when I did the comparisons the first time. In a more elaborate comparison with heat, crits, and ammo the Artemis V generally came out on top as the direct fire option with Streaks in second.
Mainly it comes down to the low damage ratio of naked LRMs. In the above case 9 vs 15. You need double LRMs to catch up. While I loved Artemis in 3060, the Jihad and C3i made us all go ECM mad.
But as you have noted above, LRMs are more than just direct fire weapons and that is where things get interesting and situational.
Finally as I noted before, different platforms change the equation. Without HS tanks love naked and Artemis LRMs. In aerospace ECM works differently so Artemis V for the win.
Direct fire big damage guns are better. It is that simple. Cluster weapons come into their own in LARGE numbers (enough to get those 1/36 hits) and when the big guns have opened armour breaches. Big damage single hits are more likely to cross those thresholds 'Mechs have (light 'Mech leg armour, 15 points on a side torso under 55 tons, 9 points of head) and cause disabling damage. Clusters just sandpaper a target.
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yes, yes i do. big difference is if you get a glancing blow on me with the Gauss rifle the dmg output goes down. i get a glancing blow with my streak LRM20 all 20 hit you. Your right about the extra weight and crit, but i'm personally fine with that since iv had some good experiences with the weapon system and am a fan of not generating heat if i don't make my to hit roll. I'm also a big fan of iATM's >:D
But anytime you wanna test these out in megamek let me know diablo O0
Ok, the glancing blow rules do change things a bit if you use them, although I am not convinced it is enough to beat out 5 headcappers. I am also not saying it is totally useless, I am just saying it does not have anything to put it ahead of this abomination (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/diablo48%27s-death-emporium-grand-reopening!/msg57382/#msg57382). A well designed 'Mech with less than stellar weapons can still easily be better than a poorly designed 'Mech which many canon designs qualify as so it is not hard to believe you have had good experiences with it.
I unfortunately do not have the time to play a game, but the full stats are in that link so you can load it into Mega Mek and line the two designs up for a slugging match yourself because there is not much thinking involved with a pair of 3/5 assault 'Mechs armed solely with long range weapons (giving them both to the bot is not a bad idea). I think the results should speak for themselves, I just do not have time to do it myself and it would break my streak of never actually playing with that abomination because it is way too mean.
As for iATMs, I was a big fan of those things before they got improved so the upgrade just makes me even more happy.
Opps. Streak LRMs
Less so than you would imagine.
Very roughly and quickly
Damage Tons Ammo Heat
S15 15 7 2 5
2 x 15 18 7 3 10
LRM20+ 16 7 2 6
Went with the 15 because its a sweet spot weapon. So for similar tons you get similar damages and the rest is fiddling and preferences. Eg you carry less Streak Ammo cause you use less. HS in the engine. Artemis is direct fire unless it isn't.
I was actually pretty surprised myself when I did the comparisons the first time. In a more elaborate comparison with heat, crits, and ammo the Artemis V generally came out on top as the direct fire option with Streaks in second.
Mainly it comes down to the low damage ratio of naked LRMs. In the above case 9 vs 15. You need double LRMs to catch up. While I loved Artemis in 3060, the Jihad and C3i made us all go ECM mad.
But as you have noted above, LRMs are more than just direct fire weapons and that is where things get interesting and situational.
Finally as I noted before, different platforms change the equation. Without HS tanks love naked and Artemis LRMs. In aerospace ECM works differently so Artemis V for the win.
Direct fire big damage guns are better. It is that simple. Cluster weapons come into their own in LARGE numbers (enough to get those 1/36 hits) and when the big guns have opened armour breaches. Big damage single hits are more likely to cross those thresholds 'Mechs have (light 'Mech leg armour, 15 points on a side torso under 55 tons, 9 points of head) and cause disabling damage. Clusters just sandpaper a target.
Yeah, that is basically what I was talking about. LRMs just cannot keep up with the big guns in direct fire so they normally rely on the extra flexibility of indirect fire and specialty ammo to give them a reason for existing, but Streaks loose that utility without getting more raw damage to make up for it so they just fall flat.
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Arlith was nice enough to help me test out the Hellstar vs Viking ERPPCS vs Streak LRMs!! i lost both times ^_^ first time was on a knife fight map (goofed on map picking) but was fun, did a lot of damage but lost after 10 rounds. Second map was bigger against the Cerberus version of the Hellstar (Custom version in MM) Fight ended up a draw. forgot to disable ammo ejection but i managed to put enough lrm rounds into the cockpit of the hellstar to kill the pilot.
Didn't try your version of the hellstar but i'm assuming the results might be around the same.
what i noticed is obviously the lrm's get a lot of headshots (when i only need a 7 on a called shot i'll take it with a streak) but 2 SLRM15s and 2 SLRM 20's are nothing to ignore when they have ECM providing ghost targets ;D.
then again it only takes one headcapper to get a headshot [blank]
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Second map was bigger against the Cerberus version of the Hellstar (Custom version in MM)
Cousin to the Warhawk C, for those wondering.
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The up side of the 2015 release schedule is that it means I'll be able to assemble the 'Mech portion of my 3145 First Rasalhague Bears.
Oh, and I'm fully expecting to have trouble limiting my purchasing of the Kodiak II, contingent that it's an awesome sculpt.
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Why do I feel like the only player that hates the Kodiak II? Sure it may be good, but it just does not feel like a Kodiak to me. Where is the big gun (20+ concentrated damage with one shot), the Bevy of Medium lasers? I love LRMs, but a Kodiak's Primary armament should not be LRMS....
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Why do I feel like the only player that hates the Kodiak II? Sure it may be good, but it just does not feel like a Kodiak to me. Where is the big gun (20+ concentrated damage with one shot), the Bevy of Medium lasers? I love LRMs, but a Kodiak's Primary armament should not be LRMS....
I'm not sure "Hates" is the word I'd use to describe my feelings regarding the Kodiak II. I sure prefer the original versions though.
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I say it is time we started making new Imps!!
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Why do I feel like the only player that hates the Kodiak II? Sure it may be good, but it just does not feel like a Kodiak to me. Where is the big gun (20+ concentrated damage with one shot), the Bevy of Medium lasers? I love LRMs, but a Kodiak's Primary armament should not be LRMS....
Has no hands. >:(
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same mech different role, the KII isn't a bad machine but its a sandblaster vs the K1's gut punches.
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Well we finally got to find out what happened to Hans Older brother, Cal the Awesome. Cal the Slayer of dreams and visions.
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Since I don't care about spoilers: so what happened? I hope the answer is got a shiny medal.
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Since I don't care about spoilers: so what happened? I hope the answer is got a shiny medal.
Cal got a bum rap. He was unable to pilot his 'Mech by himself due to injuries so he was forced to command the battle through a command console while another 'MechWarrior piloted the 'Mech. When Nikky K bent over to check on Cal, the MechWarrior panicked and fired, killing poor Nikky. This was intentionally left out of the history books to justify Clan Wolf's actions after Nikky was killed.
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one of the many great clan tragedy's
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See and this is why I'm a fan of the Wolerines
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So is there anything in Clan history that did not get covered up?
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So is there anything in Clan history that did not get covered up?
They originally came from the IS?
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So is there anything in Clan history that did not get covered up?
Shall we go into all your dirty misdeeds they covered up? :D
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They originally came from the IS?
WHAT? WHO TOLD YOU THIS!?!?
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A question for those in the Aerospace arm. The Ostrogoth http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ostrogoth heavy fighter, I would assume that due to the supply issues with the homeworlds, that the Ostrogoth would probably be the Bear's mainline heavy fighter/light assault fighter by now, replacing hard to get or repair Clan models.
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A question for those in the Aerospace arm. The Ostrogoth http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ostrogoth heavy fighter, I would assume that due to the supply issues with the homeworlds, that the Ostrogoth would probably be the Bear's mainline heavy fighter/light assault fighter by now, replacing hard to get or repair Clan models.
God I hope yes. Sarna lists it as an interceptor of dead Blakists. Personally I tend to pair it with Visigoths, but I only mess around with Aerospace in my spare time.
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A question for those in the Aerospace arm. The Ostrogoth http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ostrogoth heavy fighter, I would assume that due to the supply issues with the homeworlds, that the Ostrogoth would probably be the Bear's mainline heavy fighter/light assault fighter by now, replacing hard to get or repair Clan models.
Jengiz is the Bear's mainline heavy fighter/light assault fighter (there is no such thing as an assault fighter). The Ostrogoth is the Bear's mainline medium fighter. Read the fluff. You may cackle now.
Sulla is the Bear's mainline light fighter. RATs suggest Batu but that is an error. The Bears have a Sulla factory.
Huscarl, Ammon 2, and Corax are the secondline trio.
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False.
The Bears do have an assault fighter.
(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/c/c7/Aesir-Vanir_Class_DropShip.jpg)
:p
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And here I thought the Leviathan was their assault fighter. Oh well.
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And here I thought the Leviathan was their assault fighter. Oh well.
Well I was going to suggest that but...
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And here I thought the Leviathan was their assault fighter. Oh well.
;D Close! Most people don't know this but its really the spheres biggest space truck.
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;D Close! Most people don't know this but its really the spheres biggest space truck.
Optimus Leviathan Prime: Transform and Roll Out!
(I am going to Hell.)
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Optimus Leviathan Prime: Transform and Roll Out!
(I am going to Hell.)
I'll go with you...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQAvMUUJr4#t=30 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQAvMUUJr4#t=30)
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I'll go with you...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQAvMUUJr4#t=30 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQAvMUUJr4#t=30)
My brother and I are waiting for the Ravens to invent that to go with the Horse Quadvees (which I LOVE the concept of, just because I imagine the scientist meeting involved beer. LOTS of beer.)
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Another question for the Bears, this time directed at the design teams for the mechs...and no its not a case of why is this like this and not that..but about the skulls.
The Ursus, Ursus II, Kharu and I'm sure a few other mech's that we've produced recently feature skull like designs worked into their armour, in the case of the Usus's...Ursi? Ursusususes...its their entire torso
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/b/b8/Ursus.jpg
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/e/e4/Ursus_II.jpg
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/e/e0/Ursus-PR.jpg
Whilst the Kharu has skull shaped shoulder guards, is there any reason for this? Its not exactly totem mechs and whilst the Falcons have gone berzerk (more so than usual of late) for mech's with wings and Falcon like styling that is more totem-esque than slapping a skull motif on the mech.
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Whilst the Kharu has skull shaped shoulder guards, is there any reason for this? Its not exactly totem mechs and whilst the Falcons have gone berzerk (more so than usual of late) for mech's with wings and Falcon like styling that is more totem-esque than slapping a skull motif on the mech.
The skull motif of the Karhu was supposed to be based on bear skulls (there was a concept drawing released years ago that showed the Karhu's progeression to its final form, and it had a bear skull drawn next to the Karhu's skull-like shoulderpad to show the similarities), but I'm not sure if its the same in regards to the Ursus, though it would be easy enough to say that the Ursus skull motif was also inspired by bear skulls.
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Aye thats what I thought with the Kharu, i'm just supprised that the Bear's are not doing a Jade Falcon and styling some more of their mechs to look a bit more ursine (IE like the Kodiak) rather than just going "Lets slap a skull on it! Blood for the Bloo...um...sorry.."
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The skull motif of the Karhu was supposed to be based on bear skulls (there was a concept drawing released years ago that showed the Karhu's progeression to its final form, and it had a bear skull drawn next to the Karhu's skull-like shoulderpad to show the similarities), but I'm not sure if its the same in regards to the Ursus, though it would be easy enough to say that the Ursus skull motif was also inspired by bear skulls.
Really?? Hunh, I didn't know that...anyone haopen to have a pic of that concept drawing? Would be interested in seeing that
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Indeed that is interesting, perhaps it could have been better if they had styled the cockpit to look a bit more ursine skull esque rather than on its pauldrons.
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speaking of design motifs, I remember when the Cave Lion made its debut in AoD, and it just seemed to me like it was a natural Bear design, sharing the faux claws similarity with the Kodiak, especially after the Karhu was revealed and it had claws too (on one hand anyway, but in a setup very much like the Kodiak)
well it turned out to be a Nova Cat design, and nothing else Bear has claws, oh well, a lost opportunity IMO
I think claws would have been better than skulls
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Personally I am glad the Skull motif got nipped in the bud. Same with the claws. Simple and functional will do me.
As for the history of the skull motif, I really don't know. The root seems to be the art for the Ursus. But there was nothing special about that. Battletech has a long history of "look at me I am scary" designs.
The MWDA Karhu was the one that made it a motif. Someone, somewhere clearly wanted it. But at the same time unique MWDA Dominion equipment was so rare the concept never really got off the ground.
Compare with the MWDA Falcon motif. Plenty of releases, new 'Mechs, and a "lovely" new winged style to go with it. And a requirement to squeeze in tonnage-wasteful wings and talons into BT 'Mechs. Hmmm.
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Ahh thanks for clearing it up :) I love the lunacy of the stylized Falcon mechs although one could 'blame' the Balius for starting this ball rolling :p And for all the tonnage wasting the Falcons are producing some rather nasty winged machines.
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Arguably the Kodiak started the ball rolling back in Invading Clans.
The oldest in game totem is probably the Mandrill.
The Falcons style is more about MWDA art styles.
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Personally I am glad the Skull motif got nipped in the bud.
I agree, instead of using skulls on the Ursus and Karhu, they should have gone for a solid bear head motif similar to the Khan insignia instead, or even claw epaulets like the one the one found on the Rogue Bear BA. To me skulls seem more like something Pirates or "unsophisticated" powers would use, not something a Clan that presides over one of the most prosperous areas of the IS, and where each individual strives to create a "Great Work", would use. With that kind of "artistic" background, I would have expected the Bears to have more well sculpted aesthetic designs that brings their totem animal to life, not boxy things with skulls (which is the opposite of bringing something to "life") haphazardly pasted on them. On the other hand, if painted like this picture I found of the Ursus, a skull motif actually looks pretty intimidating and so probably has a place on the Battlefield, though it shouldn't be overdone and made the standard of their overall mech designs as what seemed to have been planned.
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Clan Ghostbear: we have the resources to waste on making our battlemechs look like walking skulls. #Rekt
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Ya know cause equipping and mantaining thirteen plus galaxies and three of the largest warships ever is pretty easy
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i blame the alshain space dance.
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Ya know cause equipping and mantaining thirteen plus galaxies and three of the largest warships ever is pretty easy
The Falcons were running more.
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Running more?In what direction? ;D
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The Falcons were running more.
I had a long post with numbers and stats and then realized it's too early to get in a Trial over this.
We're the Bears, we rock.
I'm going back to sleep. #P
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Looks like Megamek can handle anti BA modes for Bearhunters and King Davids now.
Okay, those rules have been around for a while now so why do we care? Well with MM you can punch through a lot of games very quickly.
So for the last hour I have been punching though BA duels on the old "Battletech" map.
The most spectacular result saw a Point of Golems slice through a platoon of Kishi, Void, Raiden II, and Zhou squads. But the Golem was competitive against all the Clan suits like the Black Wolf, Corona, Cuchulainn, Ironhold, and Warg though all the Bear suits suffer against Reactive Armoured suits. It might be a good thing we no longer have the Wolves on the border with their Black Wolf and reactive Warg.
I have to say you really need to keep away from Bearhunters as I found when facing Onis. So much so it was better to unload missiles into them before hard to hit suits like Voids. If you can't generate large amounts of defensive fire or some sort of terrain blockage bad things will happen when the Bearhunters get to 1 hex.
On the other hand King Davids seem effective against fast moving stealth suits. Range means accuracy while stealth armour means the fast suits have compromise on total armour making 1D6 damage potentially devastating. The Sloth (Huntsman) did very bad things to Voids and Pumas while the Phalanx A can stand up to Grenadiers.
So looks like you have some opportunities ahead Foxxy
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Looks like Megamek can handle anti BA modes for Bearhunters and King Davids now.
Okay, those rules have been around for a while now so why do we care?
TW or TO?
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Looks like Megamek can handle anti BA modes for Bearhunters and King Davids now.
Okay, those rules have been around for a while now so why do we care? Well with MM you can punch through a lot of games very quickly.
So for the last hour I have been punching though BA duels on the old "Battletech" map.
The most spectacular result saw a Point of Golems slice through a platoon of Kishi, Void, Raiden II, and Zhou squads. But the Golem was competitive against all the Clan suits like the Black Wolf, Corona, Cuchulainn, Ironhold, and Warg though all the Bear suits suffer against Reactive Armoured suits. It might be a good thing we no longer have the Wolves on the border with their Black Wolf and reactive Warg.
I have to say you really need to keep away from Bearhunters as I found when facing Onis. So much so it was better to unload missiles into them before hard to hit suits like Voids. If you can't generate large amounts of defensive fire or some sort of terrain blockage bad things will happen when the Bearhunters get to 1 hex.
On the other hand King Davids seem effective against fast moving stealth suits. Range means accuracy while stealth armour means the fast suits have compromise on total armour making 1D6 damage potentially devastating. The Sloth (Huntsman) did very bad things to Voids and Pumas while the Phalanx A can stand up to Grenadiers.
So looks like you have some opportunities ahead Foxxy
{>{> {>{> :Jumpy: ooooh ho ho ho, Now we're cooking with BA! [brew]
But seriously...i'm gonna force some opfor into a building to deal with my golems. The cute look wolf warriors faces make when they light the building on fire and realize nothing is happening...so they have to come in and get me out personally >:D
*runs off cackling* Gyakakakakakaka
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TW or TO?
TO
{>{> {>{> :Jumpy: ooooh ho ho ho, Now we're cooking with BA! [brew]
But seriously...i'm gonna force some opfor into a building to deal with my golems. The cute look wolf warriors faces make when they light the building on fire and realize nothing is happening...so they have to come in and get me out personally >:D
*runs off cackling* Gyakakakakakaka
Interestingly, given the way buildings absorb damage Bearhunters might be the best option for fighting inside a building.
Oh. And Buraq HKs. Look at the little pony way over ack...
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TO
Can you please provide a page number or section; I can't seem to locate anything in the book.
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"Corrected second printing" (2013)
P109
Battle Armor vs. Battle Armor Table
To summarise:
Bearhunter - 3D6
King David - 1D6
Plasma Rifle - 2+1D6 (std damage against fire resistant armor)
Apply to single trooper.
Standard cluster roll. Apply above for each hit.
Or on average, for a 5 warrior Point, 3 hits of
Bearhunter - 10.5 (max 18)
King David - 3.5 (max 6)
Plasma Rifle - 5.5 (max 8)
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Thanks, Errata for the win!
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"Corrected second printing" (2013)
P109
Battle Armor vs. Battle Armor Table
To summarise:
Bearhunter - 3D6
King David - 1D6
Plasma Rifle - 2+1D6 (std damage against fire resistant armor)
Apply to single trooper.
Standard cluster roll. Apply above for each hit.
Or on average, for a 5 warrior Point, 3 hits of
Bearhunter - 10.5 (max 18)
King David - 3.5 (max 6)
Plasma Rifle - 5.5 (max 8)
...And the Golem has two of those Bearhunters for an average of six, 10.5 point hits. With those kinds of numbers, you can roll badly and still annihilate many BA units in a single hit. When you throw in the stupid heavy armor on that suit, it is really not surprising it made such a mess of the enemy in your tests.
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Steve packaged a version that has these in it so i plan on putting them to use tonight. >:D
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...And the Golem has two of those Bearhunters for an average of six, 10.5 point hits. With those kinds of numbers, you can roll badly and still annihilate many BA units in a single hit. When you throw in the stupid heavy armor on that suit, it is really not surprising it made such a mess of the enemy in your tests.
But what you forget is that Bearhunters have no short range and suffer a +1 to-hit. You need that armour to get close. And 2MP means plenty of suits can play keep away. So hits are hard to achieve even if you get close enough.
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But what you forget is that Bearhunters have no short range and suffer a +1 to-hit. You need that armour to get close. And 2MP means plenty of suits can play keep away. So hits are hard to achieve even if you get close enough.
True, although bubbles of doom have plenty of value on their own and those suits do not go away easily. You can get a lot of mileage out those suits just displacing enemy BA so they cannot do their job or have to expose themselves to your other units, and things get much better for the Golem in cities where it is easier to get in close like that.
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You almost need to lay them down on a map like a minefield; you shall not pass, ok you can but look out >:D
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You almost need to lay them down on a map like a minefield; you shall not pass, ok you can but look out >:D
..... Golem,Golem *pets the BA* my....Precious
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At 1000BV you need more than a minefield out of a Golem.
Lately I have been having success in double blind city games with a
Golem
Golem (Support)
Elemental (APGR)
Elemental (APGR)
Kobold IIC
Kobold sits back and spots while the rest penetrates the lines.
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Double blind city games are definitely a good place for Golems. You can use buildings as cover to sneak up on people and surprise them with those Bearhunters, and they also work great for taking and holding buildings.
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Double blind city games are definitely a good place for Golems. You can use buildings as cover to sneak up on people and surprise them with those Bearhunters, and they also work great for taking and holding buildings.
There's taking and holding a building and then there's raising the flag and arring at any forces that come near you.
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Would have preferred to stay in the Den...
Anyhow I was going through the products from last year on the BT wiki and the product list showed that the number of products released has again declined, 2014 looks rather thin compared to previous years.
This and a thread(http://bg.battletech.com/forums/ask-the-lead-developers/storyline/) in the "Ask the Lead Developers" section made me think about the direction BT is going.
Personally I didn't take a look into anything of the DA and only got a bit info about it by things that were mentioned on this board, and so I have the feeling of a huge gap ahead that I can't bridge, the few books that cover anything of these 50 years seem to give rather tiny info compared to the timeframe they cover and that the Ghostbears change to the Rasalhague Dominion in 3103 is also not helpful in any way.
Any future product that lays after the DA(like the product that is set in 3150-3151 that Herb mentions in the other thread) wouldn't really attract me unless it might be a book that sums up the DA.
So with this darkness ahead I rather look forward to any publication that would cover the past instead the future of Clan Ghostbear.
But it looks like the sausage is eaten from both ends, well as long as the past and glorious times of Clan Ghostbear are covered too I don't mind but still a way of bridging to and over the DA would be welcomed, I don't what to stay behind like the guys back in the 90's that refused to acknowledge the Clan Invasion and are still "trapped" in 3025, at least I can understand them now somehow.
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Well here in the Lyran Commonwealth our best days ar... wait. Wrong thread.
So what are you looking for exactly? Books with Dominion history? Future books? That was a pretty rambling post that looked worryingly like a good bye.
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Good bye? Hell NO!
As Herb said they are "catching our breath before the next great upheaval", this likely(or hopefully) explains the rather declining amount of products released.
Now in the light of this and the coming BT products that cover the past(1st & 2nd SW) and future/present(post DA) I was wondering what would the fans here prefer, what would they wish to see and where do they see the future of BT especially when the past might take a bigger chunk of the future releases.
As said my thoughts are that I prefer to see the past covered before the future(present) is continued unless the gap from post Jihad to the DA and the DA itself is properly covered by at least some specific sourcebooks.
What Herb lists isn't very much to cover 50 years + the DA:
* Field Manual: 3085
* Interstellar Expeditions (Interstellar Players 3)
* Technical Readout: Prototypes
* Historical: Wars of the Republic Era
* Field Manual: 3145
* Era Report: 3145
IP3 & H:WotRE are real sourcebooks but the rest is just two FMs, one FR and a TRO and that is really not much.
As silly as it sounds but all that feels almost thiner than the 20 Year Update, especially when he admits that a lot info comes from the DA novels who I don't see as replacement for a real good sourcebook.
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I think you’re not appreciating the huge amount of resources that went into the plastic lance packs. CGL believes that they are very important to release so I suspect they’ve had priority over sourcebooks for a while. So please wait till those resources have been recovered before lamenting the lack of new books.
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Would be an explanation, I guess they did melt all their pens to form these plastic mechs and obviously without a pen no writer can make bring anything on paper...
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Writers and the artists who illustrate said writings don't work for free - and shouldn't be asked to. There's a lot of investment that goes into plastic molds and the initial production runs. Which means for a small company like CGL, there's little money left over for publishing activities.
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I think you’re not appreciating the huge amount of resources that went into the plastic lance packs. CGL believes that they are very important to release so I suspect they’ve had priority over sourcebooks for a while. So please wait till those resources have been recovered before lamenting the lack of new books.
Hm, do we have any confirmation on if/when we will be getting that kind of information? I was never involved in the original Dark Age stuff so I am not really sure what there actually is, but I feel like there must be a huge volume of already published material that could be compiled into a book or PDF to be re-released in a way that is easier for those of us that missed it the first time around to get our hands on and chew through. I know they are doing a similar thing with e-book releases of old novels (which I need to get and marathon sometime) so it should be easy enough to do with whatever material was written for the older Dark Age products.
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Writers and the artists who illustrate said writings don't work for free - and shouldn't be asked to. There's a lot of investment that goes into plastic molds and the initial production runs. Which means for a small company like CGL, there's little money left over for publishing activities.
I neither expected nor asked for it, but I expect that a company that mainly does books keeps doing that instead of letting this area of operation decline just to release plastic miniatures, especially when other companies already do miniatures for BT but no other company is doing books for BT.
And that it was so has still to be confirmed, Herbs statement sounds more like "taking a creative break" instead of "shifted the money to make toys".
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A thought, we all know that the Bear's tend to prefer large (or fast, or preferably both) machines. With the introduction of the Tomahawk II as THE Clan 100 tonne assault mech (assuming that Dire Wolves can't be built any more or are built in limited numbers) Do folks think that the Bear's would build their own counter to this new large front line Omni as I'm going to guess that the Wolf Empire is going to do EVERYTHING it can to keep the Tommy II exclusive to their Clan.
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Well, the Bears are still building Kodiaks, and there were those rather fetching NTNU Executioners. IMO Those suit them a lot better than the tommy does, though I doubt they'd totally spurn one if they took it isorla, it IS still a Clan Omnimech.
If I were to build a bear star incorporating a Tomahawk II, it'd probably be accompanied by Deimoses and Viking IIc's. Not that the Viking IIc is terribly popular within the dominion, but they can produce it, and the Deimos, being a raven product is ostentensibly made by an ally.
I also don't think the Tomahawk II is going to be overtly jealously guarded. It's not a totem or anything, it's just a good mech. Not that they'll give it away, but it's not a matter of honor to defend it's exclusivity. They managed okay with the Dire Wolf being a non-exclusive mech.
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Highest BV Tomahawk II: B 3513
Highest BV Executioner: G 3825
The F is also superior and I am more than happy to use an I to duel assault 'Mechs.
The Shrike, Tundra Wolf, Demios, Dire Wolf, and Hellstar all have superior BVed variants.
The Gyrfalcon has a super variant thanks to TSEMP and the Turkina Z is the current king at 3935 BV, but it is running Society tech.
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I'm sure foxx will be along shortly as well, to speak of the numerous times he has gone to town on my poor Tomahawk IIs with those very same executioners.
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And remember, While the Ghost Bears like bigger mechs, they are usually faster mechs as well. All of our common (produced) front-line Omni-mechs go 4/6 or faster. We have really embraced the speed part of the attack, but not over zealously like the Ice Hellions. A 3/5 assault mech is nice, but we generally only use those is garrison clusters where movement is not as necessary. The Executioner is not likely to be replaced anytime soon.
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A thought, we all know that the Bear's tend to prefer large (or fast, or preferably both) machines. With the introduction of the Tomahawk II as THE Clan 100 tonne assault mech (assuming that Dire Wolves can't be built any more or are built in limited numbers) Do folks think that the Bear's would build their own counter to this new large front line Omni as I'm going to guess that the Wolf Empire is going to do EVERYTHING it can to keep the Tommy II exclusive to their Clan.
Tomahawk II is available to the Hell's Horses so just jump the boarder and trail for a few.
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And remember, While the Ghost Bears like bigger mechs, they are usually faster mechs as well. All of our common (produced) front-line Omni-mechs go 4/6 or faster. We have really embraced the speed part of the attack, but not over zealously like the Ice Hellions. A 3/5 assault mech is nice, but we generally only use those is garrison clusters where movement is not as necessary. The Executioner is not likely to be replaced anytime soon.
One thing to keep in mind is that we seem to have largely transitioned our assault formations to standard BattleMechs over the years regardless of weather they are front or second line so that is not necessarily indicative of anything beyond that general trend. Of course, a lot of those standard designs are also 4/6, but we do also have our share of 3/5 designs running (or more accurately plodding) around.
Also, we do have access to the Raven's 3/5(6) Deimos and there are still a handful of Dire Wolves that refuse to die so whatever Tomahawk II's we have picked up are not alone in the slow assault category.
Now, with all that said, I would love to see us put a 100 ton, 3/5 monster of an omni into production, especially if it takes advantage of Ferro-Lamellor Armor to be an absolute brick.
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One thing to keep in mind is that we seem to have largely transitioned our assault formations to standard BattleMechs over the years regardless of weather they are front or second line so that is not necessarily indicative of anything beyond that general trend. Of course, a lot of those standard designs are also 4/6, but we do also have our share of 3/5 designs running (or more accurately plodding) around.
Also, we do have access to the Raven's 3/5(6) Deimos and there are still a handful of Dire Wolves that refuse to die so whatever Tomahawk II's we have picked up are not alone in the slow assault category.
Now, with all that said, I would love to see us put a 100 ton, 3/5 monster of an omni into production, especially if it takes advantage of Ferro-Lamellor Armor to be an absolute brick.
"We're calling it the Rasputin."
"Scientist Steve, you are fired."
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A Clan Sea Fox buddy of mine as issued a Trial of Possession for my dining room table. (I'm not sure if he means to actually take my table should he win. My wife might have a rather violent reaction if he wins and that is actually his intention. :)))
After bidding, we are down to the following forces, to be balanced at 15,000BV2.
Clan Sea Fox Star (Attackers)
Warhammer IIC 4
Karhu B
Black Hawk (Standard)
Tiburon
Koshi (Standard)
2nd Bear Regulars (Defenders)
Arcas
Kodiak 2
Bruin
At 15,000BV2, he will have mostly Clan standard pilots with one pilot upgraded to veteran level skills. I'm guessing he would be looking to put his best gunner in the Karhu. My Arcas pilot is at 2/2 with the other two pilots at 2/3. He has the advantage in numbers and total tons, but my pilots are a bit better.
As the defender, I have selected the canyon maps as our battleground. He has two `Mechs without jump jets, so that should limit his Star's total mobility at least some.
I do not know if he plans to stick to zellbrigen, and to be a bit cheeky I might keep my Ursus and Grizzly on the side of the table in the case that he breaks it. Then I can call in my last bid with little to no honor loss. O0
Over all, I'm feeling good about my chances of victory moving into the fight. The Karhu and the Warhammer IIC might be troublesome pains to put down, but if I can manage to get them damaged/mitigated/destroyed early enough, then victory in the Trial should be attainable.
I will let you all know how it goes. It should be a pretty good battle.
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A thought, we all know that the Bear's tend to prefer large (or fast, or preferably both) machines. With the introduction of the Tomahawk II as THE Clan 100 tonne assault mech (assuming that Dire Wolves can't be built any more or are built in limited numbers) Do folks think that the Bear's would build their own counter to this new large front line Omni as I'm going to guess that the Wolf Empire is going to do EVERYTHING it can to keep the Tommy II exclusive to their Clan.
When I was looking at the Tomahawk II entry in TRO 3145 Clans a few months back, the thought also occured to me that the Bears don't really have anything in their production line that comes close to the Tomahawk II (or even the Dire Wolf) in regards to pod space availability, which is what inspired me to come up with the "Cave Bear (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/cave-bear-a-rasalhague-dominion-3145-100-ton-omnimech/)". Even though I could have, I didn't use Ferro-Lamellor armor because I wanted the "Cave Bear" to have a lot of crit space to go along with the high pod space.
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When I was looking at the Tomahawk II entry in TRO 3145 Clans a few months back, the thought also occured to me that the Bears don't really have anything in their production line that comes close to the Tomahawk II (or even the Dire Wolf) in regards to pod space availability, which is what inspired me to come up with the "Cave Bear (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/cave-bear-a-rasalhague-dominion-3145-100-ton-omnimech/)". Even though I could have, I didn't use Ferro-Lamellor armor because I wanted the "Cave Bear" to have a lot of crit space to go along with the high pod space.
That is basically a Dire Wolf clone.
As for the crit space limitations of FL, I got around that on my own design by using a SFE which worked quite well. You obviously loose about 10 tons of pod space, but it makes the 'Mech even tougher and the increased durability balances out the lost firepower when you compare it to the old Dire Wolf (or the similar Tomahawk II) which makes the 'Mechs nicely distinct despite the fact that they have the same weight and speed.
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"We're calling it the Rasputin."
"Scientist Steve, you are fired."
funny enough, and foxx can vouch for me on this, I've long piloted a Hardened Armor Stone Rhino known as "Rasputin"
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funny enough, and foxx can vouch for me on this, I've long piloted a Hardened Armor Stone Rhino known as "Rasputin"
Was just gonna post the irony of his joke being true ;D also my love of taking out tomahawk's with Executioners. Hell the other day in that campaign game when i was piloting a TII and saw my zell opponent was one of the executioners i typically use to shame other assaults....I knew what the result was gonna be but tried to convince myself other wise :'(
Is anyone else just having too much fun with the Karhu G? I'm not a really big fan of heavy lasers but i just love this mech.
PS. i made a mech thats basically a offspring of a Kingfisher and a Direwolf, but its so ugly i'm ashamed to post it on the forums, but its really hard to kill!
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PS. i made a mech thats basically a offspring of a Kingfisher and a Direwolf, but its so ugly i'm ashamed to post it on the forums, but its really hard to kill!
That sounds a lot like the assault I was talking about earlier. 22 tons of FL Armor (that is the max for a 100 ton frame) and a SFE makes a 'Mech that is very hard to kill. If you want to see the stats, it is the first design posted in my design thread in the link in my signature, although I think some of the configurations might be a bit out of date.
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That sounds a lot like the assault I was talking about earlier. 22 tons of FL Armor (that is the max for a 100 ton frame) and a SFE makes a 'Mech that is very hard to kill. If you want to see the stats, it is the first design posted in my design thread in the link in my signature, although I think some of the configurations might be a bit out of date.
I went a little further, i armored the gyro and the cockpit >:D the way i tested it was to put it a hex away from a tomahawk/direwolf (tested it against both) and had them lob hellfire at each other from point blank range. But i think armoring the gyro and the cockpit makes it invalid to be a omni right? so i'm under the assumption its an illegal design *another reason i havn't posted it*
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I went a little further, i armored the gyro and the cockpit >:D the way i tested it was to put it a hex away from a tomahawk/direwolf (tested it against both) and had them lob hellfire at each other from point blank range. But i think armoring the gyro and the cockpit makes it invalid to be a omni right? so i'm under the assumption its an illegal design *another reason i havn't posted it*
I am honestly not sure about that either, although a quick check on Sarna makes it look like you can so long as you do it during initial unit design. That said, armored components always seemed like a bit of a waste to me, especially for the cockpit which is highly unlikely to take a crit, so I never use them. The Gyro is the one component I can kind of see the logic in armoring, but now we have Heavy Duty Gyros and Compact Gyros which offer similar protection for less weight so I would rather use them instead.
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it has a heavy duty gyro. in one match it took a couple gyro hits and kept ticking. We also have a lot of headshots in our games so i just wanted something that would help protect the pilot. I'll have to find it when i'm back home and not at my girlfriends but it had other features to help it survive longer.
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it has a heavy duty gyro. in one match it took a couple gyro hits and kept ticking. We also have a lot of headshots in our games so i just wanted something that would help protect the pilot. I'll have to find it when i'm back home and not at my girlfriends but it had other features to help it survive longer.
Ah, I see, although I feel like that is going to cost you more in lost firepower than it gives back in survivability more often than not. Also, head shots tend to kill a 'Mech based on location destruction rather than critting the cockpit which is not something an armored cockpit is going to help you with.
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omnis are allowed to armor components. Savage Wolf has a few.
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The 3/5 assault's role is typically fire support. Range and speed will kill a slow brawler these days.
Now arguably the role is filled by the Viking IIC (fun fact went hardened over FL because guess who invented Clan hardened. Oh, and crits). But more relevantly fire support is covered by the Mad Dogs. That's why there is no fire support Karhu.
Executioners and Kodiaks (oh how I loath that 'Mech) fill the trooper and brawler role respectively.
If I had the opportunity to fix up the touman from scratch.
1. A fast light. The Wulfen comes to mind.
2. Upgrade the Executioner.
3. Kill off the Kodiak.
The BattleMech issue is just a matter of time. We don't make that many. Of course after 150 years of OmniMechs none of the Clans had killed off BattleMechs in 3050.
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The Gyro is the one component I can kind of see the logic in armoring, but now we have Heavy Duty Gyros and Compact Gyros which offer similar protection for less weight so I would rather use them instead.
Actually, HD gyros are always heavier (and much more expensive) than an equivalent armored gyro. Not only that, but HD gyros can only take one extra hit overall, whereas armored gyros can take one extra hit per crit slot, making them much tougher. Really, as far as I can tell, there is literally no advantage to taking an HD gyro when you could armor a standard gyro instead.
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The 3/5 assault's role is typically fire support. Range and speed will kill a slow brawler these days.
Now arguably the role is filled by the Viking IIC (fun fact went hardened over FL because guess who invented Clan hardened. Oh, and crits). But more relevantly fire support is covered by the Mad Dogs. That's why there is no fire support Karhu.
That is a fair assessment of the roll of 3/5 assaults, although a short range supplementary battery is also useful to check a charging enemy. The Viking IIC is also not a bad fire support platform, but the lack of big hole punchers is something of a limitation so something with a few ERPPCs and maybe Gauss Rifles would be a good addition to our arsenal. Also, assault omnis are extremely helpful for urban combat because you can swap from your normal fire support configuration to a jumping brawler that will be much more effective in a city, especially if they have FL armor to take a lot of the bite out of infantry weapons (infantry do damage in 2-point clusters which get reduced to 1 by FL for half damage).
As for the other designs, it is useful to have a fire support configuration for every omni in case you wind up with a bunch of Karhus and no Mad Dogs or have a lot of standard brawlers and need all your omnis providing fire support. Also, lighter designs like the Mad Dog do not make good substitutes for assaults because they do not have the armor and firepower to really lay into the enemy and shrug off the return fire like assaults do (incidentally, that need to absorb a huge amount of damage is a big part of why I think FL is a good choice for a new 100 ton assault omni).
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Trial of Possession follow-up. (I set the stage in my last post, above.)
As the attacker, Clan Sea Fox issued duel challenges. He challenged my Arcas with his Karhu B and my Bruin with his Warhammer IIC 4. He then bid a 3v1 challenge of his Tiburon, Koshi (Standard), and Black Hawk (Standard) against my Kodiak 2. I heartily accepted his terms, and the battle proceeded.
The Arcas kept the Karhu at range for more than half the game, mitigating the effectiveness of the OmniMech's big autocannon. The Bruin and Warhammer IIC slugged it out the entire game with both `Mechs taking massive damage until the final two rounds when the Bruin deprived the Warhammer IIC of key weapon systems and won the upper hand. The Kodiak had a grand time, leading his three opponents into a narrow part of the canyon map where their maneuverability and speed counted for nothing, and they got chewed up one at a time despite their attempts to concentrate their firepower.
At the end of Round 7, Clan Sea Fox requested hegira. The Tiburon and Warhammer IIC were both out of the fight, with the Koshi one good whisper from toppling over. The Karhu had armor breaches all over its right side, and the Black Hawk was the best looking Sea Fox `Mech with nary a scratch. All three of the Ghost Bear `Mechs were operational, with the Bruin and Arcas looking beat up but still functional.
My opponent judged that the rest of the battle would not go his way, thus the request to withdraw. Clan Ghost Bear granted Clan Sea Fox's request, and Clan Ghost Bear was declared the victor.
Afterwards, we had an after action strategy session where we discussed the moves made by each player and how the strategies could have been improved. Basically, it came down to Clan Sea Fox picking the wrong targets. It was decided that a better set of match-ups would have been as follows: Karhu vs Bruin, Warhammer IIC vs Kodiak, and the remaining three would have taken turns harassing and weakening the Arcas, perhaps even bidding a 2v1 from the beginning and leaving one `Mech in reserve of the rest of the units.
The Karhu would have been able to use its speed to get into kill range with the Bruin, utilizing maneuverability that the Warhammer IIC just did not have. The Warhammer IIC would have been able to punish the Kodiak at range, engaging outside of the Kodiak's kill radius. While the Kodiak would no doubt have eventually closed on the Warhammer IIC, it would have suffered much greater damage doing so than it did against the trio of lighter `Mechs.
Of course, there are no guarantees, but that was how we saw the battle when looking back. The Sea Fox player could have picked much better fights. As it was, I got exactly the match-ups I wanted and used the terrain to my advantage (Without breaking LOS, of course! No dezgra points for this Ghost Bear!).
We both had a lot of fun with the battle, though, and he promises that the next Trial will not be so easy for me to win. ::)
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that sounds like a lot of fun. O0 I wish I could find people whom I could bid against, like that...
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since he was the Sea Foxs, i'm assuming he trialed for your table so he could sell you a new one ;)
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since he was the Sea Foxs, i'm assuming he trialed for your table so he could sell you a new one ;)
or the same one back again, plus a new coat of paint?
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my latest painted mini
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/miniatures/bruin-44317/ (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/miniatures/bruin-44317/)
Steve, think you especially might like this :)
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I must not run away i must not run away!
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Totally a delayed reaction but....You don't like the Karhu, Jellico? :'(
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I designed the Karhu and like it.
I don't like the Kodiak because it draws off vital TRO spots needed for Omni renewal. See TRO3145 as an example.
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I designed the Karhu and like it.
I don't like the Kodiak because it draws off vital TRO spots needed for Omni renewal. See TRO3145 as an example.
Personally, I would have been happier if the bears got a Executioner II or a Devil Bear, or some other new assault Omni, and that omni's entry could have mentioned it being paired with the still-produced-original Kodiak on occasion. Bam. TRO Spot freed, AND we get the superior Kodiak. >_>
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Exe II would have made sense what with all the other original Omni upgrades going around...
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Agreed, a Grand Executioner or Executioner II would make a lot more sense, the Kodiak is an old machine and whilst I would assume that there's a production line for the Kodiak and Kodiak II in Dominion space and assumedly one for the Executioner as well then why not phase out the older Executioner and start to replace it with a new model one that builds on the experience from fighting (and living) in the IS.
Perhaps have it as a standard mech instead of an Omni like the Hel...err..Hellbringer II. The latter configs of the Executioner are fine even if it still has its wonky armour layout whilst the Prime should be quietly consigned to the scrapheap of history. The Scientist who designed that seemingly intended for the thing to walk across the surface of a star without any heat issues such was its oversinking.
I'd assume that the Kodiak would never go out of production, its the Clan's totem mech after all (although they could make a nice new 100 tonne omni and call it a Ghost Bear....)
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Exe II would have made sense what with all the other original Omni upgrades going around...
Even though I am not a huge fan of the other neo-Omni designs, I would really like to see an Exe update.
Dropping the Kodiak would be unfortunate. For one thing, I can see the mech being deployed to a lot of second-line and garrison units. I also really like the awkwardly running "I need a hug!" pose of the mini.
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My Ghost Bear "Secret" Clone, loves his Kodiak and Karhu...Like an older and younger brother...the comment about the Kodiak wanting a hug is so true ;D
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I'm of the opinion that a ExeII would break the game and no one would ever play with the bears anymore. The combine would build a space wall, The Falcons would respond to every challenge by dropping any remaining warships,when they run out they will resort to dropping dropships, the irony of this will wear off after the first couple of crash's into ghostbear clusters.
But yes a Executioner II would be the sickness O0 I mean..we're ghostbears, why make a new mech when we can just slap a new coat of paint on it and call it the II? or III...or IV...
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IMHO, if you're going to do a follow-up to the Executioner, better to go the Mk IV route and give it ferro-lam. (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/executioner-mk-iv/)
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Only thing i'd do is remove the fixed JJ's, sure its a bit less flavourful but it worked with the Thor II and gives you more options with the big machine without having 8 tonnes nommed by JJ's when they might not be needed.
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I have done a simple update of the Gladiator prime but i'm not sure how to put those awesome scrolling tech sheets in and I designed it on REMLAB.
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i don't think remlab has the ability to automaically do up a tech read out yet
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Aye and its not got anything like Ferro Lammy in it. Its sadly the only one I can use whilst at work.
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I have been designing Executioner IIs since I first saw the "mk1 omnis" many years ago.
First I can't post anything because then they can't be used in TROs.
Next, FL doesn't work on Executioners. FL is roughly equivalent to FF unless you use 90% armour or more. At the same time it has a much higher crit cost. The Executioner is no where near max armour and increasing it will cut into the already limited pod space while the excessive crits prevent using endo steel.
The most effective Executioners I have built cut the HS back to 15 internal, installs ES, pods the JJs, and increase armour to 28x.
In addition to that I have played with endo composite, XL gyros, small cockpits, and CLPS. XXL, IJJs, and composite structure aren't worth the effort. Too hot, too big, and too soft respectively.
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Oh god, now you have me thinking about making a stealthy Executioner. The Clans can make both Chameleon and Null Sig so you could definitely throw both of them onto an Executioner II if you wanted to be really evil. You could not fit Endo or Ferro with all the stealth crits and maxing the engine DHS is critical with the stealth heat burden, but you can certainly push the armor up to max and pod the jets to make people cry when you bring that monster to the board.
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That's the attraction of Chameleon. Some stealth. Not crushingly hot. And you keep you light weight FF. Though in testing I feel it forces the loss of too much fire power. I need to play it more.
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That's the attraction of Chameleon. Some stealth. Not crushingly hot. And you keep you light weight FF. Though in testing I feel it forces the loss of too much fire power. I need to play it more.
While that is an issue, you will have plenty of DHS in the engine so you have room for a heavy energy weapon like an ERPPC or ERLL, and Gauss Rifles are always a good way to add firepower when you cannot afford more DHS so you should be fine. Yes the firepower will not be as good as it could be without the stealth, but I was able to get two rifles and an ERLL with Null Sig and Chameleon which is plenty as far as I am concerned. After all, that is two headcappers and 40 points of total long range damage on a unit that inflicts an additional +4 mod on the enemy's return fire making their shots basically hopeless.
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I assume that you dropped the JJs?
If you are running NS and CLPS you may as well go Stealth Armour. That 16 points of heat stings. Wulfen provides a precedent.
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I assume that you dropped the JJs?
Yeah, I wanted to keep them but I thought the firepower was more important given how far from the enemy it wants to be.
If you are running NS and CLPS you may as well go Stealth Armour. That 16 points of heat stings. Wulfen provides a precedent.
That costs you half your bonus though, and part of my goal with this was to make it really sneaky both for moving around undetected and for the glory of a combined +8 to hit at long range before factoring in movement and terrain.
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Personally I like CLPS better than Stealth Armor. Its downsides are less brutal. After re-reading the original fluff for the Phantom that suggested it had a CLPS type system and ginning up an alt version of the omni that has it, I like the way it works along side the stealth armored wulfen. I could see it fitting well on the Executioner too.
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speaking of podding the JJs (slightly off-topic here), anyone find it kinda weird that JJs are poddable at all?
they just kinda seem like the type of thing that would need to be integrated into the frame to work properly
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Yeah, that thought had occurred to me before. But I don't write the rules.
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speaking of podding the JJs (slightly off-topic here), anyone find it kinda weird that JJs are poddable at all?
they just kinda seem like the type of thing that would need to be integrated into the frame to work properly
It does seem off. Plug-and-Play weapons I can believe since the mech is (probably) going to be armed anyway. You build the sockets for energy weapons or the ammo belts for ballistics since the mech is definitely going to have guns of some kind.
Jump jets seem like something that would need a lot of dedicated internal infrastructure in addition to the exhaust ports.
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In reality I guess that any 'leg mounted' JJ's would be more likely placed on a mechs shoulders and back like we see with the art of the more recent Phoenix Hawk IIC's and the like. And that podding of JJ's would probably be a rather rarely done thing because its probably a overly complicated job to fit them, not one that could be done quickly.
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speaking of podding the JJs (slightly off-topic here), anyone find it kinda weird that JJs are poddable at all?
they just kinda seem like the type of thing that would need to be integrated into the frame to work properly
If an Omnimech can handle the recoil of a pod mounted Gauss Rifle or Ultra AC/20, they could probably handle the stresses of a pod mounted jump jet. However I think that some sort of advantage should be given to fixed jump jets versus podded jump jets, in that fixed jump jets give you -1 in skill rolls, while podded ones don't give you an advantage, or maybe even give you a +1 disadvantage if the podded jump jet weighs more than 1 ton etc.
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TW describes JJs as functionally similar to aerospace thrusters.
From P179
which superheats a lot more hydrogen like the combat drives of DropShips. Or BattleMech jump jets for that matter.
Basically JJs are piped into the fusion reactor.
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speaking of podding the JJs (slightly off-topic here), anyone find it kinda weird that JJs are poddable at all?
they just kinda seem like the type of thing that would need to be integrated into the frame to work properly
Yeah, I am very much with you on this, and I always got the feeling that some very early drafts of the omni rules did lock jets to the base chassis based on the designs in TRO 3050. It also would have given us another nice lever to play with for differentiating omnis because as is the decision is basically "what ground speed do you want" and "do I want MASC" with a few more minor additions like specialty armors added in later unless you do something stupid (hello Hellbringer #P).
TW describes JJs as functionally similar to aerospace thrusters.
From P179
Basically JJs are piped into the fusion reactor.
That makes sense from a design perspective, but it really makes me wonder how the frack they manage to pod mount those jets if it requires that kind of access to the reactor.
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"BOB!"
"yeah?"
"when your done connecting the rest of the weapons, can you attach the Jump jets"
"But its pod mounted!"
i'm assuming it would be no more difficult than attaching any other pods, but would lead to some great discussions and rants from techs ;D
i'm basically saying its no more far fetched than anything else that happens, so like Santa i just believe in the magic O0
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it kind of presupposes that there are ducts leading from the engine to a port on the outside of the 'Mech, already built-in, in the event they pod mount jump jets
really thinking about it now, I really think there needs to be some kind of downside to pod mounted JJs, otherwise, what advantage is there to fixed JJs on an Omni? why does any OmniMech have fixed JJs?
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I never really cared for the Executioner. Faced too many of them in Mw4: Mercenaries and hated every minute of their quad PPC and Gauss spam. When I discovered their was more than MW4 for mechs I discovered the mech a bit underwhelming. Yeah sure 80kph isn't bad and neither is Vlads variant. I see it's usefulness but to me I'm just not a fan.
Now a Mark II would hopefully be redesigned like the Hel, remove the Jump Jets move crits around and free up pod space: lots of it.
Just my two cents finally
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it kind of presupposes that there are ducts leading from the engine to a port on the outside of the 'Mech, already built-in, in the event they pod mount jump jets
really thinking about it now, I really think there needs to be some kind of downside to pod mounted JJs, otherwise, what advantage is there to fixed JJs on an Omni? why does any OmniMech have fixed JJs?
Because ... DFA
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I never really cared for the Executioner. Faced too many of them in Mw4: Mercenaries and hated every minute of their quad PPC and Gauss spam. When I discovered their was more than MW4 for mechs I discovered the mech a bit underwhelming. Yeah sure 80kph isn't bad and neither is Vlads variant. I see it's usefulness but to me I'm just not a fan.
Now a Mark II would hopefully be redesigned like the Hel, remove the Jump Jets move crits around and free up pod space: lots of it.
Just my two cents finally
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Blood_Asp (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Blood_Asp)
Sounds like you want a Blood Asp or a Warhawk?
In the firepower/mobility/protection triangle Executioners are all about protection and mobility. The protection and mobility allow you to place the reduced firepower more specifically.
A Blood Asp or a Warhawk offer a more balanced package with similar protection but reduced mobility and increased firepower.
I think what most people tend to find with the Executioner is that it is more fun to play. The more traditional 'Mechs tend to favour grinding tactics. The Executioner can misposition most assaults then take them apart. It is a higher risk, more exciting style of play. Believe me, when you lose those jump jets you miss the ability to just get out of trouble.
It actually creates an interesting dynamic. In most toumans the fire support is in the assault 'Mech. Heavies run point and mediums flank. With CGB anything can be on point (Executioner, Thor or Storm Crow), heavies provide fire support (Mad Dog), and heavies and mediums flank (Executioner or Thor).
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http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Blood_Asp (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Blood_Asp)
Sounds like you want a Blood Asp or a Warhawk?
In the firepower/mobility/protection triangle Executioners are all about protection and mobility. The protection and mobility allow you to place the reduced firepower more specifically.
A Blood Asp or a Warhawk offer a more balanced package with similar protection but reduced mobility and increased firepower.
I think what most people tend to find with the Executioner is that it is more fun to play. The more traditional 'Mechs tend to favour grinding tactics. The Executioner can misposition most assaults then take them apart. It is a higher risk, more exciting style of play. Believe me, when you lose those jump jets you miss the ability to just get out of trouble.
It actually creates an interesting dynamic. In most toumans the fire support is in the assault 'Mech. Heavies run point and mediums flank. With CGB anything can be on point (Executioner, Thor or Storm Crow), heavies provide fire support (Mad Dog), and heavies and mediums flank (Executioner or Thor).
Yeah: I always used to use a Dire Wolf for my heaviest firepower. Playing MWO made me realize that that firepower comes at a cost: speed. I switched to a Warhawk and found that the resulting drop in firepower was worth the speed.
However, like the previous discussion, pod mounted jump jets would be excellent. That's where the Executioner II would excel in my opinion. All that pod space could be outfitted with JJ and the original armament (tweaked a bit of course), or with more firepower.
I don't know. I need to get more games in with MM and more mech moding sessions with SSW to make it even a legitimate 'I really know what I'm talking about' post lol
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A new Ghost Bear here!!
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A new Ghost Bear here!!
Welcome to the Clan. I'm always interested in asking this of people who have just found the Ghost Bears (or are new to the forums and expressing their allegiance), what drew you towards Clan Ghost Bear?
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Fur what else.
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A new Ghost Bear here!!
Welcome to the sibko Trothkin!
Fur what else.
Yes, the clawing ritual is pretty sweet 8)
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....if you survive. ;)
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....if you survive. ;)
Well its not entirely uncommon to come away from the clawing and not run into the ghost bear. They are the masters of hide and seek...unfortunately you have to be wary they don't end up being the ones seeking while you try to hide ;D
Not that other clans don't have some cool rituals, but i think ours not only takes the cake, it writes its initials in the snow...in cursive.
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Not only the Ghost Bear, but you are undertaking the ritual in arctic conditions with a bare minimum of supplies. The weather alone is enough to kill.
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I would imagine half the prestige is being nominated to partake in the Clawing in the first place.
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I would imagine half the prestige is being nominated to partake in the Clawing in the first place.
You pretty much have to have participated in the clawing to advanced to star col. and above i believe.
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For me it is the sense of family and friendship within the Clan. That they are far more measured and restrained than say almost all the others until suitably provoked. Of the Invader Clans they are definately in my mind the rational clan of the lot.
That and we get some awesome mechs!
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Because ... DFA
which is just as doable with pod mounted JJs
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which is just as doable with pod mounted JJs
Or running off a lvl3/higher cliff onto the poor sucker O:-)
If you don't have jump jets its time to get creative!!
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A quick question, I assume that in the current period (3145 ish) that the Arcas is still around and in production, its a 'second line mech' and unless the Bears have replaced it with one of the many flavours of Ursii, Ursusususses I don't think it would be replaced even if it did start production 84 years ago now.
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Given the prominence of the Arcas in the RasDom 3145 RAT, if the Arcas isn't in production, then there must be a significant stockpile of them.
Yes, I have returned, by the way. I recently developed a metal crack addiction that has drawn me back here.
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What GBS said! Welcome back Trothkin!
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Thanks, Foxx.
On the topic of the Arcas, I just put mine together yesterday. I purchased it from Iron Wind while it was on Archive Special Return and since its only three pieces, I chose it as one of my first units to put together. I won't post a pic, since it's just bare metal, but I'm pretty pleased with it.
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Yesterday, I revisited an idea for a fun combined arms force that I had over a year ago, right after the 3145 TROs were released. It was an idea for a Watch Crisis Response Team designed to handle primarily domestic threats. Below is a roster that I'm looking at, thinking about how cool it would be to put it on the table and see my opponent's face.
Crisis Alpha
5 Constable Pacification Suits
5 Constable Pacification Suits
Ursus 3
Ursus 3
2 Tyr Infantry Support Tanks
Crisis Beta
Clan Assault Infantry (20 Heavy Infantry)
Clan Assault Infantry (20 Heavy Infantry)
2 APCs
2 Donar Assault Helicopters
2 LRM Carriers
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Thanks, Foxx.
On the topic of the Arcas, I just put mine together yesterday. I purchased it from Iron Wind while it was on Archive Special Return and since its only three pieces, I chose it as one of my first units to put together. I won't post a pic, since it's just bare metal, but I'm pretty pleased with it.
O0
good to see you back dude, be sure to post up pics when you get'er painted up :)
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Welcome back and thank you for the updates about the Arcas, I don't know what the Dominions RAT is for 3145 but I would assume that the Arcas is as common as muck which is a good thing considering how potent a machine it is.
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long time fan of CGB, first time poster on this thread. Love how the Ghost bears where smart enough to integrate there spheroid population.
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Thank you both.
O0
good to see you back dude, be sure to post up pics when you get'er painted up :)
Don't hold your breath on that one. I'm even more inexperienced with paint than I am with glue.
Welcome back and thank you for the updates about the Arcas, I don't know what the Dominions RAT is for 3145 but I would assume that the Arcas is as common as muck which is a good thing considering how potent a machine it is.
I agree that it is both common and effective, but it's not one of my favourite units because I prefer Standard Fusion Engines in my Second Line 'mechs to keep the costs down.
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Short question: Ghost Bear Warriors use the standard daggerstar as rank insignia? Or is it the Point Commander's insignia just without the golden bar?
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Short question: Ghost Bear Warriors use the standard daggerstar as rank insignia? Or is it the Point Commander's insignia just without the golden bar?
Pre-Jihad (and more importantly pre-Rasalhague Dominion), all Ghost Bear rank insignias were derived from the insignia of the Khans, a stylized bear's head in gold. The further away in rank you get from the Khan the less one's insignia resembles that of the Khan's. For example, the Galaxy Commander's insignia is simply the Khan's split in two while a point commander's insignia is simply a gold bar with ear-like protrusions at the top.
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Thanks, but I know the entry from Field Manual: Warden Clans. This entry does not answer my question.
BTW: I think it does not matter wether pre-Rasalhague Dominion or not, the clans rank insignias should be the same.
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That and we get some awesome mechs!
That is the one thing I can not say if I believe is a curse or a blessing.
Our Mech selections through the various years.
What I mean by that is check the RATs from the books.
I go through the Jihad stuff, most of my 3050 force is still solid enough to play.
My friends' forces, they adjust with the new tech and new losses to chassis.
Wars of Reaving? Similar things based on the fluff I read.
3085? Similar results.
Freaking 3145 and we still have Warhawks, Dragonflys, Pumas, etc while nearly most of the other Clans go to other chassis due to...reasons.
I am glad that I did not have to purchase too many minis for my forces to stand the test of time. 8)
Then again, I sometimes wonder how those new toys feel. :-\
Oh well, that is why we have Trials of Possession and raids! >:D
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Thank you both.
Don't hold your breath on that one. I'm even more inexperienced with paint than I am with glue.
only one way to get better, practice practice practice O0
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Thanks, but I know the entry from Field Manual: Warden Clans. This entry does not answer my question.
It answered the general question asked which apparently was not the specific question you had in mind when you posted it. If you are looking for a more specific answer then you need to ask a more specific question.
BTW: I think it does not matter wether pre-Rasalhague Dominion or not, the clans rank insignias should be the same.
One can infer from the Ghost Bear Khan Dalia Bekker's image in ER3145 (p108) that the insignia has remained more or less the same since the GBD-FRR merger.
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That is the one thing I can not say if I believe is a curse or a blessing.
Our Mech selections through the various years.
What I mean by that is check the RATs from the books.
I go through the Jihad stuff, most of my 3050 force is still solid enough to play.
My friends' forces, they adjust with the new tech and new losses to chassis.
Wars of Reaving? Similar things based on the fluff I read.
3085? Similar results.
Freaking 3145 and we still have Warhawks, Dragonflys, Pumas, etc while nearly most of the other Clans go to other chassis due to...reasons.
I am glad that I did not have to purchase too many minis for my forces to stand the test of time. 8)
Then again, I sometimes wonder how those new toys feel. :-\
Oh well, that is why we have Trials of Possession and raids! >:D
Hey!
We get Mad Dog IIIs and Mad Dog IVs now! O0
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It answered the general question asked which apparently was not the specific question you had in mind when you posted it. If you are looking for a more specific answer then you need to ask a more specific question.
Indeed. Maybe my horrible English is to blame for this misunderstanding. I wasn't asking for all the rank insignias of the warrior caste in general, but for the rank of warrior in particular. The Field Manual depicts all rank devices from point commander to khan, but omits the rank of warrior. The entry cited above does not describe the device either. But in the first few pages it is mentioned, that warriors display a daggerstar, insinuating that this may be the case if there's no clan-specific device. I just wanted to know, if this is the case for Ghost Bear warriors (rank, not caste members in general) or if there are other sources implementing otherwise.
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No, it's not just you. The rank of Mechwarrior isn't explicitly addressed at all in that passage.
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Indeed. Maybe my horrible English is to blame for this misunderstanding. I wasn't asking for all the rank insignias of the warrior caste in general, but for the rank of warrior in particular. The Field Manual depicts all rank devices from point commander to khan, but omits the rank of warrior. The entry cited above does not describe the device either. But in the first few pages it is mentioned, that warriors display a daggerstar, insinuating that this may be the case if there's no clan-specific device. I just wanted to know, if this is the case for Ghost Bear warriors (rank, not caste members in general) or if there are other sources implementing otherwise.
Nope, the Crusader Clan and Warden Clan field manuals are the most recent publication to address that specific issue. No other publication released since then has gone into such detail regarding rank insignia.
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All MW have the rank of Point Commander: that is their particular rank insignia. The dagger star is an indication that they are a MW, Elemental, or Aerospace pilot depending I the coloring. Ranna Kerensky describes the various insignias in the Blood of Kerensky Trilogy.
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AFAIK, cadets who pass their trial of position (blooding) become full members of the warrior caste. Non-MechWarriors, like Elementals, may receive the rank of warrior if they haven't passed their ToP with more then one kill. If their clan does not use a specific rank insignia for this rank, their daggerstar (colored differently for each branch) serves as rank insignia.
MechWarriors retain a special role, since technically their only warriors (rank) but since they're the sole members of their point, they're de facto point commanders. Are you sure MechWarriors of Clan Ghost Bear are instantly promoted to point commander upon passing their ToP?
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Are you sure MechWarriors of Clan Ghost Bear are instantly promoted to point commander upon passing their ToP?
They aren't instantly promoted to point commander. Its simply the fact that they comprise an entire point that for all intents and purposes they are the point commander. As stated in both FM:WC and FM:CC: "By the strictest definition, a MechWarrior is equal to a Point Command and to any individual Elemental or aerospace pilot."
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Well, that's simply a repetition of what I posted before and no answer.
AFAIK, the rank of warrior is for all warrior caste members below the rank of point commander. Like an elemental or a pilot, who does not command his or her point. It is a contradiction to state that Mechwarriors equal both point commanders and individual elementals or ASF pilots. That would be like saying a soldier equals his fellow private and lieutenant in rank.
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Well, that's simply a repetition of what I posted before and no answer.
AFAIK, the rank of warrior is for all warrior caste members below the rank of point commander. Like an elemental or a pilot, who does not command his or her point. It is a contradiction to state that Mechwarriors equal both point commanders and individual elementals or ASF pilots. That would be like saying a soldier equals his fellow private and lieutenant in rank.
Well it be corporal or sergeant not lieutenant. What they are saying is that since the MechWarrior branch doesn't have a rank lower than sergeant, a MechWarrior's position and duties encompasses both and therefore is equivalent to the elemental point commander and the elements he/she commands. It might be more clear if one said that the MechWarrior (point commander) is the Elemental point commander and his subordinate Elemental rolled into one. While he may have the rank of point commander, his official command authority only extends to himself like an Elemental.
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Hey there guys, I've got a question on whether or not the Bears actually fielded a "Gamma Galaxy" sometime in their past. I could have sworn I read somewhere that the Bears used to field a Gamma Galaxy, which they used to take the Tokasha Mechworks from Clan Hell's Horses, but later disbanded after the the trial due to combat losses. Did I just imagine this, or was there actually a source somewhere (if so please tell me the book) regarding the Tokasha Mechworks battle, but with a different Galaxy involved?
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Sorry but I don't recall ever seeing anything indicating the Ghost Bears ever fielded a Gamma Galaxy or that it participated during the fighting on Tokasha. Considering how invaluable the Tokasha MechWorks was to the Hell's Horses I can't think of any reason why Kilbourne Jorgensson wouldn't deploy his premiere Galaxy.
I believe you may be confusing the Ghost Bears with the Hell's Horses' Gamma Galaxy. Their Gamma Galaxy was formed in 3046 just before the Ghost Bear assault on Niles and, after the battle, found itself stripped of warriors to replace the losses suffered by Alpha Galaxy. As the most junior frontline galaxy, Gamma was the first to be stripped of warriors whenever Alpha or Beta Galaxies suffered losses.
As part of their dealings with Clan Wolf, Vlad Ward gave the Hell's Horses some Inner Sphere worlds bordering the Ghost Bear OZ. Gamma Galaxy was assigned to defend those worlds. When the First Combine-Dominion War broke out, Vlad Ward convinced Khan Malavai Fletcher to invade the Ghost Bear Dominion while the Ghost Bears were focused on the Combine. Unfortunately, the Ghost Bears and the Combine quickly negotiated a peace settlement and the returning Ghost Bears tore through the Hell's Horses' forces forcing the Hell's Horses to withdraw entirely from the Inner Sphere. Gamma Galaxy was disbanded to fill losses suffered by Alpha and Beta Galaxies with the remainder assigned to form the core of the newly formed Kappa Galaxy.
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I believe you may be confusing the Ghost Bears with the Hell's Horses' Gamma Galaxy. Their Gamma Galaxy was formed in 3046 just before the Ghost Bear assault on Niles and, after the battle, found itself stripped of warriors to replace the losses suffered by Alpha Galaxy. As the most junior frontline galaxy, Gamma was the first to be stripped of warriors whenever Alpha or Beta Galaxies suffered losses.
Thanks for that, I think that must have been what I read. Do you remember which book was that in so I could reaquaint myself with the situation? I just vaguely remember that the Bears and Horses used to fight Galaxy on Galaxy battles and the last one they fought was just before Operation Revival.
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Thanks for that, I think that must have been what I read. Do you remember which book was that in so I could reaquaint myself with the situation? I just vaguely remember that the Bears and Horses used to fight Galaxy on Galaxy battles and the last one they fought was just before Operation Revival.
As far as I am aware FM: CC and FM:WC are the only books that provide any details on either of the two Ghost Bear-Hell's Horses battles on Tokasha and Niles (where galaxy sized forces met in combat). HH Gamma Galaxy's pre-Inner Sphere details are also available. FM:U provides details on Gamma Galaxy's Inner Sphere misadventures.
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I would like to take a moment to mention that Friday, February 27, is in fact International Polar Bear Day according to my wall calendar. I think you guys know what to do.
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I'll volunteer my dropship to pick the Bears up if they want to celebrate Polar Bear Day in Great Lakes style. The ice is not quite two feet thick, so it can be poked through easily with a small laser, I'm thinking. Then swim time. ;D
Only because some people around here are crazy enough to do that every year. And I would love to sick the Ghost Bears on them, it would be lulzy.
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I would like to take a moment to mention that Friday, February 27, is in fact International Polar Bear Day according to my wall calendar. I think you guys know what to do.
(http://cdn.gifbay.com/2013/10/bears_bears_bears_bears_bears_bears_bears_bears_bears_bears_bears_bears-91664.gif)
Sure its not Polar Bears but still, bears.
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Feb 27th Polar Bear day? Need to start marking my calendars!
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(http://cdn.gifbay.com/2013/10/bears_bears_bears_bears_bears_bears_bears_bears_bears_bears_bears_bears-91664.gif)
Sure its not Polar Bears but still, bears.
This is even funnier if you imagine they're dancing to "WHAT IS LOVE? BABY DON'T HURT ME!"
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Silly SharkFox, thats the ghostbear version of a rick roll ;)
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Silly SharkFox, thats the ghostbear version of a rick roll ;)
You haven't truly rick rolled someone until you've done it via Microsoft Word.
Actually, my friends topped that when they did it via Christmas Carol, but that's another story.
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You haven't truly rick rolled someone until you've done it via Microsoft Word.
Actually, my friends topped that when they did it via Christmas Carol, but that's another story.
You haven't rick rolled until you swarm someone with battle armor while singing "Never gonna give you up! never gonna let you go!" ;D
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Last year one of the local radio stations got Rick to let someone down.
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This is even funnier if you imagine they're dancing to "WHAT IS LOVE? BABY DON'T HURT ME!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sASfLQm9iCc
here we go, the real version :p
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sASfLQm9iCc
here we go, the real version :p
You know what? I like that idea better. LEAVE IT IN!
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You haven't rick rolled until you swarm someone with battle armor while singing "Never gonna give you up! never gonna let you go!" ;D
Damn you, Rick Astley! ;)
I know picture eighties pop tunes as the main music for Ghost Bear Elemental battlefield mayhem. And it's %@$#^! classic!
Here's some Ghost Bear Billy Ocean: Oohhh (ooohh!) I'm gonna touch you (gonna touch you!) And do the things that lovers do!
Ooohh! (Oooohh!) I'm gonna hold ya (gonna hold ya!) I've gotta get it through to you...
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Don't tell me I disturbed the Ghost Bears into silence! ;D
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Don't tell me I disturbed the Ghost Bears into silence! ;D
bahhh we have no response to those coments, which is why there are no coments
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Don't tell me I disturbed the Ghost Bears into silence! ;D
It's not silence, it's hibernation ;)
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Must be. If you poke the bear and it just snarls, consider it a lucky day. ;D
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O:-) We just want to lull you into a false sense of security...so we may attack you with musical numbers ;D Think Macross 7 >:D
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O:-) We just want to lull you into a false sense of security...so we may attack you with musical numbers ;D Think Macross 7 >:D
Noooooooooooooo! Disturbed once had lyrics about using music as a weapon, but I don't think that's how they meant it.
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If the Bears had anything playing whilst attacking someone it would either be Sabaton or ManoWar. BIG 80s hair metal! (This of course includes the music from the animated Transformers movie naturally).
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(This of course includes the music from the animated Transformers movie naturally).
Any army that doesn't include that in its playlist is terrible and clearly destined for failure.
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Any army that doesn't include that in its playlist is terrible and clearly destined for failure.
Great now you've got me thinking about what the Clan's playlists were..
The Jags would have been INCREDIBLY ANGRY growly Norse/Finnish death metal full of grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrowling.
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I could see the Valkyrie clusters rocking out to "Dynamite Explosion"
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Any army that doesn't include that in its playlist is terrible and clearly destined for failure.
Thinking like this surely led to Toto doing the soundtrack for Lynch's version of Dune. To this day while watching that movie (on the rare occasion), every time I hear the classic "foreboding" metal guitar droning F sharp to E shift (or the battle time diddy in G), I say out loud "#^$%#* Toto!".
Too bad Iron Maiden couldn't have done the soundtrack to that.
This post had a point, but it's not very Ghost Bearly. We're drifting...Oh yeah! Toto would be a terrible name for a Ghost Bear, were Ghost Bears real animals. That ties it in kind of.
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I played battletech before the clans appeared, when they appeared I liked them and I felt specially attracted to the Ghost Bears even though they were the less developed invading clan those days
Welcome to the Clan. I'm always interested in asking this of people who have just found the Ghost Bears (or are new to the forums and expressing their allegiance), what drew you towards Clan Ghost Bear?
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welcome trothkin :)
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Aye welcome to the Den trothkin!
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Alright ladies and gentlebears, I need a new galaxy.
I just finished up on my Alpha star this weekend. I have a handful of extra omnis sitting around, but most of my spare mechs are definitely second-line equipment (think Supernova, Ursus, Grizzly, Kodiak, Piranha). The era I am aiming for is somewhere around Late-Invasion/Early-Civil War. Right now, I have narrowed the options down to either Theta, or Tau. Theta has the advantage of being really different from the blue/grey of Alpha, but has the disadvantage of being primarily white. Tau has the advantage of not being primarily white, but has the disadvantage of looking an awful lot like Alpha (blue/grey camo on the arms and legs). Tau also has the advantage of being relatively well-liked by the citizens of the OZ, so... that's something, too. Some general arctic camo is also an option, I suppose, but may or may not look a lot like the Alpha Galaxy scheme AND require a lot of white paint.
Anyway, suggestions are very welcome. These won't get painted until I finish with the rest of my Spheroid lances, but I like taking a long time to plan out supplies and such.
Cheers!
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Alright ladies and gentlebears, I need a new galaxy.
I just finished up on my Alpha star this weekend. I have a handful of extra omnis sitting around, but most of my spare mechs are definitely second-line equipment (think Supernova, Ursus, Grizzly, Kodiak, Piranha). The era I am aiming for is somewhere around Late-Invasion/Early-Civil War. Right now, I have narrowed the options down to either Theta, or Tau. Theta has the advantage of being really different from the blue/grey of Alpha, but has the disadvantage of being primarily white. Tau has the advantage of not being primarily white, but has the disadvantage of looking an awful lot like Alpha (blue/grey camo on the arms and legs). Tau also has the advantage of being relatively well-liked by the citizens of the OZ, so... that's something, too. Some general arctic camo is also an option, I suppose, but may or may not look a lot like the Alpha Galaxy scheme AND require a lot of white paint.
Anyway, suggestions are very welcome. These won't get painted until I finish with the rest of my Spheroid lances, but I like taking a long time to plan out supplies and such.
Cheers!
If you're looking at Tau Galaxy, your available `Mechs may be a good fit for the 1st Bear Regulars in that time frame.
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Actually, the 1st Regulars were exactly who I had in mind if I opted for Tau Galaxy. I suppose I could use a different shade of grey for the camo on the arms and legs to keep the scheme from looking too similar to Alpha.
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The top three Clans in 3050 were the Wolves, Falcons, and Jaguars. The Bear's position as an Invader was due to its willingness to bid low where Clans like the Adders refused to play at all.
Honestly I don't know who would be second tier other than the Bears and Vipers. Eg I am not sure that the Adders belong because their big boost seems to coincide with absorbing the Burrocks.
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hey Jell, think you posted that response in the wrong thread? looks more like it was responding to Weaponx in the Clan Builder thread (though maybe you two might want to bring it here to not derail that one)
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The top three Clans in 3050 were the Wolves, Falcons, and Jaguars. The Bear's position as an Invader was due to its willingness to bid low where Clans like the Adders refused to play at all.
My opinion is that anyone who made it to the Invasion, even the "reserve Clans" belong to the "first-tier" of the Clans, granted the Bears may be in the lower end of "first-tiers" if you compare them to the "top three", but if you expand it to "top-four", you'd definately have to include the Bears in there.
Honestly I don't know who would be second tier other than the Bears and Vipers. Eg I am not sure that the Adders belong because their big boost seems to coincide with absorbing the Burrocks.
There's the problem, how many "tiers" are there? And how many Clans to a tier? As I said previously I believe that anyone who made it to the Invasion (even the reservists) deserve to be called first-tier Clans. The Bears may have gotten in by bidding low, but that's also how the Falcons and Jaguars got their place. The fact that even while bidding so low those Clans still managed to carve out as sizable chunk of the Inner Sphere shows that they had something to back up their low bid. If you put someone who wasn't already a reserve Invasion Clan like say the Cloud Cobras or Blood Spirits in place of the Bears, I don't think they'd have done as well. Even if you put the Adders in their place, I don't think they'd have done as well, since I think that the Adders were the epitome of a second-tier Clan up until the big boys went away and gave them some room to grow into a low end first-tier Clan similar to the Bears, and that was only really possible because of the almost neat absorption of Clan Burrock, which was itself a pretty strong second-tier Clan as well.
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If you put someone who wasn't already a reserve Invasion Clan like say the Cloud Cobras or Blood Spirits in place of the Bears, I don't think they'd have done as well.
well let's be honest, have a different Clan in place of the Bears, they would have done the same performance to meet the requirements of the story ;)
but more seriously, while having "tiers" of Clans is a fairly arbitrary thing, i never pegged the Bears as being in the same class as the Wolves, Falcons and Jags
what they had going for them was having a large touman and their cautious approach, rather than highly skilled warriors, allowed them to usually be successful in combat
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Nobody blackmails the ghostbears!!!!! ....we didn't need iC3 anyway ;D
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Nobody blackmails the ghostbears!!!!! ....we didn't need iC3 anyway ;D
*pounds his fist against the table yelling an agreement before making sure the Freeborns get as much of it as possible and are told 'go nuts'*
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Nobody blackmails the ghostbears!!!!! ....we didn't need iC3 anyway ;D
The only tragedy to come from the whole Beowulf IIC-PR experiment was not what the Bears did with it, since under Clan customs and traditions its perfectly OK to wipe out dark caste members in the most efficient way possible, but that the Bears caved to outside pressure and gave up their forays into incorporating C3i's into their way of fighting. The Bears might still be capable of building the tech, but they'd have lost years of potential experience on the best way to properly utilize C3i's in the event that they ever brought it back into their equipment list at a later date.
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Nobody blackmails the ghostbears!!!!! ....we didn't need iC3 anyway ;D
C3i, isn't that where our Elementals just hold the enemy Mech while ours pounds it into the ground?
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C3i, isn't that where our Elementals just hold the enemy Mech while ours pounds it into the ground?
I thought it was where Kobold IIC's tag the Surat out of someone while the huey's pound it back to the golden ages.
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I thought it was where Kobold IIC's tag the Surat out of someone while the huey's pound it back to the golden ages.
Sibkid Tested, Ghost Bear Approved.
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I thought it was where Kobold IIC's tag the Surat out of someone while the huey's pound it back to the golden ages.
The Khans see wisdom in this plan.
It is a solid plan.
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When the Republic takes away your iC3 and gives you lemons...you put stealth on stuff and squirt lemonaid in their eyes #P
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When the Republic takes away your iC3 and gives you lemons...you put stealth on stuff and squirt lemonaid in their eyes #P
and then take away better toys from someone else....
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I'm confused. What is this Beowulf IIC-PR that you speak of? Who pressured the Bears to abandon C3i research?
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I know there's an Ursus-PR that has C3i...
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Who pressured the Bears to abandon C3i research?
The Republic
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The Republic
Blasted interfering Spheroids.
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well in fairness, the game has to stay balanced somehow, yea?
C3 and C3i are one of the advantages the IS has over the Clans
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They way we spread ECM around the Record Sheets...
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They way we spread ECM around the Record Sheets...
we can't have C3 then nobody can. now onto bigger ECMS
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Yeah, it sucks that somebody held the Bears back from being genocidal baby-murdering bastards.
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then again how many FFR units are there? Nothing wrong here boys only our freeborns use c3
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then again how many FFR units are there? Nothing wrong here boys only our freeborns use c3
And only your freeborns used C3 while murdering Nova Cat civilians. You're having a hard time convincing me that the Bears were wronged here.
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The TRO did indicate that there was clan Omni's that seemed to be using the C3I system or were built to support it. No mention of who their pilots were if they were former FRR Mechwarriors or Bear Clansmen.
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And only your freeborns used C3 while murdering Nova Cat civilians. You're having a hard time convincing me that the Bears were wronged here.
Bah, its just standard practice for wiping out a Dark Caste nest. No need to even declare a Trial of Annihilation, though that's what should have been done to clear things up on why they were wiping out the Dark Caste "Nova Cat" civilians.
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Yeah, it sucks that somebody held the Bears back from being genocidal baby-murdering bastards.
Maybe they shouldn't have tried to steal our picnic basket!! ey booboo?
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Maybe they shouldn't have tried to steal our picnic basket!! ey booboo?
So does that make the republic Ranger Smith?
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Less an issue with C3 and more an issue with Omega and certain Arctic Clusters needing to have been reigned in long ago.
Really. You give a Rasalhagian advanced weaponry and tell them not to hurt the warriors of the Coordinator?
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Really. You give a Rasalhagian advanced weaponry and tell them not to hurt the warriors of the Coordinator?
That... may have been a bit optimistic, yeah.
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Less an issue with C3 and more an issue with Omega and certain Arctic Clusters needing to have been reigned in long ago.
Really. You give a Rasalhagian advanced weaponry and tell them not to hurt the warriors of the Coordinator?
It's more of the "putting civilians to the torch" thing that's the issue.
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It's more of the "putting civilians to the torch" thing that's the issue.
Maybe they shouldn't have been dark caste then? Bandits get the Frankenstein treatment O:-) Pitch forks and torches for everybody!!
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Maybe they shouldn't have been dark caste then? Bandits get the Frankenstein treatment O:-) Pitch forks and torches for everybody!!
And there's the problem right there and then. The Bears invaded a neighboring state and massacred their civilians without a single thought as to the consequences of their actions or if what they were doing was 'wrong' in any way, shape or form. This had come after decades of living in the Inner Sphere and sharing their worlds with Inner Sphere populations who tend not to like it when their allies turn out to be baby-murdering bastards. What might seem perfectly fine and fair under claw law doesn't work in the Inner Sphere, and the Bears should have been aware of that by that point. However, their leader gets a little hot under the collar and all of a sudden it's perfectly okay for them to be putting civilians to the torch for the sake of it.
The Bears have no room to complain about suffering the consequences of their actions. If anything, they weren't punished nearly enough.
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And there's the problem right there and then. The Bears invaded a neighboring state and massacred their civilians without a single thought as to the consequences of their actions or if what they were doing was 'wrong' in any way, shape or form. This had come after decades of living in the Inner Sphere and sharing their worlds with Inner Sphere populations who tend not to like it when their allies turn out to be baby-murdering bastards. What might seem perfectly fine and fair under claw law doesn't work in the Inner Sphere, and the Bears should have been aware of that by that point. However, their leader gets a little hot under the collar and all of a sudden it's perfectly okay for them to be putting civilians to the torch for the sake of it.
The Bears have no room to complain about suffering the consequences of their actions. If anything, they weren't punished nearly enough.
Thats because you run with the bear or from it! ....good luck on the running from it ;) you don't go into the bear cave and poke the bear then act surprised when it eats you,your baby and that adorable baby sitter across the street O:-) We pretty much did to them what bun bun does to telemarketers ;D
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The Bears have no room to complain about suffering the consequences of their actions. If anything, they weren't punished nearly enough.
Umm, what consequences did the Bears suffer? It's not like they "lost" the Second War. Did any of the other Clans in the Council of Six have anything to say about it, or, more importantly, did they do anything about it?
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the council of six is a joke. There isn't anything they could have done really. Even when they do pass measures to censure another clan it gets ignored.
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the council of six is a joke. There isn't anything they could have done really. Even when they do pass measures to censure another clan it gets ignored.
Exactly. It would take a massive coordinated series of operations from multiple nations (who do not get along at all) for the Bears to be "properly punished" for anything, ever.
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I wouldn't say there were no consequences, because the Bears basically lost their dominance within the Dominion as a result: the Elected-Prince was placed above the Khan in the government hierarchy, and the Unity Council was changed to include equal numbers of trueborn warriors, freeborn warriors and civilians (the Council also gained the ability to override both the Khan and Elected-Prince). So the ability of the Bears to exert control over the policy of the RasDom post-war was severely constrained. I don't think it's a coincidence that there hasn't really been a major war instigated by the Bears since then. Even the stuff with the Vega Protectorate was peacekeeping operations on war-torn and functionally abandoned worlds, rather than the traditional "Rarg! Me conquer!" stuff the Clans are usually up to.
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I wouldn't say there were no consequences, because the Bears basically lost their dominance within the Dominion as a result: the Elected-Prince was placed above the Khan in the government hierarchy, and the Unity Council was changed to include equal numbers of trueborn warriors, freeborn warriors and civilians (the Council also gained the ability to override both the Khan and Elected-Prince). So the ability of the Bears to exert control over the policy of the RasDom post-war was severely constrained. I don't think it's a coincidence that there hasn't really been a major war instigated by the Bears since then. Even the stuff with the Vega Protectorate was peacekeeping operations on war-torn and functionally abandoned worlds, rather than the traditional "Rarg! Me conquer!" stuff the Clans are usually up to.
I chalk it up to the bears pretty much always sleeping untill they're poked...at which point you get a very big over reaction.
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I chalk it up to the bears pretty much always sleeping untill they're poked...at which point you get a very big over reaction.
I agree.
I will add the caveat that the Falcons have been poking the Bears a bit much of late, as described in FM 3145. I'm hoping for some kind of massive counter-reaction to hit the Jade Falcons in the next storyline extension, because Malvin Hazen has burned through everyone's patience with her antics by now.
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I'd say the Bears will go across the border against the Falcons eventually, but ONLY if they are poked first. The Dominion did not launch attacks against the Draconis combine until they were hit first and then when they hit back it was a HUGE escalation, not a tit for tat IS style 'war' where a planet or two changes hands but *WILD GHOST BEAR GALAXIES APPEAR*
I think if Mad Malvina pokes the Bears or tries to provoke them or does a Mongol attack on them then the Bears will hit back and hit back HARD which will make the Falcons hit back just as hard. If they go to war it will be bloody as all hell. But they are not really ones to pre-emptively hit.
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Exactly. It would take a massive coordinated series of operations from multiple nations (who do not get along at all) for the Bears to be "properly punished" for anything, ever.
I would say the DCMS could do it but they are a touch busy with the Davions at the moment so can't really do anything.
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I'm hoping for some kind of massive counter-reaction to hit the Jade Falcons in the next storyline extension, because Malvin Hazen has burned through everyone's patience with her antics by now.
By the Founders that's going to be funny.
Malvina poking at the Bears, they respond, and the Horses pull away from the Mongol Doctrine and hole up.
With the Dracs looking at their metaphorical watches replying, "Oh look at the time gotta go!"
All while the ghost of Beckett Malthus screaming at Hazen, "We have no nice things quiaff? THIS is one of the reasons why surat!"
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Maybe they shouldn't have been dark caste then? Bandits get the Frankenstein treatment O:-) Pitch forks and torches for everybody!!
Yep Dark Caste. That's why the Bears were PO'ed that the Nova Cat Rangers refused heigra to the remaining Third Bear Guard forces on Halesowen. You just assume Dark Caste are going to accept that offer and behave under typical Clan codes of conduct. Yep, Bears totally worked under the idea that all Nova Cats were Dark Caste.
And that raid was the only one that occurred on either side of the border at that time, obviously.
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Omega was conceived as a kind of Knights of the Sphere. Using IS tactics with Clan honour. A narrow path to tread.
While the original Omega could stick to the path, the rapid turnover of troops during the Jihad diluted the pool of senior Warriors removing the honour and leaving the IS tactics. IS tactics most recently learned during the Jihad.
Omega has been a problem ever since. All Clan Warriors will commit genocide if it is part of the rules of engagement. Omega's rules of engagement are use the other side's tactics, and those tactics can be pretty brutal. Remember drawing Clan 'Mechs into close quarter city fights? So after a WoB education where regular Bear units were killing everybody anyway do you think Omega would have blinked at killing civilians to get the job done?
Without the honour Omega was just an accident waiting to happen and remains that way in 3145. Just a different sort of accident by then.
As for the Rasalhagians. 300 years of brutal suppression tends to leave a grudge. Sew the wind, reap the whirlwind etc. Shame it was the Nova Cats that got in the road.
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By the Founders that's going to be funny.
Malvina poking at the Bears, they respond, and the Horses pull away from the Mongol Doctrine and hole up.
With the Dracs looking at their metaphorical watches replying, "Oh look at the time gotta go!"
All while the ghost of Beckett Malthus screaming at Hazen, "We have no nice things quiaff? THIS is one of the reasons why surat!"
I mean the Bears have been sparing a bit with the Horses and their Mongol style units: and the battles have gone even really based on the combination of the units involved. However, if Malvina does do something stupid to the Bears the bears will respond in kind.
ALPHA, BETA, RHO, RASALHAGUE, TUNDRA, OMEGA, and the RASALHAGUE (With appropriate Valkyrie Clusters added).
Some combination of those Galaxies will burn hard for Falcon space and say to the Horses... "I dare you".
Corse this means a shift of the rest of their Touman north and east ward on the galactic plane, and that means their left with half their Galaxies in their own territory which might not end well. So I'm hoping the Horses help the Bears in this case.
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Omega was conceived as a kind of Knights of the Sphere. Using IS tactics with Clan honour. A narrow path to tread.
While the original Omega could stick to the path, the rapid turnover of troops during the Jihad diluted the pool of senior Warriors removing the honour and leaving the IS tactics. IS tactics most recently learned during the Jihad.
That explains why I tend to like Omega.
I mean I knew they used Spheroid tactics, but I didn't realize how dark they could get until well after the Jihad writings.
That's when I realized "Well geez I went Clan Sith Galaxy."
So I'm hoping the Horses help the Bears in this case.
I hope so too. Compared to Hazen, the Bear do have their dark spots (Omega and Aletha Kabrinski).
The difference being at the moment they are under control, once again compared to "Blood for the Blood God" Hazen.
Poor Horses are in a bit of a situation, back the wrong one and they are the next Smoke Jag or Nova Cat story.
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so are we taking bets on the falcons or horses getting smoked?
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My money is on Falcons, they've had it coming a looooooong time.
If it weren't for the Jags, I think they would have died in the late 60's.
Horses then rise to be a new prominent faction somehow.
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Yep Dark Caste. That's why the Bears were PO'ed that the Nova Cat Rangers refused heigra to the remaining Third Bear Guard forces on Halesowen. You just assume Dark Caste are going to accept that offer and behave under typical Clan codes of conduct. Yep, Bears totally worked under the idea that all Nova Cats were Dark Caste.
While there might have been some doubt as to whether the Nova Cats were Dark Caste or not, the Nova Cat Rangers refusal for Hegira and massacaring the trapped Bear forces simply because they wanted additional salvage only served to prove that the Cats really were Dark Caste and so should be treated as such from that point onwards. IMO if the Cats had acted with honor regardless of some percieved dishonor the Bears gave them, that would have come a long way in shifting the Bears opinion of them towards a more positive note and perhaps even helped in normalizing relations between the two. But no, the Cats had to go for the tit for tat game, and the Bears don't just go tit for tat, they go tit for TAT!!!, or in other words, if you come at them with fists they will come at you with a knife, if with a knife they will come at you with a gun and so on.
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The ghost Bears are the kind of clan that when they feel slighted, they find out what you were afraid of as a child then choose a camo that resembles a clown or mime. Operation Sparkles the frown clown!
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Come on. Lay off the Cats.
Personally I would have done things differently. The Cats come out of this too much as victims with no influence over their fate. That serves neither the Bears, Cats, DC, or Black Dragons well.
Personally I like to think none of the sides in this conflict knew what the rules were. The Cats had been relying on the fear of a general war giving their raiding a degree of impunity. The image of a child poking a bear through a cage is to obvious to not use. The Bears got their chance to remove a long term annoyance and they took it. A modified undeclared Trial of Annihilation perhaps? I am not sure you can do a ToA in the Inner Sphere for purely practical reasons. See the loss of control from there.
You can get a nice grey multi faceted story from that with innocents caught up on both sides. Unfortunately the Historical didn't really explore that.
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I personally like the nova cats. But i love to hate hell horses ;)
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The Cats seemed to suffer from being the writers whipping boys and I felt deeply sorry for them with what happened.
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I blame the fact that the bears were "white hats" and we needed to be shown that we can play in the mud with the rest of the spheroids
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The ghost Bears are the kind of clan that when they feel slighted, they find out what you were afraid of as a child then choose a camo that resembles a clown or mime. Operation Sparkles the frown clown!
Posts like this make me wish this forum had some sort of 'like' or upvote functionality.
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The ghost Bears are the kind of clan that when they feel slighted, they find out what you were afraid of as a child then choose a camo that resembles a clown or mime. Operation Sparkles the frown clown!
I've always described this Clan with the following neighbor analogy:
"Some neighbors might resent you when you steal their morning paper.
Some might steal yours to retaliate.
Bears burn down your rose garden and think it is a fair exchange."
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Yet always seem to end up stuck on the burning thorns and unsure what to do.
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I've always described this Clan with the following neighbor analogy:
"Some neighbors might resent you when you steal their morning paper.
Some might steal yours to retaliate.
Bears burn down your rose garden and think it is a fair exchange."
A rose garden is too small, I think that they'd actually try to burn your tool shed or garage down :).
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A rose garden is too small
Well we are trying to shed that evil "Me Clan warg" stereotype after all. ;)
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Well we are trying to shed that evil "Me Clan warg" stereotype after all. ;)
*looks like hes caught with his hand in honey jar* So...does that mean i shouldn't go as captain Black BEARd for halloween?
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If you have a beard the shape of a bear, you can dress however you want.
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If you have a beard the shape of a bear, you can dress however you want.
Again, we need a "like" button.
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Arg, I use the Karhu G now to the point someone actually thought i liked heavy lasers :o ...I need a new go to heavy mech ;) But its such a great mech!! Speed! Jump jets! Enough Streaks to ruin you for weeks! Thanks to magscan i don't even need active probe in double blind games. Seriously i love the G since it came out, get behind someone and just rock them, if the streaks don't fire then you end up pretty heat neutral >:D if the streaks do hit >:D >:D >:D
When i use the Karhu G i have a hard time not going "Gigidy" "Gigidy" "GOO!!!"
An ideal star for me is at least one Karhu (G..uess the G right? ^^) one of every type of mad dog and a executioner (F..but not for Foxx ;) ) I actually had a pretty good time the other day rocking a Karhu,Executioner,Mad Dog MK4 and a Dasher2 variant 2. the Dasher was mainly to throw the person off since they never knew when it would show up behind them..Restless even taught me a nasty trick that should be illegal in most Country's. Tone down the lasers so they basically become ER small lasers and suddenly you can fire all of them while running around in mach 2 with your hair on fire.
So my fellow ghostbears, or just closet ghost bear fans, What should be my new "go to" mech since I don't wanna gain a rep for Heavy Lasers. Someone once accused me of being an AC20 nut (hilarious since i honestly don't take them that much) but really I'm more of a "Pack missiles on it and let us fight in the shade" kinda guy.
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I have been waiting about a year for that review. NTNU is full of hidden gems.
I don't normally reveal my designs but I hit a real theme with the Karhu G and Executioner I. 10 hex movement then slice and spray. The only reason the Firemoth G didn't look more like a Firemoth Prime was I couldn't carry enough weapons to slice AND spray effectively. So I recommend running it with a missile Firemoth.
Actually the whole concept is really interesting. You can see the Firemoth Prime and Executioner attempting it but 3050 tech doesn't quite work. Heck it is the rough idea of the Thug (without the speed to get behind people). 3090 tech gives you the speed and low weight weapons to pull it off.
You can thank Jymset for the Executioner F.
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seems like I hardly see Foxx taking any other config of the Karhu lately. It's getting to the point where the Karhu G is to him, what the Timber Wolf A is to me.
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Don't have the skills to do a good Karhu G write up, but i can share with my fellow ghostbears how I use it to good success!
"Hey diddle diddle, straight up the middle!" The Karhu G can run 10 hexs straight, that's AWESOME,Why? Well i typically play on maps that are 45x45 at the smallest usually. This means i can get it into position early on, got a timberwolf? big whoop wanna fight? because the Karhu is gonna get there faster,Can't run over that hill? JUMP OVER IT THEN! this beast can not only run rings around someone for that extra sneaky backshot, it can for the most part jump where ever it wants. The Arcas in your star will drool and drink its milk in hope of some day doing what the Karhu G can do.
I haven't even gotten to the weapons! 1 improved Heavy large laser,3 ER Medium pulse lasers and Four count em FOUR Streak SRM 4's. Now your thinking "meh i would rather have 6s" Trust me they more than awesome when your behind an opponent...did i mention you get can behind people easily?
You can Alpha strike (i know who would wanna do that?) and as long as your Streaks don't fire your not gaining any heat, so alpha on!! However I suggest unless your getting one of those tasty back shots,stick to just the heavy laser and the mediums, with a couple Streaks just in case. You might end up running up some heat, but your jumpjets or supercharger can pretty much get you out of any jam.
Add to that? i know what more could it have!! Its got a light tag!, now your probably thinking "pfft" but if you have one of these near some hueys? You can see why the Wolfs decided they needed new borders as a wolf player has said to me after facing this mech.
Now its downsides. Its not a very long range mech, so your going to have to use your mobility to dictate the range of the battle and know when the gettings good. The Heavy laser does some tasty damage, but its a heat hog and has a to hit penalty which can tempt you not to wanna play with it. Against anything with reflect armor your going to be at a disadvantage..until you can use your streaks and kick the surly surat in the leg for double damage.
Over all i really love this mech as you can see, its not the best but it can wreck a lot of the rest.
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The Karhu is definitely my favorite bear heavy. As someone who finds himself fighting against them more often than fighting in them, they definitely have my respect.
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I have done bad bad things with the executioner F
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Improved Heavy and 3 ER Mediums :-X
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*laughs* Sorry about that, wrote that in 10 minutes and when i checked it it was for spelling errors #P but yes 3 ER medium lasers. Most of the time your gonna find yourself outranged but its got the mobility to cut the range rather quickly.
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Nice write-up, Foxx. I can't really recommend a new 'mech to you, since my preferred design style trends more towards ZombieMech and less towards your favoured run-and-backstab playstyle.
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Its not so much i favor the run and backstab playbook, its just i noticed some of our battlemechs almost seem to lend themselves to it. I actually love me some day of the ZombieMech and as long as someone recommends something that isn't the Bear Cub ;) I'm willing to try it out.
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Well you could try both Ursus flavours. The original is a zombie and the II is a run and gun back stabber.
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You know how folks say that the Bears are for the most part quite happy until poked and then *MASSIVE OVER REACTION!*
This gif I think embodies that moment when the person doing the poking realises "I've gone dun goofed..."
http://imgur.com/gallery/Y1Eb25x (http://imgur.com/gallery/Y1Eb25x)
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i think when they play Nekrogoblikon-Bears over the com instead of giving you a batchal, you can expect a massive over reaction ;D
Listening to you as you say your prayers -
Evil bears with deadly stares.
Ripping you apart to protect what's theirs -
There is no escape from the furious bears!
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I'v been having fun with the Ursus, i forgot how much of a zombie that mech was, with a zombies speed ;)
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Now Foxx, there is nothing wrong with liking heavy lasers!
<this message sponsored by Clan Star Adder and distributed with license by Clan Shark Fox>
Seriously, I've always been a fan of mechs that tote a couple of ERPPC's and streak 6's. Perfect weapon combo on a cavalry heavy, bracket wonderful. But with heavy lasers and superchargers you can start doing some terrible things. The Karhu G and the new Executioners are wonderfully evil monsters that I am all about. It's enough to make be very pro-Bear
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You know you wanna switch your Blue's Cold ;D Go from cold blooded to cold environment! You should try the Arcas 3 sometime, its rather tasty as well with its Jumps and HLL.
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I'm working on a non-canon unit based on former Ghost Bear warriors who took the family concept to the extreme, and had one. The 5 members of the star are based on me, the Mrs, our 2 boys, and our dog ;D
Basing it in the 3140's so I can play with new toys
I have always liked the Bears despite bailing on the clans. If there is any IS state in the current time frame I'd not root against its the Viking Bear thingy. Too many cool toys, the coolest mascott, and a world view I can relate to, we're nice and friendly just don't mess with us cuz we'll rip your face off.
The comment earlier about he neighbor and the news paper was perfect.
I struggle to like any IS based faction purely because I feel obligated to be a pillar of homeworld clan fandom in the community. This is a rather silly principle but I seem to be settled on it.
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We bailed on the crazy IlKhan who was a bit too much like Amaris for my tastes. Personally I don't much mind that we are not in the Homeworlds. The ultimate objective was a return to the Inner Sphere, eventually Terra. Here we are living a not so bad life with only a handful of cultural problems and living the decent life: while the Falcons go homicidal, the Wolves do some drastic flanking, the Horses prepare for mass desertions or a war with their once close ally, the Sharks continue to profit and remain mysterious, and the Ravens doing their thing with the AFFS and DCMS.
Now on the other hand: never was a fan of Heavy Lasers: BUT the supercharger combo with Streaks and ER PPCs is and always will be god especially with Clan tech. ATM's would almost be better Cept for that darn heat curve and mass that goes with them.
On a completely different topic: I'm also working on a unit of former Bears and Horse bondsmen: need a snappy unit name based around the idea of the Knights Errant type units : a mobile force to troubleshoot around the galaxy. Current forces looking at a mixed binary Nova to a mixed full Supernova Trinary. Also need a Dropship: a Modified Outpost would work (with fluff of course) but short of the standard modified Overlord is their anything we have that would work better?
Ideas comments questions insults always appreciated and helpful
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FORMER Bears with Horses bondsmen? Sounds like there's quite a story there.
Outpost seems the best bet, could even have been acquired when you picked up the Horsies.
Wandering comes to mind... so quick name idea's would be 'Wandering Fire' or 'Wandering Justice' .... or the less serious 'Justice Comes Knocking'.
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Probabally a better motto "Justice Comes Knocking!"
Basically the plot revolves around a Bear Trinary deserting during the Second RD/DCMS/NC war because of the Khans Bear-zerker-ness. They find the Republic the next best bet and get offered by retired and aging Belle Lee , Commanding General, to be a new Errant Force.
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Had a match that makes you just feel good to be a bear 8)
As for your unit. I'll think of a few names, got a couple rolling around but i'm not happy with the "Bear Knights"
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How about calling them "Care Bears" instead?
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Just make sure they have the Bare Essentials.
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Rogue Bears?
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Wanted fugitives.
Cote's Lament.
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i'm already using the stray bears, so how about wondering bear?
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The Lost Bears (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OJS8U30Yxk) O0
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The Lost Bears (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OJS8U30Yxk) O0
thats almost too perfect
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*Giggles* I'v made someone Hate Karhus
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That sort of behavior makes my enemies use Karhus.
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That sort of behavior makes my enemies use Karhus.
that would be a FUN match. Actually i only say i made someone hate Karhus because the mention of me taking one made him state he hates them ;D Also just beat up a Timberwolf A with the G >:D. Had to go hey diddle diddle straight up the middle for the map and got some lucky dice rolls. Karhus are so much fun to play with :D
To be honest i only won the star on star match because halfway through i broke zell after my Mad dog A ammo exploded and got knocked out. After that it was a knock down drag slug match where my Karhu G's Srms were pretty useless against the warwolf...the HLL wasn't! *knocked it out tho with headshots*
While my winning because i broke zell means i gained no honor...i can state canon precedence when bears have broken zell against the wolves ;)
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that would be a FUN match. Actually i only say i made someone hate Karhus because the mention of me taking one made him state he hates them ;D Also just beat up a Timberwolf A with the G >:D. Had to go hey diddle diddle straight up the middle for the map and got some lucky dice rolls. Karhus are so much fun to play with :D
To be honest i only won the star on star match because halfway through i broke zell after my Mad dog A ammo exploded and got knocked out. After that it was a knock down drag slug match where my Karhu G's Srms were pretty useless against the warwolf...the HLL wasn't! *knocked it out tho with headshots*
While my winning because i broke zell means i gained no honor...i can state canon precedence when bears have broken zell against the wolves ;)
A win is a win. In the end, the winner gets the honor. ;D
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A win is a win. In the end, the winner gets the honor. ;D
Honor of the clan before honor of the warrior ;)
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The Lost Bears (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OJS8U30Yxk) O0
Lol you're lucky I watched the youtube cause there was no way I was gonna even consider that after all the times my old siblings watched the lost boys in my house
Running them thru MM matches when I can right now
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Lol you're lucky I watched the youtube cause there was no way I was gonna even consider that after all the times my old siblings watched the lost boys in my house
Running them thru MM matches when I can right now
If you ever need an opfor let me know :)
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If I make thru the next week or two without major issues definetly
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Man iv been on a roll with Kobold IICs, Took out a Tomahawk with a point!!!! they died the same round but still O0
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Which version/variant of the Tomahawk ? And not bad either way...
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was a Tomahawk II Prime. It took a couple SRM's to the head from a Executioner I as it ran by,but apparently kobolds are so scary now it focused on them for a couple of turns, so my Kobolds while getting HAG'd to death got a shot off with its machineguns to its dome, Rest of the Kobolds were chasing Tanks around like a benny hill Skit.
Joke of the match was "Tanks for the extra targets"
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Nice kill, Foxx. How many movement points do the Kobold IICs have? I haven't had the pleasure of using them.
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6 VTOL MP
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Damn. That's even faster than the Sylph.
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Damn. That's even faster than the Sylph.
like the writeup in NTNU says, they learned to fly ;D With me they learned to kill >:D It helps that i like to channel my inner MD Geist when i use battle armor >:/!
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Learning to fly comes from a passage in Small Gods about eagles and tortoises.
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My happy Ghost Bear moment of the day: I restructured my 2nd Bear Regulars unit and discovered that I had enough battle armor left over to form them into an Elemental Trinary from Beta Galaxy.
It's like I hit the battle armor lottery!
The new unit has one Star of Golem Assault Armor and two Stars of Elemental Battle Armor with enough Anhurs and Eldingars to transport every Point. So happy! :D
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that is awesome!!!! YOU get a battle armor! and you get a battle armor! battle armor for everybody!!! *enemies groan*
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So for my Decanting day on the 23rd, i ask all of us bears take a moment of silence and raise our glasses to the memory of the Ursa Major [cheers]
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*lifts his lemonade!*
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To the Ursa Major! And to Foxx....? *raises a beer*
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[cheers] to the Ursa Major! and yes, of course, to Foxx :)
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you all make me blush. To the Ursa Major! a ship so bad ass it took 3 warships to take it on O0
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Four warships... Two limped out and one didn't make it back
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Don't make me be the one to suggest adding up the tonnage before you get too excited.
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Don't make me be the one to suggest adding up the tonnage before you get too excited.
*Angry bear noises and general grumbling sounds*
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woo turned 31 and had fun with the Executioner. Figured id make a birthday post and show you guys the video i made of me Megameking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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woo turned 31 and had fun with the Executioner. Figured id make a birthday post and show you guys the video i made of me Megameking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Sonova!!!
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woo turned 31 and had fun with the Executioner. Figured id make a birthday post and show you guys the video i made of me Megameking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
As long as it still respected you in the morning.
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I've got a shiny, new Kodiak II on its way to me right now, and I'm trying to decide what to put with it for a Star. Anybody got any ideas or suggestions?
Edit: He found friends in the form of a Mad Cat Mk II Enhanced, a Viking IIC (refit), a Bruin 2, and a Ryoken 2. Nice little Assault Star there.
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A question for those who are more bear-minded:
How does the Dominion go about their mechanized battle armor in the dark age/3145 era? Gone are the days of every mech being an omni (not to mention every battle armor being mech-carryable), and near as I can tell the only tanks the Dominion uses as transports are hovers (Tyr, Eldingar). There are several useful-looking infantry transports in the MUL, but the Dominion isn't interested in them.
The last option I see in the MUL with IT5 and Dominion availability is the Anhur VTOL. So, is that pretty much the sole option for terrain that is hover-unfriendly?
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The day of my decanting has come (and mosty passed) and now time to spend my hard earned spoils on more BT PDF's!
Don't make me be the one to suggest adding up the tonnage before you get too excited.
A little late but something on the order of two million to a versus one point two: and of that half a million tons limped away.... Meh I'll take it.
As for you TDC: Foxx and Steve made a case a while back for good Omnis still being useful: not just mechs but tanks. The Epona still works, and the Hephaestus, both from the Horses. What Omnis we have are supplemented by these fast tanks. On the other hand forces that don't I think would still use the APC approach: Maxims , Saxons, and the like. And of course their is always the Kirghiz C...
I haven't done much in the modern era though so I'm not the best person to answer
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Happy Decanting day Tyler!
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Yeah, Due to the ten-to-a-star nature of vees, you can move two stars of BA with one star of omni or apc vees. a whole trinary if they're omni APCs like the R-10 and you dont mind sequential unloading (You should mind sequential unloading.)
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This may be a silly question, but... are there any of the Kungs-Armé units still active as of 3145? Or is it an all-Clanner force that defends the Dominion?
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This may be a silly question, but... are there any of the Kungs-Armé units still active as of 3145? Or is it an all-Clanner force that defends the Dominion?
It's a complex answer. Generally, however, the KungsArme lives on as 2nd line forces integrated into the Ghost Bear Touman. There are three galaxies (Tundra, Polar, Taiga) that are made up of clusters that are former FRR regiments. Rasalhague Galaxy is a front line galaxy that appears to also be manned by non-Ghost Bears (judging by the names of the COs.. they don't look like bloodnames I recognize at any rate)
I'm sure some of the Dominion fans can elaborate in detail.
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Thanks! I'd be intrested in that.
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So, I bought XTRO:Republic, Vol. 1 a couple of weeks ago, and only a few days ago did I really go through it to see what was there.
Did anybody else find themselves grinning in a sly fashion when reading about the "Surat" battle armor?
I think I need to add a Star of Grey Death suits to my GenCon buy list.
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I would appreciate it greatly if my fellow Bears would vote for the Ursus in this month's Archive Special Return poll, down in the Iron Wind Metals section of the forum.
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Voted! Lets all get us some Ursus!!!
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Ursi. :)
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Uruses, Ursi, whatever.
Thanks to everyone that voted for the Ursus, as it's now tied for first and the vote closes on the 9th. With any luck the Ursus should be one of the winners, even if it doesn't get anymore votes.
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So played my first actual game of tabletop battletech the other day: Cept the guy didn't have his Clan models on him.
Ran Sucession era Awesome, hunchback, Jenner, and Cataphract against my Enforcer, Panther, Grasshopper, and Charger (AC-20 Srm and laser variant)
Well my major mistake was attempting a DFA with my very damaged Enforcer: because I've only played MM I didn't realize how bad ammo explosions actually were. Then my Charger rammed his AC down the Jenner and Hunchbacks throat. Grasshopper was a beast. He had to leave but gave me the game with his Awesome and Cataphract heavily damaged and my Grasshopper and Panther were pristine.
Told him I'd bring the tech manuals if he brought his CGB forces this week for another game. So hopefully I'll be representing our Clan in a couple days.
Also excited to know a couple guys in my area play the tabletop version
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Good job! Just wait until you have a proper touman under you, trothkin!
(Yes, yes, the profile says CC, but CGB is my Clan Faction; I alternate between the two on my profile.)
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I honestly don't wan to buy models (because of mainly lack of money (and I especially don't want to paint them )) but knowing theirs people in my area who do play almost makes me change my mind
Would probably create a Ghost Bear and a Wolverine Trinary circa 3145 and Annihilation era respectively.
(Cause it's all good that we have secondary factions)
In the mean time : I guess it's time to print out some record sheets!
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Uruses, Ursi, whatever.
Thanks to everyone that voted for the Ursus, as it's now tied for first and the vote closes on the 9th. With any luck the Ursus should be one of the winners, even if it doesn't get anymore votes.
I got at least 3 votes from campaigning, will do my best to see if i can get more!
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Unexpected Question of the Day: If you had to paint all of your CGB mechs one color, would you pick grey or blue?
Context: I have come to terms that I am never, ever going to finish painting everything if I keep using parade schemes, so I'm opting for single colors ala good old fashioned plastic army men. Most factions are easy. Almost all of my Inner Sphere mechs are being treated to SLDF tan. The handful of mechs that I have that scream DCMS are all going to end up in red. I can't decide if the Bears are more grey than blue, though.
Cheers!
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Blue, jaguars and Gray, Wolves are Gray/brown, Falcons are green
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Oh... good point with the Jaguars. I never considered them in my plans.
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One of the reasons I like Beta Galaxy, is the ease of painting them up. Base coat blue, then some Grey and White highlights (maybe color the weapon barrels if your feeling really fancy) and done! A pretty easy scheme that also looks good.
(http://www.camospecs.com/images/schemes/fanjoyCGB-beta_front.jpg)
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Beta Galaxy was my benchmark for choosing a shade of blue. I like their scheme a lot, but my painting time is more limited than I expected. I can see myself doing the blue base now and adding the washes and gunmetal bits and a really basic cockpit jeweling and then maybe revisiting them in the future once I've finished painting everything else to add the cool ice pattern.
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voted, keeping the ursus in a solid second place
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I was told the Ursus is bad and my faction should feel bad...So i did a two on one match and made one of them whine enough i got drunk and needed cheese to go with it ;) Ursus,Ursus,Ursus!!
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Was told a Lobo would school a Ursus..Result? I told them they forgot one important thing...I'M A ZOMBIE!! and ripped their neck out for a Double Ko! [watch]
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Ursus exist to keep Timberwolves busy while your killers go to town.
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See? even Jellico lists "Ursus Battlemechs" and "Killers" as two separate categories. :P
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Just put Ursus over the top in the poll. Not a hard choice given the competition.
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Seems the Ursus won guys! *rick dance* i know what mech i'm buying for a christmas gift to myself!
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My thanks to everyone that voted for the Ursus. I can now complete my Alshain Industries collection.
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there are only two 'Mechs I have doubles of, the Summoner and the Stormcrow, and only because I have an old and new sculpt for each...do I want to get a second Ursus? hmmm
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get yourself another Ursus Zeruel, then make it the Ursus PR.....Then go out and get you some war crimes ;D
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But that's the worst ursus! It doesn't fit a C3i system AT ALL. It has no role that actually benefits from linking to other units so far as I can tell. It pales next to the Beowulf PR for being the point man, it lacks the ranged guns to back up the pointman at range, and it lacks the punch to serve as a deterrent in close. Best thing I can think of, is that someone wastes their time shooting at it, and doesn't shoot at a more promising target.
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Its made to lay waste to poor city's left defenseless, Hence you can't spell war crimes without Ursus!!
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Hey my Ghost Bear Brethren. It's been a while but I am still alive.
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Hey my Ghost Bear Brethren. It's been a while but I am still alive.
That's excellent to hear! hope is going well in your cave :) How are the cubs doing?
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Its made to lay waste to poor city's left defenseless, Hence you can't spell war crimes without Ursus!!
That'd be a good job the Ursus 3, or whatever the number is that swaps the C3i for Watchdog. the PR just wastes tonnage with the suite if that's all you're doing with it.
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Hey my Ghost Bear Brethren. It's been a while but I am still alive.
good to see you buddy :)
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Thanks for asking. The eldest cub is engaged to a future doctor and starting work on his Masters in Communications and teaching two classes. The youngest is in his third year of college working towards his Vet degree. Since getting out of the daily grind of BT I've restarted my model train set and instead of building Mechs, I'm working on building wood model ships.
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Thanks for asking. The eldest cub is engaged to a future doctor and starting work on his Masters in Communications and teaching two classes. The youngest is in his third year of college working towards his Vet degree. Since getting out of the daily grind of BT I've restarted my model train set and instead of building Mechs, I'm working on building wood model ships.
Kerensky!! i remember when they were on the swim team in highschool, how the years pass #P
What ships are you building?
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Its made to lay waste to poor city's left defenseless, Hence you can't spell war crimes without Ursus!!
hahhh war crimes, that is what losers yell
Hey my Ghost Bear Brethren. It's been a while but I am still alive.
well met, and quite glad to see you around
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Are there any news on the Dominion in TRO 3150?
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Makes you feel old? Imagine how I feel. LOL I'm three sails away from finishing the Rattlesnake and will be starting the Niagara right after that. Actually I've started a little work on the Niagara keel. They are really testing my mode making skills as I am used to plastic for the most part. I will admit there are a lot more ropes on a ship than I ever imagined.
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Not ropes, lines. Nautical term.
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What is your personal soundtrack for CGB / RD?
I'm thinking of Wardruna (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wardruna), who got featured in Vikings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikings_%28TV_series%29). Especially Rasalhague Galaxy gives that vibe to me.
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Immigrant Song by Zeppelin.
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I would go with Laser cannon deth sentence,if its during the Jihad, The Cyborg slayers.
Divide and Collide
Cross Us Your Denied
We'll Provide Your Insides
To Your Robotic Eyes
We'll Blow Up Your Home
Your Big Ships Made Of Chrome
Divide Collide
Looks Like Your Battery Died
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Rockaby Your Bear. The Wiggles.
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Hey my Ghost Bear Brethren. It's been a while but I am still alive.
Good to see you, Pagan. It's been far too long.
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Finished ship. 20 months 1 week.
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*eyes squint* I make of it you don't know the real name of the battlemech! Its a timberwolf! ;)
...Apply burn cream liberally over affected area
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and holy water to the zombie quote!! :o
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and holy water to the zombie quote!! :o
Holy water Fluid guns to the rescue!! *squirt squirt squirt* Supersoaker 3145!
Finished ship. 20 months 1 week.
Thats some dedication! looking awesome! Does the ship have a name?
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Can anybody suggest a fair force to take on 2 Arion and 3 Cyllaros?
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Can anybody suggest a fair force to take on 2 Arion and 3 Cyllaros?
So are you talking about 2 points of Arions and 3 points of Cyllaros bidded as vees or mechs 8) Those damn liberal Horses O0
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Hmm. Say a vehicle Star. I am trying to come up with a scenario but know nothing about QuadVees.
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Hmm. Say a vehicle Star. I am trying to come up with a scenario but know nothing about QuadVees.
Well, they can be bid as a star of 5 'Mechs, but there are multiple examples of them being bid as a star of 10 vehicles. So you could see it either way. It all depends on if this is supposed to be against a force that knows nothing about the quadvees. If the enemy knows about them, they probably would cry foul and counter with an appropriate sized force.
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The plan is to commit some unusual stuff as a educational experience.
The plan is to escort some green Bear Cubs off a map. I have balanced and played out a force of Procyons and Buraqs to hunt the Bear Cubs (if they choose to fight). Now I am figuring out the escorts and their opponents (the QuadVees ).
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In that case, if I was running it, I'd deploy them as a star of vehicles (10 quadvees) and keep them in vehicle mode until some key point and then have them convert to 'Mechs. Even better is if you use proxy minis, use some other vehicle on the board until they convert.
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So what 5 Dominion Mechs would you use to take on the 10 QuadVees?
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So what 5 Dominion Mechs would you use to take on the 10 QuadVees?
My 2 Kerenskies:
Total Horse Star = 12,096 BV2
6x Cyllaros = 8700 BV2
4x Arion = 3396 BV2
Total Bear Binary = 14,298 BV2 (or less with green Cub warriors)
1x Vulture III A = 1,880 BV2
2x Ryoken II = 3,602 BV2
2x Ursus = 3,556 BV2
5 x Bear Cub = 5,260 BV2 (or less with green Cub warriors)
I chose the Vulture III A, the Ryoken II, and the Ursus because there's not many Bear designs with less BV2 without dropping down to lightweights like the Viper and Fire Moth. And with a star of Bear Cubs, I figured that lightweights were already well represented. This Bear binary is still ~2,200 BV2 more than the Horse star, but by the time you adjust the Bear Cub BV2 for their green warriors, it should be fairly even.
Fluff-wise, the Ryoken IIs and Ursuses (Ursi?) have the feel of second-line garrison or solahma mechwarriors escorting Bear Cub sibkin in training. With a recent-build omni, the Vulture III A is obviously the commander, probably an aggressive and frustrated one given that massed SRM configuration.
Hope this helps.
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I would bid one Polaris and make it rain....but i'm evil. Otherwise i would bid a bunch of Executioners and run circles around them...taking Polaroids to show to my sibkin.
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I would have said a combination Star of Viking IIC's and other second-line Clan Mechs. Maybe a Kingfisher as the Commander's mech.
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So what 5 Dominion Mechs would you use to take on the 10 QuadVees?
I'd go with the following:
Arcas 2
Kuma
Ursus 3
Mongrel MGL-T2
Dasher II 2
Comes out to 10263 BV2, comparable to the star of 10 quadvees. I know you didn't ask for it, but in Alpha Strike terms, it qualifies as a Medium Battle Star and as a Probe Star. From a fluff perspective, if the Bear Cubs are the trainees, this works well as a Star assigned to supervising training. The Arcas, Kuma, and Dasher are energy-only so they don't need to be resupplied, a bonus for training missions. Likewise a training unit is going to be low on the supply pole, so the fact that the Mongrel and Ursus share the same autocannon ammo would help logistics. The only other ammo needed is for the Ursus' AP Gauss rifles, which should be easy to supply. Using the Watchdog CEWS on the Ursus and ECM Suite on the Mongrel, the Star can simulate training under different electronic warfare situations. And the Flamer on the Ursus can start a fire to train in/around.
The Kuma with it's IJJs can simulate the long jumps of light recon 'Mechs. It and the Arcas mount max armor for their tonnage, presenting perseverance challenge to work through all that armor. The Dasher is as fast as pretty much any 'Mech the Bear Cub warriors might face. The Mongrel mounts a retractable blade, showcasing one more type of combat the trainees might face.
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I have a newbie question:
How do you folks decide what colors to paint various units? Is there an official list that says all the Mech's in X galaxy/cluster/binary are blue while all the Mechs in Y galaxy/cluster/binary are white? Or is it just up to personal judgement and creativity?
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I have a newbie question:
How do you folks decide what colors to paint various units? Is there an official list that says all the Mech's in X galaxy/cluster/binary are blue while all the Mechs in Y galaxy/cluster/binary are white? Or is it just up to personal judgement and creativity?
http://camospecs.com is a good place to get some ideas.
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I have a newbie question:
How do you folks decide what colors to paint various units? Is there an official list that says all the Mech's in X galaxy/cluster/binary are blue while all the Mechs in Y galaxy/cluster/binary are white? Or is it just up to personal judgement and creativity?
well there are the official parade schemes, as Foxx linked with camospecs, but not every unit has an official scheme listed
and of course, many unit's fluff says things like "painted in appropriate camo for combat" or some such
so unless you are trying to create a specific unit and paint it in it's parade scheme, just go with whatever you feel like
(for example, if you want a scheme that can represent any unit for any time period, you probably don't want it to be painted up exactly like Alpha Galaxy)
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So as long as it's some variation of Blue/White/Grey it would probably fit the theme of the clan then.
The examples on camospecs are a big help as well.
Thanks for the info. :)
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Thing is really there's no RIGHT way to paint mechs, especially inner sphere ones, a lot tended to be rather personalised or would be similar to cammo patterns you'd see in modern armed forces or any time when camo's been used.
BUT, if you wanna have your Kodiak be a lovely shocking pink with lime green legs, then you go for it. :)
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BUT, if you wanna have your Kodiak be a lovely shocking pink with lime green legs, then you go for it. :)
Dooooooo iiiiiit
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I kinda want to do that now...like a watermelon 'Mech
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It'd be like, Ace Darwin's kid got his hands on a Kodiak or something.
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I have always been interested in scandinavian culture and norse myth. The epic Karelian front during the Winter War and Continuation War don't hurt one bit, though it seems that they've been pretty hosed as far as Battletech goes. Umpteen centuries under the DCMS thumb, then freedom as Rasalhague, then not freedom as the Ghost Bear Dominion, and under some Wolf worlds too...and now I have no idea what's going on in 3150.
With that in mind, how many of you guys are Ghost Bear fans and who's here for the Shilone *****es and Machine Gun Knees? Sell me on the Dominion or on Rasalhague itself, in your favorite timeframe. Considering they've got one of the biggest permanent wartime settings in the game (as far as I know) it makes sense there'd be plenty to do with them at any point in the game. The fact there's openings for all kinds of folks to step into the faction makes it more fun, to me.
So, what's your attraction to the RasDom? What do you think the best part of the faction is, and do you like pre-, during-, or post-Invasion settings? I'm gonna go poke more around Sarna, but I'm up for some ideas.
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I am an Old School Ghost Bear, here against my will. :P
As a Warrior of CGB, these days I have to take the Rasalhagians as a part of that bargain, whether i want to or not. ;)
What drew me to the Bears were the Family Values, the mechs selection and the combat / living style style.
The Theory goes (I have yet to master it) that CGB dances for a bit, and finds a weakness, then smashes it open with speed and brute force, using our surprisingly mobile assault line. I like that idea.
I love the Mad Dog, and the Executioner has really grown on me, along with the Viper. I am slowly warming up to the Karhu.
CGB does nothing hasty, but when they do act it is with 10000% effort. Once they make a choice, they will commit and it will be done; also something i like.
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When I play bear it tends to be warden hippie freeminder bear, so I'm totally cool with our rasalhague little brothers. And with Finnish and Swedish ancestors in my blood, my fondness only increases.
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Honour and family values for sure: nice selection in our Touman from mechs To Battle Armor and Aerospace fighters. Three Leviathans at one point plus a Nightlord. Excellent charachter selection and compared to some other factions only a few bad points in their history.
Add that to the Viking Rasalhague Republic which I didn't care for much until they merged ( and grew to like) and then Vega (which I liked from the start)
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I signed up back in 96 based purely on the fact the Bears were not the overexposed Wolves or Falcons. There is some irony there given the way the Bears have gone from a sleeper faction to one some consider to be blessed.
The main attraction of the Bears is that they play the industrial game. It gets mentioned surprisingly rarely compared to the naval, merchant, or tank Clans. Perhaps not that surprising given production is driven by plot, but it is pretty clear that even in the Homeworlds the Bears were rolling in resources. One of my favourite notes from the early sourcebooks is one of the Bears most notable developments was that they introduced a superior breed of wheat at a time when everyone else was spitting out Clantech weapons.
Really that tells you everything you need to know. The Bears are a camper faction you need to wipe out early or else they are going to out resource you and drop it all on your head. Somewhat hilariously it has worked out for them in the fiction. As a faction they got ignored in the 3060s while some innocent remarks set some snowballs in motion. In the confusion no one stopped the snowballs and suddenly the balanced contender of FM:Warden Clans is the behemoth of FM:3085.
That is sort of a source of frustration to me. When I signed up the Bears were not the munchkin Clan. They became one by accident (like all the good empires). So by signing up with the Bears now you are going to cop flak. Some fair, some not.
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Anyway, that's just bragging rights. Playing as a Bear is the business end of things.
Historically Ghost Bear 'Mechs were weird. They lacked the straight out balanced trooper like a Storm Crow or Timber Wolf, and when they did use them they used odd variants like the Storm Crow C. So learning to play as a Ghost Bear was a challenge in itself as standard tactics as typified by the 4/6 heavies and 5/8 mediums of the Inner Sphere don't work.
It has actually been interesting over the last decade to see attitudes change. 15 years ago you would never see a Viper rate well in a poll of medium OmniMechs. Now you do. Perhaps it is BV2 and the extra playing space and time allowed by MegaMek, or even the improving Inner Sphere 'Mechs, but the mobility (read ability to get out of trouble) of Bear 'Mechs has come to be appreciated more. BV fighting in Clan 'Mechs against the Inner Sphere is basically Ghost Bear tactics. Snipe at long range till you have done enough damage that you won't be buried at short range. These days a Dire Wolf is a death trap.
Now some people will talk to you about battle armour. Basically you can ignore it because no one plays with it. Did I say that aloud? Okay this game is about big stompy robots. A lot of us play with battle armour and as a Clan player in general it is probably a good idea to know something about it. But in pick up games it generally slows things down too much. So unless you have sympathetic opponents it won't get used. That said we have a lot of good suits. Once suits diversify in the 70s we seem to settle down on missile boats for our preference with stealth as an interesting though poorly exploited sideline. Talk to Hellbie about the bad things out light armour can do at a Watch level. I would also say that in 3130 we have the best artillery spotter in the game.
Same about aerospace. Which is a shame because Ghost Bear aerospace just keeps getting better and better. It suffers from the general narrative downgrade all Clans copped, but you are still running a Binary or Trinary of Clantech fighters per Cluster which mean you outnumber and out tech most Regiments. As usual our industry is probably better than our pilots. Never forget 3 out of 5 heavy Omnifighters are Ghost Bear designs, as are 1 third of Clan JumpShip designs. WarShips is messier but you get the picture.
Tanks start of fairly traditional and get better over time. Probably the most interesting thing to say here is I can name a Ghost Bear Galaxy Commander that drove a tank. I can't do that for the Horses.
To round things up, the Bears start fairly standard with normal SLDF equipment. By 3050 they have got quirky and require some thought to play. By 3080 they have diversified and you are starting to see things like vehicle transports like Tyrs or actual fire support. By 3130 there are lots of options for tactics. The front line Clusters are traditional, the secondline Clusters pick and choose Spheroid tactics as they see best, while the Kungsarme invests in all sorts of insanity (some not yet supported by existing designs).
If you want more I have a couple of old Jihad era reviews that I can post (and should probably update for 3145).
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I got into the Bear's 'cause I use to collect Space Wolves and found it easy to paint up mech's like that, just adding camo as I went along :) But the Bear's are (for one of the Clans) a fairly chill bunch with a strong sense of family and honour. I also guess its because they were not;
HEY LOOK ITS CLAN WOLF/JADE FALCON! YOU LOVE THEM DON'T YOU!!!
Err well actually..
*Gets Wolf/falcon rubbed in face* LOOOOOOOVE THEM!!!!
the Bears in the past were just sort of there, not limelight stealing, or punching each other for really really dumb reasons, just there, bearing along, just doing their thing.
*a wild jihad appears*
*RAEG ATTACK!!!!!!*
(http://i30.tinypic.com/2welwti.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7qIup-qbhw
Suddenly this Clan that everyone's kinda forgot about is now suddenly equal roughly to a Great House!
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So, what's your attraction to the RasDom? What do you think the best part of the faction is, and do you like pre-, during-, or post-Invasion settings?
When not playing merc or Periphery scum, I was an Elsie and then moved over to the FRR after the Fourth Succession War. When the Wolves and Bears divvied up the FRR, they became my favorite Clan factions. The Wolves have the appeal of the epic Kerensky past and destiny (whatever it turns out to be), actual military acumen among at least some of their leadership, and some of the better designs. The Bears have the appeal of consistent Warden leanings post-Revvival, actual administrative acumen among their leadership, and interesting tactics/designs (Fire Moth/BA, fast mobile assault designs).
In the current era, Omega Galaxy is arguably the most interesting Bear unit to play in given its proximity to Terra, integration between Clan trueborn and Spheroid freeborn, mix of equipment, suspension of zellbrigen, and negative impression with the rest of the Clan.
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Omega seems interesting, though a bit of a mixed bag as far as its potential future. What's the story of the 3rd Drakons, anyway? I'm kinda liking them so far, and they end up in Tundra Galaxy it seems. Not a lot of information on them there, or what they did from 3067 on that I've found yet. Suggestions?
Also this is totally not at all related to the awesome special unit rules the 3rd Drakons get. Hakkaa päälle indeed!
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I am an Old School Ghost Bear, here against my will. :P
As a Warrior of CGB, these days I have to take the Rasalhagians as a part of that bargain, whether i want to or not. ;)
What drew me to the Bears were the Family Values, the mechs selection and the combat / living style style.
The Theory goes (I have yet to master it) that CGB dances for a bit, and finds a weakness, then smashes it open with speed and brute force, using our surprisingly mobile assault line. I like that idea.
I signed up back in 96 based purely on the fact the Bears were not the overexposed Wolves or Falcons. There is some irony there given the way the Bears have gone from a sleeper faction to one some consider to be blessed.
these two quotes describe me to a tee (albeit more around 1999 for me)
so I think it's pretty obvious then that I think the best part of the RasDom faction is the Ghost Bears, and my favourite settings are pre-, during and slightly post-Invasion settings...I was a Crusader Bear, but I accept the path we've taken since
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So here's a noodle to chew on. The Kungsarme, by 3085, has been switched into a Clan format, each regiment now making up a Cluster. How far do you guys personally carry the conversion, and do you roll with a pure Clan organization or throw in a more mixed force? I'm still looking at the 3rd Drakons, obviously, but giving them enough of a Ghost Bear flavor to fit the post-Jihad era and carry it into the Dark Age.
Per FM3085, 22% of the force is Omni, though it's a secondline unit...so it'll make the RATs interesting. As they're on the DCMS border, there's always the potential for salvage, especially after the Vega annexation, so a little extra wasabi on your swedish meatballs is to be expected. And I'm guessing it'd still count as a "heavy" Cluster, so that's gonna be a lot of Mad Dogs...
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Well I would start by ignoring RATs when you have the better force levels available.
It is a Drakøn. Artillery and close quarters.
It is hard to find cannon clubs with Clantech so there is half your IS 'Mechs there. Look at what they were using previously. DCMS and Steiner, plus a diet of acceptable WoB left overs more recently.
They have good access to artillery for the first time with Hueys. They have a very solid replacement MBT. Remember they are running Huscarls so that's a chunk of Omni there. What is their infantry like?
How much are they trusted. I don't have my books handy. What did they do after Grumium?
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Well I would start by ignoring RATs when you have the better force levels available.
Eh, sometimes it's fun to see what happens - and the RATs did tell me something interesting; out of the two foreign machines I got (the Hitotsume Kozo and Scourge) everything jumps. Some of them jump a lot. The Bears really like their mobility, I see...
It is a Drakøn. Artillery and close quarters.
Berserker charges under LRM and Arrow barrages then. Noted.
It is hard to find cannon clubs with Clantech so there is half your IS 'Mechs there. Look at what they were using previously. DCMS and Steiner, plus a diet of acceptable WoB left overs more recently.
Fortunately in that regard, 3rd Drakøn gets a special rule of 'drop whatever spare gear you want, add a hatchet if you have a hand actuator' on all star commander machines. Simple means of gaming the system, assign all normally hatchet-equipped machines to non-star commanders, then mod those specifically.
They have good access to artillery for the first time with Hueys. They have a very solid replacement MBT. Remember they are running Huscarls so that's a chunk of Omni there. What is their infantry like?
Well, going by the few notes on CGB organization, and 'retaining their vehicle trinaries' I'm gonna roll with a mech trinary, two mech supernova trinaries, an aerospace binary, and a vehicle trinary for the cluster.
How much are they trusted. I don't have my books handy. What did they do after Grumium?
I'm not sure. What exactly happened at Grumium; was that the hunt for Marco Radick or something else?
Shame there's not a Shilone C out there, that would be cool for the 3rd's air wing to still run them.
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The cadets at Frihet Training Academy mutinied in 3071. The Kungsarme was cycled around based on how they reacted. I forget what the 3rd Drakøn did.
Sounds like a good force make up. Look at Supernovering the tank Trinary rather than the 'Mechs. You are not running a lot of Omnis and that is where your Tyrs are.
I hate that add an ax rule. If you are targeting post 3080 just bite the bullet and take a few Karhus Primes to complement your Axmen and Berserkers. Without TSM your physical combat ability won't be a priority anyway. Heck, even in 3145 when you are running Combine surplus in the role the close quarter 'Mechs are just distractions from the Vikings, Mad Dogs, and Hueys bringing the rain.
You don't need Shilone Cs. Ammon 2s are your bird. They must be as common as dirt after the Leviathan program. As noted before look to Huscarls, they got a Clantech variant. Look to Seydlitz and Sholagars for your IS lights. RATs will give you Clantech. Shilones and Ammons.
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The cadets at Frihet Training Academy mutinied in 3071. The Kungsarme was cycled around based on how they reacted. I forget what the 3rd Drakøn did.
Doesn't appear to have affected them at all, according to Sarna.
Sounds like a good force make up. Look at Supernovering the tank Trinary rather than the 'Mechs. You are not running a lot of Omnis and that is where your Tyrs are.
Considering how painfully mobile said 'Mechs are, especially by 3145, yeah. Okay, so three vanilla 'Mech trinaries, one aero binary, one vehicle trinary supernova. Fortunately, AFVs come two per point so I can mix in transports with gunboats in each star.
I hate that add an ax rule. If you are targeting post 3080 just bite the bullet and take a few Karhus Primes to complement your Axmen and Berserkers. Without TSM your physical combat ability won't be a priority anyway. Heck, even in 3145 when you are running Combine surplus in the role the close quarter 'Mechs are just distractions from the Vikings, Mad Dogs, and Hueys bringing the rain.
Eh, the axe rule is a "may equip" rather than a requirement, but it's a fun little permission in the rules to go customize 'Mechs. The RATs in 3145 were fantastically mobile, and out of 45 'Mechs all but five had jump jets, which happened to be the DCMS and LCAF 'salvage' options. So fast, heavy mobile warfare with gigantic piles of LRMs, especially Clan LRMs, and then just charge. I'll throw bones on the '85 RATs just to see what happens for giggles sake, again more to get a snapshot of the build concept than an actual THIS AND THAT. Also all the really cool RasDom mechs are assaults, waah.
You don't need Shilone Cs. Ammon 2s are your bird. They must be as common as dirt after the Leviathan program. As noted before look to Huscarls, they got a Clantech variant. Look to Seydlitz and Sholagars for your IS lights. RATs will give you Clantech. Shilones and Ammons.
Yeah, but at least right up through 3067 the Holy Valkyrie squadron (best name ever) refused everything but Shilones, even "repeatedly" turning down Huscarls. It's a Tyra Miraborg thing. Granted, by the time of the RasDom it's a case of "the Clan demands it." Now, I don't have any experience with aero, especially in support on the ground map, so I'm wide open there.
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Looking at it, I'd say that a 3145 Rasalhaugian cluster would be a mix of IS and Clan tech. I'd say start with the FM3145 RATs and then expand to the MUL and have fun
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Looking at it, I'd say that a 3145 Rasalhaugian cluster would be a mix of IS and Clan tech. I'd say start with the FM3145 RATs and then expand to the MUL and have fun
Aye, you'd probably see Ursiiiiissisisseses rubbing shoulders with Shadow Hawk 12Cs and the like as well as Kuma's and Karhu's, Arcas' and lots of IIC stuff filling out the assault roles with the Warhammer and Marauder IIC being most predominant. A cluster would also probably have a Kodiak as a command mech.
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Kodiak II for the Cluster commander, definitely. So...do you guys like mixing together individual mechs at star level, or making more homogenous and building your trinaries as combining 3 types?
I still need to find more info on the Drakons, especially since they were completely rebuilt from the ground up prior to the beginnings of the RasDom and the eventual upgrades into more modern machines. Berserker, axe-wielding, heavy mechs are described...so. For a Ghost Bear cluster, 3 trinaries of mechs, how would you guys break down a "heavy" force? How many machines of each weight class, or just go random?
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Warhammer? Really? I think there are a few local assaults first.
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All I can imagine now after reading this conversation is a 3rd Drakons Kirghiz with hatchets pod-mounted onto the wings.
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All I can imagine now after reading this conversation is a 3rd Drakons Kirghiz with hatchets pod-mounted onto the wings.
Rather then having them pod-mounted, maybe they are on the bomb racks?
*Pictures a full bomb-load of 1-ton hatchets being dropped on a very confused Kuritan mechwarrior*
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Rather then having them pod-mounted, maybe they are on the bomb racks?
*Pictures a full bomb-load of 1-ton hatchets being dropped on a very confused Kuritan mechwarrior*
Ladies and gentlemen, we have found a rule that is NOT in tacops.
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Ladies and gentlemen, we have found a rule that is NOT in tacops.
For now...
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So outside of the Dom-Com wars, and some raids against the Wolves, Rasalhague really has just sat down and rebuilt a lot. Has anyone plumbed 3145 and 3150 to see where it's going?
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Typically I run
3 Assaults, 2 Heavies
1 Assault, 2 Heavies, 2 Mediums
1 Heavy, 2 Mediums, 1 Light.
Unless it is something like Delta Galaxy. It is a little heavier than Total Warfare suggests, but it seems to run very light.
As for where the Dominion is going? Who knows.
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Probably keeping a windward eye on the Dracs as well as their coreward border to ward against anything coming a calling from the Homeworlds.
I doubt that the Homeworld Clans are in any position for the Ilkhanship due to their population and industry taking a massive kicking in the wars of the Reaving as well as the dominance of the very isolationist Bastion idea. The Bears for the most part seem content to basically keep their space as their own and not take any off others unless its grabbed from them one and then they tend to go ape and hit back FAR harder. The Bears instead seem to be concentrating on consolidating their hold on the FRR and complete integration of their society and the spheroid one until I doubt they will be distinguishable in a few years maybe a decade.
It seems that the Falcons and Horses are also wary of poking them because i'm going to guess they know that fundementally they are outnumbered and if they poked the bears too much the Bears would just go;
"Fine..you want to fight? Here have a multiple Galaxy scale assault on your space. And yes we are angry."
I doubt the Bears would go full on RAEG ATTACK! like when they did against the Wobbies but if Malvina was even more nuts and tried something Mongol shaped against the Bears I think that would provoke a VERY strong reaction.
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It seems that the Falcons and Horses are also wary of poking them because i'm going to guess they know that fundementally they are outnumbered and if they poked the bears too much the Bears would just go;
"Fine..you want to fight? Here have a multiple Galaxy scale assault on your space. And yes we are angry."
I doubt the Bears would go full on RAEG ATTACK! like when they did against the Wobbies but if Malvina was even more nuts and tried something Mongol shaped against the Bears I think that would provoke a VERY strong reaction.
This is actually something I would like to see.
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Typically I run
3 Assaults, 2 Heavies
1 Assault, 2 Heavies, 2 Mediums
1 Heavy, 2 Mediums, 1 Light.
that's per trinary, across the cluster? (since, well, three mech trinaries per) I threw bones on the TW trinary/star weight lists, came up with 7 assaults, 30 heavy, 3 medium and 5 light mechs. Extrapolating yours out, 12 assaults, 15 heavies, 12 mediums, 3 lights...I like that a bit better myself.
Wait a minute, you've only got 4 in your last star. 12/15/15/3 or 12/15/12/6? The latter would give me a decent recon star or two, hrm...
As for where the Dominion is going? Who knows.
Well the devs do obviously, but I was wondering if anyone'd gone through TRO3150 yet and found any clues as to what's happened since 3145 - or if there even is any mention to look for. If there's not, you could save us some time... 8)
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This is actually something I would like to see.
If the bears could ever be summed up its this.
http://www.davidslog.com/85147034020/osoru-slowly-approaching-bear-meta18-the
You don't want to get it to a case of "HAVE LOST VISUAL ON BEAR!!!"
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If the bears could ever be summed up its this.
Those pix are like an evolution from Kodiak to Executioner to Mad Dog to Karhu to Viper and finally to Fire Moth.
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Sorry yeah 2 lights to the Striker star in the Trinary.
The other thing to look at is pairing.
Going back a long time the RATs paired a trooper with a fast mover. Eg a Black Knight and a Champion. A Grizzly and a Thresher. A Mad Dog and a Summoner. A Wyvern IIC and a SHawk IIC 2. A Kingfisher and an Executioner. You get the idea.
The 5th Star member is support. Fire Support, spotter, flanker, as the rest of the Star dictates.
So you end up with 2 pinners, 2 exploiters, and a specialist.
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Those pix are like an evolution from Kodiak to Executioner to Mad Dog to Karhu to Viper and finally to Fire Moth.
Oh god yes....it all makes sense!
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Sorry yeah 2 lights to the Striker star in the Trinary.
The other thing to look at is pairing.
Going back a long time the RATs paired a trooper with a fast mover. Eg a Black Knight and a Champion. A Grizzly and a Thresher. A Mad Dog and a Summoner. A Wyvern IIC and a SHawk IIC 2. A Kingfisher and an Executioner. You get the idea.
The 5th Star member is support. Fire Support, spotter, flanker, as the rest of the Star dictates.
So you end up with 2 pinners, 2 exploiters, and a specialist.
That's really opened an eye to doctrine. I'm too used to IS style fighting with organizing by lance or company for specific jobs, rather than using the star as the total tactical package. It's an interesting way to rethink things...that said, what about other trinary sizes? Heavy trinaries as you specified, how do you prefer to weight Assault, Medium, or Light?
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The Bears have a thing for big mechs, and speedy ones so expect an assault trinary to consist of that, assaults and heavies. Back in 3050 it would have probably been a mix of Gladiator/Executioners and Mad Dogs as they didn't really seem to like the Summoner/Hellbie
By now you'd expect to see a mix of Karhu's Arcas, Kuma's and Executioners as well as probably a Kodiak for the commander, maybe a Grizzly in a second line unit and probably a Bruin or two as well as part of the 'slow' element and probably assigned to the Kodiak as bodyguards.
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And Mad Dogs. Always Mad Dogs.
I would probably avoid Kumas as too niche and limited.
Let's be clear here. The RATs were designed to make you think what is available as much as anything else.
If I was building a front line Battle Star in 3145 I would start with a Karhu and a type of Mad Dog (1 or 3 most likely). Historically I would have looked at a Stormcrow /Nova Viper combo but these days those are thin on the ground so it is probably a pair of solid std mediums. The assault is where you add the twist. Eg an Executioner is a fast and mobile back stabber. A Kingfisher is an up the middle brawler. A Warhawk is fire support. In 3145 the later two are rare but you can imagine how different assaults change things.
In a front line assault Star I am going to run 2 Executioners with the third assault providing the twist. Executioners can operate in nearly any role but the Bear's historical lack of armour meant thay Executioners would usually have to play trooper with a pair of Mad Dogs as fire support. There have always been heavies that can keep up with the Executioners like Timberwolves, and Summoners, and now Karhus so it becomes a judgement call as to how to balance the Star. For example if the 3rd assault is a Viking it might be better to have a trooper heavy.
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Go with a Karhu A if you're going for a Clanner driving it, they won't touch the Prime due to its melee weapon.
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That's all solid frontline stuff, I'm looking more secondline. I'm playing up more of the Kungsarme side of the RasDom, rather than the true Clanner's aspect. So, maybe a trinary commander get a Mad Dog or Karhu, but everyone else gets secondary rides. Kodiak IIs for cluster commanders, certainly.
As it is, just from digging through the RATs, damn near everything jumps, some jump a LOT, and Marauder IIC7s are god's own gift to war crimes. Assault stars of two of those to pin, two Arcases for exploiters, and a Viking on cleanup is one brutally tough unit, and is going to crit the hell out of things. Not the fastest, but one hard to stop berserker charge.
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Hrm for second line/Kungsarmee then you could go with many flavour of Ursiiiisisisisisisis I II and mebbe even some PR's as they make sense for garrison forces being in essence mega police mech's.
The Kuma was built as a unifier for the Clan and Kungsarmee and would be used by both, its also a standard mech and not an omni, and whilst it lacks punch its good in a cavalry role and is faster than a fair few mediums. You could see large numbers of IIC's running around as well as well as those machines produced by Odin for export (there's a Shadow Hawk thats made there, and its used by the DCMS and Dominion, its got a heavy PPC). The big backstop though would be those Marauder IIC's and some Warhammer IIC's.
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Yeah, no kidding. The Arcas is a fine ride, I just wish it didn't look...like it does, shall we say. Same with the Ursus/Ursus II. Beowulf IICs, Viking IICs, the other IICs I can happily roll with aesthetically. And of course there's the classic and gorgeous Mad Dog...
Statswise, Mad IIC 7 and Whammy IIC 6 are both fantastic. The latter makes a great holepuncher, the former bats cleanup, and the Rifleman IIC 8 joins in the fun in heavy stars. Bruins also bring the same weapon set, and it's just...delicious. What makes me giggle is seeding a Hunchback IIC into a star with those. It really gives me plans for how to fit out proper RasDom Mad Dog and Karhu omni designs.
I see the Arcas in the same line as those, with the heavy energy weapons backed up by a big barrage of SSRMs, I just...can't stand the look. Maybe if i win the lottery I'll hire Shimmy to design an Arcas III with the same stats as the others, lol.
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Have a Trinary builder (based on TW with FM:WC CGB Weight bonuses).
And a review.
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Okay, I'd love to know more about the Trinary Builder. Just how do I use it, exactly?
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Go to the first tab. Select an empty cell. Refresh. Del in Excel or Backspace in Open Office will do it.
And it will roll a Trinary for you based on the FM3145 RATs with a +1 weight bonus. Frontline, second line, tanks, BA and Aerospace.
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I find the Arcas very Smechsy. One of my favorite illustrations of it is it on i think a sand dune with a cape/hood.
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the arcas looks ok, the grizzly, new kodiak, Vulture 4 ect.
Never cared for the Kuma, Ursus.
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I like the Ursus, keeps the Skull theme. The Kuma? it's as ugly as it is a bad mech.
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The Kuma's alright its just very...plain and 'humanoid mech is humanoid'. The Arcas is an amazingly sexy machine, the art of it on the snow/sand with its cape, very nice, the damn things even got ice cleets on its feet! I'm not really a fan of the Ursisisisisisisisiiissis looks, the original looks like it fled a manga, the II looks made of play-doh. Sure I can understand some stylizing but those two take it a tad too far.
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Looks like we only got one thing in the new XTRO.
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Looks like we only got one thing in the new XTRO.
I'm not disappointed with it, though.
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Looks like we only got one thing in the new XTRO.
Oh and what a thing of Ghost Beary Awesomeness.
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Wolves scored too. Arguably the Horses as well.
In all three cases its the implications rather than the kit.
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Before this XTRO, I thought there was no way that the Ghost Bears could be interested in making a play for Terra, much less that they'd have the ability to get into position for it.
Now, I'm not so sure.
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Wolves scored too. Arguably the Horses as well.
In all three cases its the implications rather than the kit.
Seems several clans reinvented their scientist caste, now with IS proportions.
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Before this XTRO, I thought there was no way that the Ghost Bears could be interested in making a play for Terra, much less that they'd have the ability to get into position for it.
Now, I'm not so sure.
I just want to see it ram Malvina's warship like a freight train through a pickup truck. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOONK.
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well now we know what was being whispered about in our shipyards. 20!!!!!!! DOCKING COLLARS!! *runs around screaming like someone said the secret word of the day* the fact the Ravens might be getting in on the act is pretty awesome too.
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I think i've found the Leviathan III's theme song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLl5YjiIpJM
Lyrics.
And so the carnage has begun
no hiding place for anyone
no quarter given or none taken in the bloodiest of all battles
the war to end all wars is here
the air is filled with heavy fear
Humanity is disappearing suffering as millions see slaughter
If there's no ending to this fight
eternal darkness is our plight
the darkest hour is upon us dying on the edge of destruction
multitudes will fall in the end its all universal
tragedy befalling the end of mankind
Gods cannot help us then no one can save us if
no one can save is then we
will be gone for all time
the - end - is - here - the - end - is - here - the - end - is - NOW
Re the Bears actions in 3150 onwards, I still think that basically they will not do much save defend themselves against raids and the like, but if they are pushed too hard the Bears will do their typical HUGE over-reaction and push back very very hard, instead of just punching those poking them to go 'Stop' they will not stop punching and kicking until who ever poked them one time too many is in dire need of a hospital.
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Nope
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QgutpNRMgn4 (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QgutpNRMgn4)
I expecting affirmation from Weirdo in seconds.
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Nope
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QgutpNRMgn4 (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QgutpNRMgn4)
I expecting affirmation from Weirdo in seconds.
Neg!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bJO8ot93qY
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I was about to comment how there's a new Leviathan on the board.... An now your telling me it's ours? I about had a heart attack at work here!
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I was about to comment how there's a new Leviathan on the board.... An now your telling me it's ours? I about had a heart attack at work here!
Indeed, we don't know her name or if she's completed yet but the Leviathan III is very much a Dominion vessel.
(http://orig03.deviantart.net/b6df/f/2013/053/5/b/leviathan_warship_by_alderfek-d5vtec7.jpg)
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well now we know what was being whispered about in our shipyards. 20!!!!!!! DOCKING COLLARS!! *runs around screaming like someone said the secret word of the day* the fact the Ravens might be getting in on the act is pretty awesome too.
She's going to be a beautiful, beautiful star soon, I fear...
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She's going to be a beautiful, beautiful star soon, I fear...
You know..that makes sense, the republic likes to do false flags. What if they blew the ship up or badly damaged it under construction and then pinned the blame on someone else. The Bears would go RAWR.
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You know..that makes sense, the republic likes to do false flags. What if they blew the ship up or badly damaged it under construction and then pinned the blame on someone else. The Bears would go RAWR.
As long as they pin the blame on the Combine and not Clan Jade Falcon.
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As long as they pin the blame on the Combine and not Clan Jade Falcon.
Something tells me that's what they'd do. Pin it on the combine, engage troll face, step back and watch. The DCMS would have to halt any offensive into Davion space due to Clan forces spilling over their borders and you can bet that the Raven's would join in the kicking as well.
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I just always like the idea of the Ghost Bears and Snow Ravens teaming up. If the conjecture is correct, and the Quatre Belle construction is connected to the Leviathan III somehow, then I would hazard a guess that the Ghost Bears have ordered a big bunch of Snow Raven aerospace fighters for use with their new Battlestar.
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In broard terms the Ravens build Baskirs, Wusun, and Sabutai.
We build Sulla, Ostrogoth, and Jengiz.
The Ravens have 15 aero regiments and 17 Clusters.
We have 50 Clusters requiring air support. Our navy requirements are probably bigger too. Seriously not everything is WarShips.
And the fluff says planning started decades ago so the ASF probably already exist. The Ravens are most likely technical support. They probably can't afford to play with new WarShips or Direct Interface given their boots on the ground problems in FM3145.
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We have 50 Clusters requiring air support. Our navy requirements are probably bigger too. Seriously not everything is WarShips.
That's one of the things I think about often. We have so many JumpShips running around at this point, carrying Aesirs, Vanirs, and a whole mess of other stuff that we've been building this whole time. CGB might have the best equipped Navy of anybody.
Also, they just updated the XTRO to have the Leviathan III's Record Sheet!
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And now that I take a closer look at the Record Sheet, I think they're making a joke.
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Navies are one of those things that grow at the speed of plot and are ignored as needed. We are never going to get a hard number but neither is anybody else.
The whole civilian market makes the Dominion's JumpShip questions more interested.
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And now that I take a closer look at the Record Sheet, I think they're making a joke.
Can I download an updated version or would I have to buy it again?
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Can I download an updated version or would I have to buy it again?
I got an email from BattleCorps telling me about the updated file.
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I got an email from BattleCorps telling me about the updated file.
Same here although from Drive Through RPG.
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And now that I take a closer look at the Record Sheet, I think they're making a joke.
What joke?
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Well, the tonnage, thrust, DS and fighter capacities are not shown, just has XX's there. But the real joke is the cost: 'Seriously, No.' :D :D :D
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I wonder now, with the Skinwalker. Maybe the Bears could turn the Kungsarme into the Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare.
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That would be
Tyrthe Watch.
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I just want to see it ram Malvina's warship like a freight train through a pickup truck. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOONK.
Something like this?
https://youtu.be/XspBNSyvFDk?t=4m47s
Have to admit, I was never a fan of the loaf-of-bread look.
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Something like this?
https://youtu.be/XspBNSyvFDk?t=4m47s
Have to admit, I was never a fan of the loaf-of-bread look.
Like, hell. THAT. Seriously, when you have a warship that's carved from an asteroid made of pure armor, Davion piloting techniques work.
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Like, hell. THAT. Seriously, when you have a warship that's carved from an asteroid made of pure armor, Davion piloting techniques work.
Or there's this version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpP7gMPzC78
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So the Ghost Bears get talked out of using a Watchdog CEWS/C3i pairing around the time of the Second Combine-Dominion War, but then fifty years later, most of the Council of Six Clans are now caught using Machina Domini interface technology.
Sounds to me like the Ghost Bears were actually first on the scene with an idea for a change.
Makes me wonder two things: 1. Will we see the Dominion re-starting their abandoned C3i program? 2. Or, will they just make a deal with the Snow Ravens to get the new interface technology (assuming that they don't already have it right now anyway)?
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You realize we have owned the Parash factory since before 3130? We were fighting the Interface Parashes. We have been beside the Horses as long as the Wolves. The chances of us not having the technology are very low.
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Yeah, I agree. It's pretty low, but I'm wondering if the Ghost Bears would just as soon revive the C3i project rather than go the interface cockpit route. The C3i for some reason feels more Bearish than the interface.
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So the Ghost Bears get talked out of using a Watchdog CEWS/C3i pairing around the time of the Second Combine-Dominion War, but then fifty years later, most of the Council of Six Clans are now caught using Machina Domini interface technology.
Sounds to me like the Ghost Bears were actually first on the scene with an idea for a change.
Makes me wonder two things: 1. Will we see the Dominion re-starting their abandoned C3i program? 2. Or, will they just make a deal with the Snow Ravens to get the new interface technology (assuming that they don't already have it right now anyway)?
Interface tech simply seems too much of a step for the Bears to take, whilst C3i makes sense for them, working as a team as a 'pack' to bring down prey and all that malarky with assorted hunting references thrown in there. But yeah, C3i for them makes more sense than the admittedly radical interface tech, although they might adopt something not so radical if they can perhaps preserve a Mechwarrior's life?
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Interface tech simply seems too much of a step for the Bears to take, whilst C3i makes sense for them, working as a team as a 'pack' to bring down prey and all that malarky with assorted hunting references thrown in there. But yeah, C3i for them makes more sense than the admittedly radical interface tech, although they might adopt something not so radical if they can perhaps preserve a Mechwarrior's life?
I actually think that the Interface experiments originated with the Bears (the Horses probably just acquired it from them), since they had the most interaction against the WOB out of all the Clans. The Bears were already experimenting with C3i and mixed Tech, so if they captured Interface technology I could see them experimenting with that too, and for the Horses to stumble across those experiments during one of their raids against the Dominion and making the technology their own in the form of the Parash. Personally I think it fits with the Bear mindset of "we can build it bigger" in that since they don't have Protomechs (because they lack the small statured big headed Aerospace phenotype), why not design something that is like a Protomech, but bigger and can actually utilize existing Mechwarrior/Elemental sized phenotypes? I wouldn't be surprised if in the future the Bears unvieled a Light or Medium BA sized Interface Suit that fits into a special 5 ton Interface Cockpit, in fact I actually designed such a thing a few years ago when the Interface cockpit first came out.
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No, it definitely originates with the Horses; the fluff about it in IO Beta is explicit on that point.
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No, it definitely originates with the Horses; the fluff about it in IO Beta is explicit on that point.
The following qouote: "Clan Hell’s Horses appears to be the originator of this horror, which we now believe debuted on the Parash.", leaves the way open for them to later retcon it to say something like "it was the Bears, who were doing experiments with mixed tech, that were actually the first to experiment with Interface technology from samples they captured from their Trial of Annihilation against the WOB. I was only after a Hells Horses raid on one of their experimental facilities that the technology spread to the Horses, who promptly took the technology beyond the experimental stage and onto the prototype stage with their Parash Battlemech."
Personally I think it makes more sense for the Bears to have been doing experiments on it first thanks to their expossure to the WOB, and with their actual canon instances of doing mixed tech experiments. Not trying to minimize what the Horses did, but how exactly could they have gotten their hands on the technology to begin with since they didn't really get exposed much to the WOB if at all. It makes more sense for them to have gotten it from the Bears, who got it from the WOB etc.
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The Eleventh Mechanized Cavalry Cluster fought in Operation SCOUR, and fought on Mars during the fall of Terra at the end of the Jihad. Given that the Master's hideout, ROM's training center, and one of the primary Celestial factories were all on Mars, there's adequate reason to believe that one or more Gestalts were present and the Horses salvaged one. The R&D start date given in IO Beta is 3082, which is pretty much what you'd expect if they'd salvaged some of the tech on Mars in '79 and sent it back to the Horse OZ. If anything, given that the Bears were famous for utterly annihilating anything Blakist they came across, and no Bear ground forces participated in the assault on the Terran system, it's less likely that the Bears got their hands on any working copies of the tech.
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Considering how rare E.I is amongst the Bears (1 in 5 +/- in clans that favour it), remember how we melted down anything that was touched by the Shadow Divisions, there is next to no chance it originated with us.
Not to mention that the modified experimental Parash's we fought in 3086 seemed to have run away as soon as they were hit, chances of salvage are slim and at that time what do you think we would have done to the Horses if we found WoB technology, especially Shadow Division WoB technology?
More interestingly ARTS small craft bays...
will we be seeing clan drone fighters and dropships?
maybe that's the link between us and the Ravens?
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ARTS is automated repair and maintenance. No drones required.
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It is my universe and i will have drones :D
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Hmm. The Leviathan III has a HPG.
I wonder if it works :)
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Hmm. The Leviathan III has a HPG.
Hyper-Panic Generator? Yeah, it works.
You realize we have owned the Parash factory since before 3130? We were fighting the Interface Parashes. We have been beside the Horses as long as the Wolves. The chances of us not having the technology are very low.
True, but the mention of the Bears' hate-on for the MD tech is worth note, and the dated references are 40 years before that date. Maybe it was a short experimental production run that didn't last long, and the factory was retooled for regular Parashes.
Not that I'm trying to argue with you over what's canon and not, just trying to reconcile both data points. You're the yellow Battlemaster! ;D That said, I'm not gonna lie, I'd love to see the Dominion - especially half a century removed from the Jihad - start adapting some of the tech like the Wolves did. That Skinwalker deserves a Kodiak-themed design...might have to throw one onto the design forum.
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Well we are the only Clan really making use of Stealth BA.
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Well, the tonnage, thrust, DS and fighter capacities are not shown, just has XX's there. But the real joke is the cost: 'Seriously, No.' :D :D :D
I think that was more a matter of how the RS was generated. I think everything except the cost should be available on the fluff page for the Lev III
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What would be the typical Ghost bear Cluster make up at this point? (divided into front and other lines.)
The 3050-70ish era unit was
Cmd Trinary* (Personally I prefer cmd units that are not part of a lower unit...)
Mech Trinary*
Mech Trinary*
Elemental Binary*
Fighter Binary*
*one or more of these could be replaced with Supernovas, not to mention the Binarys could be replaced with Trinarys and vice versa
Phalanx Units seem to replace one or more of the Mech units with Tanks, and are more orientated as defense units.
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3145. 3130 was smaller.
Cmd Trinary* (Personally I prefer cmd units that are not part of a lower unit...)
Mech Trinary*
Mech Trinary*
Elemental Binary*
Fighter Binary*
*one or more of these could be replaced with Supernovas, not to mention the Binarys could be replaced with Trinarys and vice versa
That is was and remains the ideal.
Unfortunately a lack of light and medium OmniMechs messed with it so the Elemental Binary was replaced in many Clusters with a Transport Supernova. Of course that is a very loose term. After all you only need 10 Tyr to shift 50 BA, and it isn't specified if it is a Binary or Trinary based Supernova. So it becomes a convenient place to administratively hide all manner of tanks from VTOLs to Hueys. This formation remains in use with the Kungsarme Clusters and several second line Galaxies.
Transport Supernovas were also in use in front line formations through the antebellum though probably Binary sized. Alpha is probably the only one that remained pure.
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We hold New Oslo. Should we be building Balius given we already build Mad Dog IIIs and Karhus?
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We hold New Oslo. Should we be building Balius given we already build Mad Dog IIIs and Karhus?
Naw. Not so much because the Balius overlaps with the Mad Dog III or the Karhu, but because it sucks so much.
I'd say start over and make a clean-sheet Bear quad.
Otherwise convert the Balius and/or the Black Hawk (Standard) lines at Manufacturing Site #3 to Stormcrows (or Skinwalkers?).
Also reinvent the Viper (optimize at 7/11/7 speed, add TSM?) by converting the Parash and/or Black Hawk (Standard) lines.
And develop a hardened, more survivable Fire Moth from the Locust IIC line.
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What, no love for the Mighty Buttlaser of Doom? Seriously though, I agree pretty much across the board. RasDom's got some great rides, though a proper Dire Moth would be nice as a BA transport, especially for the newer bigger battlesuits out there. Rogue Bear and Corona points need some speedy love, and the idea of Rogue Bear-HR teams hunting soft targets with a fast, high-firepower light 'mech to back them up is perfect Kungsarme territory.
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a proper Dire Moth would be nice as a BA transport
Dire... Moth? heh!
Fund it!
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Godzilla already fought it.
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Dire... Moth? heh!
Fund it!
Sounds like a design challenge to me!
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Naw. Not so much because the Balius overlaps with the Mad Dog III or the Karhu, but because it sucks so much.
I'd say start over and make a clean-sheet Bear quad.
Otherwise convert the Balius and/or the Black Hawk (Standard) lines at Manufacturing Site #3 to Stormcrows (or Skinwalkers?).
Also reinvent the Viper (optimize at 7/11/7 speed, add TSM?) by converting the Parash and/or Black Hawk (Standard) lines.
And develop a hardened, more survivable Fire Moth from the Locust IIC line.
Of course who owns the factory and who geta the product are two different things with Trials in play.
The Horses could have a long standing Trial enforced order for Balius.
Or the Bears might not have the right to build any of these Mechs despite owning the factory.
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Of course who owns the factory and who geta the product are two different things with Trials in play.
The Horses could have a long standing Trial enforced order for Balius.
Or the Bears might not have the right to build any of these Mechs despite owning the factory.
Not to mention the Balius was originally assembled by hand, so any "factory" they had could have been moved prior to taking New Oslo without our knowledge. Unless I missed it somewhere in the existing books.
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Typically I run
3 Assaults, 2 Heavies
1 Assault, 2 Heavies, 2 Mediums
1 Heavy, 2 Mediums, 1 Light.
What about something like the 357th Assault Cluster? Been reading up on 3145 some more, and the whole Vega situation, I kind of like that 'hanging out in the middle of a battlefield trying to keep order' situation they were in until the absorption of the protectorate. I imagine they'd keep their general format for weight classes, so I do wonder how you'd break down an assault cluster by weight - one Striker Trinary like you have there, and then two Assault Trinaries with...say:
3 Assaults, 2 Heavies
2 Assault, 2 Heavies, 1 Mediums
2 Assault, 2 Heavies, 1 Mediums
for the rest? First star, slip in fast assaults with slower gunboat heavies, the second and third star run slower gunboat assaults with the heavies as a maneuver force and the mediums as fast infielders?
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These are the big boys in Invading Clans
304TH ASSAULT CLUSTER
THE HOWLING BEARS
Star Colonel Paul Vishio
Supernova Trinary Command (Star Captain Dillan Vong)
Alpha, Bravo and Charlie Command Stars (5 OmniMechs, 5 Elemental Points each)
321 st Assault Trinary (Star Captain Vegara Ortiz)
Alpha, Bravo and Charlie Assault Stars (5 OmniMechs each)
14th Assault Supernova (Star Captain Bernard Bazso)
Alpha, Bravo and Charlie Assault Stars (5 OmniMechs, 5 Elemental Points each)
72nd Assault Tri nary (Star Captain Edwin Bekker)
Alpha, Bravo and Charlie Assault Stars (5 OmniMechs each)
1st Elemental Support Binary (Star Captain Ossin Vong)
Alpha and Bravo Elemental Stars (5 Elemental Points each)
332ND ASSAULT CLUSTER
THE IOWA BLACKLANCERS
Star Colonel Seija Harlow
Trinary Command (Star Captain Gosvoda Nuyriev)
Alpha, Bravo and Charlie Command Stars (5 OmniMechs each) Tango Fighter Support Star (10 Fighters)
469th Assault Trinary (Star Captain Pinter Hall)
Alpha and Bravo Assault Stars (5 OmniMechs each) Charlie Elemental Star (5 Elemental Points)
2133rd Striker Trinary (Star Captain Jillian Snuka)
Alpha, Bravo and.Charlie Striker Stars (5 OmniMechs each)
23rd Elemental Support Binary (Star Captain Alan Kabrinski)
Alpha and Bravo Elemental Stars (5 Elemental Points each)
Delta Fighter Trinary (Star Captain Lucien Bourjon)
Alpha, Bravo and Charlie Fighter Stars (1 0 Fighters each)
8TH BEAR CUIRASSIERS
THE BLINDING DRIVE
Star Colonel Dana Vishio
Trinary Command (Star Captain Trudy Devon)
Alpha, Bravo and Charlie Command Stars (10 Fighters each)
286th Assault Tri nary (Star Captain Dimon Bekker)
Alpha, Bravo and Charlie Assault Stars (5 OmniMechs each)
90th Striker Trinary (Star Captain Della Ortiz)
Alpha, Bravo and Charlie Striker Stars (5 OmniMechs each)
56th Elemental Support Trinary (Star Captain Tamm Hakimi)
Alpha, Bravo Charlie Elemental Stars (5 Elemental Points each)
47th Fighter Binary (Star Captain Endo Kabrinski)
Alpha and Bravo Fighter Stars (10 Fighters each)
To summarize,
304TH ASSAULT CLUSTER
So 9 Assault Stars, 3 Command Stars, and 8 Elemental Stars
332ND ASSAULT CLUSTER
2 Assault Stars, 3 Command Stars, 3 Striker Stars, 3 Elemental Stars, 4 ASF Stars
8TH BEAR CUIRASSIERS
3 Assault Stars, 3 Striker Stars, 3 Elemental Stars, 5 ASF Stars
I am going to assume the Command Stars are Battle Stars.
So Assault Clusters aren't that heavy. They just have a few Assault Stars ('Mech, ASF etc) to provide bite.
The 357th could be anything. It started the Vega campaign under strength due to the antebellum and may have been relying on tanks for firepower. I don't have the novel to know. They were certainly using Constables rather than Elementals. I suspect until 3145 they would have been happy with what they could get.
After then? Well there is a strong element of players here who consider Omega to be traitors with good reason. The 357th may well be facing a case of getting what they are given and having to like it.
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Interesting POV. And, I admit I haven't read a BT novel since...uh...before FASA shut down. It's been a while. I've read up on what happened in Vega, and the Omega Galaxy's effective defection and then reabsorption, but I noted that in FM3145 that after 3137 they use normal RD RATs, so it seems their supply problem has been mostly fixed. Otherwise, it's just 'throw bones on the random tables and see what happens' I take it?
Gonna make star organization fun with that '2 kuritan, 2 raf, 1 rasdom per star' rule.
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These are the big boys in Invading Clans
To summarize,
...
So Assault Clusters aren't that heavy. They just have a few Assault Stars ('Mech, ASF etc) to provide bite.
just to remind everyone (and I'm sure Jellico always has this in mind), Bear Clusters are generally heavier than their counterparts in other Clans to begin with, so saying Bear Assault Clusters aren't that heavy is relative
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Also you need to be smart. Eg. When I suggest 1 heavy, 2 mediums, and 2 lights the heavy would be a Mad Dog or Stormcrow rather than a Timberwolf.
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Stormcrow's a medium.
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I recognized that as I posted.
The Stormcrow and Mad Dog fill the medium trooper role. Yes we say that all the time. The point is look at what the rest of the Star is doing. If it is clearly a Striker Star don't use a slow Mech.
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Okay. Here are some idealised Stars from various eras. Note. Idealised. Move equipment up from previous eras for battle damage etc.
Eg, post 3060 the PGCs were running a large % of Star League tech as the Bear Regulars lost their OmniMechs to the Frontline Clusters post Tukayyid with the 'Mech factories lost in Leviathan hulls traversing the Exodus route.
Front Line 2820
Assault Star
Assault Assault Assault Heavy Heavy
Annihilator King Crab Thug Black Knight Champion
Battle Star
Assault Heavy Heavy Medium Medium
Thug Black Knight Champion Sentinel Wyvern
Striker Star
Heavy Medium Medium Light Light
Champion Crab Sentinal Thorn Hermes
Front Line 3050
Assault Star
Assault Assault Assault Heavy Heavy
Executioner Warhawk Kingfisher Mad Dog Mad Dog
Battle Star
Assault Heavy Heavy Medium Medium
Executioner Summoner Mad Dog Nova Viper
Striker Star
Heavy Medium Medium Light Light
Mad Dog Storm Crow Viper Adder Firemoth
Second Line 3050
Assault Star
Assault Assault Assault Heavy Heavy
Kodiak Kodiak Supernova Grizzly Glass Spider
Battle Star
Assault Heavy Heavy Medium Medium
Kodiak Grizzly Thresher Shadowhawk IIC2 Wyvern IIC
Striker Star
Heavy Medium Medium Light Light
Thresher Shadowhawk IIC2 Shadowhawk IIC2 Horned Owl Jenner IIC
Front Line 3067
Assault Star
Assault Assault Assault Heavy Heavy
Executioner Warhawk Kingfisher Mad Dog Mad Dog
Battle Star
Assault Heavy Heavy Medium Medium
Executioner Summoner Mad Dog Nova Viper
Striker Star
Heavy Medium Medium Light Light
Mad Dog Storm Crow Viper Adder Firemoth
Second Line 3067
Assault Star
Assault Assault Assault Heavy Heavy
Kodiak Kodiak Supernova Grizzly Arcas
Battle Star
Assault Heavy Heavy Medium Medium
Kodiak Grizzly Arcas Clint IIC Ursus
Striker Star
Heavy Medium Medium Light Light
Arcas Shadowhawk IIC2 Clint IIC Horned Owl Jenner IIC
Front Line 3085
Assault Star
Assault Assault Assault Heavy Heavy
Executioner Executioner Kingfisher Mad Dog Mad Dog
Battle Star
Assault Heavy Heavy Medium Medium
Executioner Karhu Mad Dog Nova Viper
Striker Star
Heavy Medium Medium Light Light
Karhu Storm Crow Viper Adder Firemoth
Second Line 3085
Assault Star
Assault Assault Assault Heavy Heavy
Kodiak Marauder IIC 4 Bruin Grizzly Arcas
Battle Star
Assault Heavy Heavy Medium Medium
Kodiak Grizzly Arcas Ursus II Ursus
Striker Star
Heavy Medium Medium Light Light
Arcas Clint IIC SHD-12C Shadowhawk Bear Cub Locust IIC
Front Line 3140
Assault Star
Assault Assault Assault Heavy Heavy
Executioner Executioner Kodiak Mad Dog Mk III Mad Dog Mk III
Battle Star
Assault Heavy Heavy Medium Medium
Executioner Karhu Mad Dog Mk IV Mongrel Ursus
Striker Star
Heavy Medium Medium Light Light
Karhu Storm Crow Beowulf IIC Locust IIC 8 Parash
Second Line 3140
Assault Star
Assault Assault Assault Heavy Heavy
Kodiak Marauder IIC 7 Night Wolf Arcas Mad Dog
Battle Star
Assault Heavy Heavy Medium Medium
Bruin Arcas Mad Dog Ursus II SHD-12C Shadowhawk
Striker Star
Heavy Medium Medium Light Light
Kuma Clint IIC SHD-12C Shadowhawk Bear Cub Locust IIC 8
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Four-Point stars in some of those secondline units?
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Blasted formatting. Fixed.
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Pardon me for bothering you all, on Thanksgiving no less, but I have a few questions I've not seen answered in anything I've read thus far about the Rasalhague Dominion (which, admittedly, doesn't include any relevant sourcebooks; I'm primarily going off Touring the Stars, Sarna, and hearsay)...
I'm 97% certain that, under unified RasDom rule, Rasalhague civilians have full use of their surnames, but what about the Ghost Bear civilians who were moved to the Sphere? Were they granted surnames of their own at some point? Are they assumed to have intermarried sufficiently with the Sphere-native civilians to have picked up their surnames (assuming the children of Sphere/Clan civilian pairings would be allowed to use the name of their Spheroid parent)? Would there still be any single-name civilians of pure Clan heritage around in the mid-3100s "present"?
How about Rasalhague natives who trial into the military? Would they lose the use of their surnames on becoming freeborn warriors? Might there be some kind of Bloodname-analogue trial in which they could potentially re-earn their names? Or would they only be able to resume the use of their surnames on retirement from the military?
Finally, is there any lasting distinction between Rasalhague-native freeborn warriors and Clan-native freeborn warriors? Would they generally be assigned to different Galaxies? Are the Rasalhague-native warriors considered to be Clan in the same way that bondsmen who earned their way into warrior-hood were/are considered to be Clan?
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I imagine the rasalhague civilians kept their surnames, though I doubt they get used for clan business/dealing with someone directly in the clan. I doubt that the lower caste members of the clans suddenly took up surnames though. I imagine that if you step up to being a clan warrior, you either don't use one, or use the honor name of "Ghost Bear" to show your pride at being deemed worthy. No trial to achieve a bloodname unless you do something that merits founding a corresponding bloodline/bloodhouse.
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On the other hand, native sphereoids in the Dominion's touman are using their own familiy names.. as evidenced by some of the officers listed in Fm3145.
I'd imagine both populations in the Dominion recognize both the significances of and differences beween family names and bloodnames.
I'd also imagine that given the hundreds of billions of sphereoids in the Dominion, there have to be lots of them that happen to have a family name that matches a bloodname. I'd imagine that even in those cases the sphereoid isn't perceived as trying to usurp a title reseved for the elite of the warrior class.
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On the other hand, native sphereoids in the Dominion's touman are using their own familiy names.. as evidenced by some of the officers listed in Fm3145.
I'd imagine both populations in the Dominion recognize both the significances of and differences beween family names and bloodnames.
I'd also imagine that given the hundreds of billions of sphereoids in the Dominion, there have to be lots of them that happen to have a family name that matches a bloodname. I'd imagine that even in those cases the sphereoid isn't perceived as trying to usurp a title reseved for the elite of the warrior class.
regarding the native Rasalhagians in the touman using their own surnames...we know the RasDom has created new Bloodnames, so for all we know these are those new names and no native Rasalhagian in the touman uses a surname except those with these new Bloodnames...just a possibility
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regarding the native Rasalhagians in the touman using their own surnames...we know the RasDom has created new Bloodnames, so for all we know these are those new names and no native Rasalhagian in the touman uses a surname except those with these new Bloodnames...just a possibility
Or maybe in the official documents its all spelt as one word, ie Star Commander Sven Eriksson is spelled as "SvenEriksson", so technically he only has "one" name :), and you can tell he was unbloodnamed and/or a freeborn, but in practice (ie outside of the official record keeping) they probably just spell it normally with the space between the name and surname (especially if he's posted to one of the Kungsarme descended Galaxies instead of the Ghost Bear ones).
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I doubt that the lower caste members of the clans suddenly took up surnames though.
I would be verrrry interested in a detailed look at how the Ghost Bear civilians are adapting to life in the Inner Sphere. Touring the Stars indicated that caste boundaries have been abolished outside the warrior phenotypes (although it also indicates that the warriors designated new "warrior-tech" and "warrior-scientist" castes to preserve and maintain their breeding program; at least some of the first generation of those castes could've been skilled civilian-caste workers quietly promoted to warrior because the alternative was losing their necessary skills), so they have theoretical access to significantly broader freedoms than they had under Clan rule. I imagine some have asserted and reveled in those freedoms, but there's inevitably a hardline Clan contingent tenaciously sticking to more Clanlike worlds and traditions. We've seen ethnically Rasalhague citizens struggling to adapt to living alongside their Clan neighbors, it'd be fun to see the inverse as well.
I'd also be interested in knowing if anyone, even at the level of scattered individual families, might've tracked any Clan civilian lineages with enough accuracy to know what a given freeborn person's surname would've been, if it hadn't been stripped at the founding of the Clans, but that's a highly speculative and off-topic matter.
Or maybe in the official documents its all spelt as one word, ie Star Commander Sven Eriksson is spelled as "SvenEriksson", so technically he only has "one" name :), and you can tell he was unbloodnamed and/or a freeborn, but in practice (ie outside of the official record keeping) they probably just spell it normally with the space between the name and surname (especially if he's posted to one of the Kungsarme descended Galaxies instead of the Ghost Bear ones).
Heheh, this idea I like.
T'would also be interesting to see non-Bloodnamed trueborn warriors beginning to wear their lack of a surname beyond "Ghost Bear" as its own mark of honor, firmly asserting their trueborn origin in the midst of an increasingly Spheroid nation. Better no name at all than a freebirth name, quiaff?
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we know the RasDom has created new Bloodnames
Source? I'd love to know where this is from and maybe see if I can slip some unofficial ones in myself.
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Source? I'd love to know where this is from and maybe see if I can slip some unofficial ones in myself.
Sarna cites the profile of Lars Magnusson in Era Report: 3145 as the source of the information that they created a Magnusson bloodname to honor Ragnar Magnusson. I can't personally point you toward any others, though I do recall that the named RasDom pilots in Age of Destruction all had very Scandinavian-sounding names; some of them could theoretically have been bearers of new bloodnames. Might be worth taking a look through those profiles as well.
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Darn, got beaten mid reply! But yeah they made a Magnusson bloodname and apparently the rest of the clans were too busy during the jihad to stop and say "wait a minute!"
So its possible the new "names" we're seeing are new bloodnames, or just freebirths allowed to retain theirs. Given the Current Khan is conservative, I'm putting my money on them having new bloodnames. I'm also making use of the "whatever works in your game" motto since as far as i know theres no official ruling on it.
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Well, without a game, campaign, GM, or other players here I'm kind of in a whatever-goes state. So lacking any other constraints I'll roll with canon stuff.
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So I'm working up an AU and I need names for some CGB ships besides what we already have.
Have about a dozen Corvettes and a dozen other ships to name including a Leviathan III
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So I'm working up an AU and I need names for some CGB ships besides what we already have.
Have about a dozen Corvettes and a dozen other ships to name including a Leviathan III
Hrm...
CGB Thunderchild (capital ship for sure)
CGB Guiding Star
CGB Ice Walker
CGB Simlidon
CGB Den Mother
CGB Borealis
CGB Wojtek (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojtek_(bear))
CGB Polaris
Just some I could think of off the top of my head :)
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Kuma Arashi ("Bear Storm" in Japanese, and the title of a novel and play about a real string of bear attacks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sankebetsu_brown_bear_incident) that occurred in Japan in 1915) might fit as a (rather obscure, admittedly) taunt toward the Draconis Combine. ;)
(Yurikuma Arashi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yurikuma_Arashi), on the other hand, only applies if the WarShip has an all-female crew...)
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Kuma Arashi ("Bear Storm" in Japanese, and the title of a novel and play about a real string of bear attacks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sankebetsu_brown_bear_incident) that occurred in Japan in 1915) might fit as a (rather obscure, admittedly) taunt toward the Draconis Combine. ;)
(Yurikuma Arashi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yurikuma_Arashi), on the other hand, only applies if the WarShip has an all-female crew...)
both are good for Corvettes or any other quick strikers
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Thanks for a couple names keep them coming if you got em: Kuma Arashi sounds perfect for one of my captured DCMS ships
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Some rejected CGB naval vessel names:
Misha's Tutu
Corbinian's Porter
Smokey's Hat
Baloo's Nessecity
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Hm, art, including music, is a major thing. Would a RasDom mechwarrior star perhaps put a band together called the Bearnaked Ladies?
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I need a hand(paw) with understanding some TO&E(Touman):
What is the difference between Guard, Cuirassier, and Chevalier clusters besides fancy frontline naming?
How do they differ from Assault, Battle, or Striker clusters?
Any notable specialazations regarding tactics or formations?
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I don't believe there is any specific rule for any type of unit, but I'd generally go by what the name means, so a Guard Cluster (as seen in canon) is a mostly defence-role unit, etc...
a cuirassier is a type of cavalry
a chevalier is a knight
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The Invading Clans sourcebook identified the composition/doctrine of lots of the Clans' particular, uniquely named formation types.
I'm not at home with my books at the moment but I'll bet there's an explanation in that book for what the Bears mean by those three types.
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Unfortunately there isn't one in FM:WC, but that's fine. I'd love to see the breakdown myself, just like everyone's probably got their fill of my pestering about this very same thing :D
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All I remember is the Bear Guards Clusters are supposedly the elite of the Touman and being assigned to one is prestigious and a ark of honor.
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All I remember is the Bear Guards Clusters are supposedly the elite of the Touman and being assigned to one is prestigious and a ark of honor.
If you do a google search on Cuirassier its a Heavy Cavalry unit, Chevalier is a Knight, so its a "heavy" formation as well (since Knights normally wear heavy armor), Guards are usually elite formations of an army, so they're supposed to be made up of the best of the best in the Touman. Upon researching, I found out that a subset of the Guard designation is called a "Grenadier", a "Heavy Guard" unit, and they're known to wear bearskin hats. It would seem to be a perfect designation for a Bear unit exclusively made up of Clawed warriors (wearing bearskin hats made up from the skin of a Ghost Bear that they either killed themselves (for extra prestige) or just a regular bearskin if they survived but couldn't bag a Ghost Bear), but alas the Bears don't have them, but here's hoping they start one in the future, especially since the Bears are becoming more conservative again about Clan traditions, so what perfect way than to create a new Ghost Bear "Grenadiers" unit made up entirely of Clawed warriors.
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ah wait, sorry, my bad, I was thinking of the Bear Regulars when I said the Guards Clusters are defensive units
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I already knew that Chevalier and Cuirassier relate to cavalry, what I dont know is if those GB units are just names or are actual cavalry formations. My assumption is that they are, but I dont know for sure and thought it may be detailed in a book I dont have. If they are cavalry, what makes them different from a Striker or Battle cluster, especially in a clan that favors faster mechs?
Do you think CGB would make use of Dragoon formations, to deploy battle armor as a modern equivalent?
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I strongly suspect Cuirassier is heavy aerospace. Have a look at it in Invading Clans.
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I perpetrated some pretty awesome Ghost Bear Battle Armor action in an Alpha Strike 4-player mega battle on Saturday.
250 points per person, I brought a Star each of Rogue Bear, Golem (Support), and Gnome, all Points at Skill 3.
My teammate was a Jade Falcon player who brought a full heavy Star, and we were against a Wolf's Dragoons Assault Lance and a Snow Raven mixed force of 3 Mechs, 3 Sylph and 1 Sabutai. We got to play Defender, and Hidden Unit rules were in effect.
I deployed all of my BA hidden. A Battle Armor Wonderland ensued.
My various units took out three enemy BattleMechs in the first two turns unaided. The Sylph fell shortly after. By the end of turn 5 the enemy team had only their Aerospace Fighter left after my remaining BA units teamed up with the Falcons to take out the remaining Mechs.
The attrition was high, though. I ended the game with only 3 Points of Golem Armor on the table.
Still tons of fun. Going into the game, I was questioned several times about why I brought only Battle Armor. The looks I received from across the table quickly changed after the first turn. Afterwards, a couple of people questioned whether or not I would have been as effective if I didn't deploy hidden, but I pointed out that the attrition rate against the BA would have been a lot lower if the BA was engaged from farther out. All of the BA I took could do 2 (Rogue Bear) or 3 (Golem/Gnome) damage at medium range, so we couldn't pinpoint a distinct advantage to engaging them from farther away, either.
Battle Armor - 1, The Forces of Naysaying - 0
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That's showing them!!. Way go to all Zeta Galaxy on them.
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Hello, just a random newbie stumbling by to say hi and stuffs, hopefully my presence doesn't immediately ruin everything.
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Hello, just a random newbie stumbling by to say hi and stuffs, hopefully my presence doesn't immediately ruin everything.
it ruins the perfect balance of alcohol we had stocked in the cave for each person!! ;)
welcome aboard trothkin :)
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so I finally got to use my ghost bears in a campaign game. So I ended up battling clan wolf, in a near stalemate. On the down shot I took a beating netting a phyrric victory at best. Objectives completed but the beating I took was pretty hard. My heavy star of 2 grizzlies, 1 summoner , a Mad dog, timber wolf, took the brunt of it, but true to ghost bear fashion they severely mauled almost double there number. (dice rolled hot) By the end of the battle I had 5 mechs down between two stars, and 2 destroyed elemental points, everything else sporting heavy damage. running a trinary of 2 mech stars and 1 combined mech and elemental star. On the up shot I captured a Warwolf, and salvaged a madcat. At least I "won" the mission. Now I need a warwolf mini and paint in Ghost bears colors.
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it ruins the perfect balance of alcohol we had stocked in the cave for each person!! ;)
welcome aboard trothkin :)
Thank you, here's to the FRR Ghost Bears :P
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Thank you, here's to the FRR Ghost Bears :P
Hey, we're all good! I suggest the Honey Whiskey, but stay away from the Winter Jack - that shit is nasty. And that comes from someone who drinks Yeager strait.
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Welcome to our cave trothkin! Grab an ale, grab a table, and tell us take of your exploits!
Also well done War: which configs you going to run with?
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Welcome to our cave trothkin! Grab an ale, grab a table, and tell us take of your exploits!
Also well done War: which configs you going to run with?
Well, I haven't really played Battletech at all aside from one 3025 game via megamek, unfortunately, so I don't really have any tales to spin other than the tales of my Crab, Rifleman and some other mech I can't remember punching a bunch of Wasps to death and my tank somehow being the one thing to not take any damage at all.
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heavy star: 2 stock grizzlies, 1 summoner prime, A Madog prime, and timber wolf F.
Striker star: Storm crow A, Viper A, Griffin IIC 4, Loki E, Nova A.
Dragoon star: 1 firemoth Prime, 1 Myst lynx B, Fire mothB, 2 elemental points.
one extra elemental point that rode with the above star.
I wanted to run a mix of omnis and standard mechs. The fluff for this unit "the stray bears", was that a front line, and second line unit got mixed together after the attack by WOB. How I ended up fighting clan wolf who knows, other player had a wolf unit he was dieing to try out. Next weekend it have a mission against WOB militia. No Idea what the actual mission or objectives will be until then.
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Do you have to rework your force from the damage/salvage of the Wolf game, or was that more a test run?
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Do you have to rework your force from the damage/salvage of the Wolf game, or was that more a test run?
No that mission sticks for this campaign.
Honestly we are using warchest so the logistics is fairly easy but the repairs and rearming is dipping deep into my resource pool. The salvaged mechs will be reused, both are heavies so I'm thinking of moving them into my heavy star. Not sure if I will keep them as spares, or go ahead and throw them into battle but its 60 points to gain new clan regular mech warriors, which is still cheaper logistically then buying new mechs. The destroyed mechs 3 of them where total losses, and I had 3 warriors killed. A a few are wounded, which cost 100 points per box to "fix" Everything else is sporting moderate to heavy damage. I need to fill my striker star back up to strength because its my my run in, take scan the objective, or flankers. Which the two salvaged mechs are not fast enough to keep up. I also need to replace my elemental points, thinking of switching them to APGR elemental. Thankfully sense i'm playing as clan I'm not paying the penalties, for using clan tech.
Total loss being center torso destruction.
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But yeah, I don't really have much experience with the tabletop and most of my current experience comes from what I've read up as well as MW4 Mercs and MWO (no, I haven't played MW2 yet, it's rather shameful :'( ), though I've been meaning to start playing around with Megamek soon enough. Idunno, if anyone wants to throw
tomatos advice at the new guy I'd be willing to take it.
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But yeah, I don't really have much experience with the tabletop and most of my current experience comes from what I've read up as well as MW4 Mercs and MWO (no, I haven't played MW2 yet, it's rather shameful :'( ), though I've been meaning to start playing around with Megamek soon enough. Idunno, if anyone wants to throw tomatos advice at the new guy I'd be willing to take it.
everyone starts from somewhere, soon you will learn the love of mini mechs, and beer with friends, while playing tabletop battletech
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so I played alpha strike with my campaign force. Things I learned. Tanks and battle armor are more effective in alpha strike then standard battletech. Anti mech attacks, automatically nets a roll on determining critical hits table, which is AWESOME!!!!! My opponents now live in fear of my dragoon star. ( I'm calling them dragoons because they are infantry that ride into battle on mechs) With alpha strike though you can not crit out tanks with cluster rounds though.
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what loadout do you go with for your Elementals? Laser,Machine gun?
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Flamer is one of the better choices in Alpha Strike.
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Played Alpha Strike this weekend, 250PV. I took:
5x Fire Moth G @ 4x Skill: 3, 1x Skill: 2
5x Gnome [Bearhunter] @ 5x Skill: 3
Solitaire @ (Skill: 2)
PV total: 249
It was received with, um, mixed feelings.
Using Evasion movement when I didn't win initiative, or when I really didn't have many other good options, the whole army could completely redeploy within a turn.
My opponent, Kerensky bless him, decided to go quantity over quality and took 8 IS Mechs all at Skill: 4. He rolled 2 hits the entire game.
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A quick question about the Bears and the FRR re Religion. The FRR as far as I know had a kind of mix of christian, Bhuddist and neo-norse pagan worship which seems to have become the more dominant religion of the people. Would the Bear's start absorbing this via cultural osmosis?
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It would be up to the individual id think, as everyone is different, but my answer is pretty much yes.
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So iv been playing around with the Kodiak II, whats everybody's favorite kodiak?
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The one, the only, the original...
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I'm a big fan of the Kodiak 5. I know, it's boring, but I like it anyway.
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The Kodiak GB with the Gauss Rifle. Also, I just preordered it for MWO!
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I really prefer the mobility of the Kodiak 2, and it is the variant that I use most often on the tabletop.
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Canon? Gotta go with the original. My favorite favorite? The insane, munched-out Solaris custom model I made. It used to be on the forums, but got lost in the various crashes--someone drew custom artwork and everything. When I find the record sheet, I'll try to scan and re-upload it in the customs section.
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I think I'd have to say the original, if only because the newer variants don't really wow me (but then again, I haven't really tried them out either)
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Custom although I've forgotten the exact stats basically it was medium lasers jump jets gauss rifle and LRM 15s or 20s and maxed armor.... Course this was ages ago so I have to redesign it at some point
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The original cemented its place for me when I used it to split fire on a Grand Crusader and an Archangel and CT cored them both.
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Original. Purity of purpose means a lot.
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Original. Purity of purchase means a lot.
I thought you hated Kodiaks.
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I hate the repeated use of Kodiaks wasting valuable Dominion slots in TROs.
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I hate the repeated use of Kodiaks wasting valuable Dominion slots in TROs.
Where has the Kodiak appeared outside of TRO 3058?
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As totem Mechs the Ursus and Kodiak were focused on in MWDA to the exclusion of the Omnis. This had flow on effects to TRO3085 and TRO3145.
There is a reason both now show up in frontline RATs.
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The Ursus II and Kodiak II are both excellent 'Mechs; speaking as a Horse player, I'd kill to get my hands on both of those.
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At the cost of an Executioner II and Viper II? Both can do some pretty wrong things with advanced tech and probably more fun to play because of their inherent mobility compared to the Kodiak and Ursus.
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At the cost of an Executioner II and Viper II?
Were those things actually on the table, though? Do we know that's what we would have gotten had the Ursus II and Kodiak II been left out or relegated to an ONN section?
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At the cost of an Executioner II and Viper II? Both can do some pretty wrong things with advanced tech and probably more fun to play because of their inherent mobility compared to the Kodiak and Ursus.
I think the NTNU configs prove there's plenty of life left in the original Executioner. I would love to see a Viper II though, I have nothing nice to say about the Ursus.
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I would totally trade most of the kodiak variants (if not all) for a Viper II
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Yeah, would love to see a Viper II, and a decent light omni to replace the Firemoth line that was lost.
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just imagine an Executioner with proper armour placement...
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just imagine an Executioner with proper armour placement...
[drool] that would be rather tasty.
I think the NTNU configs prove there's plenty of life left in the original Executioner. I would love to see a Viper II though, I have nothing nice to say about the Ursus.
Thats okay, the Ursus has nothing nice to say about you either ;)
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just to note, the stats for the Leviathan III are up on Sarna now for those of you without XTRO: Republic 3
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:Jumpy: :Jumpy: Highly suggest to those who don't own it, to check it out...delicious is all i can say. Which brings me to ask, if you got to name the next leviathan (lets all pretend we build another one) What name would you pick?
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Malvina Hazen
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Malvina Hazen must Die!
Fixed that for you O:-)
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What name would you pick?
RDS Shardik
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What name would you pick?
RDS Jörmungandr
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RDS Holy Crap, it's a Bear
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RDS Interstellar Carebears
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RDS Bestial Howl
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RDS Ragnarok
RDS Arctodus
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Which brings me to ask, if you got to name the next leviathan (lets all pretend we build another one) What name would you pick?
RDS Roar Roar Face Eater
or
RDS Winnie the Tseng
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RDS Geisa
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RDS Outrun This
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a few names i decided on was
RDS Kesagake (look it up if you have too, i know the combine wouldn't like this at all.)
RDS Binky
RDS Inuka
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RDS Blinky Bill
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RDS Kesagake (look it up if you have too, i know the combine wouldn't like this at all.)
Massacring women and children. Subtle.
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RDS Theodore Roosevelt (named for the man who was the name inspiration for the teddy bear)
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RDS Theodore Roosevelt (named for the man who was the name inspiration for the teddy bear)
must use for battleship must!!!!!!!!!!!
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anyone have any input?
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51616.0
ah, no cross posting allowed, doesn't matter anyway I guess, got a second source for the bases
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so throughout the Jihad, TPTB went out of their way to remove all the large fleets of the CBT universe
so what do you guys make of the Bears getting a new Leviathan? something to do with the ilClan? 2nd Homeworlds Invasion?
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so throughout the Jihad, TPTB went out of their way to remove all the large fleets of the CBT universe
so what do you guys make of the Bears getting a new Leviathan? something to do with the ilClan? 2nd Homeworlds Invasion?
As I said on another Thread re the Leviathan III
I may or may not be doing something regarding this beasty for the future and the Lev III is quite simply Deus Ex Machina. She's not something you can use really, because she just causes ANYTHING to suffer critical existance failure and is grossly OP. She in my mind exists as a plot point that we're slowly walking towards, and will be used as such, how I don't know.
Perhaps the Republic sneak a nuke onboard and pin the evidence on the Dracs, and the Bear's go and do this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMTE8qnJ7h8 and go 'have a very strong word' with the over extended DCMS. At which point the Raven Alliance goes "DOG PILE!" and gets involved as well, all this in turn helps the Davions out or does it become the IKS Alexsandr Kerensky, flagship of the IlKhan? We'll have to wait and see.
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oh i totally think it has something to do with ilclan. WoR showed it ain't no party like a leviathan party!
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It is a big plot stick and that scares me: if we're getting a plot stick that means we are going to use it for good r bad. That means something major is going to happen to our Clan. That means I have to watch for Herb over my shoulder every time I read a new release or Herb piloting the Levithan because it's going to destroy someone or something big and we might not like the results.
However a part of me hopes it ends up being a fleet in being, somethig that keeps people away for a long time until that fated commando strike nukes it. Five years of scared Spheroids would be nice if we can't use it.
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The Ghost Bears are going to destroy Terra and declare themselves ilClan. Anybody brave (or foolish) enough to challenge them is going to have to face their Leviathan fleet.
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The Ghost Bears are going to destroy Terra and declare themselves ilClan. Anybody brave (or foolish) enough to challenge them is going to have to face their Leviathan fleet.
Why?
They refused to use warship support against the Word on Terra becaude it was Terra. And that was when they were at their most nonsense genocidal blood fury. There's no reason at all for them to suddenly want to attack, let alone destroy it
"lol destroy terra" is this forums king of dumb replies
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Plot device.
Consider for a moment how a WarShip is meant to survive in an era of XL ASF, large assault DropShips, and nukes.
Small WarShips can't be armoured enough to survive. At the same time ships can't be so powerful that 'Mechs are devalued. Unless you push through practical combat to unplayable. All those docking collars aren't an accident. It is so you can slice off a piece of Leviathan and have a meaningful battle with all those DropShips, Small Craft, and ASF the game has been pushing for the last decade.
Who knows if WarShips are coming back? But the clear trend through the Handbooks after FWL and DC was that modern ships would be pushing the limits of the current rule set more that ships set in the past. Even that isn't true. Look at the SL era House ships.
Battletech is a long lived universe and there are plenty of examples of equipment built under old philosophies or rules being left behind (anything in TRO 3050. Original Clan Omnifighters. ) the L3s are future proofed and they will need it. If WarShips come back (big if) you can get a lot more optimized than a L3 (NAC boat) and they will rapidly get terrifying.
The above is uninformed speculation. I know nothing beyond the history of the L3. I don't know its future.
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In stuck! Need the names for half a dozen warships of Ghost Bear manufacturer in an alternate universe/RP/ fan fiction w/e... Anyways need a Cameron, Liberator, Conqueror, Lola-III, Volga, and two Carracks.
I've just about run thru the list of various types of Bears, famous Bears, names suggested in these threads in the past, and canon names. The only thing I haven't done is use canon character names (Hans Jorgensson, Sandra Tseng, ect.) but that would require me to reshuffle a ton of names because no way the founders have a pair of transports named after them. So yeah basically I've run out of creative names
And then a second question although it's more of a forum rules question : if I wanted to ask about specific building of a fan made unit, but really only wanted to ask you Ghost Bears would I be allowed to ask it here?
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In stuck! Need the names for half a dozen warships of Ghost Bear manufacturer in an alternate universe/RP/ fan fiction w/e... Anyways need a Cameron, Liberator, Conqueror, Lola-III, Volga, and two Carracks.
Some of these are bear-themed. Others are Scandinavian/Norse-themed (assuming the Rasalhagians merged with the Bears in your alternate universe).
Asgard -- Home of the Norse Aesir gods (Odin, Thor, etc.)
Atlas Bear -- Extinct subspecies of African brown bear used in Roman coliseums and appearing in Roman art.
Callisto -- Nymph turned into a bear in Greek myth. Origin of Ursa Major constellation.
Cave Bear -- Large, extinct bear species from the Pleistocene. Appears in Stone Age cave art and burials.
Demon Bear -- Obvious.
Fimbulvinter -- Norse for "mighty winter". The prelude to Ragnarok in Norse mythology.
Glacier Bear (or Blue Bear) -- Subspecies of black bear with silver-blue hair native to Alaska.
Ghost Claw (or Fang or Maw) -- Obvious.
Grolar (or Nanulak) -- Hybrid polar/grizzly bear. (Yes, they can interbreed.)
Hamask -- Norse term for changing into a bear and entering a wild fury, like a berserker in battle.
Ice Bear (or Isbjorn) -- Scandinavian name for polar bear.
Jarl -- Norse chieftain.
Kamui -- Ainu for bear. Means "god". The Ainu worshipped bears.
Kamchatka -- Brown bear subspecies. Largest bear in Eurasia. Russian (Kerensky's native tongue) place name.
Medved -- Russian (Kerensky's native tongue) for bear.
Nanuq -- Inuit name for polar bear.
Raging Bear -- Obvious.
Ring Giver -- Norse kenning for chieftain.
Sea Bear -- Alternate name for polar bear.
Spirit Bear -- North American subspecies of brown bear with white fur.
Valhalla -- Norse warrior's heaven. Odin's hall.
War Bear -- Why not?
Or...
Baloo
Corduroy
Paddington
and Winnie-the-Pooh
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if I wanted to ask about specific building of a fan made unit, but really only wanted to ask you Ghost Bears would I be allowed to ask it here?
I'm not sure I understand the question, you want to ask our opinion on a unit you made?...what does that have to do with forum rules?
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So clearly I hadn't thought if every bear related name lol... Thank you Miss Kerensky.
Well I wanted to really make sure Zeruel. Didn't want my double post moved forums or warned off lol
Anyways the question was going to be asking about pilots Codexes and whether or not the Ghost Bear pilots of this forum ever had them. For example I myself thru my MW4 days always fought with the First Bear Guards and Alpha Galaxy, eventually reaching Star Colonel. I was curious what others had earned/ preferred for their rank and unit designations in regards to the same aforementioned RP because I'm also short a few pilots and backstories..
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Zeruel once pwned my kodiak (years ago...we're old) with a Executioner,while i was in a very intense growing up phase of "hating" or "loathing" or just in general "whining" about executioners. Hows that for a codex entry? ....then again a frontline unit being a second line one isn't all that brag worthy...now is it Zeruel? ;)
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and after 3145 NTNU, can't get foxx to stop using Executioners
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Some of these are bear-themed. Others are Scandinavian/Norse-themed (assuming the Rasalhagians merged with the Bears in your alternate universe).
<snip>Or...
Baloo
Corduroy
Paddington
and Winnie-the-Pooh
You forgot Teddy Ruxpin :D
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So clearly I hadn't thought if every bear related name lol... Thank you Miss Kerensky.
Well I wanted to really make sure Zeruel. Didn't want my double post moved forums or warned off lol
i think you'll be fine, just direct us to the original post instead of posting here, or if it's in a file attachment
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Zeruel once pwned my kodiak (years ago...we're old) with a Executioner,while i was in a very intense growing up phase of "hating" or "loathing" or just in general "whining" about executioners. Hows that for a codex entry? ....then again a frontline unit being a second line one isn't all that brag worthy...now is it Zeruel? ;)
beating your secondliner with a frontliner? nah, not brag-worthy...beating your 100-tonner with one nice double-tap from an UAC-20 to your CT was brag-worthy ;)
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beating your secondliner with a frontliner? nah, not brag-worthy...beating your 100-tonner with one nice double-tap from an UAC-20 to your CT was brag-worthy ;)
"Center Torso? What Center Torso? I don't see no stinkin' Center Torso!"
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So if you were to make a striker star, what would you use? Right now i'm in a game using a Karhu G,Mad dog III B,Viper H, Beowulf IIC and a Dasher II on a 45x45 map with a big crater in the middle surrounded by ruins.
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So if you were to make a striker star, what would you use? Right now i'm in a game using a Karhu G,Mad dog III B,Viper H, Beowulf IIC and a Dasher II on a 45x45 map with a big crater in the middle surrounded by ruins.
Arcas 3, Vulture III B, Grizzly, Kuma, Executioner P
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not a bad selection, not a fan of the Kuma, but if you can rock it more power to you!
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oh i totally think it has something to do with ilclan. WoR showed it ain't no party like a leviathan party!
It's there so the IS Clans have a big ship to go up against the new Leviathan Prime the HW Clans are bringing...
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Besides the Leviathan II that they already have?
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Well its that time if the year again. Little bit older and closer to being solemah. What forces should i fight? Which clan do you trothkin think deserves birthday spankings!?
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Happy Birthday and best wishes, Foxx! :)
Go, pull some jade-green feathers. You can't go wrong with smashing Malvina's theeth. >:/! O0
Btw, you're far to young to be solahma. [rockon]
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The poor turkeys are getting plucked. The karhu showed the falcon heavy that this is no zaku boy, no zaku!! The G config was made to backshot with zero keresnkys given.
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Delayed but happy birthday trothkin! Mine is this Friday am unfortunetly I could not convince my group to switch from Dugeons and Dragons to Battletech this year, but soon I will have them stomping in Atlases and Banshees before they get smashed by Bear forces :)
As far as fights go, Third Dominion War scenario with our brand new Leviathan to avenge the Ursa Major with a bit of flare?
Join with the Horses to smash some Falcons and stop the madwoman Malvina?
Smash some Homeworld forces that come invading ?
Sit around and make sure we don't implode by using police Clusters and Rasalhague Clusters against insurgents?
Elect an IlKhan by taking Terra....
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So My fellow bears... I've finally convinced some of my friends to play Battletech and they chose Alpha Strike after playing a local demo at a con... Which makes me partially upset but hey can't win them all...
So which of my fellow Bears play AS and what are your favorite mechs to run?
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So My fellow bears... I've finally convinced some of my friends to play Battletech and they chose Alpha Strike after playing a local demo at a con... Which makes me partially upset but hey can't win them all...
So which of my fellow Bears play AS and what are your favorite mechs to run?
While I don't play bears I've been on the receiving end of them a few times in AS.
Karhu Prime is a pain to kill and a pain to let live; a great "rabbit" unit that I've wasted plenty of shots trying to get rid of.
Kodiak II is a monster but also a huge point sink. Great against heavy units I counter them with speed swarms.
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Also, something to keep in mind is that the way the TW-AS paradigm changes means that some once-abysmal units are at least okay--you can now field the Ryoken II and accomplish slightly more than sticking the record sheet in a paper shredder.
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Once you get over your hate of the ryoken two, it can di some awesome things. I hear the firemoth is awesome in as. Dont forget about battle armor!!
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Yeah, the Fire Moth is an unholy terror in Alpha Strike, and now it is dangerous enough to really be an effective transport/diversion for BA, since it will be potent enough to keep the enemy tied up while the BA it delivered get into position.
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Dont forget about battle armor!!
Another plug for the Karhu; throw some BattleArmor on it and jump it behind your opponent. Falling for that motivated me to look into artillery.
Another one worth mentioning is the Bruin; for the cost of an AS7-D you get a fairly good 'Mech that can jump in behind your opponent like a Grasshopper on steroids.
EDIT: There's a theme here that I'm sure many have noticed. Because I play a speed swarm army units that can bypass terrain have a good chance of flanking me if I get overextended.
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I also might have to build my OpFor as well against a Coyote or Wolf force. Going to try and convince them to run an all era game so I don't have to go too much into lore for them (which bites because I enjoy being Loremaster)
Karhu is one of my favorite mechs visually so I'll definetly consider that and of course I'm throwing in a Fire Moth or two with attached BA because what CGB force does not have Battle Taxis.
Was also considering a Hellstar because I want to be a bit mean to them but I didn't know how well it translated into AS. And then read/buy the AS rules lol
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I also might have to build my OpFor as well against a Coyote or Wolf force. Going to try and convince them to run an all era game so I don't have to go too much into lore for them (which bites because I enjoy being Loremaster)
Karhu is one of my favorite mechs visually so I'll definetly consider that and of course I'm throwing in a Fire Moth or two with attached BA because what CGB force does not have Battle Taxis.
Was also considering a Hellstar because I want to be a bit mean to them but I didn't know how well it translated into AS. And then read/buy the AS rules lol
Hellstar is excellent in AS.
The Tyr is a great way to move BattleArmor.
EDIT: I got hugged by a Fire Moth H once; nasty little 'Mech
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Remember that you want this guy to play the game again.
Keep it simple. Nothing that can pointlessly drag out a fame like a Karhu Prime or Viking IIC.
Mad Dogs are good as the firepower will offer a scare while the armour is easy to crack.
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Remember that you want this guy to play the game again.
Keep it simple. Nothing that can pointlessly drag out a fame like a Karhu Prime or Viking IIC.
Mad Dogs are good as the firepower will offer a scare while the armour is easy to crack.
This is sound advice. My group has been playing AS for a while now so very few units frighten us.
I'm actually going to try to push a 3025 escalation league at my FLGS sometime in the near future in the hopes of bringing in new players. While I understand that your group is probably interested in the new toys the Rasalhague Regulars look like a lot of fun and that era may be a good way to introduce them to AS.
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My group of friends rotates thru things pretty quickly so I don't know how long this Battletech craze for them will last. That being said..
I was considering a Mad Dog III for fire support or a Viking II, and definetly a Tyr for vehicle support, maybe with an Epona as well. I have to see how large of a force we want to play with.
If I can convince him a Trinary that would be awesome: running a Command Star, Support Star, and Harassment Star. If it's just a Star then most likely A mech Lance and BA Point.
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Does the Kodiak ever show up in front-line Ghost Bear units? I would imagine COs wouldn't object to their Clan's totem Mech.
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Does the Kodiak ever show up in front-line Ghost Bear units? I would imagine COs wouldn't object to their Clan's totem Mech.
would any commander not want the honor of such a mech in there unit, although in some groups it may not be the right speed, or for longer combat as its main weapon is a ultra ac 20.
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Considering few of the Ghost Bear's front line forces are 100% Omni after the Jihad, there's no reasons the various Kodiak variants couldn't show up in the front line forces.
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I'd expect Kodiak's to be rather common in Dominion clusters.
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Poking the thread.
Build me a Ghost Bear Star for the year 2900. Any unit, type, or size.
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Kingfisher
Highlander IIC
Warhammer IIC
Guillotine IIC
Rifleman IIC
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Ryoken
Dragonfly
Dragonfly
Dasher
Dasher
Configure as needed, load up on Elementals
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Ryoken
Dragonfly
Dragonfly
Dasher
Dasher
Configure as needed, load up on Elementals
2930
2874
2874
2940
2940
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2930
2874
2874
2940
2940
I misread the post as 2990 for some reason. That'll teach me.
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Quick question: Is the Stooping Hawk in use by Clan Ghost Bear during the invasion era?
EDIT: I need the source too, if it is.
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MUL says it is
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Away from my books but IIRC FM: Update has it as part of the RAT for 3067
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I'm wondering if they were in use by the Bears before the truce.
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MUL says they have it in the "Clan Invasion Era" which is 3050 to 3060. You're probably not going to get a better answer then that.
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I used to think some kind of trade. After all the Stooping Hawk is based upon a CGB design.
These days I lean towards the shared territory on Arcadia in 3067.
Which messes up the MUL entry a bit.
But then again. The Stooping Hawk is old enough to end up anywhere in 3049.
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Eldingars or Tyrs? Which would you use?
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that is a tough call. I like the range, damage, and ammo independence of the ERLL, but the ECM plus ATM9 is a nice combo. I think, in a Trial i would use the Eldingar, but in a raid or invasion against the IS I would prefer the Tyr for the Energy weapon.
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So been a long time since we posted anything trothkin...
Anyways friends here are trying to start up a group around my parts which I'm excited about. Good news is they want to play anywhere between 3025 and 3075 but the bad news is their leaning towards pre-3050 which bites. Still 'won' the first match (called for time but I had two kills to his none out of eight mechs a piece) so gotta paint up some more Bear mechs an post a couple pics soon.
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So been a long time since we posted anything trothkin...
Anyways friends here are trying to start up a group around my parts which I'm excited about. Good news is they want to play anywhere between 3025 and 3075 but the bad news is their leaning towards pre-3050 which bites. Still 'won' the first match (called for time but I had two kills to his none out of eight mechs a piece) so gotta paint up some more Bear mechs an post a couple pics soon.
If they're leaning towards pre-3050, surely this just limits you to fights within the Clan Homeworlds? :D
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So been a long time since we posted anything trothkin...
Anyways friends here are trying to start up a group around my parts which I'm excited about. Good news is they want to play anywhere between 3025 and 3075 but the bad news is their leaning towards pre-3050 which bites. Still 'won' the first match (called for time but I had two kills to his none out of eight mechs a piece) so gotta paint up some more Bear mechs an post a couple pics soon.
Well the Clan invasion started in the Periphery in 3049 which technically is pre 3050.
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Lol to both
My friend and I both got the box sets cheaply and we've been both using the attached Timber Wolf which everyone seems to love using but hate facing (obviously) I just need to convince a couple more of them 3067 tech is the best for introduction: not limited to intro tech but not super advanced 3150 stuff either
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you could point out that 3067 games should play a bit faster than intro tech what with XL engines and better weapons
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Dunno how this happened, but somehow iv been turned into a SibNanny recently. Someone recommended me to a couple of guys to teach battle armor tactics and now iv got 2 students who are rasalhague/ghostbear fans.
Seriously,you should be worried,nows the time to run if your a wolf/horse ;)
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Dunno how this happened, but somehow iv been turned into a SibNanny recently. Someone recommended me to a couple of guys to teach battle armor tactics and now iv got 2 students who are rasalhague/ghostbear fans.
Seriously,you should be worried,nows the time to run if your a wolf/horse ;)
Sounds good to me; we always need more Bears O0
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well make that 3 now *laughs* They also want me to teach them how to use Aerospace assets. I'm really just paying it forward for all iv learned from other bear players over the years. Thanks to trothkin like Jellico,Zeruel,JadeHellbringer and others (yes jade, i remember when you were all ghostbear fanboyed out) iv become a very well rounded player despite my niche specialisation in infantry tactics.
Plus I'm 32, that's about time to go teach in the creches right? ;)
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Does that mean that I am old enough to grab a gun and run screaming into traffic?
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Nah we strap you to a ostrogoth and give you nothing vut rl and tsemp ;)
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Seriously,you should be worried,nows the time to run if your a wolf/horse ;)
Now you say this with pride, wanna go up with something I can think of off the top of my head?
I've been busy do other things, but I can still come up with nasty ideas all on my own.
Like:
My Elemental-TT's, that "S" Star of mine, those Society Units, some of my other designs and lest you forget, Whispers of Blake, a Level IV combat ready Manei Domini unit. ( Only 2 Level III's worth, rest Elite WoB, complete with Transport ). But since this is a clan thread, I'll just leave this here:
Think about the Belter Mods in Clan society and how they could be used today to increase your levels.
TT
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I have been sitting on this for a while. Arguably it should be down in Fan Fiction but things have been quite up here. It is of interest because it shows how brutal combat in the Black Out can be. It may come across a bit fan-w***y in the first few Waves, but given the end result there is no way I could commit Bear troops to this, on troop losses alone. Phyric is an understatement. It certainly shows why some factions aren't just rolled up.
This is NOT canon in any way. Nor does it use information not available in public sources.
Anyway. Let me know if you want more Waves.
A Visitor from Terra
On the 1st of January 3146 an envoy arrived at Silverdale, Alshain. After passing through customs she made her way to the house of a deactivated agent of the Republic of the Sphere. After the envoy proved her credentials the agent took her to a friend who happened to be a civilian member of the Dominion Council. Shocked by the envoy’s mere existence the Councilmember managed to get the envoy an audience with Prince Hjalmer Miraborg. Khan Dalia Bekker was soon summoned and the wheels of history began to turn.
The envoy had come from Terra. Behind the Wall. If this seemed impossible it paled compared to what she revealed next. A trivid of Exarch Devlin Stone. A Devlin Stone talking of events a man fifteen years dead should have no knowledge of. Stone praised the Dominion for their efforts in keeping the peace but now he called the Dominion to war. There were appeals to loyalty and promises of rewards. More importantly the envoy brought intelligence on the Draconis Combine’s plans and an inkling of how the Republic would bring them crashing down. The Rasalhague Dominion’s role would be on the other border, to eliminate the Jade Falcon threat.
The Rasalhague Dominion had plans for this, just as it had plans to eliminate the Hell’s Horses, or Draconis Combine, or any of its neighbours. All nations planned for these eventualities. But having threats on both borders typically prevented the more grandiose of these plans being carried out. But with the near guarantee that the Draconis Combine would be no threat in the medium term these plans suddenly became practical. The Dominion would be going to war.
The next nine months would be spent preparing the touman for war. Refitting and rebuilding the weak, repositioning troops for effect, and observing the Falcons locations. It would be a close run thing, but the touman could do it.
Operation Khan Polly
Strategy
Clan Jade Falcon’s touman was extremely stretched. Pushing deep into the Lyran Commonwealth orders would take weeks to arrive. The lack of JumpShips was acute, effecting both civilian trade and military operations. Though not planned for by the Dominion, the fall of Arc Royal in September had weakened the Falcon’s troops on the Coventry front.
The Dominion strategy was to overwhelm and eliminate Falcon garrisons before moving forward without making any serious attempt to hold a world. The intention was to rapidly move onto major worlds and establish heavily fortified positions while eliminating enemy units that might otherwise get loose in the now exposed Dominion.
Three main worlds were targeted, Sudeten, Skye, and Pandora, with Arcturus as a secondary target. Seizing these worlds would deny Clan Jade Falcon 80% of its military industrial capacity. Seizing the Sudeten/Pandora corridor would isolate the Falcon Reach. The Reach itself was of marginal value outside of Skye and Arcturus and could be allowed to fall to the Lyrans if they took the initiative. The main reason for fighting would be to supress the twenty-two Falcon Clusters stationed there.
Approximately a third of the Dominion’s touman would be committed to the offensive. Beta, Tundra and Rho would lead the way with elements of Rasalhague and Omega Galaxy providing support. The remaining touman would be tasked with screening against the Hell’s Horses and Draconis Combine, even though its border was supposedly denuded.
Nearly 60% of the Falcon touman would be targeted. While outnumbering the Dominion the Falcons were hindered by a lack of JumpShips limiting both transport and communications options. This would continually prevent the Falcons from reacting to attacks and concentrating their forces for counter attacks, it would even make retreat difficult for many Clusters.
On the other hand the Dominion’s communications would remain solid. Enough JumpShips existed to allow for a network of couriers and to maintain the invading Clusters mobility.
Wave 1 (3rd September 3146)
The opening phase of the conflict favoured the Dominion. Able to achieve strategic surprise the Dominion used its Hunter fleet to locate and identify most of the Jade Falcon garrisons with the Republic providing intelligence on the remainder. Able to tailor its assault forces the Dominion was able to keep losses low as it neutralised the Falcon defenders.
Coreward Front
Three Clusters of the Rasalhague Galaxy were tasked with hugging the Hell’s Horses’ OZ border so that they could continue to keep tabs on the Horses. Beta Galaxy would penetrate deeper, jumping the border before D-Day in order to attack cut the Reach in two. Losses had to be kept to a minimum as the bulk of the Falcon touman would inevitably bear down upon them as the Dominion’s intentions became known.
Benfled
Years of raids by the Wolves in Exile had ill prepared the 1st Falcon Swoop for a direct assault by the 14th Battle and 140th Striker Clusters. The 1st was positively excited to get the chance to face an opponent in clear Trials rather than fleeing raiders. Undermanned and filled with green troops the 1st collapsed when drawn into a series of ill-advised Trials against the better armed and more experienced Dominion units.
Biota
The green 5th Mixed was targeted by the elite 1st Tyr Assault. Despite the skill difference near equality in numbers meant that the 5th managed to reduce the 1st to 55% strength before being eliminated.
Koniz
The 10th PGC on Koniz was equally vulnerable as the 1st Falcon Swoop when the 332nd Assault and 18th Battle Clusters arrived. While the 10th was doomed a groups of survivors managed to retreat to Dustball and get out an alarm.
La Grave
The elite 1st Falcon Jaegers on La Grave were a much tougher target. Identified by the Watch as a major threat the 2nd Tyr Assault and Gunzburg Eagles had been assigned to root them out. The Jaegers fought hard and effectively reducing the Dominion forces by 30% before retreating in good order and requesting hegira. Unfortunately through it was granted, a lack of transports meant the survivors were not able to leave La Grave until the 5th Wave.
Rimward Front
The Dominion’s Omega and Rho Galaxy were tasked with isolating and assaulting Skye. To do that they first had to nullify a series of Falcon garrisons stationed along the border to prevent retaliations inside the Dominion. This forced the Dominion to proceed along a relatively wide front that would cause its coreward elements to spend a lot of time in transit.
The Falcon defences largely consisted of Alpha, Vau and Zeta Galaxies, all Chinggis Khan loyalists. Largely homogenous and concentrated under saKhan Ryan Pryde they would be able to co-ordinate an effective defence once the situation became clear. Unfortunately that would not be until the 3rd Wave.
Kimball II
Threatening the Vega Protectorate, the 12th Falcon Jaegers would have to be nullified to free up the rest of the Dominion’s Omega Galaxy. The under baked 2nd Vegan Regulars were tasked to pin down the 12th in a role widely expected to neutralise the 2nd in turn. To the surprise of all the 2nd was able to grind out a victory with only 30% losses after convincing the 12th to enter a straight Trial on an unnamed plain. Hegira was offered and accepted though Star Colonel Angela von Jankmon complained of the 2nd using massed fire tactics. Star Colonel Sergio Moss responded by having the 12th’s DropShips routed through Alshain before returning to Falcon space 6 months later.
Symington
A grudge match between the Dominion Rho Galaxy and the Falcon’s Omega Galaxy saw the 9th Falcon Velites being matched against the 300th and 343rd Battle Clusters. Repeating their tactics of a few years earlier the 9th sent waves of small units at the Dominion Clusters. Keeping their DropShips off world Rho denied the 9th a logistical tail to attack while their big ‘Mechs maintained cohesion and methodically crushed the 9th. Hegira was not granted.
Unkalhai
For the first time since facing the Nova Cats the 5th Bear Guards and 3rd Bear Regulars found themselves facing a Clan opponent. The 6th Falcon Dragoons. Hitting hard and fast the Omega Galaxy Clusters were barely detected before they dropped on the 6th’s barracks. No pretence of Zellbrigen was maintained keeping Dominion losses low. This breach of honour would not become apparent to the Falcons until later in the conflict and Wave 2 would be complete before the Falcons realised Unkalhai was lost.
Yed Posteria
The 2nd Mixed Cluster found itself under attack by the 243rd and 283rd Battle Clusters. Battle was swift and brutal and the outnumbered 2nd was gutted and retreated to Auldhouse.
Central Front
Wedged between the Lyran Commonwealth and Dominion, a series of nine Falcon Clusters kept the supply routes to Skye open. For the Dominion these Clusters were a clear and present danger to the manufacturing centres of Orestes and Grumium. It would be the task of the Tundra Galaxy to keep the Falcons occupied.
Fatima
Facing the 4th Falcon Striker Cluster the 1st and 2nd Drakøn gleefully employed the tactics the 3rd used on Meacham in 3138. Faced with a massive application of the Viking doctrine the 4th retreated to Blue Diamond alerting the defenders to the Dominion assault.
Tomans
The 9th Falcon Striker Cluster had the misfortune to find themselves under attack from the 3rd Drakøn, 1st and 3rd Hussars. With a massive advantage in missile weapons the Tundra Galaxies were able to make the 9th fight in the shade. Unable to secure transport off world the 9th died where they fought.
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Wave 2 (24th September 3146)
Here the quirks of Clan combat began to work to the Dominion’s advantage. So far none of the Falcon garrisons had attempted to fight a guerrilla campaign. This was good for the Dominion as without HPG communications they were on a schedule. After a brief pause for recovery the Dominion was on the move again.
In the meantime word had begun to get out amongst the Falcons. Counter attacks were planned on Dustbowl but as yet Sudeten had no idea the whole Reach was under attack while Skye was unaware of an attack at all.
Coreward Front
Having secured a bridgehead, it was time to cut the Falcon Occupation Zone in two. With only the Raptor Keshik defending it Sudeten was ripe for conquest. However a number of Falcon garrisons remained on systems a single jump away that could prove threatening if they were not neutralised.
At the same time the naval war heated up as Dominion assets struck sites where Falcon WarShips were suspected to be stationed.
On Sudeten so far the Falcon high command was approaching the situation as a deep raid. Only the Koniz garrison had managed to get any warning out. There were concerns about the apparent silence from Blenfled (on the route to Skye), but Biota and La Grave were not high priority destinations for the stretched Falcon JumpShip fleet. For the moment they were happy to encourage the counter attack being planned on Dustbowl.
Blair Athol
After securing Benfled the Dominion 14th Battle and 140th Striker struck out at Blair Atholl. Upon arriving they found the 4th Mixed Cluster gone. Landing to gain intelligence the Clusters stayed long enough to stay on schedule then jumped on to Sudeten as part of the 3rd Wave.
Butler
One of the Dominion’s great concerns was facing the seven WarShips of the Jade Falcon fleet. The Dominion would have to rely on JumpShip based defences if the Falcons decided to disperse its fleet. So some months before D-Day the Dominion dispatched a Star of four Odysseys to Butler to perform a cutting out operation and to try and ascertain the location of any of the Falcon WarShips. Travelling undetected through the Hell’s Horses’ OZ the Dominion task force’s arrival coincided with the attack on Sudeten.
Defending the Butler Yards was the cruiser Red Talon. The 16 Dominion DropShips deployed their fighters then tried to put as much space between themselves and the cruiser as possible. An hour later Red Talon was drifting and the DropShips were beginning boarding operations on the Butler Yards. After taking prisoners for interrogation purposes and scuttling a Starlord and Invader in the slipways the task force began the month-long trip to Sudeten.
Koniz
The missing 4th Mixed Cluster was at Koniz. The survivors of the 10th PGC had managed to get to Dustbowl and coordinate a counter attack with the 4th Mixed and 8th PGC. The three Clusters hit the 332nd Assault and 18th Battle Clusters hours before the Dominion were due to board their DropShips to attack Dustbowl. Fighting was vicious with the 332nd losing 40% of its force and the 18th a third. However and experience and equipment told. Fearing a repeat the Dominion forces denied hegira and interned the survivors. With Dustbowl’s defenders neutralised the Dominion forces no longer needed to secure Dustbowl so would instead jump directly to Sudeten in the 3rd Wave.
Sudeten
Sudeten was Clan Jade Falcon’s capital and centre of its war industry. Despite that it was only defended by the elite Raptor Keshik and the WarShip Turkina’s Pride. However the Dominion would not be taking any chances.
The arrival of the battleship Rasalhague at Sudeten’s LaGrange point signalled the Dominion’s intentions early. Remarkably the Falcon battlecruiser moved to engage in Sudeten’s orbit as Rasalhague finished its burn in. The reason became obvious when Turkina’s opening salvo of missiles was identified as nuclear armed. Rasalhague’s screening DropShips made the effort futile and Turkina’s Pride’s captain apologised as the Dominion Star Admiral berated him over an open channel. The Falcon Star Admiral had her orders from her Khan and so nuclear missiles continued to fly even as Turkina’s Pride collapsed under heavy laser fire.
The 1st and 2nd Tyr and the Gunzburg Eagles deployed and called out the Raptor Keshik. No quarter was asked or given with the Raptor Keshik breaking Zellbrigen before the Rasalhague Galaxy Clusters had to. A single Star of the Keshik would escape escorting Khan Malvina off world. Sudeten was the Dominion’s and fortification efforts could begin.
Rimward Front
Now the wide front began to effect Dominion operations. The 2nd Vega Cluster was two jumps from their next target meaning that they would spend the entire Wave in transit. At the same time word was starting to get out to the Falcons.
Alphecca
Always skipped over for battle in favour of Alpha Galaxy, the 10th Falcon Talon had battle come to it when the 5th Bear Guards and 3rd Bear Regulars landed. At best the 10th was not caught off guard detecting the inbound DropShips early. At worst they were fighting an enemy who did not know honour and made full use of the fact. Though the 10th went down the survivors were able to retreat to Skye, finally alerting saKhan Pryde to the danger.
Auldhouse
Traveling more coreward, the 300th and 343rd Battle Clusters were mostly focused on eliminating Clusters that could break into their rear. Their next stop was Auldhouse and the 14th Falcon Jaegers. The 14th were not an easy target and along with the 2nd Mixed Cluster managed to reduce the Dominion forces by 25% before retreating in good order to Apostica.
Izar
The elite 7th Falcons Striker Cluster would provide a major challenge to the 243rd and 283rd Battle Clusters. The Dominion Clusters played on the Falcon’s sense of honour to goad them into a relatively quick battle. Zelbriggen was maintained but numbers told in the end.
Central Front
Tundra Galaxy continued to push into the Falcon Reach with no shortage of targets, but this would be the last time they would catch the Falcons unaware.
Blue Diamond
Alerted by the 4th Falcon Striker Cluster, the understrength 75th Falcon Striker was ready when the lead Drakøn Clusters arrived. Once again the Falcon Omega Galaxy failed to perform in the face of rushing heavy ‘Mechs and overwhelming fire support. The survivors of the 4th would again retreat, this time to Kelenfold, but the 75th remained in place trying vainly to defeat the Viking doctrine a second time.
Crimond
The 5th Falcon Talon had been hearing rumours of invasions when the other three Tundra Clusters arrived in system. Recognising the hopelessness of the situation Star Colonel Harold Sender scattered his light forces in the hopes of waging a guerrilla campaign. Unfortunately the severe numerical imbalance meant that the Dominion troops were able to find his troops and defeat them in detail. Nonetheless the delay meant that the Tundra Clusters were barely ready in time to make the 3rd Wave.
Wave 3 (15th October 3146)
By now it was clear to the Falcon Khans a major attack was under way. On Skye SaKhan Pryde used the apparent pause in combat to organise a counter attack while Khan Hazen started recalling troops from the Coventry front. Unfortunately it would take months for the messages just to reach the front so for now the Chinggis Khan would have to concentrate on securing what she had.
For the Dominion three waves of combat were starting to cause stress on their troops. Most Clusters reported 50% strength with far too many Falcon Clusters still operational. New Clusters would have to be shuffled into the front line, but where could they come from without risking attacks from the Horses or Draconis Combine?
For both sides it became clear that allies, or at least declarations of neutrality, would need to be found to end the war. However the limitations of communications without HPGs meant that results would not begin to be noticed until after the 5th Wave.
Coreward Front
Sudeten had been captured, now it would have to be held or retaken. It immediately became clear to Khan Hazen that the Dominion was pouring troops into Sudeten. Normally this would be a signal to attack elsewhere but the capital world represented 50% of the Falcon’s military industrial capacity, and with Skye cut off and Pandora equally exposed Sudeten needed to be retaken.
Unfortunately the continued presence of the battleship Rasalhague meant any rushed attempt would be doomed. Worse, with two cruisers disabled or destroyed she lacked to naval might to face the battleship in the short term. To retake Sudeten Hazen would need troops which would take time. For now the Chinggis Khan would have to wait.
Colmar
With Beta Galaxy starting to arrive on Sudeten the 2nd Tyr Assault Cluster and Gunzburg Eagles were freed up to raid Colmar hoping to catch the 78th PGC still on world. Luck was with the Dominion and they were able to catch the 78th before it left the world. Though the Dominion Clusters were reduced to under 50% strength the 78th was rendered combat ineffective before the survivors retreated off world. The Dominion Clusters made no attempt to hold the world and retreated to Sudeten.
Sudeten
Well aware of Sudeten’s strategic position cutting the Falcon OZ in two, as well as its industry, genetic repositories and organs of government for the whole OZ, all of Beta and the three Rasalhague Clusters began massing on the world under the guns of the battleship Rasalhague. While seemingly overkill it served two functions. Firstly all but two Clusters were under 60% strength making the available force equivalent to only four Clusters. Secondly Sudeten’s strategic location made it well suited to act as a base of operations from which to monitor and put down any Falcon build ups on nearby worlds.
Rimward Front
The arrival of the 10th Falcon Talon alerted SaKhan Pryde to the danger he faced. Attempts to contact Kimball II and Unkalhai revealed that these worlds had fallen. At the same time the Dominion forces on Alphecca were oddly stalled. Taking decisive action Pryde sent orders recalling the 1st Mixed Cluster from Alkaid to Skye and ordered the 3rd Falcon Velites and 12th Falcon Hussars to rendezvous over Alphecca. The attackers would not be allowed to threaten Skye without a fight.
Alphecca
The experienced 3rd Falcon Velites and 12th Falcon Hussars successfully landed and set about finding the enemy. Unknown to the Falcons the 2nd Vega Regulars had reinforced the 5th Bear Guards and 3rd Bear Regulars on the initiative of Star Colonel Sergio Moss. This would prove fortuitous as it swung the numbers in favour of the Dominion. Knowing the history of who they faced, the Falcons had little respect for the Omega Galaxy Clusters. The five Clusters slugged it out over three weeks and two continents, The Falcons to avenge the 10th and 6th, the Dominion for survival. Ultimately the Dominion Clusters would be victorious but with all reduced to 20% strength.
Apostica
Apostica had become something of a Falcon haven with survivors from the 14th Falcon Jaegers and 2nd Mixed taking refuge under the protection of the 2nd Falcon Dragoons. This ended when the 300th and 343rd Battle Clusters arrived. A fairly straight forward action left the 15th trapped on world without transport. The exhausted Dominion Clusters stripped the Falcons of any equipment and took the warriors and support staff as prisoners promising their freedom as soon as they could be safely delivered to Falcon space.
Central Front
The Dominions troop numbers were coming to a head in the Central Front. While securing Pandora with a healthy garrison would demand three Clusters the remaining two were expected to neutralise three more Falcon Clusters. While the garrison on Kelenfold had some idea what was coming the remaining two were cut off from the high command and reliant on rumours.
Kelenfold
The 1st and 2nd Drakøn hit Kelenfold on schedule. The 4th Falcon Striker Cluster had warned the veteran 8th Falcon Velites and would this time use fortifications rather than the Mongol Doctrine to defend the world. These tactics did slow the Drakøns down forcing them spend the full allotted time for the Wave. Battle would consist of extended artillery bombardments followed by close quarter fighting as the Drakøns cleared out the Falcon’s nests. While the Falcons died where they fought the Drakøns were reduced to 50% strength.
Pandora
The 3rd Drakøn and 1st and 3rd Hussars found no opposition on Pandora as expected. With no heavy aerospace cover the Clusters set about constructing hidden bivouacs and fortifications for the orbital bombardment expected to come when the Falcons returned. Attempts were made to curry favour with the locals but neutrality was the best that could be achieved. Fear of Khan Hazen was strong and many would be happy to play the Falcons off against the Dominion.
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Really enjoying it jellico, will the leviathan III be making an appearance or will that still just be "experimental". Really liking your taking into account the jumpship numbers the dominion has. I suspect those hunter jumpships. We make (think thats the right one) will be earning their pay.
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Good stuff, J. It's interesting to ponder the impact of little or no HPG comms on large-scale operations.
On the one hand, it seems rather implausible that Stone could sucker the Bears into doing his dirty work a second time. ("You promised Not-Named but we found none...") But Dalia Bekker in the Khanship makes it possible given her sympathies for the Republic. Have Malvina throw another WMD fit that marks her for annihilation, and the Bears could be into it.
If there was a Republic resurgent plotline, I'd have the Bears go after both the Falcon and Combine -- assisted by their Raven allies on the Combine front and by a Republic-coordinated Elsie attack on the Falcon front. Squeeze both the Falcons and the Combine in vises. Have the FedRats go after the Cappies, and that leaves the Wolves as the remaining threat to the Republic.
Keep up the good work.
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On the one hand, it seems rather implausible that Stone could sucker the Bears into doing his dirty work a second time. ("You promised Not-Named but we found none...")
Wasn't it Uncle Chandy who made the Ghost Bears believe that the Blakists were harboring the survivors of Clan Wolverine?
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Thanks. Much appreciated.
No Leviathan 3. Yep. It is Hunters that we build. Scouting and comms are everything.
The big impact of no comms is rapid loss of control. You get about 2 and a half waves of free hits where you can mass 2 or 3 Clusters vs 1. At that point you lose track of everybody. If you stop, you lose initiative and they can find you and whack you. If you keep pushing you can be attacking thin air. You are into classic middle ages combat. Small garrisons being hit by large forces. Bunker down in castles and hope you get saved. Destroying an enemy outright is very hard to coordinate. Small bites over decades is easier to control. Which pretty much describes the history of the Inner Sphere.
Lets be clear. The Falcons are stuffed. As soon as the Lyrans pick up this kind of attack is underway they will be in on it. The Horses have no incentive to back the Falcons. The more interesting problem I found is whether the Dominion can GAIN from it. Remember they have to do more than win. They have to have a surviving army that can defend against the Lyrans, Horses, or Combine. By the end, I don't know that it was worth the effort.
The Bears went into Vega to support the Republic. That was the claim anyway. I have assumed that they support the Republic concept and would be receptive to a fight back. I am not sure that it is public that the Bears (and by extension the Clans) were played so I am not sure what bearing that would have on anything.
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Wave 4 (5th November 3146)
By now the Dominion had achieved its primary aims of seizing Sudeten and Pandora. Only Skye remained unconquered. Despite smashing twenty-two Falcon Clusters the Dominion’s own Clusters were approaching combat ineffectiveness. The most effective were fortifying Pandora and Sudeten while it was assumed five free Falcon Clusters remained outside Skye with no free Dominion units to counter them. The initiative was shifting and the Dominion would now be forced to react to the Falcons.
However other actors were about to take an interest. Rumours of the war were spreading to other powers. The Hell’s Horses were receiving delegations from the Falcons and Dominion making promises of territory in return for support. For aggressive Lyran units in the Enkoping Corridor like the 11th Donegal Guards news of a Dominion assault was manna from heaven. Reconnaissance was discretely undertaken during Wave 3 and by Wave 4 they were ready to begin extracting revenge on the Falcons. Meanwhile on Tharkad only the barest picture was starting to be formed.
Diplomacy
Both the Falcons and the Dominion had troops stationed on the Hell’s Horses’ border which would serve better on the front line. However while the Horse’s intentions remained unclear these troops would have to remain.
Relatively nearby and with time to burn while her touman massed, Khan Mavina Hazen personally entered negations with Khan Gottfried Amirault. By negations we mean she demanded her recent allies invade the Dominion and offered them New Oslo as compensation. In contrast the Dominion delegates also offered New Oslo after hostilities ended, merely requesting neutrality in return. Of course they noted that Butler and Erewhon were temptingly close and vulnerable.
For Amirault’s part he listened to all comers and then promised nothing and did nothing. For now, the Horses’ role would remain unclear.
Rimward Front
For the Omega Galaxy Clusters on Alphecca a time of decision had come. After two waves in transit the 243rd and 283rd Battle Clusters were scheduled to arrive at Skye at the start of Wave 4. The 5th Bear Regulars and 3rd Bear Guards were meant to meet them but were now reduced to a mixed Trinary each. Ultimately it came down to numbers. With two elite Falcon Clusters on Skye all four Dominion Clusters would need to be present. Leaving the 2nd Vega Regulars on Alphecca the 5th and 3rd left for Skye and their date with destiny.
Skye
Unknown to the Dominion the 1st Mixed Cluster had arrived Skye bolstering Falcon numbers. SaKhan Pryde hid the presence of the 1st until the 243rd, 283rd Battle 5th Bear Regulars, and 3rd Bear Guards were heavily engaged. At that point the 1st struck from the flank shattering the Dominion assault. Retaining air control the shattered survivors were able to retreat to their DropShips and make it off world, though none would take any further part in the war. Skye remained in Falcon hands.
Centre Front
With half of the Tundra galaxy fortifying Pandora the 1st and 2nd Drakøns were forced to continue neutralising Falcon garrisons. The next stop would be Arcturus; a minor industrial would with a useful military output. The defending 13th Falcon Dragoons would probably cripple the Drakøns but the Falcons could not be allowed to remain free to attack the rear areas.
Arcturus
When the 1st and 2nd Drakøns reached Arcturus they received a surprise. Instead of the 13th Falcon Dragoons they found Wolf in Exile’s 1st and 3rd Wolf Guards. While the Wolves expected problems the Dominion had already considered the possibility of Lyran involvement. Galaxy Commander Terje Hembre outlined the Dominion position. The Dominion claimed Pandora, Sudeten and Skye. The Lyrans were free to take anything else they could occupy. Star Colonel Hiram Radick accepted these terms pending approval from his superiors and the Dominion Clusters moved on to Pandora to await further orders.
Enkoping Front
The Lyran Commonwealth and Clan Wolf in Exile had been valiantly holding the Enkoping Corridor against the Wolf Empire and Jade Falcons. When news of the Dominion Assault reached the border garrisons the opportunity was clear. It was time to take back the Commonwealth.
Arcturus
Always ready to tweak the Falcon’s tail feathers Wolf in Exile’s 1st and 3rd Wolf Guards were more than willing to jump the border and raid Arcturus. Chasing down the 13th Falcon Dragoons outside the Arcturan Arms facility the Exiles put killed them to a man in memory of their loved ones on Arc Royal.
Edasich
Hauptmann-General Paul Ramirez was initially cautious about the rumours of the Dominion assault but when reconnaissance confirmed Eaton he moved quickly. Sending a JumpShip to Whittington to pick up the Dioscuri they would rendezvous with the 8th Lyran Guards at Edasich. The veteran 7th Falcon Hussars had dug in and were awaiting rescue by the Chinggis Khan. Remembering the terrors Vau Galaxy had used to supress its conquests the Lyrans took a special pleasure in eliminating the 7th Falcon Hussars.
Pandora
Hauptmann-General Tammy Diaz took a risk when she jumped the desperately understrength the 26th Arcturan Guards over the border to Pandora but the lure of the Clantech factories was too much. Especially if the rumours about Dustball and Koniz were to be believed. Instead of the Falcon garrison Diaz found the full Tundra Galaxy. Negotiations made it clear that the Dominion would not be surrendering Pandora but there were opportunities to target worlds anti-spinward of Pandora and Sudeten. Unwilling to push her luck Diaz retreated to Kanderstag and dispatched a courier to Tharkad to alert them to the situation.
Seginus
Long practiced at raiding the Falcons the 11th Donegal Guards in the company of Nekkar DPM jumped the border as soon as they noticed the 1st Mixed Cluster was missing from Alkaid. Rather than hit Alkaid Leutnant-General Nathan Bergstrom hit Seginus hoping to catch the 8th Falcon Dragoons still in place. Severely outnumbering the Cluster the Lyrans gained a quick victory. From the prisoners Bergstrom learned of the 1st Mixed recall to Skye and the likely battle to come. Sensing a chance to thrust his regiment into the action and stake a claim to the spoils Bergstrom quickly moved on to Skye.
Wave 5 (26th November 3146)
Now in direct communication with the Dominion forces the Lyran forces in the Enkoping Corridor started to move. Aware that the Falcon garrisons between Sudeten and Skye had been all but eliminated the Lyran defenders could push forward until they hit the Dominion troops approaching from the other direction.
The Dominion lacked this luxury. Aware that the assault on Skye had failed they began scrambling to find a suitable assault force which wouldn’t leave their borders exposed. In the meantime the bulk of their invasion force was fortifying Pandora and Sudeten as they refitted and cycled in new warriors. It was here that the Falcon hammer would be expected to fall.
Coreward Khan Hazen’s couriers had finally reached the anti-spinward elements of her far flung touman and they were beginning to turn back to Sudeten. Shattered troops were beginning to arrive from the Falcon Reach and Clusters needed to be rebuilt. For now the Sea Foxes promised to recognise Falcon credit and supply what was needed to rebuild, but Hazen needed to retake what had been captured. For her own survival if not that of her Clan. If she couldn’t retake Sudeten, there were other ways to force the Dominion to retreat.
Enkoping Front
While Wolf in Exile largely maintained its position for fear of stumbling into Falcon Clusters transiting back towards Sudeten the Lyran regiments pushed forward like children in a candy shop. There were simply too few troops and too many worlds to recapture. They would only stop when they reached a world with some harried lone Dominion official trying to assert his authority over the levers of power left behind by the Falcons. Communications difficulties meant that the end result depended heavily upon the officers on the ground. Diplomacy would later cause some planet swaps, but ultimately the border would run rimward to Komephoros, then down to Ko. Before that happened the remaining Falcon garrisons would have to be destroyed.
Eaton
After the hard fought battle on Edasich the 8th Lyran Guards made their way to Eaton. Here they engaged the 15th Falcon Jaegers, another Vau Cluster. Using their superior numbers the 8th set about dismembering the Falcon Cluster with extreme prejudice.
Leganes
Starting from well back behind the border the 2nd Donegal Guards redirected itself towards Leganes after discovering the Exiles had taken Arcturus. The understrength 6th Mixed Cluster was barely an afterthought for the RCT leaving the 2nd free to begin retaking Lyran worlds.
Skye
SaKhan Pryde’s forces on Skye were at just over 55% strength and quietly confident after repelling the Dominion assault. It was a grim realisation when the incoming Lyran RCT was detected. Leutnant-General Bergstrom was pleasantly surprised to discover the expected Dominion troops were nowhere to be seen. Expecting to fight three full strength Clusters the 11th Donegal Guards and Nekkar DPM made a cautious approach until they started finding signs of the earlier battle. Bergstrom played a hunch and moved directly on New Glasgow and major industrial centres. Faced with losing the planet without a fight and unwilling to begin a guerrilla campaign Pryde attacked the Nekka DPM. The militia unit managed to hold out long enough for the 11th to arrive and turn the tide of battle. All three Clusters would be destroyed in place with SaKhan Pryde captured and sent to Tharkad to be charged with war crimes.
Units Involved
Jade Falcon
Unit % Exp
Raptor Keshik 10 1 Falcon Space
Turkina Keshik 0 1 Alpha
8th Falcon Dragoons 0 3 Alpha
6th Falcon Dragoons 0 2 Alpha
7th Falcon Striker 0 1 Alpha
12th Falcon Jaegers 20 3 Alpha Falcon Space
1st Falcon Jaegers 15 1 Epsilon Falcon Space
5th Falcon Talon 0 2 Epsilon
9th Falcon Striker 0 3 Epsilon
8th Falcon Velites 0 2 Epsilon
13 Falcon Dragoons 0 3 Epsilon
7th Falcon Hussars 0 2 Vau
8th Falcon Hussars 0 2 Vau
14th Falcon Jaegers 0 2 Vau
15th Falcon Jaegers 0 3 Vau
2nd Mixed 0 3 Vau
124th Falcon Striker 0 1 Zeta
12th Falcon Hussars 0 3 Zeta
3rd Falcon Velites 0 2 Zeta
10th Falcon Talon 0 3 Zeta
1st Mixed 0 4 Zeta
4th Falcon Striker 0 2 Omega
75th Falcon Striker 0 3 Omega
2nd Falcon Dragoons 0 3 Omega
9th Falcon Velites 0 3 Omega
6th Mixed 0 3 Omega
8th PGC 0 3 Kappa
10th PGC 0 4 Kappa
1st Falcon Swoop 0 4 Kappa
4th Mixed 0 3 Kappa
78th PGC 30 3 Rho Falcon Space
5th Mixed 0 4 Rho
Rasalhague Dominion
Unit % Exp
332nd Assault 49 1 Beta Sudeten
14th Battle 91 2 Beta Sudeten
18th Battle 69 3 Beta Sudeten
140th Striker 90 2 Beta Sudeten
243rd Battle 10 2 Rho Dominion Space
283rd Battle 15 2 Rho Dominion Space
300th Battle 29 3 Rho Pandora
343rd Battle 33 4 Rho Pandora
1st Tyr Assault 48 1 Rasalhague Sudeten
2nd Tyr Assault 41 2 Rasalhague Sudeten
Gunzburg Eagles 49 2 Rasalhague Sudeten
1st Drakøn 40 1 Tundra Pandora
2nd Drakøn 64 3 Tundra Pandora
3rd Drakøn 61 2 Tundra Pandora
1st Hussars 70 3 Tundra Pandora
3rd Hussars 61 2 Tundra Pandora
5th Bear Guards 10 2 Omega Dominion Space
3rd Bear Regulars 10 2 Omega Dominion Space
2nd Vega Regulars 19 3 Omega Alphecca
Lyran Commonwealth
Unit % Exp
1st Wolf Guards 51 1 Apostica
3rd Wolf Guards 61 2 Apostica
8th Lyran Guards 34 4 Izar
The Dioscuri (m) 36 3 Edasich
11th Donegal Guards 60 2 Skye
Nekkar DPM 60 4 Skye
2nd Donegal Guards 79 4 Leganes
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The Bears need to eat more Horse manure.... like a CHH raid in here. Otherwise, good report Jellico.
TT
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The Bears need to eat more Horse manure.... like a CHH raid in here. Otherwise, good report Jellico.
TT
I dunno, the horses have been making overtures twords the bears. If anything its a chance to get back new oslo while also taking revenge on the falcons for using them.
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I dont see the Dominion giving up New Oslo. Its an original Rasalhague world and giving it away seems like a great way to piss off the citizens as it could be easily twisted to fly in the face of the Dominion being founded for the good of the Rasalhagian people, maybe even re-spark Motstand. "See, we told you not to trust the clanners, theyre just using us and trade away their 'family' when it suits them" type stuff.
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Can always take it back later ;)
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Wasn't it Uncle Chandy who made the Ghost Bears believe that the Blakists were harboring the survivors of Clan Wolverine?
You're right. It was Chandy who passed along and/or made up Parradeau's journal.
The Bears took independent action against the Blakies before joining Stone's coalition. Some of that -- like breaking the Blakie blockade of Tukayyid -- was driven by the desire to bring more Rasalhagians under Bear protection. The rest seemed to be in reaction to (apparent in some cases) Blakie WMD atrocities at Radstadt, and later Cebalrai and Luthien. Early Bear actions against Blakies seemed driven security concerns -- ridding their peoples, worlds, and borders of unstable Blakie elements.
Stone enlisted the Bears' help in September 3075, at which point the Bears start driving rimward towards Terra instead of securing their Coreward peoples and borders. Not certain whether the journal and Not-Named hunting were part of those discussions. But given how inward-facing the Bears are and especially were at that time, I have to think the journal and Not-Named were the driver behind the Bears joining Stone. It's one thing to secure your peoples and borders. It's another to wage an expeditionary war in the opposite direction on behalf of other peoples and someone you just met. Without the possibility that Not-Named were among the Blakies and the fear that other Clans would find out that the Bears had harbored Wolverine survivors centuries ago, I don't think the Bears had a solid reason to join Stone.
I think... as always with the fuzzy Jihad, YMMV.
Lets be clear. The Falcons are stuffed. As soon as the Lyrans pick up this kind of attack is underway they will be in on it. The Horses have no incentive to back the Falcons.
It's interesting how the Horses are written up in FM: 3145. Khan Gottfried Amirault is described as a political animal, which fits with rebuffing Bear and Lyran overtures and sitting out their Falcon campaign, at least initially. But FM: 3145 also mentions that Amirault is seeking Bear allies to replace the Falcon alliance and that a couple Horse galaxies have been positioned for a drive on Sudeten. It appears that the Horses would join with the Bears against the Falcons, if asked, and would probably initiate such discussions themselves.
The more interesting problem I found is whether the Dominion can GAIN from it. Remember they have to do more than win. They have to have a surviving army that can defend against the Lyrans, Horses, or Combine.
If Amirault and the Horses do want to ally with the Bears against the Falcons, that would seem to secure that border.
The Elsies can contribute to taking down the Falcons, but they don't seem to be in a position to take on a Clan on their own. Even if they were, their priority would be reclaiming Elsie worlds from Wolves. So a future Bear border with the Elsies would also seem secure.
The Combine is the major threat for the Bears, and that border has to be fortified above others. Logically, the Bears should have a contingency in place with their Raven allies so that if one clan is attacked by the Combine, the other will initiate an offensive (or at least raids) on the other side of the Combine.
Rethinking a Republic resurgent plotline, I'd have the Bears sideline the Combine with the Ravens, the Horses sideline the Falcons with the Bears, the Elsies sideline the Wolves with the Republic, and the FedRats sideline the Cappies with the Republic.
The Bears went into Vega to support the Republic. That was the claim anyway. I have assumed that they support the Republic concept and would be receptive to a fight back.
Khan Bekker certainly supports the Republic outwardly. But I sometimes wonder if Omega's "defection" wasn't plausible deniability, and that underneath the Care Bear and traditionally inward-facing Bear pelts, there's not some old-fashioned Crusaderism roiling around.
Plot-wise, it's hard to ignore that the three most powerful Spheroid clans have all been positioned on the Republic's doorstep in advance of whatever happens in ilClan. That's obviously not an accident.
I am not sure that it is public that the Bears (and by extension the Clans) were played so I am not sure what bearing that would have on anything.
I'm not even saying that the Bears have to know or feel that they were played. I'm just saying that the main reason for the Bears to have joined Stone's coalition and the drive on Blakie-held Terra must have been Parradeau's journal and the Not-Named threat. Absent the Not-Named, I'm not sure the Bears would have a strong reason to once again come to Stone's aid.
It could be Bekker's admiration for the Republic. But I don't know how deep that goes amongst the traditionally inward-facing Bears and their Rasalhagian populace. I'm not sure that reason is strong enough for the Bears to once again wipe out several of their own galaxies in someone else's war.
I might go the Care Bear route. Have Malvina overreach and commit some WMD atrocity that can't be ignored -- maybe against a Horse invasion -- and have the Bears feel compelled to respond, probably with some prodding by the Republic. Heck, taking down Malvina after an unforgivable Not-Named-like WMD act could even be a unifying purpose for the Clans ahead of taking out the Republic and establishing an ilClan on Terra.
Random musings... FWIW...
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Can always take it back later ;)
That is Falcon level backstabbery.
I would rather invite the Horses to go halvesies on Sudeten.
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Id rather share new oslo..they get the half that doesnt produce mechs ;)
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Would create a very interesting dynamic were the Bears and Horses to share a world.
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Would create a very interesting dynamic were the Bears and Horses to share a world.
We did once, remember Strana Mechty?
TT
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Sharing tokasha didnt work out so well :(
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Sharing tokasha didnt work out so well :(
they have grown up since then.....
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Operation Jörmungandr
Khan Malvina Hazen would never know just how close to salvaging the situation SaKhan Pryde had come at Skye. With more transport assets he might have been able to mobilise more Clusters and prevent them being defeated in detail. Had the Lyrans not intervened he would certainly have been able to take the war to the Vega protectorate.
Coreward Hazen had commandeered all available JumpShips to deal with her own problems. As early as Wave 3 of Operation Polly she had begun preparing her return to Sudeten. It would take two months for her couriers to reach her most distant Clusters and a further three for them to make their arrangements and join Hazen at Graus.
The gains on the Coventry front would have to be abandoned. Delta Galaxy would hold the line between Arc Royal and Great X. Likewise the three operational Clusters of Rho would have to hold the entire Hell’s Horses’ border. This gave Hazen one frontline and two second line Galaxies plus the 8th Falcon regulars to retake Sudeten and Pandora.
The biggest problem was the presence of the battleship Rasalhague. Hazen’s five operational WarShips would at best equal the battleship in combat. The reality was her invasion force would probably suffer similar casualties in space whether her WarShips were there or not.
Khan Hazen needed either draw off the battleship or cheaply defeat it. To achieve the latter massed nuclear weapons seemed to offer the best chance. At the very least it would force the battleship away from her invasion force. To achieve the former Star Admiral Von Jankmon offered a possibility that might draw off Rasalhague but would also guarantee a satisfying revenge against the Dominion.
It would take a month of further preparations to get her warriors into position but the 1st of April 3147 Hazen’s revenge could begin.
Wave 1 (1st April 3147)
The Rasalhague Dominion was on edge. It has been three months since major combat with the Jade Falcons. The Lyrans had started reclaiming worlds on the Coventry Front in December and reported no sign of the Falcons anti-spinward of Arc Royal. Initiative had been well and truly surrendered to the Falcons. Hunter patrols had revealed a build-up on Graus but none of the Falcon WarShips had been seen since January raising the question of how did the Falcons intend to get past Rasalhague?
Dominion Front
Star Admiral Von Jankmon’s plan called for deep penetration raids by WarShips into the Rasalhague Dominion. This in turn called for cutting across the Hell’s Horses occupation Zone but after the disabling of the Butler Yards Khan Hazen didn’t particularly care. The time for revenge was nigh.
New Oslo
The Jade Star made up of Jade Aerie and Jade Talon arrived at the New Oslo Le Grange point on the 11th of March and immediately began burning towards the planet, arriving on the 1st of April. The aerospace focused 55th PGC rose up to meet them in orbit. Outnumbered and out gunned the 55th managed to down 40% of the Falcon’s aerospace fighters before the survivors retreated to hidden bunkers to wait out the inevitable invasion. Instead the WarShips began to bombard the world starting with Manufacturing Site #3 before moving on to Albany. Civilian casualties were estimated at three million, mostly in Albany. With that the Jade Star began its burn away from New Oslo and onto its next target.
Satalice
Made up of White Aerie and Blue Talon the White Star arrived in Satalice’s atmosphere on the 1st of April. With no defenders the local governor made contact to discuss terms. Star Admiral Von Jankmon ignored her and began the bombardment of the GK&T facilities at Ascencius. The WarShips then proceeded to level Dranga causing millions of casualties. Burning away from Satalice the Falcons failed to notice a JumpShip already at the Nadir point jumping away.
Wave 2 (22nd April 3147)
It would take time for news of the Falcons attacks to spread. Without HPGs the Dominion had to rely upon JumpShip couriers. It would provide the cover the Falcons needed to reach their next targets.
Dominion Front
The Jade Star had taken significant losses and some consideration was given to retreating. However so deep Spinward it would be some months before the cruisers could re-join the Falcon touman in a meaningful way. For now they would be better served by continuing to raid the Dominion.
On the other hand the undamaged White Star faced an uneventful two jumps until it reached its next target. After the success of Satalice Star Admiral Von Jankmon had reason to feel confident. His main concern was how to stay ahead of Rasalhague when it inevitably began hunting them.
Alshain
A single JumpShip had observed the White Star at Satalice and rushed straight to Alshain. For a week the planet digested the fate of Satalice while the high command tried to guess where the WarShips might show up next. Then the White Star arrived at the Zenith point and destroyed the recharge station. There was no ambiguity about the Falcon’s intentions. No quarter would be asked and none would be given. With significant orbital assets there could be no question of meeting the Falcons in orbit. Instead they would try and intercept the Falcons just as they ceased their deceleration burn.
Using DropShips to extend their range the aerospace elements of the 2nd Valkyrie and elite command Trinaries managed to make the intercept. Unfortunately this put them a mere 20 minutes from weapon range to the Tseng Facility.
Star Admiral Von Jankmon accepted that this would be a major battle that he could well lose, but gave orders to accelerate towards the Alshain orbital complexes relying upon his WarShip’s armour to hold out against the aerospace fighters. This hope evaporated minutes later when Blue Talon was torn apart by nuclear hellfire. Outnumbered his own fighters could not effectively screen his WarShips. Seeing the next attack breaking through the fighter screen Von Jankmon accepted the inevitable and gave the order to abandon ship. Nonetheless White Aerie was still firing when three warheads smashed into its port side. None penetrated catastrophically but the explosions stripped the armour and did massive damage to the ship. This alone allowed most of the crew to escape. Von Jankmon would not be one of them.
Rasalhague
No news from New Oslo had escaped yet when the Jade Star arrived at Rasalhague and destroyed the Nadir recharge station. The 1st Kavalleri and 6th Valkyrie followed standard doctrine and met the Jade Star just out of orbit.
On paper the Falcons should have had an advantage but the Dominion forces were far more skilled. 50 Falcon fighters were quickly swarmed by the 130 Dominion fighters who bore on to the WarShips. With Jade Talon breaking up the Jade Aerie angled itself across Rasalhague’s upper atmosphere and opened it throttles to full. Venting atmosphere and losing control Jade Aerie unleased three broadsides at the surface before breaking free of the atmosphere and accelerating away. Caught by surprise the Dominion defenders wasted vital minutes before beginning their pursuit. Over the next few hours Jade Aerie could be seen regaining hull integrity and control but ultimately the aerospace fighters had to give up the chase. There was now a badly damaged but still functional hostile cruiser loose inside the Dominion.
On Rasalhague the random spray of autocannon fire smashed across Ophiuchi with rounds hitting Reykjavik, Ptolemy in the middle of the GK&T facility, and Cordoba. Several other smaller cities and towns were hit with varying degrees of destruction. Casualties were in the thousands, though thankfully nowhere received the sustained bombardments of New Oslo and Satalice.
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More good stuff, J. I gotta think these kinds of clan-on-clan orbital bombardments, especially post-Jihad & WoR, would draw Trials of Absorption/Annihilation from the Council of Six. Guess we'll find out in this timeline...
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In the words of a great man...that escalated quickly
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Let me start by saying that all Clans are vulnerable to being decapitation by invasion or otherwise. They have no strategic depth.
Malvina is out of options and time. She is down to Butler (JumpShips), Erewhon, and whatever Eagle Craft can build her. That means that she is on Sea Fox credit and would you go easy on her? Half her touman is dead. The Lyrans are coming, because why wouldn't they. She needs Sudeten or her Clan dies.
Part of this turned into an exercise on what a stray WarShip could do. I usually figure 60-80 Clan medium ASF to drop a naked Aegis. How many worlds have that cover? On important worlds I would have a line where the nules come out. For an Alshain or Rasalhauge that would be about 2 Aegis which is about the limit of the defenders. It might not be canon but after the DA I would assume that every faction would do the same thing.
Oh I am not sure that I have mentioned it but the battles have all been gamed out with a simple 1 Mech kills 1 Mech spreadsheet. Add some skill modifiers etc. Eg 2 Clusters vs 1 Cluster the small force gets wipes and the big force takes 25% losses.
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More good stuff, J. I gotta think these kinds of clan-on-clan orbital bombardments, especially post-Jihad & WoR, would draw Trials of Absorption/Annihilation from the Council of Six. Guess we'll find out in this timeline...
I'm not so sure. As of the Dark Age, the Council has about as much relevance as ComStar.
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My impression of the Council of Six... based on the drips and drabs we've had on it... is that it has about as much political clout as a flea. It's a glorified swap meet where those few Clanners who still pay more than lip service to their shared past can meet and trade bloodlines and technical specs.
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My impression of the Council of Six... based on the drips and drabs we've had on it... is that it has about as much political clout as a flea. It's a glorified swap meet where those few Clanners who still pay more than lip service to their shared past can meet and trade bloodlines and technical specs.
I'm not so sure. As of the Dark Age, the Council has about as much relevance as ComStar.
Yes, the Council of Six went from authorizing Clan support for Stone and the Republic during the Jihad to being a ceremonial body represented by each Khan's designee during the Dark Ages.
What I was getting at is that the orbital bombardment of Clan capitals in Jellico's plotline isn't that far removed from Dehra Dun getting nuked by the Not-Named (or whoever pinned it on the Not-Named). I'd have to think that either the Horses or the Wolves (or both) would use that as pretext to call for a Trial of Absorption or Annihilation.
Maybe that would happen someplace other than the Council of Six in the late Dark Age timeframe. Maybe the Horses or Wolves would just declare the trial without the agreement of the other clans.
But it's hard to see how clan-on-clan WMD or orbital bombardment would not be met with absorption or annihilation (or at least the attempt), even if just for political gain, especially given the official history behind the Not-Named, the not-so-distant Jihad, and how the Spheroid Clans shut down contact with the Homeworlds Clans after the Wars of Reaving.
FWIW...
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Or it might be a case of the other Clans viewing the Falcons as reaping what they have sown.
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I'm not so sure. As of the Dark Age, the Council has about as much relevance as ComStar.
Ouch, that hurts. It's TRUE, but it still hurts.
I'm going to go stare into an empty glass for a while now. Call me when something blows up.
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Wave 3 (29th April 3147)
Khan Hazen allowed for a month after the initial WarShip strikes to give the Dominion every chance to dispatch Rasalhague. If they didn’t she wasn’t too worried. There were other targets to hit and her invasion force had long since been dispatched.
Sudeten Front
Sudeten may have had a battleship in orbit but Pandora didn’t. Hitting the world was relatively easy and by attaching the corvette Jade Tornado would act as bait for Rasalhague two jumps away. Better yet with a 68-day transit time to the Jump Point Pandora would be a trap for any forces the Dominion sent to relieve it. The transit time would make the Pandora campaign something of a time capsule. Communications could be sent to and from JumpShips at the jump points in relative real time, and JumpShip could leave from relatively close to the planet. But any incoming troops would be trapped for months unable to have any effect on the war beyond Pandora. The Falcons had an advantage in that they could time their arrival to coordinate with the rest of Wave 3, but from then on they were under the same difficulties as everyone else.
Pandora
Galaxy Commander Terje Hembre expected the Falcons to attack with WarShip support and he wasn’t disappointed. He made no attempt to use his aerospace fighters to intercept the Falcons in orbit. He simply lacked the numbers to make a fight of it. The Clusters under Hembres command were dispersed and hidden so not in any immediate danger of bombardment. Thus Galaxy Commander Ernest Binetti found himself in the odd position of having taken Pandora without a shot being fired, yet there still being more than a Galaxy of hostile troops on world.
On the 6th of May an incoming message from a JumpShip was detected by the Watch. Then an outbound message, though its location could not be triangulated. The rest of the Dominion now knew that Pandora were under attack.
The Falcons themselves first come under attack when a force of 1st Hussars ‘Mechs hit the space port under cover of darkness. The Trinary of fast ‘Mechs overwhelmed the perimeter ‘Mechs before targeting the hangers. 30 aerospace fighters of the 51st Garrison and 7th Mixed Cluster would be destroyed before the ‘Mechs raced towards Deliverance. Here they would be lost in the clutter of the city’s buildings. It would be later determined that ‘Mechs slipped into the harbour and made their way out to sea.
Wave 4 (20th May 3147)
Months of work had come down to this. Anti-spinward the Lyrans were pushing Delta Galaxy back from Great X. Khan Gottfried Amirault was wanting an explanation for the destruction on New Oslo. The Dominion was engaging in a guerrilla campaign on Pandora. Khan Hazen had to retake Sudeten. She was out of troops and out of time.
Diplomacy
Khan Gottfried Amirault was not a happy Khan. He had been offered New Oslo by the Jade Falcons, but now he was receiving reports that they had bombarded the world to irrelevance from orbit. Equally worrying were reports of the bombardment of other Dominion worlds. Khan Amirault’s own troops had experience of bombardment at the hands of the Falcons and he was fast running out of patience with Khan Hazen’s loose application of the Mongol Doctrine. Amirault brought this up with a Falcon envoy who dismissed the Khan’s concerns and warned that the Horses should mind their own business. Amirault approved the invasion of Butler, Erewhon and Somerset that afternoon.
Dominion Front
Jade Aerie was alone, in major need of repair with no DropShips or aerospace fighters but Star Admiral Sender was determined continue the mission. Jade Aerie still had weapons and as long as he picked his targets it should be safe.
Spittal
Jade Aerie was detected three days burn out at the Zenith Jump Point. The green 4th Freemen had to overcome the realisation that a WarShip was coming their way but they managed to get a Binary of aerospace fighters into orbit on an intercept course.
The resulting battle was almost comical. The Freemen were not trained to attack a WarShip and the Jade Aerie barely had any functional weapons. Sender tried to replicate his tactics at Rasalhague and sprayed a salvo across the surface of Spittal mostly hitting the sparsely populated Grampians. As Jade Aerie began to pull away from Spittal one of the fighters managed to score a hit in Jade Aerie’s aft that cascaded into her engines. Losing all thrust the battle cruiser continued drifting away from Spittal. The surviving Freemen continued to pick away at the Jade Aerie for another hour before losses and fuel forced them to turn back. A DropShip was dispatched from Spittal to track her down, but again the Jade Aerie disappeared.
Sudeten Front
The fighting on Pandora existed in a bubble. The long transit time from the Jump Points meant any outside actions would take months to have an influence. Rather than send Rasalhague the Dominion sent a pair of Odysseys loaded with carrier and assault DropShips. For the Falcons on world they knew something hostile had arrived from the radio traffic, but they couldn’t know what or if it even stayed in system. So they lived in fear of an imaginary battleship while their warriors fought a slow grinding war on the ground.
On Graus Khan Hazen was finally ready to attack Sudeten. The moment of decision had come.
Pandora
The past few weeks had been one of cat and mouse. The Falcons tried to find Tundra Galaxy and call down bombardment from Jade Talon where they could. Most worryingly they could not find Tundra’s aerospace fighters. Tundra did its best to avoid combat. Tracking Jade Talon in the sky and moving at night they were mostly successful. The Falcons had moved their fighters to DropShips in orbit so any further raids by Tundra were out of the question, or where they?
At dawn on the 31st of May the 1st and 3rd Hussars hit the 51st Mixed Cluster’s laager. Within 20 minutes it was clear that this would be a major battle and the Hussars would not be retreating. Jade Tornado vectored to intercept. Suddenly she detected a heat bloom on the surface. 60 Aerospace fighters were in bound and minutes away. Calls were put out to Iota’s Carrier DropShips in orbit on the other side of Pandora. Vital minutes ticked by. The first of Jade Tornado’s fighters launched to join the CAP. The Falcon and Dominion fighters met and began their fatal dance. The WarShip itself opened its throttles and began to put space between itself and the battle. Then a group of fighters broke free and began to engage Jade Talon directly. Easily entering its rear arc they tore into its engineering compartments leaving the ship drifting. The escorting Carrier class DropShip tried to interfere and died in moments for no effect as Jade Talon’s aft continued to collapse. Only when escape pods started to launch and the corvette began to break up did the pounding stop.
A Trinary of damaged Tundra fighters remained to hold the field. These in turn streaked towards the surface with Iota’s fighters less than an hour behind. This time there would be no hiding as the Tundra fighters set down at a rural landing strip on Nirvana. Iota’s fighters streaked down looking to strafe their enemies on the ground. Instead they ran into a SAM trap as the 2nd Drakøn opened up with missiles and Arrow IVs. Actual Iota casualties were few, but they were prevented from attacking the grounded fighters. As the remains of the 51st Mixed died under the guns of the Hussars, the nature of the battle changed. Tundra Galaxy had gained air parity while having double the ground troops. Now it was Iota’s turn to hide.
Sudeten
Orbital mechanics dictated the date of Hazen’s liberation of Sudeten. On the 29th of May fifteen JumpShips materialised at a pirate point in the wake of Saar. Carriers, Claymores, Auroras, and Unions X DropShips detached, as aerospace fighters launched in clouds. Unfortunately orbital mechanics ensured Rasalhague was already there. The battleship reached out and DropShips began to flash out of existence while JumpShips waddled clear of the battlefield. Hundreds of fighters swirled in vast clouds. Unseen in the blackness nuclear warheads detonated as dying Falcon bombers unleased on aerospace fighters to at least kill something.
And then the second fleet arrived. The swirling eddies of magnetic fields left in the wake of Sule formed into a pirate point just as they had for her sister moon. The Dominion planned for this and had stationed a force of eight DropShips there to screen it, but the fleet that arrived would overwhelm them with ease. Ten Clusters of varying strength were thrusting towards Sudeten eight hours away. On the far side of Sudeten Rasalhague disengaged and raced back to intercept Hazen with the first Falcon fleet chasing it the whole way.
Just before the Falcons hit Sudeten’s atmosphere a wave of Dominion fighters from the seven Clusters on world rose up to meet them while Rasalhague appeared over Sudeten’s horizon. Sixteen DropShips fell and burned in Sudeten’s upper atmosphere but a full 80% of Hazen’s force made it to the surface intact. Grounding on the plains outside Hammarr the Falcons scurried into the cover provided by the city while their DropShips scattered to hide where they could.
Vastly outnumbered the garrisoning Dominion 14th Battle Cluster made no attempt to fight and retreated out of the city to join the 33nd Assault at Salzberg. Already the rest of the Dominion Clusters were converging in DropShips. The Falcons may have abandoned their DropShips but this was their world and they knew where every cache and ammo dump was. The 3rd mixed Cluster was sending out scavenging parties to secure sources of resupply while the 8th Falcon Regulars secured the space port.
In space the Dominion had won the battle though at great cost. Less than half of Rasalhague’s fighter bays were occupied while the ship itself had been struck by two nuclear weapons scrambling its sensors. The idea of levelling Hammarr from orbit was briefly considered but then abandoned. If nothing else it may have convinced the Lyrans to reconsider their alliance of convenience. Instead the battleship left for Alshain and repair. An orbital watch was placed on Hammarr and the siege begun.
On the 5th of June Hammarr space port began combat operations with a probing air attack on the DropShips laagered around Salzberg. Looking to conserve their aerospace fighters the Dominion responded with a missile strike from their attendant Polaris DropShip.
Disabling the space port would become the Dominion’s primary focus over the next month. While they have a very slight advantage in troops the Falcons had a slight advantage in air power. The Dominion would bombard the space port whenever they had the ammunition, slowly whittling away the Falcons aerospace fighters in their bunkers. In return the Falcons would mass their ground troops and try and break out of the cordon around Hammarr. Only the rapid response and profligate use of air power would seal these breaches whittling down the Dominion’s forces in turn.
In this battle of attrition, the Dominion had the advantage of remaining in control of space around Sudeten. While fresh troops were rare regular convoys brought shiploads of supplies, munitions, and new ‘Mechs to keep their troops fighting. Reliance on firepower and mass bombardment would be the order of the day.
The Falcons lacked materiel but they had troops. A few public hangings on the first days of the siege convinced Hammarr’s population of the permanence of Khan Hazen’s rule and Clusters of “volunteers” were organised and armed with anything available. Given that this was the Falcon’s capital world this was less draconian than it sounds and a ready supply of tested out and ex-warriors were on hand to fill gaps in the regular Clusters. Though an occasional brave DropShip made it through the Dominion cordon, salvage would be the order of the day and the Falcon force actually increased in number (though quality dropped) as the Dominion force wilted.
Wave 5 (1st July 3147)
On the Coventry Front Delta Galaxy had been flanked and overrun as the Lyrans pushed their advantage. The Hell’s Horses had pushed Rho Galaxy aside and were spreading out across the coreward side of the Falcon OZ from the industrial centres of Butler and Erewhon.
Clan Jade Falcon was dying. Khan Hazen might have been able to eke out a victory against the Dominion and use Zellbrigen to enforce a peace, but that wouldn’t stop the Lyrans as had been shown at Skye. Hazen needed Sudeten and she needed to get her remaining troops if she was to have any hope of convincing the Lyrans to cease their assault. A Trial was the only way out. But would the Dominion allow it.
Dominion Front
Jade Aerie attacked and captured an Invader and its DropShips off Goito on the 30th of June. News of the Horses’ entry into the war and the stalemate on Sudeten was not what Star Admiral Sender wanted to hear. With no clear way for his Clan to emerge victorious his options were surrender or to hurt his enemies as gravely as possible. He chose the latter.
Alshain
On the 14th of July a navigational buoy detected a very large mass moving at very high speed two days out from Alshain. Follow up scans revealed it to be a Black Lion class battlecruiser coming in fast and cold on a collision course with Alshain. Lacking time to redirect the cruiser or any craft with the mass to deflect it, the only choice was to try and shred the cruiser, deflect what they could and hope Alshain’s atmosphere could burn up the rest.
Every aerospace fighter available was loaded into any DropShip that could launch a fighter and sent to intercept the cruiser. That was when the fast moving Invader was detected on a different approach path. Faced with a second target Alshain command had to split its force to not only engage both targets but retain a reserve in case a third craft appeared.
Six hours out from Alshain the defenders engaged. Out of thirty nukes launched at the cruiser only eighteen survived impact long enough to detonate. Fifteen hit the Invader. Both ships came apart in an instant becoming an ever expanding field of fast moving debris. Unable to do any more the fighters returned to their DropShips and began the trip back to Alshain.
On Alshain the debris was scanned for larger chunks, civilians were sent to bomb shelters and castles Brian. The members of government were lifted off world and everyone waited.
At 11:13 on the 16th of July the Anti-Missile Systems on the civilian naval years chattered into life as the first debris field crossed its equatorial orbit. Despite this multiple hull breaches were reported and an Odyssey suffered an explosion in the dockyard before the yards moved clear.
The sky over Alshain lit up as the debris field hit the atmosphere. Flaming streaks filled the sky for an hour, before dimming then starting up again as the second field hit. While the world was spared an extinction level event many large objects made it to the surface. Bunjil and Swan especially were peppered with a string of craters. One of the training fields at Jorgensson Combat School was hit with the shockwave levelling buildings at the main compound. Bergan Industries took a direct hit. The hardened structure survived with shock damage to the equipment within. Bergan City wasn’t so lucky with extensive damage to its outer suburbs. Four other cities across Alshain would be damaged not counting smaller towns. The final death toll would be estimated at only one hundred and fifty thousand thanks to safety measures. Property damage would leave millions homeless.
Using the DropShips they had captured earlier Star Admiral Sender and the crew of Jade Aerie attempted to board the JumpShip Sigmund at the Alshain Nadir point one week later but the crew blew the jump core seals. Captured they were taken to Alshain for trial. Remarkably Sender successfully fought a Trial of Refusal and Jade Aerie’s entire crew was placed in protective custody.
Sudeten Front
Combat on Pandora had been dragging on since April with neither side able to gain an advantage over the other. Neither side was receiving supplies and Red Devil Industries and Quikscell had ceased operation. With better prepared positions this suited the Dominion more. But it would only take a small slip to shift the balance.
On Sudeten the situation had reached a critical mass. Khan Hazen needed a victory and was prepared to achieve it.
Pandora
As the fighting on Pandora dragged on it became a question of the hearts and minds of the civilians. Pandora had changed hands between the Falcons and Lyrans repeatedly over the last fifty years so there were elements of resistance. The Dominion had a reputation as a reasonable occupier while the Falcons had long made clear the fate of those who would betray it. Typically, the natives served whoever had a ‘Mech standing over them at that minute.
Wary of the Falcons combining their three remaining Clusters the Dominion established a firebase at the space port and began operating patrols in force. The Falcons nominally had space superiority because they still had their Carrier DropShips in orbit, but neither side was willing to face the other.
The Falcons finally took the bait on the 3rd of July when they ambushed the 2nd and 3rd Drakøn. The 1st Drakøn, 1st and 3rd Hussars immediately sortied hoping to catch the Falcons while both sides put their full aerospace assets in the air. The Dominion found the 2nd and 3rd Drakøn dug in and surrounded. With a confrontation expected there was no surprise to be gained and 3rd Falcon and 5th Talon broke off to engage. Tired of months of fighting both sides fought to achieve a result and no quarter was given. When the dust settled the Dominion held the ground though all five Clusters were shattered.
Sudeten
On the 1st of July Khan Hazen marched out of Hammarr to seek parley. Her offer was simple. A Trial of Possession for Sudeten involving single combat between herself and the Dominion’s champion. For Loremaster Hans Kabrinski the offer was farcical. Hazen’s reputation preceded her and after the loss of Skye, Kabrinski had no desire to risk the one major gain of the campaign.
Even as Khan Hazen marched back to Hammarr the Falcons began to move. The complete mass of Lambda Galaxy pushed out against the 2nd Tyr Assault. Falling back, it was all the 2nd Tyr could do not to be overrun by the swarm of light vehicles. As Lambda secured the flanks Gamma Galaxy pushed through the centre of the line and headed towards the Dominion DropShips. The Rasalhague Clusters started a running battle parallel to the Falcons, prevented from directly attacking Gamma Galaxy by the flanking Lambda Galaxy. As aerospace fighters clashed above the rest of the Rasalhague Galaxy moved to support the 2nd Tyr while Beta Galaxy had to travel around Hammarr to avoid any traps the Falcons may have set.
When the direction of the Falcon assault became known Loremaster Kabrinski immediately ordered the Dominion DropShips to lift off. Launch would take 45 minutes and the lead elements of the Falcons would be there in 20. Needing to buy time Kabrinski called down what remained of his orbital CAP, achieving air superiority, though none of the fighters immediately available was armed for ground support.
When the lead elements of Gamma Galaxy arrived at the Dominion firebase they stumbled into an ant’s nest of supplies and equipment. Technicians scattered everywhere as the first DropShips fired their engines and began to lift off. Faced with being overrun the DropShips began firing on the lightweight lead Falcons and in the melee it was inevitable that ammunition dumps and fuel supplies were hit with devastating results.
With the arrival of the heavier Gamma units the DropShips came under direct fire. First one, then another, then another burst into flames on the ground. Then a massive Mule was hit as it was clearing the firefight, crashing back down, crumpling onto defenders and attackers alike. In this devil’s kitchen of burning fuel and exploding munitions Khan Hazen’s Gamma Galaxy was slowly bringing order when Lambda units began racing through and out the other side. Hazen ordered those fleeing to be destroyed on sight when the main bulk of Lambda Galaxy backed into the dropzone under heavy fire. Beta Galaxy had arrived and together with the Rasalhague Galaxy were pushing Lambda back.
Strafed from above and cut off from Hammarr there was nowhere to run. All four Galaxies poured fire into each other in a close range melee. When it was over the smoke wouldn’t clear the battlefield for two weeks. All of the Dominion units were rendered combat ineffective, but the Falcons were annihilated. Khan Hazen’s Shrike was found but the Khan was not. It didn’t matter. With control of space and a Cluster’s worth of troops on the ground the Dominion controlled Sudeten.
Units Involved
Jade Falcon
Unit % Exp
1st Falcon Velites 0 1 Gamma Sudeten
3rd Falcon Talon 0 1 Gamma Sudeten
9th Falcon Talon 0 2 Gamma Sudeten
6th Falcon Striker 0 3 Gamma Sudeten
2nd Falcon Jaegers 0 3 Gamma Sudeten
3rd Falcon Swoop 0 3 Iota Pandora
5th Talon 0 3 Iota Pandora
51st Garrison 0 3 Iota Pandora
7th Mixed 0 4 Iota Pandora
22nd PGC 0 3 Lambda Sudeten
24th PGC 0 2 Lambda Sudeten
2nd Falcon Swoop 5 3 Lambda Sudeten
3rd Mixed 0 4 Lambda Sudeten
8th Falcon Regulars 5 2 Kappa Sudeten
Rasalhague Dominion
Unit % Exp
332nd Assault 13 1 Beta Sudeten
14th Battle 24 2 Beta Sudeten
18th Battle 18 3 Beta Sudeten
140th Striker 24 2 Beta Sudeten
1st Tyr Assault 13 1 Rasalhague Sudeten
2nd Tyr Assault 11 2 Rasalhague Sudeten
Gunzburg Eagles 13 2 Rasalhague Sudeten
1st Drakon 11 1 Tundra Pandora
2nd Drakon 17 3 Tundra Pandora
3rd Drakon 16 2 Tundra Pandora
1st Hussars 18 3 Tundra Pandora
3rd Hussars 16 2 Tundra Pandora
300th Battle 8 3 Rho Pandora
343rd Battle 9 4 Rho Pandora
Aftermath
On the 17th of July the Rasalhague Dominion Council declared a Trial of Annihilation against Clan Jade Falcon in the ruined suburbs of Bergan city. The politicians could not know that the task was already completed. As world of Khan Hazen’s fall spread the surviving pockets of Jade Falcon warriors fled into the arms of the Hell’s Horses or Dominion rather than face the oncoming Lyran Commonwealth. By the end of August, the Falcons would be no more.
To the victors went the spoils. The Horses did very well and secured from Barcelona to Antares to Leskovik with a minimum of fighting capturing the manufacturing centres of Butler and Erewhon. They diplomatically declined the Dominion’s offer of the ruined New Oslo earning much praise in the process.
The Lyrans secured from Lyons to Arcturus, to A Place and across to Newtown Square. There were calls to push on and into the Rasalhague Dominion however cooler heads pointed out this would leave the Commonwealth vulnerable on its other flanks. The wisdom of this was confirmed when the Horses chose to present a united diplomatic front with the Dominion.
For the Dominion the war was a disappointment. Despite defeating the majority of the Falcons in the Descant, failure to capture Skye meant handing over half of the Descant to the Lyrans. Sudeten and Pandora were notable victories but at the cost of gutting the touman. The Falcon’s strikes on Satalice, New Oslo, Rasalhague, and Alshain meant that the Dominion would be reliant on these captured worlds to resupply in the medium term. The touman itself remained combat ready. About a third had not seen combat in the war and was positioned to counter Combine adventurism. But it would be many years before offensive operations could be considered again. The population of the Dominion was in shock. Though only a few worlds had been hit, Jade Aerie’s cruise had shown how vulnerable the majority were to attack. Patriotism ran high, though many questioned the need for the war.
The payoff would come in 3150 when the Wall came down and Republic of the Sphere and the Federated Suns launched coordinated attacks on the overextended Draconis Combine. When the dust settled the Vega Protectorate would be handed back to the Republic and the Buckminster Prefecture released to Arkab, but the Irece and Albiero Prefectures as well as the anti-spinward worlds of the Bjarred and Kagoshima Prefectures would be in Dominion hands. Unfortunately, it would all mean nothing with the rise of the IlClan.
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I especially like the aerospace action on Pandora in Wave 4. It accurately portrays what I think a lot of BT planetary battles would actually be like. The ability to bring firepower anywhere on world or in orbit within minutes using aerospace fighters should dominate a lot of engagements, largely sidelining the mech/ground action. I could imagine a the launch countdown for the Dominion's 60 aerospace fighters as their intercept vector with the Jade Tornado finally aligned. The subsequent SAM trap was also nice.
Good job.
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When the Ghost Bears moved to the IS, did they take anything that would allow them to set up Kingfisher lines? Or has that design been lost to the Dominion?
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When the Ghost Bears moved to the IS, did they take anything that would allow them to set up Kingfisher lines? Or has that design been lost to the Dominion?
Well, they took mobile factories, some of which were lost to the Wolves in Exile in the Trial where the Bears won Ragnar Magnusson. But the MUL does have the Kingfisher as available to the Bears in the Dark Age era. So either there is a factory line or they have a sizable supply of Kingfishers.
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I would go with a big pile of surplus. Remember that there are Star League vintage Mechs still in service. It takes a long time for a Mech to wear out.
The existence of all Mech lines is purposely kept vague. Especially in the Homeworlds. The only confirmed Kingfisher line is on Strana Mechty and the owners aren't mentioned.
That said every Clan probably knows how to build a Kingfisher. They just don't have the rights to build a Kingfisher. Besides, why would you? It is a dated design. There are better options. Especially if you start fresh.
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I'd rather use an older proven design, that is tried and true. Sure it has that zombie effect, using standard tech that doesn't need much resources to produce. Than use something that would allow me almost twice the firepower but one and a half times more resources than I currently use.
What this means is for just 2 of the newer mechs, I can have three older models!
TT
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Besides, why would you?
Clan omni zombie mech. Aren't many of those, particularly in Dominion hands. A shame the Stooping Hawk can't be obtained by the Dominion anymore; that themed well with the Kingfisher (neither like to die).
I'd rather use an older proven design, that is tried and true, than use something that would allow me almost twice the firepower but one and a half times more resources than I currently use. Sure it has that zombie effect, using standard tech that doesn't need much resources to produce.
Yeah, there's a lot of survival for that BV. The speed also fits in with the general Dominion theme of mechs that move about faster than average for the weight class.
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Did the kingfisher get a ntnu update? Cant remember and im too lazy to grab laptop out. But i too shall express love for the little assault that could. Im a big fan of zombie designs, also i still think the bears need to design a new imp in honor of our founders. Why we seriously dont use more of that mech i don't know.
... Also more thugs.
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No, the newest version was the Kingfisher X.
Also, I just realised that one of the manufacturers of TSM is Bergan Industries.
Can we please finally get a Kodiak with TSM and actual claws?
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That Bergan plant is in the CC.
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That Bergan plant is in the CC.
Bah, details. I'm sure an agreement could be reached.
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Bah, details. I'm sure an agreement could be reached.
Like the Lyrans' agreement with the CC for the stealth armor tech?
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Like the Lyrans' agreement with the CC for the stealth armor tech?
Of course! Anything to get some angry bear claws.
Given the Bears' focus on strong warriors both in and out of the cockpit, to the point they passed on the aerospace phenotype, I would have expected them to be among the first Clans to start adopting physical attacks as an extension of this personal prowess ideal. Especially with the influence of the KungsArmé on their touman.
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I recall that deal ending badly. But if you want to see how much space and weight claws take up for proof of concept:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57457.0
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PPC weight for a melee weapon that can't be pod mounted. There is a reason we don't see it...
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PPC weight for a melee weapon that can't be pod mounted. There is a reason we don't see it...
Although on a Kodiak it does the same damage as an ERPPC. Put a pair on there, TSM it up to 5/8 speed and 30-point punches and go to town.
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But its got a +2 penalty on the hit, 1 inherent from the claw and 1 from the heat. Do punches have a hit bonus like kicks do? I dont remember.
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Id rather invest this energy into imps and thugs! Maybe omni them booth? Cause whats better than taking two great designs and making them horrible.
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But its got a +2 penalty on the hit, 1 inherent from the claw and 1 from the heat. Do punches have a hit bonus like kicks do? I dont remember.
Sadly, no, punches are only +0 THM.
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Punches have no to-hit bonus like kicks do, but they also don't have a PSR on a failed attack like kicks do. Even still, at +2 to-hit, for possibly two chances on the punch table, two 1/6 chances at decapitating the enemy 'Mech will get folks attention.
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Id rather invest this energy into imps and thugs! Maybe omni them booth? Cause whats better than taking two great designs and making them horrible.
I would rather invest in a Viper and Firemoth replacement.
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I would rather invest in a Viper and Firemoth replacement.
That would be nice as well. Perhaps a Kodiak with claws would best be found in an XTRO, while a Viper II and Super Fire Moth (Fire Moth II doesn't count...) would go in a regular version.
Would be nice to see an Executioner II with podded JJ and better armor allocation to the side torsos. Or maybe a variant with modular armor on the two side torsos? Would be quite useful.
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Been thinking a lighter unit might be better for the Claws. A TSM 45 tonner can still throw headcap punches. I'll have to tinker around with a Beowulf when I get home, it may be able to have AES too.
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That would be nice as well. Perhaps a Kodiak with claws would best be found in an XTRO, while a Viper II and Super Fire Moth (Fire Moth II doesn't count...) would go in a regular version.
Would be nice to see an Executioner II with podded JJ and better armor allocation to the side torsos. Or maybe a variant with modular armor on the two side torsos? Would be quite useful.
You mean like the Wulfen or Phantom? They don't hit 20 speed, but go pretty close.
The Viper hits 8/12/8 and has XL Engine, Ferro, and Endo, so there's no quick fixes there. What would a Viper II have? Better weapons configs? I'm just asking out of curiosity, not as a writer. Also, almost anything an Executioner II with podded JJ could do a Blood Asp with a supercharger should be able to do.
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The Viper hits 8/12/8 and has XL Engine, Ferro, and Endo, so there's no quick fixes there. What would a Viper II have? Better weapons configs?
XXL engine and a partial wing?
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Been thinking a lighter unit might be better for the Claws. A TSM 45 tonner can still throw headcap punches. I'll have to tinker around with a Beowulf when I get home, it may be able to have AES too.
A lighter unit? Brother, I don't think you appreciate the Ghost Bears. They're the Clan flush with resources; if a heavier mech can do the same job slightly less efficiently while costing more money, the Ghost Bears will be there. Their scout mech is 40 tons, after all; the Fire Moth is really just a BA transport.
You mean like the Wulfen or Phantom? They don't hit 20 speed, but go pretty close.
The Phantom is just an inferior Viper. The Wulfen has the problem of being a Wolf mech, and they're kinda far away as of 3145. Still, the Wulfen is cool and something of that similar "cool factor" would be nice for a new light Dominion mech. Maybe something like a 30-ton 9/14 with supercharger or MASC? It's a shame hardened armor can't be used on omnimechs; that would give the Dominion a slightly unique design. A light mech with much more armor than you would expect (or would be terribly optimal)? Sounds like the Ghost Bears.
The Viper hits 8/12/8 and has XL Engine, Ferro, and Endo, so there's no quick fixes there. What would a Viper II have? Better weapons configs? I'm just asking out of curiosity, not as a writer. Also, almost anything an Executioner II with podded JJ could do a Blood Asp with a supercharger should be able to do.
Good point on the Viper II; maybe using some of the new items available that can be put on omnis but not pod-mounted, like ferro-lamellor. Given the commonality of the PPC in DCMS hands, reflective armor might even be a decent choice. Maybe Harjel II/III on the torso locations.
Problem with the Blood Asp is that it isn't available to the IS Clans. Also, the Blood Asp doesn't have a MASC: I feel an Executioner II should still have 4/6 movement and MASC, because fast assault is so very much Ghost Bears.
XXL engine and a partial wing?
Partial wing is kind of a Jade Falcons thing, with some examples in Raven hands. Given their relations, I don't know if the Dominion would be able to get a good supply of them for production.
XXL engines have the issue of being a lot more heat intensive, which may not be the best thing for a mech already sporting 8 JJs. Maybe the unit could make use of some Radical HS purchased from the FS.
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Oh I meant the Phantom as a possible substitute for a Fire Moth replacement not for the Viper. A fast, ground bound Elemental transport and harasser. The Horses seem to have Blood Asps according to the MUL, so it wouldn't be that difficult in theory to get them or the design specs. While the Blood Asp doesn't have MASC, a supercharger does pretty much the same thing.
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Oh I meant the Phantom as a possible substitute for a Fire Moth replacement not for the Viper. A fast, ground bound Elemental transport and harasser. The Horses seem to have Blood Asps according to the MUL, so it wouldn't be that difficult in theory to get them or the design specs. While the Blood Asp doesn't have MASC, a supercharger does pretty much the same thing.
Huh, I wouldn't have thought the Hell's Horses would have that many Blood Asps. It's not on their RAT, so they may not actually have a factory of them.
Lacking a MASC prevents it from getting MASC + Supercharger for 107km/h running. Also, 95 tons happens to be rather optimal for 4/6 movement with an XL engine on assaults.
You know, we haven't see a Clan superheavy mech yet. Surely the Dominion would be the most likely Clan to build such a thing; they've got the resources to do it (they're building a Leviathan III, after all) and the history of making excessively large mechs (or at least favoring them). Hell, there's even a good name for it: Nanurluk, an Inuit monster bear the size of an iceburg.
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The sweet spot for a 10/15 XL Mech is 30 tons. Unfortunately the Wulfen is sitting in the middle of that. Unfortunately it suffers from poor configs.
The Phantom is over engined. IMHO the Viper offers a better movement profile.
90 tons is great for a std engined 4/6 Mech. 95 is slightly better for XL. We are dealing in half tons here. The extra weight means more cost but more durability.
I will put up my current thinking later in the day.
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The sweet spot for a 10/15 XL Mech is 30 tons. Unfortunately the Wulfen is sitting in the middle of that. Unfortunately it suffers from poor configs.
The Phantom is over engined. IMHO the Viper offers a better movement profile.
I haven't had much of a chance to work with the Wulfen. Maybe we could get a "Fire Moth II" that is 30 tons and 9/14; there's not many mechs of that weight category with that speed profile.
Which is why I'm thinking a Viper II would need to make use of some modern technology that can't be pod-mounted to set itself apart from the previous version.
90 tons is great for a std engined 4/6 Mech. 95 is slightly better for XL. We are dealing in half tons here. The extra weight means more cost but more durability.
I think that part is kind of relevant to how the Dominion runs things. Granted, I don't want to see them Flanderized, but spending more on something slightly less efficient is kind of their hallmark. I mean, look at the bloody Kuma; if that thing were 5 tons lighter, it would have 7 tons more space to work with. And while the Gargoyle isn't a Bear design, they quite like it (if the RATs are any indication).
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90 tons is great for a std engined 4/6 Mech. 95 is slightly better for XL. We are dealing in half tons here. The extra weight means more cost but more durability.
Shame there's no Banshee IIC; maybe something built off the -5S. Not like the Razzies don't have a bunch of BNC frames to work on after all. I've been pootling with a 3150-era idea, I should go post it.
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A lighter unit? Brother, I don't think you appreciate the Ghost Bears.
Cute.
So anyway, updated the proof of concept thread with the Beowulf IIC I threw together (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57457.msg1322799#msg1322799).
Can't use AES with TSM, oh well. Can still headcap with punches, which is what I was testing for. Faster than the Koidak and jumpy to boot. With a big scary thing to distract, a medium like this could dart around the battlefield snatching faces like Voldemort in a graveyard.
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And here is my effort
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57486.0
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Too much focus on battlemechs. Fix the wraith to be an assault.ba like it was supposed to be ;)
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Too much focus on battlemechs. Fix the wraith to be an assault.ba like it was supposed to be ;)
Giant robots are better than little bitty robots!
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Giant robots are better than little bitty robots!
What if the little bitty robots could combine into one giant robot?
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Too much focus on battlemechs. Fix the wraith to be an assault.ba like it was supposed to be ;)
the Golem is enough of a transport headache and you want to add another?
The quickest way to fix the Wraith is to get rid of the double arm theme.
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What if the little bitty robots could combine into one giant robot?
"Star Colonel, we've tested mounting the Executioner on those salvaged Balius that we acquired from the Horses."
"And?"
"It...went about as well as could be expected."
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And here is my effort
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57486.0
small question, what benefit does Interface give besides not needing a gyro
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small question, what benefit does Interface give besides not needing a gyro
Per pg. 116 of Interstellar Ops:
- A -1 to all Gunnery & Piloting skill target numbers
- If the 'Mech has a gyro all gyro hits are ignored and gyro destruction is ignored
- The MW ignores pilot hits due to ammo explosions and due to head hits. The MW still suffers damage from pilot hits while falling, overheating while life support is damaged, or dying if the head location is destroyed.
- The MW is in a PAL suit, so if the MW ejects it now has some armor/abilities based on the suit.
Plus a few other benefits/rules that are less likely to be needed.
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Per pg. 116 of Interstellar Ops:
- A -1 to all Gunnery & Piloting skill target numbers
- If the 'Mech has a gyro all gyro hits are ignored and gyro destruction is ignored
- The MW ignores pilot hits due to ammo explosions and due to head hits. The MW still suffers damage from pilot hits while falling, overheating while life support is damaged, or dying if the head location is destroyed.
- The MW is in a PAL suit, so if the MW ejects it now has some armor/abilities based on the suit.
Plus a few other benefits/rules that are less likely to be needed.
thanks
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Jellico, in all honesty, how likely is any of that advanced tech going to end up in the RasDom's hands anyway? I don't know the relations with the other clans and likelihoods of getting anything, so can you elaborate a bit more?
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Jellico, in all honesty, how likely is any of that advanced tech going to end up in the RasDom's hands anyway? I don't know the relations with the other clans and likelihoods of getting anything, so can you elaborate a bit more?
Well, the Parash was made on New Oslo, and that is now in Dominion hands. The Parash 3 used an Interface cockpit, though I don't have any books on hand to see if the Parash 3 was made on New Oslo before the Dominion took over.
As for ferro-lamellor, they already have the Mad Dog IV with it, and the Raven Alliance also has the stuff.
The Chameleon is what they'd probably have the hardest time acquiring.
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The CLPS is archived tech for the clans, Exterminators and Spectors went on the Exodus. They would just have to dust pffthe 5 inch floppy drives and hope the reader still works.
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CLPS makes sense; you don't see the ghost bear until it's on you because it blends against the snow. I'm fine with evil dishonorable things like that since by 3150 noone deserves it - and I'm more Rasalhague leaning than Bear leaning.
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When you boil it down, CLPS is just appropriate camo taken to an extreme. If you've got already got camo-painted mechs with Angel ECM then CLPS isn't that much of a leap. It certainly can't be more unClanlike than C3i.
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CLPS is SL tech as noted. The main problem is ideological. Note the Bears have got into Stealth BA in the 3080s. The Wolves broke the taboo with the Stealth armored Wulfen which is used by the Bears. Personally I consider CLPS a fascinating compromise stealth tech. Besides. Lights need all the help that they cam get in 3150.
Interface Cockpits are more interesting. I think it was XTRO Republic 3 which discussed it. The Wolves, Horses and maybe Ravens were suggested to have it with any of the others being able to aquire it by the usual means if needed.
Again the main limit is ideological.
It was noted that the Bears would be the least likely to use it. They have a retirement program now and insanity inducing EI is a bad fit for that. On top of that is the overplayed Bear dislike of new tech.
My personal position is the -2 to-hit alone means it will become a tactical necessity to rearm with Interface Cockpits as other Clans begin to deploy it in numbers.
The OmniMech example is illustrative. Despite not building OmniMechs the Bears knew enough about the tech to be concerned about issues with the gyros.
So I feel it reasonable to look at design and testing programs with production being held off untill it is politically acceptable amd tactically necessary .
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Ideology is one thing, but after the Jihad and in the current days, plus the fact they're already using Stealth tech, says to me CLPS should be acceptable. Granted EI implants and whatnot would be required, and you mentioned the retirement program being against that...
...I suppose, once the technology proliferated, it becomes less an issue of ideology and more an issue of simply keeping current - it's no longer new at that point. I suppose once the Skinwalker shows up enmasse, or there's more designs beside that and the Parash 3 showing up, it'll get pushed into the touman just like every other development.
That said, now I want a Kodiak III with a CLPS. Time to design.
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It was noted that the Bears would be the least likely to use it. They have a retirement program now and insanity inducing EI is a bad fit for that. On top of that is the overplayed Bear dislike of new tech.
I think they get Flanderized a bit in this regard. My view is that they prefer technology that has reached maturity. If interface systems could get to a point where a pilot could get a few good years in (maybe five to ten) and then leave without suffering permanent mental damage, I think the Dominion would be much more open to using it. As you point out, the fact that they are practically developing a retirement program (they pretty much have to for the KungsArmé forces) rather kills their employment of most EI systems as they are now. Honestly, I think it more likely they'd start using C3i again before Interface becomes widespread.
If Interface becomes more widespread in the other IS Clans, I would honestly see them heavily using C3i and TCs all over the place before they move into more EI territory. Those two things (combined with doctrine that makes full use of them) could help keep them on equal footing with Clans using Interface technology.
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Not gonna lie, this was stupid fun. http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57516.0 (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57516.0) Wish I could have done that with a dual UAC-20 machine...
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Nothing wrong with the firepower on that.
I think they get Flanderized a bit in this regard. My view is that they prefer technology that has reached maturity. If interface systems could get to a point where a pilot could get a few good years in (maybe five to ten) and then leave without suffering permanent mental damage, I think the Dominion would be much more open to using it. As you point out, the fact that they are practically developing a retirement program (they pretty much have to for the KungsArmé forces) rather kills their employment of most EI systems as they are now. Honestly, I think it more likely they'd start using C3i again before Interface becomes widespread.
If Interface becomes more widespread in the other IS Clans, I would honestly see them heavily using C3i and TCs all over the place before they move into more EI territory. Those two things (combined with doctrine that makes full use of them) could help keep them on equal footing with Clans using Interface technology.
Always remember with the Bears they have been given a lot of advantages so they need to be gimped in others.
TCs are problematic for weight reasons and we already see their use in intelligent places in the touman.
WoB iC3 saw ECM spread liberally around the Sphere. To the point C3 isn't standard DC equipment now. Plus it doesn't work with stealth tech if we are going that way.
Interface Cockpits are that revolutionary. You get better pilot performance. And your Mech gains 4 crits and 2-4 tons. That pays for Ferro Lammellor armor in most cases. (FL is situationally better than FF.) Look how it changed the Viper. Now do that to every light Clan Mech in the game.
There are tactical fixes to Interface Cockpits and there is a cost in pilot lifespans. But there are ALWAYS young dumb patriots willing to pilot things like this. Heck. There is not one ex military person that I know that isn't carrying a long term injury. It will happen. It is just a question of when.
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Nothing wrong with the firepower on that. Always remember with the Bears they have been given a lot of advantages so they need to be gimped in others.
Glad you liked it. That one was cute. So what's the general design etho1s/flavor of the modern RasDom, anyway? Was there a merging of mindsets between the two sides? I'm wanting to get a better feel for things besides '100 ton bear mechs' myself.
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... Always remember with the Bears they have been given a lot of advantages...
Understatement of the thread!
Sorry, I'm aware this is the Dominion fan thread. Let me express something other than sour grapes: Wars of the Republic Era was a pretty enjoyable read. Even when the Dominion won :) Besides, they're probably going to end up being either the ilClan or the ilClan's kingmaker anyway. TPTB aren't going to turn around how much "nothing bad ever happens to us" inertia the Bears have had for so long anytime soon.
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I'm always a bit surprised when people feel the need to cry fiat at large, careful and adaptable factions like the Bears and Adders tending to do well in the BT setting, while wildly flailing boneheads like the Jaguars and WoB get squashed.
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Not gonna lie, this was stupid fun. http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57516.0 (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57516.0) Wish I could have done that with a dual UAC-20 machine...
I like it: at the same time I want a dezgra exile or mercenary to grab one remove the missile launchers and add Claws and something close range like an LBX-20 but that would leave the ER PPC out and then it's got no long range things.
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Well, Clan LRMs are deliciously short-ranged at 7 hexes and have no minimums, so there's that. Plus all those ERMLs...
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Yea, your version is what I expect a Kodiak to be: I was just talking hypothetically about a custom on your version.
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Well, I can think of worse things to buy for 4550 BV, but there you go. One LB-20 variant for shorter-range work.
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Personally i am a bigger fan of slapping a gauss rifle instead of ac20. I like the longer range and cooler heat profile so i can work more of my medium lasers in the patented care bear stare.
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I have got a lot more selective with AC20s over the years. For example I usually don't bother at 4/6 which rules out most assaults. They are so slow they need the reach of a gauss. The Kodiak is an exception as a flavor unit.
Executioners are interesting because they can be fast enough but their pod space is so limited an AC20 compromises their balance. The H is the only one that really pulls it off.
Ultimately I am not a big fan of AC20s in the first place. The odds of a single big hit are low while a cluster of medium lasers doing more damage are higher.
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on the CLPS note, the wolves may have actually broken the ice on that front earlier than that.
the Original TRO entry for the Phantom medium omni, describes the mech as having a system along those lines (though never statted as such)
It's outer couating features a special polarizing crystal process that make it indistinct and blurry to any scanning or sensor system.
Playing with a mech editor I did whip up a "Phantom (Prototype)" based on that line, that includes CLPS without breaking any configs. Kindof a pre-wulfen.
not necessarily canon, but speculation about CLPS on clan designs isn't necessarily unfounded either.
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I'm fine with the Clans becoming Yautja. ;D
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Birthday battle ideas aaaaand GO!
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Using a Wolf Assualt Star to beat a Bear Pinata?
>:D
TT
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Take Leviathan III out for a spin...
Or Seventh Bear Guards on Tukyiaad.
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Birthday battle ideas aaaaand GO!
try out my new Elemental "Mech" that I hastily threw together just for you ;)
...I have no idea how it performs, and I have no record of how we built the Elementals from before, so I thought I'd try something different
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Wow. Now that's some good hibernating, Bears! The forum is asking if I'm sure I want to respond because the last post is over 90 days old.
Wait....there's not a new one, is there? I didn't see one.
Anyway, what are we all working on lately?
I went through a Battle Armor buying spree a couple months ago, and I'm still sifting through what all I want to do with it.
Also got an Omega Galaxy Binary (3145 era) being painted right now for an upcoming event game.
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Sleeping for large portions at a time while building a pair of mixed Supernova Binaries for a non-canon unit. Playing some CBT here and there but don't have much more than the basic Box Set and Lance Packs so stuck playing IS with people. Have no money but slowly trying to assemble a Clan Wolverine Trinary as well as a Ghost Bear Trinary and Wolf/Coyote Trinary. Picked up the BMM and am slowly learning ALL the rules so as to teach the locals (who are all involved in so many other RPGs and Minatures games I have to pull teeth for them to even consider BT).
But yeah also trying to consider a paint scheme for a mech unit that makes it vaguely look CGB. I like the Dark Gray and Blue of Delta so I'm leaning towards something similar.
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Wow. Now that's some good hibernating, Bears! The forum is asking if I'm sure I want to respond because the last post is over 90 days old.
Wait....there's not a new one, is there? I didn't see one.
Anyway, what are we all working on lately?
I went through a Battle Armor buying spree a couple months ago, and I'm still sifting through what all I want to do with it.
Also got an Omega Galaxy Binary (3145 era) being painted right now for an upcoming event game.
Can't go wrong with making them zeta galaxy! What units comprise of your omega binary?
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Can't go wrong with making them zeta galaxy! What units comprise of your omega binary?
Yeah, I think many of them will end up Zeta. Also will fill roster slots in my 2nd Bear Regulars, 1st Rasalhague Bears, and probably 1st Bear Guards or 50th Striker Cluster once I get my Alpha Galaxy Invasion Era units settled.
The Omega Galaxy Binary is a mixed unit, reflecting the not-always-front-line nature of units during the Dark Ages, meant for deployment on Vega. The configs and variants are noted because the unit is currently fitted to a 600PV roster for scenario.
Assault Star
Kodiak II
Karhu G
Executioner G
Supernova
Bruin
Battle Star
Mad Dog H
Arcas 2
Beowulf IIC
Fire Moth F
Solitaire
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Thoughts of other items in there?
I know I'm considered a Horse fan, but helping myself, and others, towards relieving you of your hard earn gains, demands necessary questioning of said unit's assets. :))
TT
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Ryoken IIs. Lots and lots of Ryoken IIs.
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The Ryoken II is a fun ride,so i agree.
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It is, but you might want to hire some trucks with additional ammo to follow you around...
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Ryoken II is best Ryoken
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It is, but you might want to hire some trucks with additional ammo to follow you around...
If you aren't running out of ammo you aren't doing it right!! ;)
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Ryoken II is best Ryoken
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The first one is a nice air defense platform.
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Guess everyone is doing his winter sleep but while I am awake I wish a Happy New Year to every Ghost Bear.
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(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRK9EV1LImIRETkcm5nt1IWO9qCGtMAmz_2HTPrKNVQtHaXrgDijQ)
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(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/admascots/images/e/e5/Coke_Bears.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20151204191016)
TT
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To a new year and to finding out what the bears are up to in 3150!
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Assembling Spheroid formations cause their cheaper to buy than Clan formations... :p
But yes happy new year trothkin! Hopefully we can take our Leviathan III for a spin.
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To a new year and to finding out what the bears are up to in 3150!
nothing wrong nothing wrong
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To a new year and to finding out what the bears are up to in 3150!
Misjumping a LevII into a planet?
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Misjumping a LevII into a planet?
Isn't that what they teach in naval academys according to the green turkeys?
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Isn't that what they teach in naval academys according to the green turkeys?
That was advanced principles of electioneering, not naval training.
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Typical Ghost Bear, can't tell the difference between Astronavigation and Political Science.
Maybe I should use small words and speak slowly.
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One WarShip one vote.
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i still think the Bruin is a mech only a mother would love, #SorrynotSorry #OvergrownGrizzly.
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Favorite film line still to date:
" You know about them Bears, they don't share. "
~ Morgan Freeman
An Undiscovered Country
TT
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"Please don't call me a koala bear."
Don Spencer
😛
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Kek. I invision a colbert style bear report every time the combine gets raided.
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Does the Rasalhauge Dominion need a Firemoth replacement.
As of the 3080s Firemoths have not been built.
The Firemoth served primarily as an Elemental taxi and scout. However the Domion operates a number of solid hover tanks which can serve in this role.
So. Do we need another Firemoth?
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No. As you pointed out, the array of hovertanks available to the Dominion pretty well obsoletes the Fire Moth, especially given the proportion of tanks to 'Mechs in the modern era. The things that you need a 'Mech for in those roles was always really better covered by the more robust Viper anyway.
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Proud owner of my first Ghost Bear Mechs and Elementals finally after years (Timber Wolf doesn't really count). I now have a Nova, Stooping Hawk, Kodiak, Bear Cub, Stormcrow, and 18 Elementals.
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Although the Dominion doesn't produce the Dragonfly either...
With that being said, seconding the thoughts there. Hovertanks and VTOLs more then make up for any Dasher shortage. Besides which, the Dragonfly jumps, which gives it more options then the Dasher any day
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Although the Dominion doesn't produce the Dragonfly either...
With that being said, seconding the thoughts there. Hovertanks and VTOLs more then make up for any Dasher shortage. Besides which, the Dragonfly jumps, which gives it more options then the Dasher any day
yes but one is better then the other, Hovertanks and VTOLs can have more speed, and that can be safer
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Hovertanks and VTOLs can have more speed, and that can be safer
Unless you fail your PSR and do an accidental hex slip into bad territory!
TT
( Which happens a lot for me, on purpose even! 8) )
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Can't we just buy Dasher 2's anyway? Not the same but at least you don't worry about as TT said, sliding into a no no spot and looking sheepish as your star col. Checks your blood alcohol level. Anyway id like to see the bears make a nice replacement for either the firemoth or viper..or.both!
No. As you pointed out, the array of hovertanks available to the Dominion pretty well obsoletes the Fire Moth, especially given the proportion of tanks to 'Mechs in the modern era. The things that you need a 'Mech for in those roles was always really better covered by the more robust Viper
.....that sounds suspiciously like something a HellHorse would say ;)
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Ug double post. Insert witty line about vikings and lrm barrages.
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Dasher 2s aren't omnis. And they are an insidious plan by the Sea Foxes to bankrupt the universe. And I don't think they have MASC.
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Kojak is right, you guys produce the Ku II... a 10 cargo bay infantry transport. If you were to say use 4 mechs and a Point of Ku II, you could make it a Nova easily. Points of Rouge Bear Hybrid, LRM Golem and a Point of Kobold IIC...
TT
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Would rather use a Kirgiz and play hot potato.
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Would rather use a Kirgiz and play hot potato.
That's so Raven of you! :D
TT
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Kojak is right, you guys produce the Ku II... a 10 cargo bay infantry transport. If you were to say use 4 mechs and a Point of Ku II, you could make it a Nova easily. Points of Rouge Bear Hybrid, LRM Golem and a Point of Kobold IIC...
TT
We do? I was sure that was pure Horse.
From memory:
Anhur
Eldingar
Tyr
For recon
Donar (Recon)
Odin (Recon)
Samash (Interdictor)
Various APCs.
And hilariously the Higgins APC when we grabbed Vega.
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Crap forgot dasher2 wasn't omni. Honestly its not a bad mech. I typically dial down the laser power for some nasty backshots.
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Kojak is right, you guys produce the Ku II... a 10 cargo bay infantry transport. If you were to say use 4 mechs and a Point of Ku II, you could make it a Nova easily. Points of Rouge Bear Hybrid, LRM Golem and a Point of Kobold IIC...
TT
according to the MUL, the Ku II is only available to the Horses and Falcons
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Diamond Shark Merchant----
TT
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Isorla gifted to us...
So randomly: what book has how to use Elementals and BA in it?
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TW, but SO and TO have some extra rules that come in handy..
What's the problem your having?
Movement or firing?
I've got some experience in both, if that helps...
TT
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Neither: just acquired four points of them and want to start using them so I want to read up on the rules. Need some more Omni's to carry them, but man are they expensive.
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Four Points eh...
Well if their the standard Toad... Jumping is standard movement, just leapfrog from shelter to shelter, staying next to buildings or level 1's as much as possible, only walk ( technically this is called jogging for Infantry ) if you have to, mostly underwater ( 1 hex a turn ).
But if you can get some transpo, better protect it, ride not die! ALWAYS deploy away from the fight, but as close as you can, behind a level 1 or higher or behind a treeline if possible.
TT
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Yeah: right now lacking supporting forces really. I only have a Kodiak, Nova, Stooping Hawk, and Bear Cub for CGB forces. Trying to find Clan omni's at a cheap rate lol.
Yeah they are going to be standard Toad until maybe I can get a point or two of Rogue Bear. I want a pair of classic Fire Moth's of course and use them as my Taxi's. The rest was just to see what hodgepodge force I could assemble and flavor accordingly. The people near me (mostly friends) hate larger sized battles, so most likely I won't even be able to use a full Nova.
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so most likely I won't even be able to use a full Nova.
Never say that... let's open our books...
You have any extra minis or are you trying to buy them from IMW / other sale?
Are you playing Alpha Strike or Tabletop?
Do you have any vehicles? Can you "Proxy" these, as in this equals this?
TT
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Looking to buy always from a variety of places: but usually it's my own budgets fault not for lack of places.
I have a full Battalion and a half for IS and a dozen SL mechs for my Clan Wolverine forces. I ... dislike proxy-ing, although I was looking to snag a couple Epona's and Tyr's (with maybe an SM1 cause I love the thing) for the future.
Tabletop: right now the group is mostly IS forces which is why I want to build the Supernova. And of course get to Con's and stuff.
Anyways back on topic: I figured I'd test a point or two against them first to basically learn how and then work my way from there.
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Well know... IF you happen to have the Hvy APC, any, or the Badger / Bandit or EVEN a Saladin...
All are clan builds. ( Saladin is a 17 ton cargo hauler... )
Should be able to field these if you happen to have a mini...
TT
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A question about the Dominion and Solhama personnel,
Does the Dominion have a different view towards Solhama troops vs the typical Clan. I would imagine the idea of basically disposable/suicide units quite the anethma to the Dominion's leadership, so what would happen to troops that were seen as old? Are they instead rotated out into training roles or used to fill out 2nd line forces or even 'retire' or is it a case of "See that minefield over there, run through it until you don't have to run any more. The explosion will tell you when to stop."
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I think there's some fluff that they sometimes get hired or got hired by Odin manufacturing ect as test pilots or advisers, but on the whole i don't think it's been covered anywhere in detail, i have a feeling we would let them test down into an non military cast and serve in an advisory role or go between for dealing with the Clan. I can easily see washed out Elemental's been poached by construction companies, after all it's still service to the Clan and State that their Phenotype aids with for example.
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Aetospace pilots get hired as consultants and basically turned it into a top gun like atmosphere in one of the valkyrie clusters.
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I would imagine the idea of basically disposable/suicide units quite the anethma to the Dominion's leadership
There is still the positive (to the Clans) notion of giving these aged warriors an honourable death in battle.
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Don't forget about the police caste: granted I don't remember if it was featured in anywhere but Vega (common sense says yes but I'm away from my books at the moment to confirm). Solamha could test down into that caste as well.
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The Kungsarme pretty much forced retirement to be a thing. So as a Warrior you have options.
For a Trueborn you are still indoctrinated from birth to be the greatest thing ever so there will still be a big mental hurdle to leap to even consider a non military life. So an end as a mine field detector is probably still an option.
Then there is general death. These guys like their live fire exercises and 15 point weapons. A % aren't making it to retirement.
Then we move into trainers. This is a traditional role but not suited to everybody. One of the Aerospace companies was hiring ex Warriors as consultants (training is a side line). These would be the best of the best so again a limited pool.
Then there is politics. From memory 2/3 of the Rikstag have to have served in the military. This will appeal to a certain fraction of Warriors.
Finally you have retirement. I have no idea what sorts of pensions are in play. I don't know any ex military types who don't have some kind of chronic injury and I imagine it to be worse in a Clan military. Hopefully they have made it to a decent age but there is every chance the Warrior has been forced out in their 20s or 30s. So they are there with another 50 years of life.
Suicide is an option. Mercenary service. Officers are probably suitable for various management positions but the grunts might not have much to hope for. Hopefully there is some kind of vocational training program for those exiting the Touman if only to keep nut jobs with military training off the streets.
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Once upon a time I suggested adding a rule to Randall that you could drop Elementals on top of another mech for a swarm attack if you jumped over it after it had moved and you were carrying elementals. Would be perfect for the Firemoth..... :D
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But... Firemoths don't have jump jets... Well the thing about dem Duke boys...
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But it's an OmniMech and that would practically demand a variant that did so....
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I think that went over your head.
*plays first 12 notes of Dixie*
:D
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I got it jellico ;) a Firemoth with the SLDF logo on iy ;) best part is the mech warrior is all ready wearing daisy duke like shorts!
Once upon a time I suggested adding a rule to Randall that you could drop Elementals on top of another mech for a swarm attack if you jumped over it after it had moved and you were carrying elementals. Would be perfect for the Firemoth...short
Would make the viper a whole lot scarier!
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Not to worry. It just means that I am getting olllld.
My wife missed the 80s In the West so I get in trouble with pop culture references all the time. Watching Guardians of the Galaxy was endless questions.
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So thoughts on a non HA version of the viking iic?
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I would like regular armor, but don't have a program (or time) to work out a version-2.
I don't really think that it would be worth investing in a new design, but I haven't played with Hardened Armor so I can't comment on usage.
That being said because it is a second line mech I think it works well enough as is.
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I would like regular armor, but don't have a program (or time) to work out a version-2.
I don't really think that it would be worth investing in a new design, but I haven't played with Hardened Armor so I can't comment on usage.
That being said because it is a second line mech I think it works well enough as is.
I had a iic version a while before real one came out. Used streak lrms which made not overheating nice. Basically i find the iic with HA slooooooow. Pairs up well with the HA madcatmkII, but again sloooow. Like put on a show while you get into position slow.
That said when it does get there it slaps mechs around like a paperboy who wants his two dollars.
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I was thinking about a version with Mech Mortar 8's but i am not so sure, I like the Davion Antlion, the good parts are it would go up to 4/6 with 16 tonnes standard armour
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=61376.0 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=61376.0)
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I'm not sold on Mech mortars, anyone with experience like to share with the rest of the class?
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I'm not sold on Mech mortars, anyone with experience like to share with the rest of the class?
I've only used them in MegaMek, but I find almost every time I use them I wish I was using LRMs instead. The only real value they add (besides being immune to AMS) is that you can blind-fire them without a spotter. But the to-hit penalty on that is so high, it's kind of pointless.
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Oh reeeeally. That's kinda cool, I can see how they could fun if very niche.
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They can also fire indirectly at any time, even if they have a valid line of sight, best part is ammo, Anti personnel: 1D6 per tube at 21 hexes, if you can get your claws on them, semi-guided rounds: an SRM 8 at again 21 hexes since IS and Clan Mortars have the same ranges
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They are most interesting for their exotic ammo.
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Do we have any information on how we deal with Former Rasalhague Republic vehicle regiments? I think there was some information but i can not remember where.
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http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/182/axel-heavy-tank-iic-standard
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2081/mars-assault-vehicle-hag
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1550/huitzilopochtli-assault-tank-huey-aaa
I am going to say that they listened. 😉
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So thoughts on a non HA version of the viking iic?
How would it get made? IIRC, the company that made the Viking IIC went under, with that mech being their last hurrah as an attempt to stay afloat. The TRO entry suggests nobody was, or is, interested in it to a large enough degree to restart production.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/182/axel-heavy-tank-iic-standard
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2081/mars-assault-vehicle-hag
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1550/huitzilopochtli-assault-tank-huey-aaa
I know the Axel IIC was created by the Dominion, but I didn't know the other two were as well. Where is that information found? Besides MUL, that is.
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What the bears lack in honor they make up for with hueys!!
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B&B is making Hueys. Odin makes Mars. (Objectives:The Clans)
Upgrades come from 3060 Upgrade Milspec.pdf. A Battlecorps product.
Hmm. Maybe the Sarna guys need to find this and have a look...
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B&B is making Hueys. Odin makes Mars. (Objectives:The Clans)
Upgrades come from 3060 Upgrade Milspec.pdf. A Battlecorps product.
Hmm. Maybe the Sarna guys need to find this and have a look...
The Objective: The Clans doesn't say what variants are being built, though, which is more what I was getting at.
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See Milspec. It has fluff for the new variants in TRO3060.
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The TRO entry suggests nobody was, or is, interested in it to a large enough degree to restart production.
IIRC Arc-Royal picked up lost production when the Viking IIC's original manufacturer shut down. (Which also kind of explains why the Viking IIC is on the Steiner RAT, in my opinion.)
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Another year passed: a day of decanting for the not really an Iron Womb.. didn't get to play BT on my birthday this year unlike the last two ... but I have assembled two stars of Ghost Bear-ish forces (including a full star of Undine picked up very cheaply (of which I will never use)) and am trying to complete a third star including making it a Nova . Then comes painting, of which while I prefer to put them in Alpha Galaxy colors, I might have to modify the paint scheme a bit (because I'm a complete novice at it) to a more solid color scheme of sorts.
On the other hand my Wolverine force sits at two stars and my Inner Sphere Battalion is not at eight companies... none painted.
How are the rest of you trothkin?
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Another year passed: a day of decanting for the not really an Iron Womb.. didn't get to play BT on my birthday this year unlike the last two ... but I have assembled two stars of Ghost Bear-ish forces (including a full star of Undine picked up very cheaply (of which I will never use)) and am trying to complete a third star including making it a Nova . Then comes painting, of which while I prefer to put them in Alpha Galaxy colors, I might have to modify the paint scheme a bit (because I'm a complete novice at it) to a more solid color scheme of sorts.
On the other hand my Wolverine force sits at two stars and my Inner Sphere Battalion is not at eight companies... none painted.
How are the rest of you trothkin?
I am quite well, for one: I am playing multiple Against the Bot campaigns on MekHQ, my new wife and I are going to get around to playing in person sometime soon (eventually maybe), and I am quite impatient for new releases. :P
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Okay, I got two questions for all other Bears on the board.
I am currently "designing" a very high tech Mi-24 HIND equivalent as a BA or Infantry transport for the Bears. It's reasonably fast(10/15 thanks to an XL... yep, thats right) well protected with 4 tons of FA armor and has a 5 ton infantry bay to transport a full point of BA's as well as an Active Probe to detect hidden units. It's intended to go in and clear out landing zones from any infantry, BA and the odd vehicle(the armament is designed around that mission, obviously) be they hidden or not, before dropping off it's slow heavy/assault BA or Infantry in tactically/strategically important locations, then hanging back to support them. The reason for this design is the obvious decline in Omni-Mech usage for all IS-Clans. It's basically an airborne IFV. Obviously there's also a gunship variant for longer range support. ^-^
So my first questions is... does a 5 ton infantry compartment fit 5 assault BA? I'm really not sure, I remember something about assault suits taking up more space/weight inside infantry compartments.
And number two, which Battle Armor suits is the Dominion using in the 3150 Era, apart from the obvious Elemental, Gnome, Golem, Rogue Bear and Constable? Does the Dominion have access to the CWiE Cuchulainn by any chance? Any slow heavy/assault suit with good long range firepower? Which suits or infantry units do you think would fit best for this intended role?
Thanks in advance for the answers! :)
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The MUL is your friend and it can answer questions like yours.
RasDom BA in the Dark Age (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&Factions=40&SubTypes=28&AvailableEras=16) (of note: include Rabids, Kobolds, and Thunderbirds to your list) I didn't inlcude the IS general or IS Clan general as I'm honestly not sure which the Dominion now qualifies as in the Dark Age... but surely the good old IS Standard BA suits are still in use by purely sphereoid units as well.
And as for tonnage requirements for transport: the Golem Assault armor (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4224/golem-assault-armor-standard) has the CAR5 special for a 5 man squad... i.e. it's still 1 ton per trooper.
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The MUL is your friend and it can answer questions like yours.
RasDom BA in the Dark Age (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&Factions=40&SubTypes=28&AvailableEras=16) (of note: include Rabids, Kobolds, and Thunderbirds to your list) I didn't inlcude the IS general or IS Clan general as I'm honestly not sure which the Dominion now qualifies as in the Dark Age... but surely the good old IS Standard BA suits are still in use by purely sphereoid units as well.
And as for tonnage requirements for transport: the Golem Assault armor (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4224/golem-assault-armor-standard) has the CAR5 special for a 5 man squad... i.e. it's still 1 ton per trooper.
Thank you very much! That was exactly what I was looking for! :D
Mhm, the Kobold IIC is interesting... let's say I use a full star of the "Hind" VTOL's with 2 points being fire support variants(those have ECM), I could load two points of Kobold IIC's to provide even better detection(and TAG!) capability than the Active Probe of the VTOL, to make sure that the landing zone really IS secure before the others land and unload 4 points of Golems/Gnomes. Afterwards, the Kobolds would be an excellent scout platform for both their heavier brethren(or infantry) and the VTOL's. That would be one hell of a "mobile mine field" so to speak. :drool:
As I said, my thinking was that Omni-Mechs are getting rather rare in the Dark Age... combine that with the Bears heavy focus on BA, and there is imho a need for a fast BA transport, able to function in any terrain, that can still take a hit. Also, they might have learned a thing or two from the Horses after getting over their mutual feud.
What do you guys think about the Dominions BA transport capability and the whole idea behind this concept? Would a pretty expensive VTOL with FL armor and a 110 rating XL engine(do the Bears have any native production of this type?) be a valid addition to the touman?
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First, you know that the and the [url=http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Anhur]Anhur (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lamprey) are things, right? The former covers the looks and the latter the functionality.
With that out of the way, the troop capacity rule depends on if you run with alternate TO rules. By default, five tonnes is enough for a point of any Clan BA. However, TO has rules where the compartment has to actually be large enough for the infantry inside. This means that for a point of assault BA, the compartment needs to be 10 tonnes.
Regarding BA that the Bears use in 3150, I'd suggest consulting the Master Unit List (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=40&EraId=16).
From here, we see the Dominion has access to the Thunderbird Battle Armor (probably isorla, so limited quantity after the Nova Cats get murdered) and the Corona Heavy Battle Armor (probably limited number, since I don't think any Dominion factory was building them after the Abjuration of all the IS Clans).
It's probably safe to say that the Gnome, Golem and Rogue Bear make up the bulk of their heavy BA force.
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First, you know that the and the [url=http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Anhur]Anhur (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lamprey) are things, right? The former covers the looks and the latter the functionality.
With that out of the way, the troop capacity rule depends on if you run with alternate TO rules. By default, five tonnes is enough for a point of any Clan BA. However, TO has rules where the compartment has to actually be large enough for the infantry inside. This means that for a point of assault BA, the compartment needs to be 10 tonnes.
Regarding BA that the Bears use in 3150, I'd suggest consulting the Master Unit List (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=40&EraId=16).
From here, we see the Dominion has access to the Thunderbird Battle Armor (probably isorla, so limited quantity after the Nova Cats get murdered) and the Corona Heavy Battle Armor (probably limited number, since I don't think any Dominion factory was building them after the Abjuration of all the IS Clans).
It's probably safe to say that the Gnome, Golem and Rogue Bear make up the bulk of their heavy BA force.
Yes, I know that the Lamprey and Anhur are a thing. That didn't stop others from producing/designing similar vehicles in universe... hell, thats actually the opposite of what is usually happening for Mechs, Tanks and most everything else. I'm sure the BT universe as a whole runs on the principle of constantly getting new "old" designs. Some higher power must have decreed this... :lol:
As for factual in universe reasons why I didn't go for the Anhur or Lamprey... both are 5 tons heavier, the Lamprey is an IS vehicle and produced literally on the other side of the Inner Sphere, while the Anhur is less well armed and slower... both are not protected with Ferro-Lamellor. ^-^
Also, this whole question was about figuring out how to "fluff" the thing... and I just wanted to design a Clan Hind, dammit! ;D
Anyway, the only question that's unanswered is how others percieve the viability of a purpose-designed, high end Clan VTOL BA+Infantry Transport/Gunship for the Rasalhague Dominion Touman. :)
Actually... is it allowed to post fan designs in threads like this? It would make the viability question much easier to answer if I could show you the design, but I'm quite sure it's forbidden to do so anywhere outside the "Fan Designs and Rules" subforum. I haven't put it there because... well, I don't have much of the fluff figured out, besides the faction and the design role. No background, no manufacturer for the unit itself or it's components(especially the 110 XL engine), no quirks... just the barebones stats.
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Well, keep in mind it's likely going to equip second-line units, since front-line ones tend to have plenty of omnimechs for BA to grab on to.
The Bears have already shown a basic interest in producing their own BA transport--see the Tyr, a replacement for the Svantovit--so I don't think a VTOL transport would be out of place for their touman. Though keep in mind that "ineffective use of a bigger unit than necessary for the job" is kind of a running theme of Bear designs.
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You need to start thing of the role.
For example Active Probes are stupidly short ranges. Do you really want a transport that close to the action?
Do you want to be carrying Assault suits at all? Their lack of JJs limits their ability to exit at altitude.
Anhur
Eldingar
Tyr
are all in production. This does not include imports.
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The bear sleeps. Rejoyce!! Trothkin, we managed to get a few paragraphs!!! Could be worse, could have gotten the raven treatment.
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The bear sleeps. Rejoyce!! Trothkin, we managed to get a few paragraphs!!! Could be worse, could have gotten the raven treatment.
Hey, don't be drawing attention to that. We're just your friendly neighbourhood background Clan. Nothing to see here, move along, move along.
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My book and new set of Ghost Bear Faction Dice will come on Thursday :)
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Hey, don't be drawing attention to that. We're just your friendly neighbourhood background Clan. Nothing to see here, move along, move along.
Y'all spent the whole time perfecting your disco elemental. Explains the 27th boogie fever cluster.
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Question for the thread: What do the Ghost Bears do for a pre-Trial of Position ritual? We have a really solid look at the Falcon version in The Way of the Clans, but I'm not aware of any definitive source on the Ghost Bear version.
Interested for a campaign I'm looking to start, and want to get it as accurate as possible.
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I haven't really read a lot of Ghost Bear novels. But I imagine with their focus on family the whole sibko gets together.
They are also into American Football. Maybe their bear trainer gives them a coach carter speech. ^-^
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My book and new set of Ghost Bear Faction Dice will come on Thursday :)
wait a minute, are those dice available for purchase?? the ones from gencon?
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Question for the thread: What do the Ghost Bears do for a pre-Trial of Position ritual? We have a really solid look at the Falcon version in The Way of the Clans, but I'm not aware of any definitive source on the Ghost Bear version.
Interested for a campaign I'm looking to start, and want to get it as accurate as possible.
None of the novels depict anything special, but they do have a intimate funeral when a member of the unit passes away.
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wait a minute, are those dice available for purchase?? the ones from gencon?
Yes: don't have the dice in person yet (guy forgot them and his backpack) but apparently they were sold individually.
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So I've hit my 1,000 post (woot go me) and an update in my Ghost Bear Trinary.
Currently unpainted, not primed, one star not assembled, and missing five Elementals and a Fire Moth but.... Slightly over strength
Command/Assualt Star
Kodiak
Executioner
Warhawk
Nova Cat
Kingfisher
Heavy/Striker Star
Timber Wolf
Mad Dog
Mad Dog
Stooping Hawk
Nova
Recon Star
Shadow Cat
Stormcrow
Pirannha
Bear Cub
Fire Moth
Support Star
Epona Hovertank 4x
Elemental Battle Armor 45x
Undine Battle Armor 24x
Yeah it's a bit of a mess. The Undines, Bear Cub, and Pirannha most likely won't be apart of the final force composition. Didn't plan on the Epona's originally but he price was right and they are awesome tanks. A couple of other mechs I'd like to add but lack of money and other things of course.
Eventually they will be a full Cluster or Galaxy: definetly going to work up a backstory for them. As far as painting them I actually don't quite know how I want to paint them but I'm looking at a mix between Alpha, Beta, and Delta scenes lol.
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What era are you going for?
If you've got the Bear Cub, you're looking at the Jihad. Maybe add a Karhu to the list?
A potential replacement for your BattleMechs in your light star would be the Adder, since it shows up on a fair number of the Bear RATs. Otherwise another Fire Moth would be useful given all the BA you've got.
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I was thinking 3067 honestly but I can live with the fact that the Bear Cub was 3068.
If I was going to go to Jihad Era a Karhu would be my top pick
A Fire Moth is definetly going to replace the Pirannha at some point. However I may have just acquired a dozen more Clan Mechs (against my better judgement) so let me see if I'll convert it to two full Trinaries :)
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Star League Day
The most solemn Clan holiday refers to the assassination of First Lord Richard Cameron, which caused the fall of the Star League on 27 December, 2766.
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Star League Day
The most solemn Clan holiday refers to the assassination of First Lord Richard Cameron, which caused the fall of the Star League on 27 December, 2766.
I forget, how do we celebrate this day again? Oh that's right, trialling house Kurta 😁
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I forget, how do we celebrate this day again?
Same way Ghost Bears do everything. They have a temper tantrum and commit atrocities.
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What are we going to do tomorrow night?
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What are we going to do tomorrow night?
Thought we would mix it up and commit atrocities then throw a temper tantrum. Either way pie and punch will be served.
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What are we going to do tomorrow night?
Same thing we do every night Khan, try and take over the Inner Sphere!
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Same thing we do every night Khan, try and take over the Inner Sphere!
we should....
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I may or may not have bought another Star of Elementals: I only needed five to complete my Nova Binary ... and I found like thirty for cheap so now I have a Supernova Trinary of Omni's and Elementals as well as another Trinary of second line battle Mechs. I should totally stop but soon I'll have a Cluster and my bank account will be sad.
Of course like a dozen Mechs are not assembled and all are unpainted so I gotta work on that. I have to really bargain with my friends to do the work for me cause I'm terrible at it. I'm going to go with a custom style paint job if possible because while some of the Galaxies have cool schemes I want to tweak and combine a couple to make a unique sort.
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Same way Ghost Bears do everything. They have a temper tantrum and commit atrocities.
I thought commiting atrocities was a Jade Falcon thing ?
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Ghost Bears do it too. You can find post-Jihad evidence of it in the XTRO Republic writeup of the Beowulf IIC-PR where the Ghost Bears, utilizing c3i technology go after the Nova Cats.
"On the other hand, the deal entailed shifting the blame for the Ghost Bear atrocities to the Black Dragons, enabling the true perpetrators of this inhuman campaign to go unpunished."
We also see it during the Jihad when the Ghost Bears basically wipe out WoB units and civilians (IIRC, don't have time to cite sources at the moment) while under the impression that there are Wolverine links to the WoB, due to Uncle Chandy's misinformation campaign.
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During the Second Combine-Dominion war, the Bears engaged in the wholesale slaughter of Nova Cat (and Combine) civilians. Among other things, they used Polaris-class dropships, armed with Cruise Missiles, to bombard Nova Cat cities.
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During the Second Combine-Dominion war, the Bears engaged in the wholesale slaughter of Nova Cat (and Combine) civilians. Among other things, they used Polaris-class dropships, armed with Cruise Missiles, to bombard Nova Cat cities.
Don't start none,won't be none! Best part of that war in my opinion.
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CGB was going all Jaguar on civilians during Operation Revival. Really it was a matter of who resorted to orbital bombardment first.
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Don't start none,won't be none! Best part of that war in my opinion.
Well no. The Second CDW started with simple, commonplace cross-border raiding. The Bears chose to escalate it to attempted genocide for no reason at all.
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There was gonna be a second war, the bears just needed to do enough war is bad to explain the current power dynamic. It was never gonna be pretty.
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Nova Cats are in a tough spot. Their Clan identity demands raiding and really they can only raid the Dominion.
OTOH the Dominion can't raid them back because it draws the attention of the DC proper and ends in general war.
Sooner or later the Dominion was going to have to do something about it. Genocide is a legitimate option in a Clan's arsenal even if they don't have the opportunity to use it much.
Of course that isn't nice and the Rasalhagians made the Clan pay for it. And even if the genocide wasn't successful it encouraged the DC to reign in the Cats. A win for the Dominion.
So yeah, from a Nova Cat point of view the Ghost Bear reaction is for no reason. But how can the Bears manage a situation where the Cats can raid but be unable to retaliate?
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I would have guessed that raiding as retailation (with the ocasional conquered planet as a bonus) would be enough.
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But how can the Bears manage a situation where the Cats can raid but be unable to retaliate?
Send out false intel to set up traps and throw zellbrigen out the window when the Cats show up.
That juicy weapons depot guarded by a trinary is actually empty and guarded by a cluster. And the cluster commander has been instructed to disregard the batchall process and treat any Nova Cats as dezgra.
Or better yet, there's a star of Aesir/Vanir hiding behind the local moon that will destroy any Cat dropships before they can make planetfall.
Annihilate enough Cat raiders and the raids will stop.
It's not necessarily how the sleeping/raging Bears approach things, but the Wolves or another thinking Clan could certainly employ such a strategy.
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It was also a way to explain how the cats ended up where they are while also showing the bears aren't always or exactly good guys. Unfortunately the nova cats got the short end of the stick and I feel for the players.
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Don't forget the Nova Cats were Abjured. As much as they are still Clan, to the Ghost Bears they are not. That and the typical over-reactions from the Ghost Bears means an aweful amount of pain delivered for minor transgressions.
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Send out false intel to set up traps and throw zellbrigen out the window when the Cats show up.
That juicy weapons depot guarded by a trinary is actually empty and guarded by a cluster. And the cluster commander has been instructed to disregard the batchall process and treat any Nova Cats as dezgra.
Or better yet, there's a star of Aesir/Vanir hiding behind the local moon that will destroy any Cat dropships before they can make planetfall.
Annihilate enough Cat raiders and the raids will stop.
It's not necessarily how the sleeping/raging Bears approach things, but the Wolves or another thinking Clan could certainly employ such a strategy.
Oh come on. That will work all of twice. The Cats aren't idiots. The initiative is all on the Cats side and you can't spread enough defense every where. Star Admiral Ackbar will have plenty of chances to develop his catchphrase.
This is a long term problem going back to the 60s and all 3 sides have history exploiting it.
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The initiative is all on the Cats side and you can't spread enough defense every where.
I gotta disagree.
Initiative means little if the Cats can no longer trust their own intel or what the Bears tell them during the batchall.
Also, the Bears substantially outnumber the Cats, and the Cats are in a generally poor position number- and quality-wise. The Bears can afford to set traps more than the Cats can afford to lose raiding parties.
I'm not saying that the Cats won't have a successful raid now and then. But the Cats would lose against a Bear campaign of attrition if the Cats kept it up.
That will work all of twice. The Cats aren't idiots.
Great.
If the Cats chose not to play that game, their other choices would be to:
1) Stop raiding the Bears, which is a win for the Bears; or
2) Risk more assets by attacking en masse, giving the Bears a pretext with the civilian side of their government for more aggressive actions, which is also a win for the Bears.
The Bears usually react (slowly). They don't usually calculate like this. But there's no reason the right Khan couldn't employ such a strategy of escalation instead of just sending the Bear touman raging across the border.
This is a long term problem going back to the 60s and all 3 sides have history exploiting it.
Sure. I'm just saying that there are smarter ways for the Bears to have played it.
Not necessarily better for the story arc or consistent with how the Bears are characterized. Just smarter.
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Our Khan at the time was going a bit mad hatter.
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Played my first game in a year, was nice to take a few of our mechs out for a walk...executioner F is still undefeated 😊😊.
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Played my first game in a year, was nice to take a few of our mechs out for a walk...executioner F is still undefeated 😊😊.
bravo sir, bravo
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bravo sir, bravo
In a duel (or period) me taking a executioner F, is undefeated. I thought it was 3 but was informed it was 6 years.....battle was between it and a UK kodiak.
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I've got a battle set up for this coming Thursday: considering either my Ghost Bear Star or my Wolverine Star depending on the tonnage. I'd love to drop my Nova Star in but I would be bringing in a medium or light force against a potentially heavy force which would outnumber my Mechs at least two to one. Although if the tonnage is right I could have two medium light Stars with Elementals to his heavy/Assault Demi-Company.
EDIT: Turns out my opponent wants to play a larger game and likes balance by tonnage not by BV.
Think I'm gonna bring a CGB force with a Kodiak 5, Timber Wolf Pryde, Nova Cat A or B, Mad Dog III Prime, Stooping Hawk (Unknown variant probably C), Fire Moth D, 4x Epona Hover tanks (Prime), and 25x Elementals (Unknown probably base). Run a Heavier Star and a Harasser Star and unload Elementals into his rear if possible. He's probably making the maps so IDK on the terrain but I have to brush up on my vehicle and Elemental rules this week.
I'd like to use some of my other mechs ( Like my Executioner, Warhawk, Kingfisher, second Mad Dog, Stormcrow) but they are unasebled. I'd love to use my two Novas but I haven't mastered their Prime Variant in the slightest nor do I really care much for the other variants on paper: I have to expirement with them in smaller battles.
I also thought about bringing in my Berserker and Hachetman and declaring my formation a Rasalhague one ;)
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Picked up a star of mechs today along with the new map pack. Got a Beowulf IIc,Karhu,Mad dog mk4,Tomahawk II, and a cave lion.
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Turning points tokasha is out!!
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I am away from my hard drive/computer but will be purchasing ASAP
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I'm out watching a blazer game but plan on purchasing after. Restless is gonna be my punching bag all weekend 😁😁
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So how was the read...
*I am trying very hard not to go poke the Horsies.
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So how was the read...
*I am trying very hard not to go poke the Horsies.
Was great! New mech variants and some more info on animal species which is great for fluff,nice info on the planet that I didn't know before. Worth the money and the wait honestly.
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Seyla! Its a good book :) And it teases us with what TRO Golden Century might bring :D
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The opening fiction is 20% cooler if Tikki is read in Rainbow Dash's voice.
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The opening fiction is 20% cooler if Tikki is read in Rainbow Dash's voice.
Damn you Sir..now i'm not going to hear it in anything else but that :p
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So how was the read...
*I am trying very hard not to go poke the Horsies.
Don't they call it a branding?
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We call that the "Mark", you get one or not depending if you survive, that is...
TT
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Part way done assembling my star! Got the Karhu done and almost finished with the mad dog mk4. Girlfriends 6 year old is helping so it's a fun little ptoject.
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Seeing we have the Horses here...
I am seeing the Omni Corvis and Minsk as fairly faction specific. (I am not giving away any secrets 😉) Maybe the Kokou? How do they perform?
Ogotai and Fox are Sharkies as per Strat Ops.
Issedones are a possible western identification of the Chinese Wusun (descendent of the raven). So there is a hint.
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Enjoyed the read: need more!
Didn't get to play my massive battle :( opponent got a lot of hours at work and my second opponent canceled. Silly Spheroid Scum. Oh well gets me more time to actually base my Elementals and order my other Fire Moth!
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Enjoyed the read: need more!
Didn't get to play my massive battle :( opponent got a lot of hours at work and my second opponent canceled. Silly Spheroid Scum. Oh well gets me more time to actually base my Elementals and order my other Fire Moth!
Do you have the multiple elementals to a base or the single?
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I want to do the multiple: I've seen the single and while they look good: I'm not a painter. I'm basically gonna clean and do a REAL basic paint job. Putting five on a base might be crowded but I personally think it's my best bet.
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I find if you base three facing one direction and they other two facing the opposite, you can squeeze all 5 on the hex.
TT
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Question, do we know who the Bear's SaKhan was at the time of the Battle of Tokasha? I'm trying to find info but coming up short :(
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AFIK it's never been stated. So until it is, I'm going to call them Bob Tseng
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AFIK it's never been stated. So until it is, I'm going to call them Bob Tseng
Clans do not use contractions: it would be Robert Tseng :)
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Nicknames are not contractions, any more than "sibko" is a contraction of "sibling company", or "aff" is short for "affirmative".
Contractions are mostly things that use the apostrophe to denote two words that have become one. For instance, "it's" for "it is", "wouldn't" for "would not", etc.
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Plus the bears have been talking in contractions since 64 😉
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Clans do not use contractions: it would be Robert Tseng :)
Vlad(imir) Ward would disagree
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It was a bad joke....
Plus the bears have been talking in contractions since 64 😉
:)
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Trying to decide what camo scheme to paint my bears, open to suggestions =).
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I don't have a pic of my Ghost Who Walks scheme but it works with a Karhu's skulls.
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Trying to decide what camo scheme to paint my bears, open to suggestions =).
What do you want to run? There's a Cluster in Delta galaxy that only uses jump-capable mechs and configurations which is kind of interesting.
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Delta wouldn't be bad. Used a mad dog today and had a blast with it! Despite all the damage and the gyro hit it took, he still kept standing and dishing out damage. Easily one of my favorite ghostbear mechs.
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I myself was looking at an Alpha/Delta/Kappa Galaxy scheme a darker grey and blue
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Unless you want a canon scheme, can't go wrong with a mix of blues, greys and whites
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2nd line Clusters are all grey.
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2nd line Clusters are all grey.
Kinda like how my hair is getting 😉
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2nd line Clusters are all grey.
Er...which ones? And since when? I'm actually very curious about where this info comes from
(Unless you meant as a generic colour scheme)
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Warden Clans. P85
Ghost Bear BaltleMechs and armored vehicles are most often painted in a winter camouflage scheme of grays and whites. unless terrain conditIons mandate other colors. In front-line units. 'Mechs are trimmed withh blue accents.
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Ah, I thought you meant their parade colours were all grey
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I did. But it turns out I missed the white. There is no parade scheme.
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Well there are parade schemes according to camospecs, and AFAIK, all those shown on camospecs are considered canon
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So trothkin I have a battle coming up this Friday: 300 tons total. My opponent is a self proclaimed Hell Horse's fan and we did talk about about combined arms so I expect him to pull a mixed Star.
Against him I have assembled a Nova Star: a Berserker C3 (or Kodiak 5, leaning towards Berserker), Mad Dog A, Stooping Hawk B, Viper A, Fire Moth D, and 25 Elementals (although five have to walk).
So primary question which type of Elementals do I use or do I proxy them for Rogue Bears or something else?
Secondary question: I've got a Nova Cat, Warhawk, four Epona's, another Viper and Fire Moth, three Timber Wolves, two Nova's, Kingfisher, and Stormcrow. Any substitutions you would recommend... oh did I mention I have another 50 Elementals?
And third question: any tips, tactics, ideas, etc?
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Tyler Jorgensson, what is the time in which the fight takes place, this could cause a number of changes....
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Also any idea of the terrain? That'll help with my battle armor suggestions.
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Terrain: probably box set variants: time period is a little post 3067: early Jihad I'd probably say nothing post 3085.
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So trothkin I have a battle coming up this Friday: 300 tons total. My opponent is a self proclaimed Hell a horse fan and we did talk about about combined arms so I expect him to pull a mixed Star.
Against him I have assembled a Nova Star: a Berserker C3 (or Kodiak 5, leaning towards Berserker), Mad Dog A, Stooping Hawk B, Viper A, Fire Moth D, and 25 Elementals (although five have to walk).
So primary question which type of Elementals do I use or do I proxy them for Rogue Bears or something else?
Secondary question: I've got a Nova Cat, Warhawk, four Epona's, another Viper and Fire Moth, three Timber Wolves, two Nova's, Kingfisher, and Stormcrow. Any substitutions you would recommend... oh did I mention I have another 50 Elementals?
And third question: any tips, tactics, ideas, etc?
For my tastes, the Berserker and Fire Moth are a little too far on opposite the ends of the movement and survivability spectrum for a small unit like this. I’d worry about unit cohesion and losing one or both when I try to take full advantage of their capabilities and they get expose..
Since you’re constrained by tonnage, not BV, I’d go with quality and make two Timber Wolves and the Stormcrow the core of the star. Since this is a nova, to that classic, high-end, Clan heavy cavalry core, I’d add the Vipers for BA delivery and flanking. It’s 285 tons total.
Timber Wolf
Timber Wolf
Stormcrow
Viper
Viper
I’d pick configurations based on whether zellbrigen is in force or if I could combine fires.
You could go heavier/harder-hitting by substituting the Warhawk for one of the Timber Wolves, but that removes the all-around heavy cavalry capability and sticks one BA point with a slow carrier. That would come in at 295 tons. Same goes for the Kingfisher or Nova Cat, but I’d rather have the Warhawk.
The Mad Dog, Stooping Hawk and Novas are also decent alternatives. They’re just not as good as the Timber Wolves and Stormcrow.
You could use the Stooping Hawk or a Nova in place of a Viper and also get to 295 or 300 tons. But that would leave one Viper as the only fast-mover in the star for BA delivery or flanking. And you’re giving up considerable mobility for not much more firepower and survivability. And the symmetry of the star is nice too.
If you stick with the Berserker or another non-Omni or slow unit, you might consider a point or two of Golems if you can preplace them on the map (not enter on an edge). Put them in some defensible terrain covering a movement path.
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For my tastes, the Berserker and Fire Moth are a little too far on opposite the ends of the movement and survivability spectrum for a small unit like this. I’d worry about unit cohesion and losing one or both when I try to take full advantage of their capabilities and they get expose..
Since you’re constrained by tonnage, not BV, I’d go with quality and make two Timber Wolves and the Stormcrow the core of the star. Since this is a nova, to that classic, high-end, Clan heavy cavalry core, I’d add the Vipers for BA delivery and flanking. It’s 285 tons total.
Timber Wolf
Timber Wolf
Stormcrow
Viper
Viper
I’d pick configurations based on whether zellbrigen is in force or if I could combine fires.
You could go heavier/harder-hitting by substituting the Warhawk for one of the Timber Wolves, but that removes the all-around heavy cavalry capability and sticks one BA point with a slow carrier. That would come in at 295 tons. Same goes for the Kingfisher or Nova Cat, but I’d rather have the Warhawk.
The Mad Dog, Stooping Hawk and Novas are also decent alternatives. They’re just not as good as the Timber Wolves and Stormcrow.
You could use the Stooping Hawk or a Nova in place of a Viper and also get to 295 or 300 tons. But that would leave one Viper as the only fast-mover in the star for BA delivery or flanking. And you’re giving up considerable mobility for not much more firepower and survivability. And the symmetry of the star is nice too.
If you stick with the Berserker or another non-Omni or slow unit, you might consider a point or two of Golems if you can preplace them on the map (not enter on an edge). Put them in some defensible terrain covering a movement path.
aff
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Your advice is solid and it wounds me so: I really enjoy smashing things in the face with a hundred ton Assault mech for 40 points of damage which I can claim is a Rasalhague pilot :) I might switch the Stormcrow for the Mad Dog or Stooping Hawk (personal preference) but I haven't decided in that quite yet and probably won't pick until I'm five seconds from playing. Regardless my Mechs have been assembled (again despite misadventures including glue and stabbing implements gone wild), and while not painted I've got a couple of Ghost Bear dice to represent.
Which variant of the Elemental Battle Armor should I take?
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Your advice is solid and it wounds me so: I really enjoy smashing things in the face with a hundred ton Assault mech for 40 points of damage which I can claim is a Rasalhague pilot :)
If you’re really good at it and are pretty sure he’ll bring viable targets for the Berzerker, go for it. But for me, I wouldn’t want to put 20% of my mech investment into such a high-risk, high-attention machine. I’d probably fail to bring the hatchet into play or get the Berzerker ganged up on. I’d take the risk in a binary- or trinary-sized fight, where the Berzerker is only 10% or less of my mech force. But not in a star-sized force.
Same basically goes for the Fire Moth. It’s an even higher-risk unit for less payoff. It will certainly bring weapons and BA to bear, but unlike the Berzerker, usually has no quick-kill ability. And once it closes, you run a high risk of not getting it back, especially without a similarly speedy partner. Again, in a trinary, a couple Fire Moths causing trouble in the backfield makes sense. In a star, a single Fire Moth doesn’t seem worth it.
For Elementals, the AP Gauss is out in 3069, which I think fits your timeframe. Nothing better.
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Aoso the battle was fought and ended in a draw (time). He brought a Thunder Stallions, Savage Coyote, Corvis, Galahad (Glass Spider), and Five Protomechs (Centaurs). I brought the suggested unit with a Mad Dog instead of the Stormcrow.
His Proto's got wrecked by my Vipers and Elementals. His Corvis was mostly holed as it took a lot of fire from bad (?) placement. His Thunder Stallion and Savage Coyote put a lot of work in (and I realize how good the Coyote is: slow but lots of big guns and DHS). His Galahad played fire support all game and got a couple nice shots in.
In retrospect my force did pretty well considering a couple mis-plays. My Elementals suffered half casualties (with two as ablative armor that stopped Gauss Shots). One Elemental point took an entire turn of fire from the Coyote and died but saved other Mechs from being shot. My Vipers ran hot (obviously with that right jump) but got quite a few back shots and deployed the two points they had perfectly in heavy woods. My Mad Dog sat in heavy woods bombarding things with its PPC and LBX for several turns until it plastered the enemy with all six SRM packs until it got head shot by a PPC on the last turn. I missteped with the Timber Wolves a bit and one took a full round of fire while the other accidentally placed himself in a non-shooting location in the rear of the enemy Thunder Stallion.
I would have killed his Corvis and Galahad for sure but the other two would have taken apart at least one of my Points and Timber Wolves. Either way for some experience playing with the Elementals in combined arms, leg attacks (two successful), and Battle Armor taxis. We expect to ply another couple games, especially with higher tonnage and maybe a two vs. two of I can arrange it as allies.
Thanks for the advice and help!
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Sounds like he went big and slow, and it sounds like you were using your mobility advantage to outflank and get in his rear, which you should have. Also sounds like the Elementals really got into play, which is also good.
Dunno if zellbrigen was suspended, but if you could use your mobility combine fire, that also would have helped (assuming you weren’t). Two T-Wolves working like a pack can make short work of something like T-Stallion, especially if they work their range advantages.
I think you were better off without the Berzerker. It would have been tempting to go toe to toe with the T-Stallion or S-Yote. But they can really pour on the firepower, especially up close, and either could have shredded it. If the axe missed, you would have been out a lot tonnage for little gain. Okay to take those chances in a big group. Harder in a small one.
The Centaurs would have made decent targets for your Fire Moth, if they didn’t have covering fire from the mechs. But that would have been rare on the typical map board size for this kind of battle. You were much better off with the Vipers.
Thx for the report. Those of us too busy to play have to live vicariously through the after-action!
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Yeah we played on a pair of boards (aka 2x1) and I agree on the force size. We didn't really use zellbrigen I think both because we used Protos and BA, and two because we didn't have 'all' day to fight. My forces did gang up quite a lot actually but technically he broke zell first if we were keeping score :) still working on painting although I've painted my first two models need the money to do the rest really so I'm hijacking friends things in the meantime.
And ironically enough this seems like a potentially regular opponent (which I'm happy about): so I might have to make an after report thread (fingers crossed) and work up a backstory/dossier.
But any recommendations on better BA for a force mostly centered around 3067 but could stretch to about 3085? I like the Rogue Bear art immensely but not sure of their capabilities in game. Eventually I'll acquire enough Ghost Bears to field a Cluster and then Galaxy of mixed Ages because who needs more than one In we Sphere Regiment of mercenaries.... actually side question now that I think about it...
Would the Rasalhague Dominion (in like the DA era) actually hire mercenaries? My two cents would be no, but they did fight along the Vegan Rangers in Trial by Chaos so I'm not a hundred percent sure ...
Anyways thanks again for the help!
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But any recommendations on better BA for a force mostly centered around 3067 but could stretch to about 3085? I like the Rogue Bear art immensely but not sure of their capabilities in game.
I think the Elemental with the APGR has the Rogue Bear beat or at least at a draw.
Against armor, both can throw three, 2-3 point hits out to nine hexes for a couple turns. The Rogue Bear can do that a couple more turns than the Elemental, but the Elemental can keep up a 3-point shot indefinitely after the Rogue Bear’s missiles run out. Probably a draw.
Against infantry, the Rogue Bear has to close to within 3 hexes to bring its MGs into play while the Elemental can stay safer at 9 hexes with the APGR and still enjoy vicious damage bonuses. I give this to the Elemental.
In terms of survivability, the Rogue Bear has more armor, but the Elemental has an extra +1 hit modifier thanks to its 3-hex jumps. Probably a draw.
In terms of mobility, both can mechanize, but the Elemental is 50% more mobile once dismounted. I give this to the Elemental.
And for Swarm and Leg attacks, the Elemental wins. The Rogue Bear simply can’t.
So I’d make the core of your battle armor force the Elemental (APGR).
I think the only other native Bear BA produced in that timeframe is the Golem. I like the Support variant myself. Just make sure you have some IFV/APC transpo.
The Bears pick up the Kobold with the Rasalhagians. The loadouts with the Light TAG as a squad support weapon might be a cheap way to get TAG on the field in a BV-constrained game.
If the MUL allows in that timeframe, I’d also pick up some Salamanders for face-hugging anti-mech attack’s and pair with your Fire Moths and Vipers.
Also if the MUL allows, maybe some Gnomes for your heavier, slower Omnis, but the Elemental (APGR) is arguably just as good if not better.
Later on, the Wraith is another great facehugger produced by the Bears, but not in your timeframe. Same goes for the very cheap ECM, Probe, and TAG support provided by variants of the Constable, especially in BV-limited games. Also, the Kobold IIC is a nice, cheap, but very mobile TAG spotter and ECM generator down the line.
Would the Rasalhague Dominion (in like the DA era) actually hire mercenaries?
I say no way. The Rasalhagians were burned by mercs when they split with the DC, and the Bears found the underhanded, win-at-all-costs tactics of the Black Omen and other mercs during Operational Revival very dezgra. I wish it were otherwise, but that’s how the canon treats Dominion attitudes towards mercs. Maybe with time things would change by the Dark Age, but I doubt such in your timeframe.
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Damn you rule of cool making me pick things that are very suboptimal lol
Thanks for he help. Gonna work on expanding my Assault Binary and Supernova Trinary into a full cluster so this is excellent help. Next job is painting and mounting hex bases.
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Damn you rule of cool making me pick things that are very suboptimal lol
There’s nothing wrong with the Rogue Bear. It just falls a little short of the Elemental (APGR). The biggest sin is the loss of anti-mech attacks. But if you can live without those, go for the flavor.
Thanks for he help. Gonna work on expanding my Assault Binary and Supernova Trinary into a full cluster so this is excellent help. Next job is painting and mounting hex bases.
My top three mech choices as you grow...
The Karhu heavy omnimech comes out in your timeframe. Several of the configs are downright dangerous. I especially like the D. High BV, but if you’re playing tonnage restricted games, it’s another quality design like the T-Wolf and S-Crow but with clear Bear flavor.
The Arcas is a quality, mobile, heavy second line mech. I like the 2 for a relatively cheap way to get a couple ER PPCs on the board, and it pairs well with the original’s massedStreaks.
If you want Rasalhagian flavor, the Viking is a way to get it while contributing usefully with Spheroid tech. Sure, it’s slow for a Bear formation, but 70 LRMs with Artemis from the backfield are nothing to sneeze at. There’s also an A5 variant to keep it way out of harm’s way while contributing usefully.
Some other mechs to consider...
The Executioner is classic Bear and has some nice configs. Not so great in tonnage or BV games — it’s high in both. But you may want one or two in a cluster TO&E for the flavor.
The Kodiak is the second line Executioner and has the same pros and cons. Some nice variants in your timeframe, but again you pay a high price in tonnage or BV for them.
On other second line designs, I’d probably take the Grizzly over the Bruin. They have the same solid, generalist, long-range loadout, but the Grizzly is 10 tons lighter and faster/more mobile. I’m not sure the loss of a couple tons of armor and the Bruin’s Streaks are worth it. (There’s also a Karhu config with the Grizzly loadout.)
According to the MUL, the Bears have access to the Solitaire from the get-go. It’s speed and hole-punching pair well with Fire Moth speed and Elemental crit-seeking.
If you play dirty with Thunder, smoke, and similar munitions, the Bear Cub 3’s dual LRM-5s are a relatively cheap way to deliver said munitions.
For combat vehicles, the Bears don’t offer much new, but I do like the pairing of the Tyr and Svantovit for Golem deployment and support. The Tyr clears with way with its Streaks and delivers the Golems while the Svantovit provides LRM support (again mines, smoke, etc.) from a safer distance. The Tyr can then join the Svantovit to add its ER Large Laser to the ranged support and either can rush in and retrieve the Golems if necessary.
Hope this helps.
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I mean eventually I'm gonna get some because they are cool. But after getting a taste for anti-mech attacks I agree you are right.
I've got Kodiaks, Executioners, and Bear Cubs already. And ironically enough I've actuall been considering many of those same choices, although the Solitarie escaped me. The only reason I wouldn't consider it is it's not an Omni-Mech and right now the light star I have is all Omni's (two Fire Moth's, two Vipers, and one Mist Lynx) for carrying my Elementals into the backfield (in a larger game of course).
The Tyr's are definetly on my list. The Svantovit's as well and I figured rounding out the Star would be two SM1's (clearly salvaged from Nova Cat or Combine forces). Four Eponas and pair of the other vehicles each will give me more that a supportive Star of Battle Armor which means I could throw some Golem, Salamanders, or Rogue Bears in there.
I don't often want to do tonnage restricted but most of my opponents prefer the simplicity of it. I want to learn more BT of course so eventually BV balanced games will be played of course. And then I'll try an introduce AS to the mix for people so I might get to play a full Cluster lol.
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For combat vehicles, the Bears don’t offer much new,
Say it with me. "Axel IIC".
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Say it with me. "Axel IIC".
Good catch. Adds some Rasalhagian flavor in addition to being one of the best line tanks in the game.
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Too slow for the light Trinary that my vehicles are in but agree
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Gonna order a star of mechs this weekend after payday, any suggestions? Nothing specific in mind hence why I'm asking.
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Well I'll take two Karhu's, 2 Viking IC's, two Tyr Hovertanks, 15 Rogue Bears, and 10 Golems.... oh you meant for you?
What Ghost Bear forces do you have currently? What gaps are their in your forces? Do you have Kirghiz's dropping Elementals? Do you have a Supernova Trinary with a boat load of speed demons? What about a 3150 force?
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Well I'll take two Karhu's, 2 Viking IC's, two Tyr Hovertanks, 15 Rogue Bears, and 10 Golems.... oh you meant for you?
What Ghost Bear forces do you have currently? What gaps are their in your forces? Do you have Kirghiz's dropping Elementals? Do you have a Supernova Trinary with a boat load of speed demons? What about a 3150 force?
Kek. Bear wise I have a karhu and a mad dog mk4. Started a group so I have incentive to start building some forces. My end goal bear wise is roughly 2 trinary's painted in rasalhague galaxy colors.
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Definetly a Kodiak is needed along with an Executioner. Vipers or Fire Moths and some Eponas, along with probably at least a Timber Wolf or two, a Grizzly, and some Elementals.
Then sprinkle in some Rasalhague Mechs, Lyran Mechs, ComStar, and Kuritan Mechs (at least one per star). My favorite is of course the Berserker. Of course based on the time frame some of those might not be in your force because they are so old, depends on whether or not you want a more Front Line feel or second line feel.
Just my two cents.
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Is a Kingfisher with a fully armoured XL engine and armoured compact gyro still a Kingfisher?
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Is a Kingfisher with a fully armoured XL engine and armoured compact gyro still a Kingfisher?
Becomes a EmporerFisher.
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Hmmm. A Kingfisher is hard to modernize. It is using Endo and Ferro already. The std engine is iconic and you have to go 4/6 because 90 tons is a break point. You can't just slap XL gyros and small cockpits on everything and anything else new cuts into pod tonnage.
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It's one of those mechs that's a classic as is, the zombie factor really does it for me. What I wanna see is a Imp IIc since one of our founders is famous for piloting one.
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I'd just load the Kingfisher down with energy weapons, a Targeting Computer and a Radical Heat Sink for funsies.
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Agreed to the previous couple of posts. While a cool NuTech Kingfisher would be cool, I don't know how much you could really do.
The Imp IIC would be an interesting second line option I could see loaded down with fire support options similar to the Imp C except maybe because it's a Bear mech a bit faster, IDK.
Now on other business: Trothkin the Hell Horses have demanded another Trial! This time my battle will be 450 tons on a slightly larger map (I think a two by two).
In terms of my machines I'm definetly going to switch a couple variants around , probably add a Stormcrow and maybe the Nova Cat B or E for fire support. I want to bring the Kodiak and the Berserker but on the larger map I would think these might be a liability without a larger supporting force. However an Executioner might fit the bill and while higher in tonnage it might be worth it.
Any additional advice my trothkin?
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Why not a Triple of Ursus-PR?
That's 3 50 ton mechs...
TT
I know I'm a mean-y ol' Horseman... but what's evil for me can be evil for you, noh? >:D
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If you're only limited by tonnage and not bv, take a executioner F. Proceed to be a mobile sniper and swim in tears.
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I’d second the Executioner F.
One design I have not mentioned is the Marauder IIC 7. Bear exclusive, hard-hitting and accurate weapons mix at long-range, and jump jets. If the terrain is fairly open, it can really contribute on a small mapboard like that. Similar role to the Nova Cats you’re looking at, albeit 15 tons heavier.
Nothing wrong with the C3 on the Ursus PR, but fluff-wise, it’s intended for dezgra rebels, not honorable trials against other Clans.
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Was definitely looking at the Executioner F. The Marauder IIC I don't have any Marauder minis and don't necessarily like proxies but I see your point about it.
On force composition I was just theorycrafting last night and realized I could get two full Nova Stars of light and medium Mechs onto the field for pure chaos. The idea was hilarious until o realized the opponents Savage Coyote and Thunder Stallion probably could eliminate one per turn.
On other theorycrafting I could bring a Dire Wolf, Kodiak, Berserker, Warhawk, and Mad Dog and sit back and annihilate anything that came near. Of course I have turtled in the past in other games (and could claim my Bears are just hibernating) but it seemed kinda cheesy.
So think I'm just gonna mod my original force with some heavier anchors.
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Was definitely looking at the Executioner F. The Marauder IIC I don't have any Marauder minis and don't necessarily like proxies but I see your point about it.
On force composition I was just theorycrafting last night and realized I could get two full Nova Stars of light and medium Mechs onto the field for pure chaos. The idea was hilarious until o realized the opponents Savage Coyote and Thunder Stallion probably could eliminate one per turn.
On other theorycrafting I could bring a Dire Wolf, Kodiak, Berserker, Warhawk, and Mad Dog and sit back and annihilate anything that came near. Of course I have turtled in the past in other games (and could claim my Bears are just hibernating) but it seemed kinda cheesy.
So think I'm just gonna mod my original force with some heavier anchors.
Don't forget the bears are known for waiting till they have a opening then rushing in, totally within character.
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Are we talking Binary or Star? 450/5=90. /10=45.
Vikings, Marauder IICs, Executioner, dance around 90. Kodiaks wreck your budget.
Looking at smalet options. Karhu was designed with a secondary aim of tonnage games.
Shadowhawk IC 2 is classic Bear fire support.
Can't go wrong with a Horned Owl.
Vipers give a very effective fast lift wing. Combine with Firemoths. 140 to 160 tons. Leaves 300 tons for the big guys.
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Hmmm. A Kingfisher is hard to modernize. It is using Endo and Ferro already. The std engine is iconic and you have to go 4/6 because 90 tons is a break point. You can't just slap XL gyros and small cockpits on everything and anything else new cuts into pod tonnage.
Reinforced Structure. Eat the reduction in pod space, you get a significant boost in durability that isn't otherwise possible. The -2 to crit rolls makes it a truly monstrous zombie to take down.
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Are we talking Binary or Star? 450/5=90. /10=45.
Vikings, Marauder IICs, Executioner, dance around 90. Kodiaks wreck your budget.
Looking at smalet options. Karhu was designed with a secondary aim of tonnage games.
Shadowhawk IC 2 is classic Bear fire support.
Can't go wrong with a Horned Owl.
Vipers give a very effective fast lift wing. Combine with Firemoths. 140 to 160 tons. Leaves 300 tons for the big guys.
Basically whatever I want to bring within the tonnage limit: although since is a table game I'm limiting myself to units I own and MAYBE one proxied unit (again I dislike them).
I have talked with my opponent and after a couple more games we will be switching to BV
Edited: I just realized I have a Rifleman mini.... and by that I mean a Rifleman IIC I can bring :)
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In that case get as much BV per ton as you can before BV limits force assaults from your table.
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On force composition I was just theorycrafting last night and realized I could get two full Nova Stars of light and medium Mechs onto the field for pure chaos. The idea was hilarious until o realized the opponents Savage Coyote and Thunder Stallion probably could eliminate one per turn.
On other theorycrafting I could bring a Dire Wolf, Kodiak, Berserker, Warhawk, and Mad Dog and sit back and annihilate anything that came near. Of course I have turtled in the past in other games (and could claim my Bears are just hibernating) but it seemed kinda cheesy.
So think I'm just gonna mod my original force with some heavier anchors.
My take using your minis from upthread:
Battle Star Detachment
Timber Wolf A
Timber Wolf A
Timber Wolf A
Nova Battle
Stormcrow A
Elemental Point (APGR)
Nova S
Elemental Point (APGR)
Nova S
Elemental Point (APGR)
Viper I
Elemental Point (APGR)
Viper I
Elemental Point (APGR)
Totals 460 tons. If your opponent is a stickler, drop a T-Wolf for an M-Dog Prime.
In short, you have a cavalry trio of long-range hole-punchers/headcappers supporting a jumpy/mobile, yet highly survivable nova with accurate, close-range critting loadouts.
These eight Omnimechs can throw three to six ER PPCs, 16 to 25 pulse medium lasers, 12 to 30 Streak SRMs, and six heavy medium lasers (with targeting computer compensation) downrange each turn heat-constrained. All while moving 5/8/0 to 8/12/8, with half the force jump capable and with no light mech fragility. (And that doesn’t include the Elementals, 20 LRMs, six ATMs, MGs, and other odds and ends that come with this force.)
This is the kind of force that should easily outmaneuver and inflict higher TMMs on lumbering 3/5 and 4/6 designs like the T-Stallion, S-Yote, and G-Spider, while also overwhelming those designs with combined fire. Use the jump mobility and pulse lasers of the Novas to hit the T-Stallion on an exposed side where it cannot fire back. Use the T-Wolves’ speed to back up as fast as the S-Yote can advance its ATMs until those peepers open some holes in, or better yet, decapitate the Yote. Use the extreme mobility and heavy lasers of the Vipers to get under the G-Spider’s minimums.
Tie down his more valuable units with Elemental anti-mech attacks. Leg attacks against bipedal mechs like the G-Spider, and swarm attacks against quads like the T-Stallion. Consider infernos on the Elementals to cripple the Centaurs and constrain the firepower of the S-Yote and T-Stallion.
The Corvis is almost an afterthought.
With a bigger mapboard, you have more room to isolate and pounce on unsupported units. This kind of force gives you mobility, firepower, and survivability to do that repeatedly.
Hope this helps.
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Nothing wrong with the C3 on the Ursus PR, but fluff-wise, it’s intended for dezgra rebels, not honorable trials against other Clans.
Then Ursus-3's instead... Nova CEWS and all...
TT
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Then Ursus-3's instead... Nova CEWS and all...
TT
I think you mean Watchdog CEWS. The Ursus 3 is not a Society or Society-derived toy with a Nova CEWS, AFAIK.
And without C3 or Nova CEWS networked targeting feed advantage, the ProtoMech ACs of those designs are underpowered and underranged for their weight against regular Clan opponents, although specialty ammo can partially make up for that.
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I think you mean Watchdog CEWS. The Ursus 3 is not a Society or Society-derived toy with a Nova CEWS, AFAIK.
And without C3 or Nova CEWS networked targeting feed advantage, the ProtoMech ACs of those designs are underpowered and underranged for their weight against regular Clan opponents, although specialty ammo can partially make up for that.
Plus the gluttony of ecm, watchdog is only really helpful if you're playing with double blind, otherwise it's better to just take ecm.
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It carries 3 APG's each + 2 PAC-8s, all at 9+ hexes... ECM hides them in a bubble, use terrain...
TT
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Reinforced Structure. Eat the reduction in pod space, you get a significant boost in durability that isn't otherwise possible. The -2 to crit rolls makes it a truly monstrous zombie to take down.
Waaah? Structure weight goes from 4.5 tons to 18 tons. That is literally half your pod space.
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Waaah? Structure weight goes from 4.5 tons to 18 tons. That is literally half your pod space.
I didn't realize that a 90 ton Clan 'Mech only had ~25 tons of pod space. You can recoup some of that with an XL Gyro, since the -2 to crit chances absolutely recoups the durability issue from the increased crit spaces. Un-fix the seven extra DHSs and you can stay at ~20 tons pod space. Small Cockpit is a possibility at that point.
To be perfectly honest with Reinforced I wouldn't bat an eye at taking a unit with a Clan XL, either. That right there is 16.5 tons; or you can take 20 tons of pod space and cram it full of weapons with a high damage/tonnage ratio.
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Ick small cockpit.
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Took a karhu G out for a walk on my birthday today. Ended up taking out 150 tons worth of mechs. A battlemaster and a Thunderbolt.
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Ahh. The Karhu G. Also known as, "gee, the Executioner I worked out insanely better than I expected. I wonder if I can apply the same principles to another Bear Mech." Good to know that it works.
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The combination of super charger and jump jets hives it some insane mobility. I love taking it on canyon maps.
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So trothkin, I'm curious how many of us have pledged for the kickstarter and what units you're getting and what you plan to do with said units. I'm having to stop myself from making zeta galaxy! (Is 25% serious)
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Well since I don’t have money: nothing currently. As much as I want to buy a Galaxy as well I’ll most likely settle for a Trinary or Star. Although if they released them like the Lance Packs I might consider buying more as time went on rather than up front.
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Well since I don’t have money: nothing currently. As much as I want to buy a Galaxy as well I’ll most likely settle for a Trinary or Star. Although if they released them like the Lance Packs I might consider buying more as time went on rather than up front.
They'll be hitting the stores eventually, so you have time ^_^.
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So trothkin, I'm curious how many of us have pledged for the kickstarter and what units you're getting and what you plan to do with said units. I'm having to stop myself from making zeta galaxy! (Is 25% serious)
I've thrown in at the Star Colonel level and I'm definitely aiming for the Command Star, Heavy Striker, Fire Star for the Clan packs I'm choosing as rewards. I'm also heavily contemplating adding on the Heavy Battle Star.
I've only recently decided on Clan Ghost Bear, but, I'm thinking of representing either Beta or Rho Galaxy.
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Greetings, all of you nice Ghost Bear people.
After years and years of being poor and unable to play, I've finally gotten to the point where I can start getting fully back into Battletech and buy minis for the various units I want to create.
I've always loved the Ghost Bears (and the Blood Spirits but that is for a different day and thread). With the Kickstarter, I'll be able to pick up a lot of new minis, and I'm excited about it.
One of my plans is to create a GB trinary based on the minis I'll be able to get from the Kickstarter. I have two of the stars planned out already.
Alpha Star: 2 Executioners, 2 Mad Dogs, Timber Wolf
Bravo Star:--???
Charlie Star: 2 Vipers, 2 Fire Moths, 1 Mist Lynx
I also have 2 Elemental Stars and plan to use at least one of them for the trinary. A few trinaries during Operation Revival did use a single elemental star in addition to the three stars of OmniMechs. That is the era I'm using for the trinary, post-Tukayyid and pre-Refusal War. The one unit I was thinking of using was the 3rd Bear Guards of Alpha Galaxy as they had 2 of these types of trinaries in the cluster.
Now, it does depend on what I get in the few salvage packs I'll be receiving, but Bravo Star is giving me a bit of trouble. The Ghost Bears were rebuilding after Tukayyid, so I feel I can include a decent mix of OmniMechs. I can include a Kingfisher and a Nova. The rest I am unsure about. A Stormcrow, I suppose as the Bears did use them.
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Of course my dream Supernova is 15 Fire Moths with the Benny Hill music playing in the background, but that's not exactly feasible for the foreseeable future.
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I feel trothkin I've has this exact same conversation in the past week... Bear in mind in tonnage based games a Supernova Trinary of Fire Moths and Elementals works out to only 375 tons ;)
That being said Natasha gave me some good advice as did the others: a Stormcrow, Mad Dog, and Nova are always good Mechs. If you wanted a Heavier Star the Executioner and Kingfisher work well.
I also approve of the Third Bear Guards: I myself affiliate with the First Bear Guards so welcome to Alpha Galaxy trothkin!
Also an FYI I don’t know if it’s in the Kickstarter but the Stooping Hawk is a decent medium Omni and is both on the Ghost Bear and Blood Spirit tables for availability.
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Alpha Star: 2 Executioners, 2 Mad Dogs, Timber Wolf
Bravo Star:--???
Charlie Star: 2 Vipers, 2 Fire Moths, 1 Mist Lynx
I also have 2 Elemental Stars and plan to use at least one of them for the trinary. A few trinaries during Operation Revival did use a single elemental star in addition to the three stars of OmniMechs. That is the era I'm using for the trinary, post-Tukayyid and pre-Refusal War. The one unit I was thinking of using was the 3rd Bear Guards of Alpha Galaxy as they had 2 of these types of trinaries in the cluster.
Now, it does depend on what I get in the few salvage packs I'll be receiving, but Bravo Star is giving me a bit of trouble. The Ghost Bears were rebuilding after Tukayyid, so I feel I can include a decent mix of OmniMechs. I can include a Kingfisher and a Nova. The rest I am unsure about. A Stormcrow, I suppose as the Bears did use them.
Looking at the what’s available in the Clan Star packs from the Kickstarter, some slower Bear classics like the Kodak and Marauder IIC (Bears make the 4 and 7) are available to you to pair with your Kingfisher and Executioners. Pairing your Elementals with your Fire Moths, it would look like this:
Assault Star
Kodiak
Marauder IIC 4 or 7
Kingfisher
Executioner
Executioner
Battle Star
Timber Wolf
Mad Dog
Mad Dog
Stormcrow
Nova
Striker Nova
Viper
Viper
Mist Lynx
Fire Moth
Elemental Point
Fire Moth
Elemental Point
If your two points have five Elemental figures each (10 total), you could put one Elemental per hex base to represent a point (instead of five Elementals per hex base to represent a point). That would give you ten points of Elementals, enough to put a point on each omnimech in the Battle and Striker Stars, making each a full Nova. Doesn’t look as cool on the table, but easier to paint/assemble and stretches your BT bucks.
You can also justify the occasional design from other Clans through isorla or trade like Shadow Cats, Summoners, Nova Cats, and Warhawks. They’re also in the fundraiser.
Hope this helps.
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@Tyler and Natasha.
Thanks for the advice. It's much appreciated. I completely forgot about the Kodiak. There are times when I think Frontline Cluster = OmniMech, especially when it comes to the Invading Clans. A Warhawk is a definite possibility with the Smoke Jaguars as neighbors. If I get another Executioner out of the salvage pack, it's definitely going in. I'm an Executioner fan.
I had a hard time choosing the Galaxy and Cluster for my trinary. It all came down to the Star Captain character I developed for the unit and where she fought throughout Revival. 3rd Bear Guards just seemed to fit the best. I can post the bio of the character once I have her history fleshed out a bit more. Warning, she is a bit...different from your average Clan warrior. Not Mary Sue-like, just different :).
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I completely forgot about the Kodiak. There are times when I think Frontline Cluster = OmniMech, especially when it comes to the Invading Clans. A Warhawk is a definite possibility with the Smoke Jaguars as neighbors. If I get another Executioner out of the salvage pack, it's definitely going in. I'm an Executioner fan.
I just want to plug the Marauder IIC again.
The 7 moves 3/5/3, carries max armor, and can deal with anything at range thanks to a Gauss, HAG-30, and pulse large, all tied into a targeting computer. Up close, dual Streak-4s and ER smalls crit and deal with infantry.
The 4 is less versatile and accurate, but nothing says I hate you like twin HAG-40s.
It takes a while for the Clans to recover from Tukayyid, so it would not surprise to see some homegrown Bear Marauder IIC variants in their frontline clusters.
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One thing to note: Both the Marauder IIC 4 and 7 are Jihad-era designs. If you're firm about the era ("post-Tukayyid and pre-Refusal War"), these would not be available. The standard Marauder IIC is still a good choice, as would be the standard Warhammer IIC.
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One thing to note: Both the Marauder IIC 4 and 7 are Jihad-era designs. If you're firm about the era ("post-Tukayyid and pre-Refusal War"), these would not be available. The standard Marauder IIC is still a good choice, as would be the standard Warhammer IIC.
It's tempting to use one of those. As it will be quite some time before the Kickstarter rewards arrive, I have time to think about it. I can simply wait to see what is in the Salvage packs that I will be getting.
I am having way too much fun creating new units these days. It's been a blast.
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Okay, I warned you that my character is not your usual Clan warrior. I hereby introduce Star Captain Peri Rand, CO of the 219th Trinary of the 3rd Bear guards.
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To this day, there are some in Clan Ghost Bear who think one huge joke is being played on their Clan.
Peri was decanted in 3029 and placed into an eagerly anticipated sibko that contained a number of highly regarded bloodlines though hers was only considered barely average. Throughout her formative years, Peri appeared to be just another run-of-the-mill trainee with some feeling that she would not last through the training. Peri was quiet and studious as a child and did not stand out amongst her more gregarious sibkin.
However, she did have a bit of a mischievous streak that did not go unnoticed, though nobody ever discovered that it was Peri who put the itching powder into the freshly cleaned laundry.
With so many talented sibkin around her, Peri was repeatedly overlooked even though she passed every test assigned to her. She earned her way into the ranks of the Warrior Caste, testing out as a Star Commander in 3047. Many were stunned to see her join Alpha Galaxy, the Clan’s premier galaxy, over other newly minted warriors seen as more talented than her.
In reality, a new Warrior named Perry was supposed to join Alpha, but someone made a mistake with the paperwork. Regardless of the mistake, Peri quickly proved the doubters wrong and became an excellent warrior.
Clan Ghost Bear should have taken the hint that there was something not quite right about Star Commander Peri when in her first battle with the Clan she began singing an ancient Terran song – Sherry by the Four Seasons. Only she sang it as Peri instead of Sherry. Where she learned the lyrics nobody knows and Peri would not say. The truth is she found a small cache of music brought to the Pentagon Worlds by the SLDF-in-Exile, though she keeps it hidden.
Her quirky personality began outwardly showing up more and more as the months went by and during the lead-up to Operation Revival. She was definitely an atypical warrior. Peri always seemed happy and just went with the flow never seeming upset about losing a trial or overly happy about winning one.
Her prized collection of Clan Spaniel tee-shirts has definitely lifted more than a few eyebrows.
She fought a dozen Trials of Grievances the first six months after becoming a full-fledged warrior of Clan Ghost Bear, her opponents feeling she was not acting like a proper warrior. Peri easily defeated all of her opponents. The last one saw her actually losing her temper in the Circle of Equals. Peri started beating her opponent severely, all the while yelling:
“Who is your daddy? Who is your mommy? Because it sure as hell it is not Nicholas Kerensky otherwise he would spank you just like I am doing to you now.”
Witnesses stated it was the oddest thing they had ever heard.
There are times when she shows her excellent tactical skill and deadliness as a MechWarrior and the next she seems like a complete ditz. Once during a trial against Clan Hell’s Horses, she suddenly pulled up and pointed with the hand actuator of her Executioner. Peri was then heard saying:
“Ghost bear cub! Aww, is he not the cutest thing in the whole world?”
Completely baffled, as both sides had heard her, the trial paused for a complete minute before continuing. Peri’s trinary won the trial thanks in part to Peri taking down the Hell’s Horses Star Captain because he took a wild shot at said Ghost Bear cub, thankfully missing the animal. There are unconfirmed reports that Peri used the same hand actuator to give said Star Captain a rather rude gesture as she stood over his fallen Gargoyle.
When Operation Revival began, Peri was ready and willing to go. She had longed to see the Inner Sphere. This was her chance at last.
In every battle, Peri was her usual jovial and quirky self. When an entire cluster in Beta Galaxy was lost due to an accident, it affected her greatly. Three of her sibkin were assigned to that cluster.
Peri was quiet for a long time afterward. Her fellow warriors were actually starting to miss the old Peri. Eventually she regained her good cheer and fought with distinction until the year of peace and all bloodnamed warriors were recalled to elect a new IlKhan.
When Alpha Galaxy invaded Alshain in December of 3051, Peri was ready for a good fight. A cheerful Peri sang Christmas songs during combat and in between battles, exasperating her commanders. The sight of Peri’s Executioner with its head painted like it was wearing a Santa Claus hat was surely a weird sight on the battlefield.
On Tukayyid, the fight with ComStar was a nasty one. Her trinary took a lot of damage with several of her warriors wounded and two killed. The loss of her Star Captain saddened her. They may have been on opposite ends of the political spectrum (Peri being a Warden and he a Crusader), but she held plenty of respect for him.
The fifteen-year truce is not to her liking as she wants to see Terra before she dies. However, ComStar won so she has to deal with the disappointment.
Shortly after Tukayyid, Peri’s name was thrown into the ring for a Rand bloodname. Against all odds, Peri won her bloodname after a grueling Grand Melee and several rounds of competition. Mere days after earning her bloodname, Peri tested upward and earned a Star Captain’s rank assuming command of her trinary.
Peri’s Executioner does not use one of the known loadouts seen on the other battlefields. As she likes to say:
“I pilot an Awesome only it is bigger, runs faster, and it jumps. Dare I say…it is awesome?”
She is a deadly MechWarrior and can make her machine deftly move around the battlefield striking when an opponent is least expecting it causing him to miss in turn. More than once Peri has been overhead taunting her opponent by saying:
“You missed me! You missed me!”
This is always followed by an odd noise and a giggle. Peri uses the resulting anger her opponent is feeling to her advantage as her opponent loses his or her temper.
She also has a strange fondness for the Fire Moth, though she will never pilot one. Peri once famously said during a trial against Clan Smoke Jaguar:
“I love watching Fire Moths carry elementals at full speed. I always picture those elementals yelling ‘Wheeeee!’ as they go into battle.”
Peri doesn’t usually worry about the other Clans, though she does not like Clan Hell’s Horses like any good Ghost Bear. Most are simply ignored by her as she is too busy dealing with her own life. She has a distinct dislike for the Smoke Jaguars and Jade Falcons, however. In her words:
“They are just plain no fun to be around. They take everything way too seriously. Party poopers, the lot of them.”
There will come a day when she will finally get her wish. She wants her entire trinary to be composed of Executioners and Fire Moths. Maybe even an entire cluster, though that is wishful thinking on her part. Until that day arrives, she’s just going to have to make do.
So far, Khan Bjorn Jorgensson and SaKhan Aletha Kabrinski have ignored her suggestion to start producing a collection of Clan Spaniel plushies for the kids living on the new worlds the Clan has captured. They have even ignored her pleas for Ghost Bear plushies much to her disappointment. She will not give up hope, however.
When asked about her quirky personality and how odd it is in comparison to other warriors, Peri’s usual reply is:
“We are one giant family, and, hey, every family has that one crazy aunt or uncle.”
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Quirky, you left out what her great work is! What's the variant of the executioner? Just ppcs? You might enjoy piloting the F configuration, it sounds like her kinda jam.
As for the plushies, that's easier said that done in the sphere as opposed to in the homeworlds.
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Quirky, you left out what her great work is! What's the variant of the executioner? Just ppcs? You might enjoy piloting the F configuration, it sounds like her kinda jam.
As for the slushies, that's easier said that done in the sphere as opposed to in the homeworlds.
I haven't figured out her great work yet. (And I kind of forgot about it :-[ ) As for the Executioner, it's the same weapon configuration as the Awesome 8Q - 3 PPCs and a small laser, though obviously all ER Clan versions. Only the ER SL is in the arm, not the head. The F config does look interesting.
As for the plushies, her idea is, "Hey, it's a cute stuffed animal. What kid doesn't like cute stuffed animals?" At least produce the Ghost Bear plushies, she feels. It's also a PR move. Start 'em young.
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As for the plushies, her idea is, "Hey, it's a cute stuffed animal. What kid doesn't like cute stuffed animals?" At least produce the Ghost Bear plushies, she feels. It's also a PR move. Start 'em young.
I’d buy one! Also very amusing character, and yes I would be interested in the variant as well. Although you could always replicate the Awesome 9Q or one of the new partial wing Awesome's in the fan made section strapped onto an Executioner frame.
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Supercharger is one of those technology's that didn't gain widespread use till 3078, the tech was around for centuries. Anyone else think the Executioner F is viable during the invasion?
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Supercharger is one of those technology's that didn't gain widespread use till 3078, the tech was around for centuries. Anyone else think the Executioner F is viable during the invasion?
I would say it is or at least seems less advanced than MASC, so why not?
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Well, if the Kodiak is kicked off the kickstarter as the new proposal states, then I need to revise my trinary. Disappointing to say the least.
On the other hand, if we meet the Backer goal, then I can get 2 Clan box mini packs instead of buying a second box. That means I can add another Executioner to the star. Still thinking of of the fifth point.
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Well, if the Kodiak is kicked off the kickstarter as the new proposal states, then I need to revise my trinary. Disappointing to say the least.
On the other hand, if we meet the Backer goal, then I can get 2 Clan box mini packs instead of buying a second box. That means I can add another Executioner to the star. Still thinking of of the fifth point.
Long run wise it doesn't affect anything too much, I was just hoping to not deal with metal minis as much as possible. I might end up picking a elemental pack instead and convert a star to a nova.
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Well, if the Kodiak is kicked off the kickstarter as the new proposal states, then I need to revise my trinary. Disappointing to say the least.
Without breaking Rule 9, there are lots of old Kodiaks (and even Kodiak IIs) available online. They won’t be plastic or the new sculpt, but they’ll do.
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So, I'm curious about the Dominion as a faction. Attempts to research them got wildly contradictory information and mostly threads full of arguments.
What is the Dominion like in terms of society? Combat playstyle? Common Mechs? Things like that.
For example, if I were to describe the Free Worlds League on this basis, I would tell you that they are "typically socially tolerant, decent living standards and human rights, but with some odd biases against bionics and a few other groups. VERY loosely similar to various parts of Europe in overall social tone. Prone to in-fighting. They fight using a combined arms approach, with the bulk of their Mechs being 4/6/* or 5/8/* (where '*' is a jump speed number that may be 0, or higher) and focusing on missiles. Using their speed, they usually try to close to medium range. Any given Mech usually has a wide mix of weapons; the team works together as a bizarre whole where no one Mech is essential to their gameplan. Their more important Mechs include the Awesome 9M, Anvil 3R, Hercules 9001, Carronade, Shockwave series in general, Juliano series in general, Wolverine 7M, and their Archer series in general. They have only a few 'juggernaut' style assaults, generally lacking any obvious equivalent to the Atlas or Hellstar or Thunder Hawk."
Edit: Common enemies for 3145-ish would be cool too.
Any overview would be appreciated.
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What is the Dominion like in terms of society?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rasalhague_Dominion (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rasalhague_Dominion)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Ghost_Bear (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Ghost_Bear)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Free_Rasalhague_Republic (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Free_Rasalhague_Republic)
Combat play style?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Ghost_Bear_Touman (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Ghost_Bear_Touman)
Common Mechs?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Clan_Ghost_Bear_BattleMechs (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Clan_Ghost_Bear_BattleMechs)
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Thank you. I am aware Sarna exists. It is often outdated and a lot of what I hear on it contradicts what I hear elsewhere. I was looking for a more human reply, not Sarna links.
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If you don't have them already, Era Report 3145 and Field Manual 3145 would be sound investments.
*Caveat - I do not typically play Dominion forces.*
Dominion Society
The Dominion is an odd mix of Swedish/Japanese space vikings, and Clan. Over the years, the Dominion has evolved into a fairly equal society, with the Elected Prince and Khan holding near equal power. Civilian society largely follows traditional Rasalhague leanings, while the military is Clan through and through. In the 3130's, dissenters (known as Freeminders) were shipped off to Vega to 'shore up' the Republic. This led to the creation of the Vega Protectorate, which was later absorbed into the Dominion proper.
Common Mechs
Best resource would be the MUL. http://www.masterunitlist.info/ (http://www.masterunitlist.info/)
Following is a non-comprehensive list.
Wraith and Elemental Battle Armour. Mongrel. Vulture III and IV. Koshi (all varieties). Black Hawk. Gravedigger. Viking IIC. Kodiak 1 and 2. Dasher II. Ursus. Karhu. Bruin.
Allies
The Snow Ravens of the Raven Alliance. What is left of the Republic of the Sphere. What is left of the Wolves-in-Exile.
Enemies
The Draconis Combine. The Nova Cats (before their destruction). The Jade Falcons. The Hell's Horses (kinda?). The Wolf Empire.
Tactics
The Bears of the Dominion use a mix of high mobility and wall of steel. Elementals are run in close to targets on light omnis or vehicles, followed up by a slow moving, heavily armed wall of firepower.
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That sounds cool. ...It also sounds like a notable disinterest in Zellbrigen; am I right in believing the Ghost Bears have gotten away from that some over the years?
Still, that looks like a neat playstyle. Pick where you want to fight, then rush the enemy with light elements to keep them busy in that area while the big guns move in to close-combat? Interesting.
Thank you for the reply!
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There is also one other thing about the Ghost Bears you need to keep in mind.
Don't make them mad! Making Ghost Bears mad is a really bad idea. In the movie The Untouchables, Sean Connery tells Kevin Costner "If he sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the Morgue."
Well, if you send a Ghost Bear to the hospital, the Ghost Bears don't send one of yours to the Morgue. They send about 1500 to the Morgue...if they are feeling generous.
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That sounds cool. ...It also sounds like a notable disinterest in Zellbrigen; am I right in believing the Ghost Bears have gotten away from that some over the years?
Still, that looks like a neat playstyle. Pick where you want to fight, then rush the enemy with light elements to keep them busy in that area while the big guns move in to close-combat? Interesting.
Thank you for the reply!
Mid invasion the bears decide since the inner sphere won't play by the rules then they won't either and officially dispense with zellbrigen against inner sphere opponents.
I have a ghostbear write up that jellico did years ago that's pretty handy, pm me your email and I'll send it.
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The Dominion is an odd mix of Swedish/Japanese space vikings
Swedish or Scandinavian or Norse (and certainly Japanese) does not equal Viking. That’s like saying that being an American is the same thing as being a Hell’s Angel.
There’s really nothing Viking about the old Free Rasalhague Republic. They weren’t known for raiding neighbors or undertaking far-flung exploration/trading expeditions or for settling/colonizing new worlds. There are Viking-ish aspects to the Bandit Kings, the Clans, the old Terran Hegemony, and certain other BT entities like the Explorer Corps. But not to the FRR.
What’s unique or interesting about the FRR is that it was a real democracy all the way up to the Elected Prince when no other House or major power was. And that has been carried over onto the civilian side of the Rasalhague Dominion.
(Early Norse peoples also practiced limited forms of local democracy, but the accumulation and concentration of wealth and power from Viking activities was actually one of the enablers of the rise of non-democratic, medieval monarchies in Denmark, Norway, and Sweden.)
On the Clan side, the Bears are unique for their sense of family within the Clan ranks. This derives from their founders who were a (married, I think?) couple. The Bears have extended their sense of family by adopting the Rasalhagians.
Also notable is the degree to which the Bear touman has submitted itself to civilian rule, something not seen in other Spheroid Clan nation-states. And also notable is the amount of Rasalhagian named units (Gunzburg Eagles, Drakons, Freemen, Kavallari) and Rasalhagian bloodnames that appear in the Bear touman in the 32nd century.
Over the years, the Dominion has evolved into a fairly equal society, with the Elected Prince and Khan holding near equal power.
IIRC, the government is tripartite, with two executives — the Elected Prince on the civilian side and the Khan on the military side — both answering to a legislature.
Wraith and Elemental Battle Armour
Golem, Rogue Bear, Kobold IIC, Kobold
Mongrel. Vulture III and IV. Koshi (all varieties). Black Hawk. Gravedigger. Viking IIC. Kodiak 1 and 2. Dasher II. Ursus. Karhu. Bruin.
Like nearly all Clans, the Bears have almost always had access to the Mist Lynx (Koshi) and Nova (Black Hawk). But their homegrown, go-to light and medium omnis are actually the Fire Moth (Dasher) and Viper (Dragonfly).
Also notably missing are the Executioner (Gladiator), the original Mad Dog (Vulture), Arcas, Grizzly, Beowulf IIC, Kuma, Bear Cub, Ryoken II, and various Locust IIC and Marauder IIC variants.
The Bears of the Dominion use a mix of high mobility and wall of steel. Elementals are run in close to targets on light omnis or vehicles, followed up by a slow moving, heavily armed wall of firepower.
Yes on high mobility. No on wall of steel.
Ghost Bear assaults are fast or mobile for their sizes. The Executioner goes 4-6(8)-4 (or more depending on configuration). The Bruin moves 4-6-4. The Kodiaks move 4-6, not 3-5. Even the Marauder IIC variants jump. It’s more of a charge-and-overwhelm force than a stand-and-deliver force. More blitz than steady advance.
With some standard Clan cavalry exceptions like the various Mad Dogs/Vultures, this need for speed and mobility, usually in heavier-than-normal weights for those speeds, extends all the way down the weight classes, from jumping Karhus, to fast/jumpy Vipers, to speed-demon Fire Moths.
There is also one other thing about the Ghost Bears you need to keep in mind.
Don't make them mad! Making Ghost Bears mad is a really bad idea.
It’s less that the Bears are prone to fits of rage and more that they act like their namesake (as silly as that sounds). The Ghost Bear is known to wait for days (weeks?) in snow drifts until prey approaches and then attack with all surprise, speed, and ferocity.
Similarly, the Bear military leadership and touman is slow to react, but when they decide to go to war, it’s all-out, pedal-to-the-metal, no-holds-barred. We’ve seen this time and again with the Nova Cats and the Blakists, and there now appears to be another slow-motion roll towards war developing in the Vega Protectorate that may have the Bears explode into action again in ilClan.
Strategically, the Bears can be summed up with the old adage of “Don’t poke a sleeping bear (unless you want to get mauled).”
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Supernovas and Novas are also used more commonly that other factions.
At one point the Ghost Bears also condensed all of their Elementals into a Galaxy (Zeta) and all of their Aerospace into a Galaxy (Valkyrie) to go along with their THREE Leviathan class Battleships. Those three ships plus the Ursa Major (a Night Lord) left quite a trail of destruction before most of their destruction.
The Ghost Bears now have four Galaxies of primarily Rasalhague troops. The old Tyr, Drakon, Hussar, and Kavelleri regiments have been converted into Galaxies and Clusters. Many Rasalhague names have been incorporated as Bloodnames (?). Many of the Clan and Inner Sphere traditions have merged and castes and marriage might be overlooked especially in the ‘old’ Vega Protectorate.
Mobility is a hallmark of Ghost Bear designs but several of the Rasalhague designs use different and older techs, often ones with bad reputations: Hatchets, Stealth Armor, C3i.
The fact that the Dominion uses a dual government is very unique and actually is part in why the Ghost Bears are the best set of all the Inner Sphere Clans that have merged with their hosts.
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I can see where you get contradictory from.
Probably the big thing to remember is that the Dominion is a living work in progress. What is true in 2850 is different in 3045, 3055, 3065, 3090, 3100 and 3130. There have been some big mood shifts over the years and the fans recollections don't always keep up. Most of the above is right for a given time and place. I will try and post something more detailed when I get to a computer.
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So, after reading the attached doc we are up to 3085.
The Ghost Bear Dominion comes out of the Dominion relatively intact. The populace is mostly happy and increasingly comfortable as Clantech filters down. Eg the Dominion inherited the Ghost Bear's JumpShip fleet so is more connected than the average IS House.
Things bumble along until the 2nd DC/GB War. The Touman wages said war as a total war as that is how they see the world. The Dominion civilians are horrified to learn that their military are a bunch of psychopaths comfortable with genocide. So they kick up a fuss and enforce civilian control resulting in the tripartite Rasalhague Dominion.
Jump forward to 3130. The hardline traditionalists are running the Touman. The Civilians are well meaning.
Militarily FM3045 is a good place to go. Everyone is basically an extension of what they were in the 3080s or even the 3060 FMs. Nothing ever changes in BT. The very best frontline units are combat pragmatists. The next rung down are more hidebound. The lower level stuff are pragmatists because of the junk they have to work with. Just remember that they have all been squeezed down to a point in the 3130s where everyone is running binaries instead of trinaries and everyone has a tank binary. They are all grumpy and elitist accordingly. By 3145 the frontline units have got their full Mech Clusters back. Some Clusters even want to keep their tanks.
Across the Touman there is a wide range of views of what to fight a war with*. But the basic tactics remain, probe to find weakness then charge on into the schwerpunkt with maximum weight.
*There are Clusters that favour physical attacks. Clusters that love fire support. Clusters that are tank heavy. There are even Clusters that use Small Craft and "native trackers". You want it. The Bears probably have it. Ironically the more elite the more traditionally Clan and boring they will be.
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For the life of me I cannot tell why our fascination with the Mad Dog is...the Summoner just makes more sense from mobility and battle taxi perspectives; jump jets and arm mounted primary weapons. All the 3050 heavies are 5/8 so it is not like there is a speed freak outlier like the Firemoth for the lights and the Linebacker went to the Wolves when it came out.
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For the life of me I cannot tell why our fascination with the Mad Dog is...the Summoner just makes more sense from mobility and battle taxi perspectives; jump jets and arm mounted primary weapons. All the 3050 heavies are 5/8 so it is not like there is a speed freak outlier like the Firemoth for the lights and the Linebacker went to the Wolves when it came out.
Because the Vulture probably is the only heavy the Ghost Bears produce themselves and thus have reliable access too. Any Thors they possess likely come from trade or salvage.
In short, you take what you can get
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Also, bird legs are cool.
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Authors had claimed it for the Falcons already?
Statistically in our first RATs (FM:WC) the Summoner was our second most popular heavy and mostly maintained that position.
Honestly I think the Bears scored the Mad Dog as a booby prize behind the Wolves, Falcons, and Jaguars. These all received fleshing out before the Bears leaving only odd (by 3025 standards) options available. They then fluffed it out with the weight bonus making the Mad Dog the Bear's medium Mech.
In FM:WC there was usually a primary and secondary Mech in each weight bracket. Usually mobility and a trooper/fire support.
Firemoth and Adder
Viper and Nova/Storm Crow (identical %)
Mad Dog and Summoner (later prequel RATs made the Timber Wolf equal to the Summoner. Hellbringers were surprisingly common and virtually the only way to bring ECM till the late 60s)
Executioner and Warhawk/Kingfisher.
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Well, I woke up to learn the Kodiak is back in the Kickstarter. My Alpha Star for the Trinary I am building now looks like this:
3x Executioner, Kingfisher, and Kodiak.
All 4/6 move profile. I could make the first 4 all B Configurations, too. Ultra AC/20s for everyone! :D
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Awesome on the Kodiak! Where can I find the updates on the descriptions of the packs?
On the idea of the Mad Dog: I mean Clan LRM’s, Pulses, and Gauss Rifles? I wouldn’t generally carry my Elementals on one unless necessity demanded it. But for fire support? It’s a solid heavy design. The Mad Dog III gives me the capacity to rain 80 Clan LRM’s or 48 SRM’s in droves.
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Anyone who's a backer for the kickstarter needs to read rules of engagement!!! Good short story by Blaine Lee Pardoe about the ghost bears fighting the combine.
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Anyone who's a backer for the kickstarter needs to read rules of engagement!!! Good short story by Blaine Lee Pardoe about the ghost bears fighting the combine.
Yeah RL just F’ed up my bank account so I’m pretty sure I won’t be able to do the Kickstarter as I wanted to.
What time period? I assume Clan Invasion lol?
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Sorry to hear that trothkin. Takes place on Constance, first bear vs combine battle.
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Nice: yeah considering taking out a $5,000 dollar loan to donate and just ya know flee the country afterwords... Shipping to some random PO Box in some random country. Lol.
I will say that prior to that my Ghost Bear Cluster has grown: up to one Mixed weight Supernova Mech Trinary, one mostly Assault Trinary, and one mixed vehicle/mech Star now. With the Kickstarter and one more purchase I would of had a complete (Vehicle Nova/Mech Binary) Trinary and my Assault Trinary would be complete as well.
Woulda been nice.
And the last game I did play between my Nu-Grizzly and a Nightsky versus two Nova Cats: a Nova Cat and Shadow Cat, resulted in an overwhelming victory. Totally gonna outfit the last Trinary in my eventual Cluster with some Second Line Rasalhague forces including a Berserker commander ;)
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Kek this should be fun. If you have been a ghostbear/rasalhague dominion fan (I'll know who you are if you try to cheat..) I'm accepting megamek top for challenge coins over the next week. Limit is first 5.
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So in a 3 vs 4 trial the ghost bears carried the day!! Karhu G got mvp with 2 kills, hunchback iic and a highlander iic.
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Man I should have got a licensing agreement from Odin Manufacturing back when I did TRO3085 and 3145NTNu.
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Are there any Alpha, Beta, or Delta Clusters we don't have fluff for?
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Are there any Alpha, Beta, or Delta Clusters we don't have fluff for?
the only named Cluster that we don't have a specific write up for (I believe) is Rho's 48th Battle Cluster (which was disbanded after the Niles fight in 3048 and reformed into the 300th Battle Cluster)
and maybe new stuff during the Dark Age, I'm not too up to date on the more recent works
so no, nothing from Alpha, Beta or Delta AFAIK
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So trothkin in one week when the (second to last) shipment arrives I will have a full Cluster of Mechs and Elementals. It will be a bit over strength and missing about a Star of mechs and not assembled: but it will be complete.
I will have an Assault Trinary of mixed front and second line mechs, an Assault/Heavy Trinary, a Heavy/Medium Supernova (15 mechs and 50 Elementals), a Light Supernova (15 Mechs and 50 Elementals), and finally a Fully mixed Binary Nova of 5 Mechs, 10 Vehicles, and 50 Undine and Rogue Bear Suits (because when theirs a cheap deal why not?).
Gonna have to paint and assemble quite a lot but I’ve got a general scheme ready to go. Provisionally names the First Ghost Wolves Cluster. Have to post pictures eventually. So happy (albeit a bit poorer) :)
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Undines huh? You gonna be using the upgrade version?
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Undines huh? You gonna be using the upgrade version?
Now that I found out they exist: probably. Most likely never going to use them unless I really want to mess with my opponent by springing a full Star in a Lake somewhere, or I’m doing a Cluster vs. Cluster (or Regiment) Battle.
Got most Bear Mechs save the Kuma and Ursus (don’t want), the Bruin, Karhu, and Viking IIC (coming soon). Could probably use some Wraith, Golem, Gnome, and Constable Battle Armor, and maybe a Star of Aerospace Fighters (including Kirghiz for Elemental bombing runs). But again I’m happy for now.
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Now that I found out they exist: probably. Most likely never going to use them unless I really want to mess with my opponent by springing a full Star in a Lake somewhere, or I’m doing a Cluster vs. Cluster (or Regiment) Battle.
Got most Bear Mechs save the Kuma and Ursus (don’t want), the Bruin, Karhu, and Viking IIC (coming soon). Could probably use some Wraith, Golem, Gnome, and Constable Battle Armor, and maybe a Star of Aerospace Fighters (including Kirghiz for Elemental bombing runs). But again I’m happy for now.
Not a big fan of wraiths for some reason. As for aero, don't forget the ostrogoth!!
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Not a big fan of wraiths for some reason. As for aero, don't forget the ostrogoth!!
ostrogoth +1,000,000
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Now that I found out they exist: probably. Most likely never going to use them unless I really want to mess with my opponent by springing a full Star in a Lake somewhere, or I’m doing a Cluster vs. Cluster (or Regiment) Battle.
Got most Bear Mechs save the Kuma and Ursus (don’t want), the Bruin, Karhu, and Viking IIC (coming soon). Could probably use some Wraith, Golem, Gnome, and Constable Battle Armor, and maybe a Star of Aerospace Fighters (including Kirghiz for Elemental bombing runs). But again I’m happy for now.
Yes you do want Ursus. Incredibly cheap consistent performers.
Not a big fan of wraiths for some reason. As for aero, don't forget the ostrogoth!!
That is because Wraiths are garbage.
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That's a insult to garbage, at least you can sometimes salvage something from trash.
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You have no idea mate. That thing came across the table from MWDA and SillyBrit, Jymset, and I had to make something of it. While still retaining that two gunned Ghost Bear aesthetic that has come down through the Golem. At least we had managed to make stealth a Ghost Bear thing earlier.
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Garbage is also a more creative, long-term killer than a Wraith. They'll just fire machineguns at a target, whereas garbage will slowly destroy their environment over generations. Lie in wait and strike at the opportune moment, like a Ghost Bear.
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The Ursus is definitely under-rated, and I feel that it and the Arcas get overlooked for simply not being OmniMechs. It's cheap, it's functional and it gets the job done, even if it's not the best at the universe at it.
Or maybe I just like it for having a goony skull chest. That could be a part of it.
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I love the arcas! Anyone who under estimates it gets what they deserve.
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Which is why I field one with my Bowman 2 every time!
TT
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I think they make for very forgiving mechs with inexperienced players, plus the art with it wearing a cape is pretty awesome.
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Got an Arcas: need a second one.
Ostrogoths are also a definite, along with some Visigoths, Kirghiz’s, and not sure what else offhand: to be fair they are .... FAR in the future planning.
Wraith... meh? Maybe idk.
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I was showing my girlfriend some ghost bear photos and she remarked the logo was cute and looked like a teddy bear. :( :( :-\
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Maybe a Santa Bear. With metal teeth.
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Well the 6 year old blindsided me with a Christmas request today. She asked for a beginner box! Since I have one all ready I said she could use mine.
She asked for some minis so I'm looking for recommendations. I'm thinking a bear cub or a firemoth.
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So, as a matter of curiosity - do any ex-FRR players hang out here or is it just ex-Ghost Bears?
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So, as a matter of curiosity - do any ex-FRR players hang out here or is it just ex-Ghost Bears?
<Zoidberg> Why not both?
We get all types....some even like the hell horses!?!
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You have to know both to manage post 3060 so the older hands are good sources for the FRR and CGB.
If I had to be honest pre 3055 FRR knowledge is lacking around here. But by the same token you would be lucky to find pre 3055 FRR knowledge in the IS boards too. As a faction their pre Clan history sort of got squeezed out by events. War of 3039 and Fed Com stuff generally drew the attention away.
Actually I am hard pressed to think of any pure FRR posters. They are really genuinely rare. Like Niops probably has more support.
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The FRR are actually one of my favourite factions, although by no means the only one I play.
I'm just in the process of wrapping up a project - building the entire 3rd Hussars regiment circa 3067. I've just learned via Sarna that in their final form, each of their six fire lances was reinforced with two extra Vikings and am currently debating if I want to own another twelve Viking miniatures - seeing as I already have nine...
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The FRR are actually one of my favourite factions, although by no means the only one I play.
I'm just in the process of wrapping up a project - building the entire 3rd Hussars regiment circa 3067. I've just learned via Sarna that in their final form, each of their six fire lances was reinforced with two extra Vikings and am currently debating if I want to own another twelve Viking miniatures - seeing as I already have nine...
The answer is yes because you can convert them to Viking IIC’s eventually
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Well the 6 year old blindsided me with a Christmas request today. She asked for a beginner box! Since I have one all ready I said she could use mine.
She asked for some minis so I'm looking for recommendations. I'm thinking a bear cub or a firemoth.
Why not a Bear Cub for your bear cub?
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Bear Cub is an excellent training mech for the Ghost Bears. With the exception of DHS it has everything a sibko needs to learn to pilot.
A Fire Moth is a bit more advanced in general, I would advise a Viper over the Moth for training.
Bigger Mechs: Timber Wolf, Kingfisher, Executioner maybe?
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So people keep selling Elementals for cheap prices ... and I really want to pick them up but I just can’t justify it. Basically the gentleman’s offering four full Stars (and obviously I don’t need to buy ALL of them).
I already have four Stars of Elementals to go with my four full Trinaries. Do I really need more to go with my Cluster??? I was thinking of only two Stars to bump it up to two Mech Trinaries and two Mech/BA Supernova.
Do I take said deal or do I just wait for the Kickstarter.... help me trothkin!
EDIT: Now that I think about it: if I waste the money on all four Stars I’ll have four Binaries of Elementals, one Star of each Undines and Rogue Bears.... and still have my Mech cluster (without any Nova’s)......
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Can you ever have enough Elementals? :-)
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Can you ever have enough Elementals? :-)
Never but if I continue this way my opponents won’t want to wait as I set up 300+ Elementals on the field. I’ll never find an opponent for my new Claw Cluster of Zeta Galaxy.
EDIT: just gonna modify this.
In the future I’m gonna make a thread about my cluster as to not keep thread hijacking the page. I caved and only bought two Stars of Elementals. I’ll post a complete Touman probably tomorrow. Picked up eight Gnomes and am very upset I cannot buy another two or a single Undine to fill out those odd numbers.
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Never but if I continue this way my opponents won’t want to wait as I set up 300+ Elementals on the field. I’ll never find an opponent for my new Claw Cluster of Zeta Galaxy.
It depends, I use to play 40k with a Orc player who used to deploy the bulk of his forces by pouring them on the battlefield and then placing the important units
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You could also state that each Toad hex equals a Star...
I've fielded them that way before, course I told the OpFor ahead of time. Even went and colored and numbered each hex too... when I did break them up, I had single units on pennies to account each Point, same color and number.
TT
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It depends, I use to play 40k with a Orc player who used to deploy the bulk of his forces by pouring them on the battlefield and then placing the important units
I’ve seen that before too lol. Cracks me up especially with some of the 40K players attitudes.
I have thought about that TT but most of my games have been Star sized so I haven’t had that problem yet. If I do end up playing a larger game I’ll definitely keep that in mind.
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Well five pennies do equal a Star...
I've fielded close to a Cluster that way... Even used Nova formations like that, both tank and mech.
TT
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I have some questions about CBG.
Did they kick Comstar out? Clans obviously have the ability to maintain their own HPG network and they came with their entire clan after the invasion so they would have their own HPG techs and have no need for Comstar.
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I have some questions about CBG.
Did they kick Comstar out? Clans obviously have the ability to maintain their own HPG network and they came with their entire clan after the invasion so they would have their own HPG techs and have no need for Comstar.
Yep. After ComStar turned against the Clans for Tukayyid, they were kicked out of the Occupation Zone. Eventually, the rump Free Rasalhague Republic joined the Ghost Bears, and ComStar was kindly but forcefully evicted.
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Got some good news today!! I had a couple of mechs commissioned for painting that are almost done!! Got a Karhu and a mad dog mk4 in Rasalhague galaxy colors. I'll try and share photos once I get them.
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Oh god oh god I've done it: I've bought more Elementals.... somebody stop me. This will be Eight Stars of Elementals, one of Undine, and fifteen suits of Rogue Bear (planning on finishing out the star).
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The only way to get more Elementals is to go Hell's Horses. :o
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The only way to get more Elementals is to go Hell's Horses. :o
IDK man... I might have to paint up Zeta Galaxy and keep a full mech Cluster with out Elemental support.
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The only way to get more Elementals is to go Hell's Horses. :o
Grass is greener on the other side, and free pony rides for all!
TT
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Grass is greener on the other side, and free pony rides for all!
TT
I'm not opposed to working with them (especially them and the Ravens), but I'm sorry but I'll always be a Ghost Bear.
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The only way to get more Elementals is to go Hell's Horses. :o
*squinty eyes* isn't there a disco you're late for? ;),
I'm not opposed to working with them (especially them and the Ravens), but I'm sorry but I'll always be a Ghost Bear.
Never forget the greatest horse Khan was a former bear ^___^
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You’re not wrong .... but Jake did get a little bloodthirsty for a while (IIRC).
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*squinty eyes* isn't there a disco you're late for? ;),
A Raven is never late. They arrive exactly when they intended to.
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A Raven is never late. They arrive exactly when they intended to.
Isn't that the motto of your Combat salvage teams?
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For the Bear Touman during REVIVAL up through Tukayyid, how likely would it be to encounter a Kodiak in a front-line unit? Would there be any units that would be more likely to include BattleMechs in this timeframe, however rarely? Thanks!
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For the Bear Touman during REVIVAL up through Tukayyid, how likely would it be to encounter a Kodiak in a front-line unit? Would there be any units that would be more likely to include BattleMechs in this timeframe, however rarely? Thanks!
I know the kingfisher turned up with the bears and I think the jags during tuk. I think the kodiak was strictly second line at the time.
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Personally I would say strictly second line. About the only second line unit is that binary that shows up at Tukayyid.
In this day and age there is a demand to have some more variation in front line units. I would argue against it simply because of the the mess it makes of super novas etc.
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You mean Reserve Trinary Echo Four from the Tukayyid pack? That's part of the reason I asked, as the text has a line that states "...the rest of Beta Galaxy" in the fluff for the scenario including them, and that they were an all-BattleMech formation. That made me wonder what unit would have had second-line troops in a front-line Galaxy. I had thought I once read that the Polar Bear Clusters were mixed units but I can't find reference to that anywhere and so apparently made it up.
In this day and age there is a demand to have some more variation in front line units. I would argue against it simply because of the the mess it makes of super novas etc.
That's the next struggle, adding some variety in small units vs the ability to fully mechanize a Nova if needed/desired...
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You mean Reserve Trinary Echo Four from the Tukayyid pack? That's part of the reason I asked, as the text has a line that states "...the rest of Beta Galaxy" in the fluff for the scenario including them, and that they were an all-BattleMech formation. That made me wonder what unit would have had second-line troops in a front-line Galaxy. I had thought I once read that the Polar Bear Clusters were mixed units but I can't find reference to that anywhere and so apparently made it up.
The book says they were included as a middle finger to the other OG 4 invader clans who didn’t bring second line forces. Ghost Bear doesn’t give vehicles to second line forces unless they are PGC or Phalanx clusters, second line is just BattleMechs so mixed force types doesn’t matter, it’s just Omni vs Standard for the majority of the clusters (and nearly all clusters up to that point)
Polar Bear clusters were the Bears light/medium recon and pursuit clusters. They’d follow what ever equipment is deserving of their place in the toumen (Keshik/frontline/second line). It says somewhere (I think later on in the Tukkayid book, maybe, or sarna) they were disbanded after the 20th got wrecked. At the time they were the only cluster in the toumen that was organized as a Polar Bear cluster.
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I have question to you Rasalhague Dominion players. How does they society work and if it's towards Clan society how do Rasalhague people handled switch to caste system?
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I have question to you Rasalhague Dominion players. How does they society work and if it's towards Clan society how do Rasalhague people handled switch to caste system?
I’m pretty sure we just left them alone long enough they said ‘those guys seem alright’.
Then we exile the people who do too much disrupting of the family. Or send the super watch death squads to their hidey holes.
All kidding aside, there isn’t a whole lot. For the most part I’m pretty sure we did leave the people alone outside of military matters. Then merchants caste people got involved in IS markets and the politics that went with it. After the rest of the FRR was absorbed in the early stages of the Jihad it seemed kinda split between FRR government governs plebs, clan governs military and clans. Other clans seemed to stay distanced from conquered populations, and ghost bears didn’t really (aside from maybe warriors), they let their people mix with Spheroid populations.
After the Second Combine-Dominion War the civilian government got all uppity about war crimes or whatever (its just the Nova Cat...sheesh) do they took more control. The Khan at the time was the FRR elected prince (still or former idk) so he made that move more palletable for both sides.
The Freeminders want more openness in the clan caste system, especially as it relates to breeding and employment. The one DA book talks about it. Love is still taboo for warriors and I’m sure it’s still drilled in the lower castes but they have much more opportunity to fall in love and have the family they want rather than the one they are assigned to have. They see IS people doing this and they can’t. The clan side of the government (even after the FRR Portion taking over) doesn’t recognize these families so they redeploy the techs and scientists at will, not thinking of the family they love.
So my understanding in a tl;dr:
Ghost bears own a Prince from the FRR, that helps a lot.
Leave IS people alone. Kill the bad ones
Clan lower castes interacts more with IS people, becomes more like them.
Warriors on both sides become more like each other (stars with good clan vees).
Caste is for clan but it’s more open in some areas, IS people are sorta outside but can be generally grouped similarly if you go real broad with the strokes
Exile the people who make you mad but you can’t kill.
...
Profit (?)
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Also if you read the new Shrapnel issue (aka Issue One) there is an interesting story regarding the Ghost Bears and their IS conquests that sheds some light. Also Trial by Chaos is another good novel for such information.
Not all the Rasalhague population enjoyed it of course hence the Motstand Resistance group. They were a core of former FRR warriors and anti-clanners that were around for seventy odd years of low level skirmishing that are mentioned in several TRO’s in background fluff (The Rogue Bear and Constable come to mind).
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I have question to you Rasalhague Dominion players. How does they society work and if it's towards Clan society how do Rasalhague people handled switch to caste system?
The Ghost Bear Khan controls the Touman and the associated (military) Scientist and Technician Castes. The Rasalhague Prince controls civilian affairs. Although there are now many Rasalhagians in the Touman and the Prince must have served in the Touman, there’s been no wholesale conversion of the Rasalhagian society, economy, etc. to the Clan caste system.
The Khan and Prince answer to a Dominion Council, in which power is shared equally between Clan trueborns, Clan freeborns, and Rasalhagian civilians.
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That's interesting. I can think that most other clans wouldn't look that arrangement favorably.
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That's interesting. I can think that most other clans wouldn't look that arrangement favorably.
From what I understand no other Clan has really tried to incorporate both IS and Clans into one. From what I understand the Clans were in charge and although some IS were allowed into the Touman or a high ranking position they were far above the rest in ambition and intelligence. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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The Khan and Prince answer to a Dominion Council, in which power is shared equally between Clan trueborns, Clan freeborns, and Rasalhagian civilians.
I’ve been reading up on this a bit lately, and from my understanding of things the Freeborn representatives don’t sound like they necessarily have to have Clan origins; it’s a small distinction, but considering the number of native Rasalhaguers in the military, it probably reduces fullfledged Clan influence on the government by another notch.
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That's interesting. I can think that most other clans wouldn't look that arrangement favorably.
There’s a cannon passage somewhere that the Ravens look favorably on the Dominion model of their allies and are trying to emulate it. But the Ravens are not as far along or as successful as the Bears in integration. The Raven leadership and Outworlds government exist side-by-side in a confederacy, the Ravens mostly keep to their own enclaves, and the Outworlds military has been appended to the Raven touman’s chain of command but not reformed and integrated.
Other Clans have not really tried, or were not allowed, to integrate with Spheroid populations. As high-tech trading gypsies, the Foxes have no need and their interactions with Spheroids are mostly business deals. And the Nova Cats were stuck on reservations by their hosts in the Combine before their demise.
Outside of the Bears, Ravens, Foxes, and Nova Cats, we don’t have much insight on integration of Clan/Spheroid societies or adoption of the Clan caste system among Spheroids. Or we just have anecdotes. The Wolf Empire has allowed Spheroid volunteers into its touman to crew combat vehicles. The Wolves-in-Exile certainly fight shoulder-by-shoulder with their hosts on Arc-Royal, but we don’t know much more than that. The Falcons have notably had to design and produce new crowd control vehicles, which might indicate a push for Spheroids to adopt the Clan caste system that is being heavily resisted by the Spheroids. No real info on the Horses or Spirit Cats, AFAIK.
A couple exceptions. One, all Clans seem to take over the Spheroid military industry in their territory. Almost all production lines are upgraded with Clantech or converted to Clan designs. And two, the Republic had a number of Clan settlements. Some of these seemed to have been loyal to the Republic and contributed to its military. But others maintained loyalty to their parent Clans or went their own way when the Dark Age hit.
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Honestly it's not like the other clans are really in a position to do anything even if they don't like it. What are they gonna do, abjure us? ;)
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The Falcons have notably had to design and produce new crowd control vehicles, which might indicate a push for Spheroids to adopt the Clan caste system that is being heavily resisted by the Spheroids.
That does seem like very Jade Falcon thing to do so I can believe us Falcons to try to do that. I mean we are very traditional minded clan (except for that nutcase Malvina Hazen and her followers) so pushing towards spheroids to adapt into clan society is something that we would do.
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I’ve been reading up on this a bit lately, and from my understanding of things the Freeborn representatives don’t sound like they necessarily have to have Clan origins; it’s a small distinction, but considering the number of native Rasalhaguers in the military, it probably reduces fullfledged Clan influence on the government by another notch.
The most striking thing about the Dominion touman to me is the high number of commanders with obviously Rasalhagian (Scandinavian) last names in the unit descriptions. That seems to indicate that the Bear Khans are allowing, and Spheroid warriors are willingly joining, the trueborn/iron womb/sibko system. Or it indicates that the Bear Khans are allowing the Spheroid freeborns who join the touman to retain their last names. Interesting implications, either way.
I also thought that the creation of new bloodnames was an ilKhan/Grand Council decision. (Given the inter-Clan nature of the trueborn bloodname system, this makes sense.) If I’m right about that, then the Bear Khans may have struck out on their own by creating new bloodnames. The Bear Khans may not even be trialing/trading with the rest of the Council of Six for bloodheritages anymore.
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The most striking thing about the Dominion touman to me is the high number of commanders with obviously Rasalhagian (Scandinavian) last names in the unit descriptions. That seems to indicate that the Bear Khans are allowing, and Spheroid warriors are willingly joining, the trueborn/iron womb/sibko system. Or it indicates that the Bear Khans are allowing the Spheroid freeborns who join the touman to retain their last names. Interesting implications, either way.
I also thought that the creation of new bloodnames was an ilKhan/Grand Council decision. (Given the inter-Clan nature of the trueborn bloodname system, this makes sense.) If I’m right about that, then the Bear Khans may have struck out on their own by creating new bloodnames. The Bear Khans may not even be trialing/trading with the rest of the Council of Six for bloodheritages anymore.
I'm sure they're still trialing/trading. As to the last names I'm hoping they're new bloodname, then again it's the "rasalhague" side of the touman. Their galaxy's could be playing by different rules? Not any weirder than a galaxy going off on it's own.
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The Ghost Bear Khan controls the Touman and the associated (military) Scientist and Technician Castes. The Rasalhague Prince controls civilian affairs. Although there are now many Rasalhagians in the Touman and the Prince must have served in the Touman, there’s been no wholesale conversion of the Rasalhagian society, economy, etc. to the Clan caste system.
The Khan and Prince answer to a Dominion Council, in which power is shared equally between Clan trueborns, Clan freeborns, and Rasalhagian civilians.
I’ve been reading up on this a bit lately, and from my understanding of things the Freeborn representatives don’t sound like they necessarily have to have Clan origins; it’s a small distinction, but considering the number of native Rasalhaguers in the military, it probably reduces fullfledged Clan influence on the government by another notch.
if you really look at this governmental setup though, one can infer that the RasDom as a whole, while on the surface is an integration of IS and Clan, actually leans a lot closer to being Clan-controlled still
while the Prince and Khan share power, the fact that the Prince has to have served in the touman means they would be at least somewhat indoctrinated into the Clan way
the Council is split 3 ways, with 2 of those groups being Clan...yes, they may be Freeborn, but they will again, still be indoctrinated in the Clan way--even for the native Rasalhagians, to serve in the touman is to basically become a Clansman (again, also applies to the Prince)
and although the Khan and Prince answer to the council, with 2/3 of the council made up of warriors who answer to the Khan in return (as leader of the touman/warriors), you could say the Khan actually has a ton of power still over everyone else, including the Prince
so the native IS population has more say than before, but it still has the Clan side being in power really, with the Khan pretty much having the most power still, all hidden behind the ideas that the Clan and IS sides share the power now and that the Khan is no longer the leader of the entire faction
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So In every other clans listing of their clusters they include Solahma units but in all the Field Manuals they never are listed for Clan Ghost Bear.
Has there even been a given reason? Or do they keep their solahma units off the rolls?
In one of the newer field manuals the ghost bears have the same amount of clusters as both the wolf empire and jade falcons, which kinda bothered me. Ghost Bears have done nothing but wait for 40 years since the end of 2nd Dominion War. Then I realized they only have about half a dozen green clusters and they have no solhama clusters in their rolls.
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So In every other clans listing of their clusters they include Solahma units but in all the Field Manuals they never are listed for Clan Ghost Bear.
Has there even been a given reason? Or do they keep their solahma units off the rolls?
there has never been a given reason for the lack of Ghost Bear solomha units, but maybe it can be inferred why with the information we do have:
Field Manual Warden Clans states that all Clans have planetary militia units in addition to their listed forces, and these units contain the very bottom of the barrel troops
it also says that some Clans do not make a distinction between Provisional Garrison Clusters (PGCs) and Second-line units
in the specific write up for the Ghost Bears, it says their familial bonds tend to lead to entire units being transferred between commands, rather than individual warriors
with these bits of info in mind, we can make some guesses...
the Bears should have militia units (that are never listed, for any Clan) that will have solomha warriors in them
the Bears are one of (if not the only one) Clan that really does not differentiate between PGCs and Second Line units, so their solomha warriors are probably just mixed in there somewhere rather than making entire units just for them
that the Bears retain a sense of family among their warriors (enough that they prefer to transfer whole units rather than individual warriors between commands) also probably means that they look down on solomha warriors somewhat less than other Clans, and so don't feel the need to isolate them in their own units and reinforces the idea that their solomha warriors are probably just spread out among their Second Line and PGC forces (in fact, the novel Roar of Honor has a new Trinary formed to defend Toffen, and one of the transferees is a solomha warrior...and I'm pretty sure they are meant to be a Front Line unit, although it's not necessarily following any real unit structure as laid out in the Field Manuals, more for plot)
In one of the newer field manuals the ghost bears have the same amount of clusters as both the wolf empire and jade falcons, which kinda bothered me. Ghost Bears have done nothing but wait for 40 years since the end of 2nd Dominion War. Then I realized they only have about half a dozen green clusters and they have no solhama clusters in their rolls.
Field Manual 3145 does kind of tell us why this is:
the Falcons expanded their forces quickly by recruiting from civilians and failed warriors, pretty much using them as cannon fodder (in vehicles and as infantry)
the Wolves expanded quickly by creating entire units made up of recruited locals in vehicle formations
hence all the green units in these two Clans, with a large portion of these new units being vehicle and infantry formations
the Bears had their production hurt badly in the 2nd Combine-Dominion War and because they are more a merger of IS and Clan, they can't simply demand increased military output from civilian focused factories...and since something like 20% of the touman is FRR natives, the Trueborns of the warrior caste are loathe to recruit tons more Freeborns in an effort to not "dilute" the warrior caste any more than it is...so they are relying on just the usual sibkos to expand the touman (albeit larger sibkos than normal)--the positive side to this is that the Bears probably maintain the strongest Mech forces and aren't relying on vehicles and infantry to prop up their numbers
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To extend that further.
In 3130 a RD Cluster might be 2/3rds vehicle based much like everyone else. Remember Mechwarrior was very much about combined arms.
By 3145 most RD Clusters are nearly back up to full Mech unless they choose not to. (Some Artillery. Assault BA transports. Some specialist Clusters. Some Rasalhauge Clusters like to have a vehicle Trinary for extra mass CHH style.)
It takes time to build all those Mechs and Mechwarriors.
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We also have a top gun program that instructors retire from and are hired as consultants. Why go on a suicide mission when you can get paid for your experience?
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We also have a top gun program that instructors retire from and are hired as consultants. Why go on a suicide mission when you can get paid for your experience?
I would think that most warriors see it more as a form of immortality (being remembered) than being paid.
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I would think that most warriors see it more as a form of immortality (being remembered) than being paid.
That's what a bloodname is for!! But what if you need to have been in the military in order to join the government? The bears aren't the same as they were preinvasion. This is a clan who's warriors started using contractions to fit in with the rasalhagues. After almost 100 years? There's a good reason people like to joke the bears aren't clan anymore.
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So In every other clans listing of their clusters they include Solahma units
I don’t think that’s true. For example, the Bears’ historical enemies, the Horses, have no solahma clusters. Neither do the Adders or Cobras back in the Homeworlds. There are probably others.
but in all the Field Manuals they never are listed for Clan Ghost Bear.
Has there even been a given reason? Or do they keep their solahma units off the rolls?
I think the simplest explanation is that the Bears, Horses, and certain other Clans do not organize/segregate their solahma into separate clusters. These Clans have solahma like any other Clan, but they spread their solahma around their 2nd line and/or provisional garrison clusters.
In the case of the Bears, this is born out by a couple canon passages.
In Roar of Honor, Star Captain Angela Bekker tells an aging Elemental Warrior Dolf that “you are up for rotation to a solahma unit in one of our Periphery holdings.”
In ER: 3052, the 20th Polar Attack Cluster is disbanded and its “survivors were reassigned to solahma units and sent to fight bandits.”
Based on those passages, I would look for Bear 2nd line and provisional garrison clusters that are posted along or in the Periphery and/or that are described as engaged in bandit hunting. These clusters probably have a greater proportion of Bear solahma warriors. (I think the clusters of the Bears’ Kappa Galaxy are most associated with Periphery postings and bandit hunting duties, but there are probably others.)
Bear solahma warriors may be spread evenly through these Periphery/bandit hunting clusters or they may be segregated into their own solahma trinaries, binaries, and/or stars. (We don’t know.)
In one of the newer field manuals the ghost bears have the same amount of clusters as both the wolf empire and jade falcons, which kinda bothered me. Ghost Bears have done nothing but wait for 40 years since the end of 2nd Dominion War.
Out-of-universe, the size of BT militaries are driven more by the needs of plot and the limits of page count than anything else. In-universe, it’s probably like the real world, where threat assessments, tax revenues, recruitment/training/industrial limits, and plain old politics drive the size of militaries. Realistically, there’s more to it than recent battle losses.
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Not to mention all the resources it takes to build a leviathans x.x
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I don’t think that’s true. For example, the Bears’ historical enemies, the Horses, have no solahma clusters.
my thinking is that because of the heavy combined-arms nature of the Horses' touman, solomha warriors probably end up spread out among all the Clusters as infantry and vehicle units are so prevalent
Neither do the Adders
actually, the Adder's Gatekeeper Clusters are solomha units (FM:CC p.119)
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We also have a top gun program that instructors retire from and are hired as consultants. Why go on a suicide mission when you can get paid for your experience?
wait the RD has a merc program?
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If we are completely honest solohma units went out of fashion some time around Invading Clans when the authors realized the issues with writing phone books. Before the Field Manuals you had detail down to at least the Trinary level. Solohma now fills the same basic role of the IS militia units. Padding to help explain the insanely small published armies.
wait the RD has a merc program?
P163, FM:3144
While assignment to the Valkyrie Galaxy is a prestige position, the Galaxy’s defensive role limits combat opportunities. Valkyrie is thus more of a “finishing school” for ristars, or a comfortable final billet for elite pilots on their way to retirement. This combination of ambition and wisdom brings in combat experience from across the Dominion, mixing it before disseminating it out again. This places the Valkyrie Galaxy at the heart of Dominion aerospace, tactical and strategic doctrine. Also based on Alshain and Rasalhague, aerospace manufacturers Tseng Facility and GK&T are well aware of this and keep close ties with the Galaxy, often offering consulting positions to retiring warriors.
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Trothkin, I put forth a motion to bring back the minsk!!
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Trothkin, I put forth a motion to bring back the minsk!!
aff, it would make a good replacement for the summoner within our ranks once it has become an omni
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aff, it would make a good replacement for the summoner within our ranks once it has become an omni
well...I don't know about that, I mean the Summoner moves 5/8/5...the Minsk moves 3/5, they are designed for different roles
the Minsk is really more like a Warhammer IIC which AFAIK we still have access to...but if we ever needed a homegrown design to replace the 'Hammer, an upgraded Minsk could do the trick
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Next paycheck (aka the birthday one) gonna pick up all the Ebooks I’ve just missed and the PoD of the latest novels. Haven’t seen the Minsk’s stat blocks other than the original in Turning Points.
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well...I don't know about that, I mean the Summoner moves 5/8/5...the Minsk moves 3/5, they are designed for different roles
the Minsk is really more like a Warhammer IIC which AFAIK we still have access to...but if we ever needed a homegrown design to replace the 'Hammer, an upgraded Minsk could do the trick
Rule of cool big Z! We won't build it because we need it!! We're ghost bears!! We flaunt out material wealth and build things we don't need. We got flat screens,Leviathans and at least one album of Kerensky's Polka Christmas no one asked for but is a big hit in the Skye region.
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Actually, speaking of 'Mech production...was rereading the Gravedigger info, and it mentions that practically all the production lines at Odin were damaged/destroyed and to save the company from bankruptcy, they put out the Gravedigger...so did we rebuild the Karhu production line? You would think building one of the main heavy Omnis for the touman would keep the company afloat
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There is a modernised Minsk. 8)
It will make certain people giggle.
I didn't know that there was art yet.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Minsk
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There is a modernised Minsk. 8)
It will make certain people giggle.
I didn't know that there was art yet.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Minsk
I assume it will make the rest of us cackle?
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Hellbie is going to want one for his urban policing unit.
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Hoping the modernized version has HAGs.
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Hoping the modernized version has HAGs.
It's gonna have inner sphere plasma yo keep with the mix tech.
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It's gonna have inner sphere plasma yo keep with the mix tech.
Eugh. Hard Pass.
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It's gonna have inner sphere plasma yo keep with the mix tech.
IS Plasma is one of my favorite weapons for how versatile and cool it is, but man is it hard to justify 7t for the gun and ammo alone that has the same range as a clan medium laser.
On something that slow it can’t afford to have short ranged stuff like that, unless it’s a total rebuild I can’t see that happening.
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IS Plasma is one of my favorite weapons for how versatile and cool it is, but man is it hard to justify 7t for the gun and ammo alone that has the same range as a clan medium laser.
On something that slow it can’t afford to have short ranged stuff like that, unless it’s a total rebuild I can’t see that happening.
I was mostly ribbing restless as I knew what he would least like ^_^.
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ah but I like the Clan Plasma Cannons even less
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Just had a bit of a 'bloody hell!' moment.
I think we can agree that this.
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/2/27/Classicbattletechcomapanion8.png?timestamp=20160529053249)
In the politest possible way is bad art for the cannoical look at the Ghost Bear. And i've asked an artist friend of mine to look at doing it better. Whilst looking for references etc I got wondering about a 'banana for scale'. The obvious one is the Polar Bear which is a BIG animal.
Its about 5' tall at the shoulder, fully grown. A Ghost Bear is around the 7'5 mark at the shoulder. And if both animals were stood up on their hind legs, the Polar Bear would be 10' tall. A Ghost Bear is around 16' tall. Thats a whole ME taller!
(https://zooologist.com/ezoimgfmt/i1.wp.com/zooologist.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/How-big-is-a-polar-bear.jpg?w=675&ssl=1&ezimgfmt=ng:webp/ngcb1)
Thats a banana for scale for a human vs polar bear. or if you had a 10 foot tall human and a 16 foot human.
https://www.mrinitialman.com/OddsEnds/Sizes/sizes.html?base_ft=10&base_in=0&comp_ft=16&comp_in=0
A fully grown Ghost Bear, springing from Ambush and rearing up to strike would probably stagger a 20 ton Mech! And the Ghost Bear's go out hunting these things with spears! O_o
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Just had a bit of a 'bloody hell!' moment.
I think we can agree that this.
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/2/27/Classicbattletechcomapanion8.png?timestamp=20160529053249)
In the politest possible way is bad art for the cannoical look at the Ghost Bear. And i've asked an artist friend of mine to look at doing it better. Whilst looking for references etc I got wondering about a 'banana for scale'. The obvious one is the Polar Bear which is a BIG animal.
Its about 5' tall at the shoulder, fully grown. A Ghost Bear is around the 7'5 mark at the shoulder. And if both animals were stood up on their hind legs, the Polar Bear would be 10' tall. A Ghost Bear is around 16' tall. Thats a whole ME taller!
(https://zooologist.com/ezoimgfmt/i1.wp.com/zooologist.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/How-big-is-a-polar-bear.jpg?w=675&ssl=1&ezimgfmt=ng:webp/ngcb1)
Thats a banana for scale for a human vs polar bear. or if you had a 10 foot tall human and a 16 foot human.
https://www.mrinitialman.com/OddsEnds/Sizes/sizes.html?base_ft=10&base_in=0&comp_ft=16&comp_in=0
A fully grown Ghost Bear, springing from Ambush and rearing up to strike would probably stagger a 20 ton Mech! And the Ghost Bear's go out hunting these things with spears! O_o
At least there's no shame if you come back empty handed? There's a reason no poachers have come back after hunting them. The question is do they have 4 legs or 6?
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Four legs. Six would look...odd!
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Except their emblem has 6... and I believe they have that as well.
TT
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. The question is do they have 4 legs or 6?
Depends on how many hunters they dismember.
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Six Legs means 50% more bear hugs!
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Depends on how many hunters they dismember.
This :D
More seriously though, it has 4
From what I recall, the idea it might have 6 comes from a passage in one of the novels describing a Bear Khan wearing the pelt of a ghost bear saying something like "the middle legs tied around his waist like a belt" ...thus implying the bear had a middle set of legs...that and the logo having 6 legs, but nothing has ever been shown in cannon stating 6 legs really, with the few canon depictions showing 4 legs I believe
The novel passage isn't very clear what is meant, and the logo is most likely just a stylized starburst thing (or I think someone once said they thought of it as the claws whirling about in an attack)
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Minsk looks nice, somehow I'm expecting one of those gauss rifles to turn into a large pulse laser.
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A fully grown Ghost Bear, springing from Ambush and rearing up to strike would probably stagger a 20 ton Mech! And the Ghost Bear's go out hunting these things with spears! O_o
I have always enjoyed playing the native wildlife against mech forces, every since I got to be the native ants on a rim world that to groups of pirates were fighting on.
and on the Ghost Bear going out and hunting 1 with spears.. Is the Brave or Foolish?
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I have always enjoyed playing the native wildlife against mech forces, every since I got to be the native ants on a rim world that to groups of pirates were fighting on.
and on the Ghost Bear going out and hunting 1 with spears.. Is the Brave or Foolish?
I would say both in equal amounts
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I would say both in equal amounts
Could be worse, you could have to try and brand a man eating horse.
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Just had a bit of a 'bloody hell!' moment.
I think we can agree that this.
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/2/27/Classicbattletechcomapanion8.png?timestamp=20160529053249)
In the politest possible way is bad art for the cannoical look at the Ghost Bear.
I find it strange that Sarna has that little image of the Ghost Bear for the wiki page, and not the one from FM:Warden Clans
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do you guys think the Bears will get anything in the ilClan TRO/Recognition Guides?
and if so, what do you all want to see us get the most?
personally, I'm pretty pessimistic here, but I feel like the Bears are going to be sitting this one out...hibernation season hasn't come to an end yet...we probably won't be doing anything until after the ilClan is named and we get into the new storyline, so I'm guessing no new toys for us
BUT, if we do get something, I'd like to see a new Omni Medium to replace the Viper seeing as we don't make them anymore
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do you guys think the Bears will get anything in the ilClan TRO/Recognition Guides?
and if so, what do you all want to see us get the most?
personally, I'm pretty pessimistic here, but I feel like the Bears are going to be sitting this one out...hibernation season hasn't come to an end yet...we probably won't be doing anything until after the ilClan is named and we get into the new storyline, so I'm guessing no new toys for us
BUT, if we do get something, I'd like to see a new Omni Medium to replace the Viper seeing as we don't make them anymore
I’m sure we’ll get some garbage refit, that we also somehow share with WiE. And an executioner variant.
A good viper replacement would be nice, but I really want a new Executioner, a modern one without fixed JJ and a better distribution of armor. Or anything in the 95t range, clans only have half a dozen or so mechs in that weight.
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I’m sure we’ll get some garbage refit, that we also somehow share with WiE. And an executioner variant.
A good viper replacement would be nice, but I really want a new Executioner, a modern one without fixed JJ and a better distribution of armor. Or anything in the 95t range, clans only have half a dozen or so mechs in that weight.
Careful what you say about executioners around big Z. ;)
Id be down for a viper mkII.
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Fire Moth Mark III? A new Kingfisher variant or two? Definitely a Viper II.
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Yes.
Omnis seem to be getting more variants so there is that. The question is which Omnis.
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I know no one wants to hear this but.... I'd like to see us get a new light or medium omni asf.
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I know no one wants to hear this but.... I'd like to see us get a new light or medium omni asf.
I would love that news
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What are you hoping for that a Sulla doesn't do? The Wusun shows the problems with up armouring.
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What are you hoping for that a Sulla doesn't do? The Wusun shows the problems with up armouring.
I want something that looks cool and wastes C-bills. Also maybe a lam for the lol's.
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Fire Moth Mark III? A new Kingfisher variant or two? Definitely a Viper II.
Fire moth III, I hope not...lore-wise it's supposed to be our BA taxi, and we still build the original...I don't see us needing a new light Omni for that role
A new Kingfisher config is interesting, but we don't build it anymore, so I think I'd rather just see a new Assault Omni replacement for it
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I’m sure we’ll get some garbage refit, that we also somehow share with WiE. And an executioner variant.
A good viper replacement would be nice, but I really want a new Executioner, a modern one without fixed JJ and a better distribution of armor. Or anything in the 95t range, clans only have half a dozen or so mechs in that weight.
I always felt JJs should not be pod mountable, or more recently I've been thinking that maybe pod mounted jets should at least be more bulky, like 1 extra ton or 2 crits
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I want something that looks cool and wastes C-bills. Also maybe a lam for the lol's.
Hmmm, some kind of BA taxi LAM
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Fire moth III, I hope not...lore-wise it's supposed to be our BA taxi, and we still build the original...I don't see us needing a new light Omni for that role
A new Kingfisher config is interesting, but we don't build it anymore, so I think I'd rather just see a new Assault Omni replacement for it
I mean a Fire Moth III would be a ‘replacement’ for the Fire Moth II because ya know it was terrible (at least IMO).
I forgot we no longer produced it: so yes a replacement for it. Take some Gargoyle or Executioner configs and mod them to a Kingfisher chassis.
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I mean a Fire Moth III would be a ‘replacement’ for the Fire Moth II because ya know it was terrible (at least IMO).
I wouldn't call the Fire Moth II a replacement for the original though, kind of it's own thing
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They certainly need a Executioner/Kingfisher replacement. They only produce ancient Executioners as omnis in the DA. Although almost every assault in the MUL for them are 4/6, aside from a few.
A medium scout or new BA ferry would be ideal.
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They certainly need a Executioner/Kingfisher replacement. They only produce ancient Executioners as omnis in the DA. Although almost every assault in the MUL for them are 4/6, aside from a few.
A medium scout or new BA ferry would be ideal.
Speed and fire power is kinda our shtick. If we want a 100 ton death machine we go and take it.
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I must apologize in advance, this is going to be an incredibly stupid question that I think my sleep deprived brain actually knows the answer to: xp
I know that 'Mechs like the Kodiak, Supernova, and IIC versions are all second-line Battlemechs, however, during the Dark Ages and for the Rasalhague Dominion in general, would it be more likely to see Second-line Battlemechs used in a Front-Line Galaxy since they're not at full strength, and not all 100% Omnimechs?
The reason I ask this is that from the Kickstarter, most of my Clan 'Mechs are going to be for Clan Ghost Bear, and Rho Galaxy in the 3150 era is one of the Galaxies I'm going with. Since I've always had a soft spot for the Kodiak and the Supernova, I didn't know if they'd be too out of place in a Front-Llne Galaxy in the current era.
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don't know if you have FM:3145, but the unit listings show the Omni % of each unit
if you don't have it, a very quick rundown: very few Bear frontline units are at 100% Omni (just the Galaxy Commands really), so yes, they would have secondline 'Mechs in their ranks (as of 3145)
edit: you kinda answered your own question, they're not all 100% OmniMechs...so if they're not OmniMechs, then they would have to also have regular BattleMechs, no?
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don't know if you have FM:3145, but the unit listings show the Omni % of each unit
if you don't have it, a very quick rundown: very few Bear frontline units are at 100% Omni (just the Galaxy Commands really), so yes, they would have secondline 'Mechs in their ranks (as of 3145)
edit: you kinda answered your own question, they're not all 100% OmniMechs...so if they're not OmniMechs, then they would have to also have regular BattleMechs, no?
Yeah, that was what I was thinking. FM: 3145 is what I was going from, so, I have no idea why the obvious was tripping me up so badly when I knew the answer all along. Thank you for helping me clear that up. Sorry again for the stupid question.
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First up Clickytech made money from selling minis. Battletech makes money from selling text. So Mechwarrior Dark Age had a clear incentive to sell unique minis.
That translated over into Battletech because it had to match the same aesthetic.
That said, Clan Ghost Bear hasn't run pure Omni Clusters since Tukayyid. Combat losses prevented it. At one point in the 3060s there were even Introtech Mechs in front line Clusters.
Be smart with your Omnis. Prioritise Nova Stars because your BA will need transport.
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The Linebacker, yay or nay for the Bears? As someone mentioned in the MOTW article, it's kind of like an Executioner-lite in design...would you agree? Would you want to see the Bears use more Linebackers?
(I do have a feeling this topic has come up before)
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The Linebacker, yay or nay for the Bears? As someone mentioned in the MOTW article, it's kind of like an Executioner-lite in design...would you agree? Would you want to see the Bears use more Linebackers?
(I do have a feeling this topic has come up before)
I do not see why not, as long as we can build them....
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Nay. Pod space is too restricted for the mass. Compare the mobility to a Karhu or an Arcas.
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The Linebacker, yay or nay for the Bears?
Nay if the Bears can get Stormcrows from the Ravens or Mongrels from the Foxes.
Yea if not. The Bears could use an omni faster than the Mad Dog and its successors but heavier than the Viper and Fire Moth.
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The Linebacker, yay or nay for the Bears? As someone mentioned in the MOTW article, it's kind of like an Executioner-lite in design...would you agree? Would you want to see the Bears use more Linebackers?
(I do have a feeling this topic has come up before)
Ick no....no... trial of refusal no. Ugly ugly mech x.@
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Ick no....no... trial of refusal no. Ugly ugly mech x.@
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder my friend, I think the Linebacker looks good (especially the redesigns a la the new kickstarter art)
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder my friend, I think the Linebacker looks good (especially the redesigns a la the new kickstarter art)
Redesign looks better but it's still a linebacker ;). I'm pretty happy about our heavy mech production... but I'm a huge mad dog fan so there's some bias.
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Do we need it... not really. Is it a semi-decent Omni? Sure. Do we need more in our Cluster... probably not. It goes well in Wolf or Exile formations....but for us I’d skip it.
Needs a couple configs to drop those OS SRM’s though ...
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speaking of beauty, who else thinks the new Executioner art is spectacular
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I’m not gonna lie: most if not ALL of the new art is spectacular
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speaking of beauty, who else thinks the new Executioner art is spectacular
It's my favorite redesign so far. I look forward to using that with the new elementals.
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So, what did we get, and what have we still got.
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So, what did we get, and what have we still got.
I picked up the pdf/Pod before I headed to work, I'll read it while on lunch and report back!!
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So, what did we get, and what have we still got.
Sun Bear...predecessor to the Stooping Hawk (only 5 made, 1 remains in Goliath Scorpion hands maybe?)
Trothkin, I put forth a motion to bring back the minsk!!
Minsk 2 Foxx :thumbsup:
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So my initial thoughts are it's hilarious the bears gave the horses the bird and spread the schematics for a mech they designed to their enemies. Sun bear is cool but sadly only 5 were built. The minsk is awesome and I'm glad we're building them again, I'm just surprised it's 70 tons not 65 ;).
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So my initial thoughts are it's hilarious the bears gave the horses the bird and spread the schematics for a mech they designed to their enemies.
Glad I could make you laugh. And it was fun to kill one of your Khans :P
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Glad I could make you laugh. And it was fun to kill one of your Khans :P
Well losing khans is kind of our shtick ;).
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Well losing khans is kind of our shtick ;).
Everyone needs a hobby ;)
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Everyone needs a hobby ;)
We do have hobbys!! It's just for some reason we need to lose a Khan for our special ability gauge to fill!!
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We do have hobbys!! It's just for some reason we need to lose a Khan for our special ability gauge to fill!!
Which is the reason I don't get people keep killing Ghost Best Khan's. It never ends well for the who guy got the kill
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Which is the reason I don't get people keep killing Ghost Best Khan's. It never ends well for the who guy got the kill
Well it worked for Ulric at least!!
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Where was this in now?
Edit: I’ve also acquired enough mechs and Elementals between the KS and personal buying to form two ‘light’ clusters. Each has a Trinary, a Nova Binary, and a mixed Trinary (between mechs, vehicles, and Elementals), with a Command Nova for one of the clusters. Going to be updating my post in the Non-canon units soon to show you the organization.
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Where was this in now?
Where was what in? Me killing your Khan?
TRO Golden Century, Omni Corvis.
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Where was what in? Me killing your Khan?
TRO Golden Century, Omni Corvis.
Well technically, he was killed way back in FM:Warden Clans
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Well technically, he was killed way back in FM:Warden Clans
Maybe he's having a all you need is kill,moment? Poor guys been killed multiple times =/
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Where is the problem? We let someone pay for it multiple times! :-)
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Well technically, he was killed way back in FM:Warden Clans
Don't take m victories away from me :ticked: :ticked:
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Hey. I got him in TP:Tokasha too.
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Seems like he will just die for everyone :D
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Seems like he will just die for everyone :D
Typical clanner with loose death morals!!
So mech mortars, who has experience using them? It's a weapon system I'm not familiar using.
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Typical clanner with loose death morals!!
So mech mortars, who has experience using them? It's a weapon system I'm not familiar using.
I have not used them, but from reading about them, they are kinda of crappier LRMs, same weight profile and heat, but less overall damage...they are 2 damage per missile and immune to AMS though (somebody correct me if I'm wrong)
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The name of the game is alternate ammo. Anti-Personnel, Armor-Piercing, Flare, Smoke, and Semi-Guided.
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Typical clanner with loose death morals!!
So mech mortars, who has experience using them? It's a weapon system I'm not familiar using.
I have used them for years on vehicles as Light Arty.
nice to be immune to AMS
the Alt ammo is where they can really shine. AP for digging out Inf, Smoke for that quick wallof smoke between you and the bad guy.
But to be honest not a weapon that I see clan warriors using.
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I have used them for years on vehicles as Light Arty.
nice to be immune to AMS
the Alt ammo is where they can really shine. AP for digging out Inf, Smoke for that quick wallof smoke between you and the bad guy.
But to be honest not a weapon that I see clan warriors using.
well the Minsk 2 seems to be for use among the ex-Kungsarme troops
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Kungsarme hasn't existed for 50 years. Regimental traditions exist. Ex Kungsarme warriors not so much. And everyone is going through the Clan training systems.
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Kungsarme hasn't existed for 50 years. Regimental traditions exist. Ex Kungsarme warriors not so much. And everyone is going through the Clan training systems.
haven't existed for 50 years in the lore...far fewer in real life, so it's easy to keep thinking of them as ex-Kungsarme
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Love the Exe avatar, Zeruel.
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Love the Exe avatar, Zeruel.
thanks Steve :thumbsup:
I think I'll have to paint up a Star in these colours when the Kickstarter ships...already got the Bruin, new Exe will come with the KS...haven't thought about the rest yet, depends on what I get next I guess, I didn't sign up for any of the Star boxes, but I might change that for wave 2
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Seems like he will just die for everyone :D
"Even in Death, I still fight and die in glorious fury!"
Sorry, I really couldn't hold myself back here, the set up was just too perfect. :))
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So apparently we took over lambrecht.
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Where is that map from???
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I have an interest when and where on that.
The sarna entry is confused with it listed as DC but RD on the map.
Okay found it. Hammerhead entry.
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well I don't know who here has Shattered Fortress, but Lambrecht is shown as in the RD on that map already
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It is a 3150 acquisition.
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I found the map in Shattered Fortress: I was just curious on the colorized version.
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Is there something special about Lambrecht that benefits us?
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don't think so...anything of value seems to have been destroyed in the Amaris Civil War
apparently there is an asteroid ring, so maybe the Bears would do some asteroid mining as we have perfected that in the Golden Century
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According to Shattered Fortress after Atria and Ko rejoined the Republic after Operation Shofar, the Vegans clamored for the Bears to do something about it, since they joined the RD specifically to gain their protection. The Bears didn't want to start anything with the Republic since it looked like Atria and Ko just rejoined the Republic of their own will, but they needed to do something to ease the concerns of the Vegans. So they took Lambrecht and Dyev from the DC to serve as a buffer between the Vega Protectorate and the DC, and to show the Vegans that the Bears were taking their concerns seriously. The Vegans apparently weren't entirely satisfied by this solution, but that was before it seems Atria and Ko rejoined the Vegan Protectorate. Or at least according to the updated map in Shattered Fortress Atria and Ko are still shown as a part of the Vega Protectorate. It could be that after the Republic started falling apart and being torn to pieces by the Wolves, Falcons, and Capellans they quietly decided it was best to rejoin the Protectorate.
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So think we’ll get a mech this RecGuide?
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So think we’ll get a mech this RecGuide?
I won't hold my breath, I almost feel as if the little tidbit on us from the Hammerhead is all we'll get
I hope I'm wrong
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Hold your breath. Stay patient. Watch factory names.
https://youtu.be/KPlXXUhtVqc
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I like how the kodiak pilot decided to cover his giant mech in snow and wait. I would pay to hear him talking to his co about his plan.
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looking through the new ilClan RecGuide, I took note of the entry in the Mad IIC where it says something about the Falcons making it, and the Bears making the Phoenix versions...so I took a look at the MUL, and it shows some interesting things
there are currently 10 variants of Mad IIC (2 are new to RecGuide 6), 8 of which are still around into the Dark Ages (6 according to the MUL, and the new RecGuide says 2 new ones by the Falcons)
so, as of the Dark Ages, the factions that have access to the Mad IIC are:
Mad IIC - Falcon, Bear
IIC 2 - Falcon, Bear
IIC 3 - Falcon, Bear
IIC 6 - Falcon, Wolf
IIC 7 - Bear
IIC 8 - Falcon, Bear
IIC 9 - new in RecGuide 6, presumably Falcon only for now
IIC 10 - new in RecGuide 6, presumably Falcon only for now
in their write-ups, the IIC 2 & 3 are Adder creations, 6 by the Falcons, 7 the Bears, according to the RecGuides 8 and 9 are ancient variants reintroduced by the Falcons, and 10 is new by the Falcons (and of course the original is anyone's guess, created pre-Invasion)
so my question is, how do the Bears access to what they do?
we know the Bears and Falcons don't fight very often, where the Wolves likely have access to the 6 from lots of isorla
and why do the Falcons and Bears both still have access to the 2 and 3?
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They pulled a head hunting mission on alshain for our sakhan, pretty sure we will be fighting soon.
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They pulled a head hunting mission on alshain for our sakhan, pretty sure we will be fighting soon.
fighting "soon", but the MUL already shows the Bears having these Mechs
my first thought was, because we can make one Mad IIC, does that mean we can make the other variants? but that can't be right, or every faction that makes one Mech variant would be able to make the others, exceptions for tech availability
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1 is ancient and everywhere. Unseen.
2 and 3 are left overs from fighting Adders. Reseen
3 and 7 are GK&T. Reseen
5 and 6 should be Falcon. Unseen? What was the art in Milspec?
8 is ancient video game so left overs should be available or modified from 1s. Unseen
What does the MUL say?
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What does the MUL say?
as of the Dark Ages, the factions that have access to the Mad IIC are:
Mad IIC - Falcon, Bear
IIC 2 - Falcon, Bear
IIC 3 - Falcon, Bear
IIC 6 - Falcon, Wolf
IIC 7 - Bear
IIC 8 - Falcon, Bear
IIC 9 - new in RecGuide 6, presumably Falcon only for now
IIC 10 - new in RecGuide 6, presumably Falcon only for now
in their write-ups, the IIC 2 & 3 are Adder creations, 6 by the Falcons, 7 the Bears, according to the RecGuides 8 and 9 are ancient variants reintroduced by the Falcons, and 10 is new by the Falcons (and of course the original is anyone's guess, created pre-Invasion)
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Furthermore...
1 is ancient and everywhere. Unseen.
Not everywhere, according to the MUL, only Bears and Falcons
2 and 3 are left overs from fighting Adders. Reseen
I don't recall the Bears fighting the Adders too much, but maybe I'm just forgetting
3 and 7 are GK&T. Reseen
I think you mean 4 and 7, well it seems the 4 is no longer produced by the Dark Ages
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It says bears can produce their own variant and the Phoenix models, would the 9 be considered a Phoenix model, like the 8 (I think that’s right)?
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Since 9 and 10 were just introduced in RecGuide 6, with the new (updated old) art, I would say it's not a Phoenix model
Again, my question is though, since when can the Bears produce all the Phoenix models?
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Since 9 and 10 were just introduced in RecGuide 6, with the new (updated old) art, I would say it's not a Phoenix model
Again, my question is though, since when can the Bears produce all the Phoenix models?
Maybe I misinterpreted what it says, “... joining the Rasalhague Dominion’s “Phoenix” models as the formidable core of many Clan assault formations.”
It’s at the very bottom of the first Paragraph in the write up.
Maybe it just means the 4 and 7 not every Phoenix model? The plural ‘model’ threw me.
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Maybe I misinterpreted what it says, “... joining the Rasalhague Dominion’s “Phoenix” models as the formidable core of many Clan assault formations.”
Maybe it just means the 4 and 7 not every Phoenix model? The plural ‘model’ threw me.
Ok, so going back to my initial post, according to the MUL, the Bears have access to every Mad IIC model except the 6 (the 4 and 5 are not listed as available to anyone by the Dark Ages, so this probably means no they are no longer produced and none survive, or survive in such small quantities so as to be irrelevant)
The Bears had access to the original Mad IIC along with all the other Clans, but by the Dark Ages, only the Falcons and Bears still have it (producing? Just ancient relics?)
As for the remaining variants, the Bears only ever were said to produce the 4 and 7, and the rest being Adder or Falcon in origin...
I don't recall any major Trials between the Bears and Adders or Falcons that they would gain enough Mad IIC 2s, 3s and 8s to be a primary user of them in the Dark Ages
And as pointed out, RecGuide 6 says the Bears can produce the Phoenix models...so since when? How? Trade with the Falcons and Adders?
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Maybe they bought the design specs from the Foxes?
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Maybe they bought the design specs from the Foxes?
Still need a place to build it.
There are a couple options of where,
New Oslo has a Bergan factory as well as old Wolf/HH facilities (although it could have disappeared since it was acquired in Ronin Wars), Throndheim has a vehicle factory that we might have kept and upgraded or expanded when the local Sea Foxes left to go screw off with the Davions, rebuilt facilities on Giotto or Thule (Thule was supposed to have a massive complex before it was destroyed), or an expansion of the lines on Satalice (the factory originally had 3 lines, so one was not in use).
The last decent factory list Clans have had was in 3085, so 70 years is a long time for things to change.
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Maybe they bought the design specs from the Foxes?
the Foxes don't have access to the design, not according to the MUL anyway
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I think most clans have the specs to create old IIC model mechs, the same way that everybody was making all of those old school mechs during the Jihad. Periphery nations were like, "Why don't we make Wolverines?"
All those old Star League mechs don't need to be reverse engineered the way a proprietary mech might need to be. Honestly, they're probably the type of mechs the people who design mechs are educated on in training.
That being said, if someone makes it, you can typically get it from the Sea Foxes. We're good at trading.
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I was going to say the MUL should say the Foxes have access to the design if it's something they can trade, but then I thought about how the Bears must still be able to produce the Mad IIC 4 (as an example) if they really want to, they just don't, and yet the Mad IIC 4 is not on any faction list in the Dark Ages...
so what does this mean really? does the MUL only reflect what 'Mechs certain factions actually use in that time frame, and not necessarily what they have the ability to produce should they desire?
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so what does this mean really? does the MUL only reflect what 'Mechs certain factions actually use in that time frame, and not necessarily what they have the ability to produce should they desire?
Was the MUL ever meant to depict current production?
Afaik it is more or less an inventory summary. Mechs listed for us can be used by us because we have them in sufficient numbers, from what sources doesn't seem relevant.
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Was the MUL ever meant to depict current production?
Afaik it is more or less an inventory summary. Mechs listed for us can be used by us because we have them in sufficient numbers, from what sources doesn't seem relevant.
As far as I can tell that’s correct. It’s meant for a more solid view (than RATs certainly) of what a faction can field in a given time with some regularity. I do wish it had a option or even a marking denoting a home grown variant tho.
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As far as I can tell that’s correct. It’s meant for a more solid view (than RATs certainly) of what a faction can field in a given time with some regularity. I do wish it had a option or even a marking denoting a home grown variant tho.
That would be a useful addition to the MUL.
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That would be a useful addition to the MUL.
I almost purely mess around with the mobile version so I could never tell what the Star next to the name meant. I thought it was home produced version, cause when I looked at the Karhu it was always there. Then I saw it was just for TRO:3085, which is really old now. Probably an artifact left over from when that was the newest thing.
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I almost purely mess around with the mobile version so I could never tell what the Star next to the name meant. I thought it was home produced version, cause when I looked at the Karhu it was always there. Then I saw it was just for TRO:3085, which is really old now. Probably an artifact left over from when that was the newest thing.
I think its there to show the primary model, the others introduced in the same TRO don't have it.
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Who said you can't make a 4? After all, it's a variant that as long as the plans are still readable, IE: still in the computer, you should be able to make it. Sure it a one off, but Star Colonel Bob is ristar and he got permission to command it.
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Been a while since I posted, but still love the Ghost Bears.
I just received my Wave 1 shipment on Sunday and opened up all my salvage packs. Much to my delight, I got 3 Executioners. As I like to say, you can never have enough Executioners.
Now I can equip the Ghost Bear Supernova I'm building with an entire star of Executioners. I am a happy man today. I might just go ahead and move the Kodiak and Kingfisher into the Bravo Nova now, joining 2x Mad Dog and a Stormcrow.
Charlie Nova is now 2 Viper, 2 Fire Moth, and a Mist Lynx. Though, I admit, it is tempted to reopen the PM and get a 3rd Fire Moth. I love those little guys.
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My clan take away from the first wave!
So for me I came away with:
Ice Ferret: x3
Viper: x3
Mad dog: x3
Hellbringer: x3
Gargoyle: x4
Nova: x4
Timberwolf: x3
Summoner: x2
Direwolf: x2
Koshi: x1
Stormcrow: x1
Shadowcat: x1
Executioner: x2
Adder: x2
Mongrel: x2
Now to decide how I want to group them!!
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Salvage pile? Isola bait?
:)
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I’ll post mine later today but I know I have 35 more Elementals to add :)
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I’ll post mine later today but I know I have 35 more Elementals to add :)
Stars or points? Either way that's a lot of toad!! I plan on buying some elementals either through flgs or second wave.
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@Foxx - Are any of those Timberwolves Legendary?
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Stars or points? Either way that's a lot of toad!! I plan on buying some elementals either through flgs or second wave.
35x total One Star. Two Points. About to open the rest :D
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@Foxx - Are any of those Timberwolves Legendary?
Just one. But aren't all ghost bear Timberwolves legendary?;)
35x total One Star. Two Points. About to open the rest :D
I was about to be excited for the rebirth of Zeta galaxy.
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Just one. But aren't all ghost bear Timberwolves legendary?;)
I was about to be excited for the rebirth of Zeta galaxy.
I mean..... I have three full Trinaries now including an Undine and Rogue Bear Star....
My salvage included a Nova, Mist Lynx, and Adder to pair along with my Invasion box (Executioner, Timber Wolf, Nova, Adder, and Grendel).
I also ordered (IIRC) a Clan Fire Star and Heavy Battle Star.
All in total my Ghost Bear force will comprise of 17 Stars of Mechs, one of Vehicles, and 9 of Battle Armor split into two Clusters with Command Stars/Novas. Assembling, Basing, and Painting are actually currently in progress.
And just in case that isn’t enough I’ve got a Wolverine Trinary and an Inner Sphere Regiment (bolstered with four new UrbanMechs ;) )
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May you unit, ( Regiment ) be all Liao!
TT
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May you unit, ( Regiment ) be all Liao!
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Full Merc: I have various units that could function as independent House Companies (IE the Fourth Ed. Three Dragon, Three QuickDraw, Three Panther, Three Jenner Company lol)
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May you unit, ( Regiment ) be all Liao!
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It was on the day star captain Rutger got his star of hueys that he finally understood what it ment to let your inner liao free.
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It was on the day star captain Rutger got his star of hueys that he finally understood what it ment to let your inner liao free.
At some or another I’ll have to field some salvage from to local Hell Horses in the form of Athena’s, Mars’s, and Huey’s. That way I’ll have two Vehicle Stars so my other fast Elemental Carrier Hovertank’s have some friends.
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Two Points of Epona, one of Hep, and one each of Mars and Huey. Awesome sauce downwind! BA and Fast Recon for taste. Don't forget the fun, some Jump Infantry!
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At some or another I’ll have to field some salvage from to local Hell Horses in the form of Athena’s, Mars’s, and Huey’s. That way I’ll have two Vehicle Stars so my other fast Elemental Carrier Hovertank’s have some friends.
i was running a 3145 campaign where clan wolf was the opfor. there was a mission where they had to hit a supply depot that was "only" being guarded by a vehicle star... of four oros, four athenas and a pair of hachiman. always do recon, kids!
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Yikes!
Sandpaper armor much?
I've had to run a Dragoon unit once, 4 Bandit A's and 8 Squads of Standard IS BA! Yeah... OpFor hated that!
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I have Four Epona’s, Two Svantovit’s, Two Tyr’s, and Two SM1’s for my first Star (SM1’s and Tyr’s forthcoming lol) Don’t need any Jump Infantry because like I said I’ve got nearly a Cluster of Elementals lol. Plus Recon’s gonna be covered by my two Recon Nova’s of combined Fire Moths and Vipers.
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Jump and Fast Recon allows for defense pins to be set up. Like in, I have broken into Squads and now force you to consider your movement.
BA kinda don't do that... Squads of PBI vs a single battle armor point... who should win? Mostly BA, but it's a numbers game, so anyone can... as long as you hit!
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Glances at my 4 Hueys, 6 Donars, 10 Golems, and 15 Kobolds... Guess the variants >:D
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*Cackles at the thought of Kobold iic's* Unleash the swarm!!!
Golem support variant?
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(HAG), (TAG), (Support), and IIC. Hueys need their eyes to see.
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Hope two of those Donars are BA variants. Hate to see you wasting possible transport options. I wonder why there's. Our Boomerang-C.
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https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Donar
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Anhur
BA variant?
Golems can keep up with Hueys on foot. Kobold IICs can keep up with heavy Mechs.
Ol' Kael Pershaw tooled around Tukayyid in some kind of recon aircraft so something like a Boomerang must exist.
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Cargo netting = BA variant.
But any Mag Clamped BA can be used.
And I'm pretty sure that or an Recon light aero.
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My only real frustration with the current fiction is that I don't understand why some factions are doing nothing...
Like, we've discussed on the Clan Sea Fox channel that becoming Ilclan puts a target on your back and that we'd rather just support/suffocate the victor. But it would also be nice to be able to kick some teeth in as a Clan Sea Fox player...
But I kind of feel worse for the Bears. I can at least sort of kick Regulan Teeth in after Shattered Fortress... but the Ghost Bears are doing nothing.
They got some good Jihad material and two dominion wars so I guess they've got stuff to do. But it just feels odd that they are as strong as they are and not involved.
(It doesn't feel odd when Snow Ravens do nothing though.)
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My only real frustration with the current fiction is that I don't understand why some factions are doing nothing...
Like, we've discussed on the Clan Sea Fox channel that becoming Ilclan puts a target on your back and that we'd rather just support/suffocate the victor. But it would also be nice to be able to kick some teeth in as a Clan Sea Fox player...
But I kind of feel worse for the Bears. I can at least sort of kick Regulan Teeth in after Shattered Fortress... but the Ghost Bears are doing nothing.
They got some good Jihad material and two dominion wars so I guess they've got stuff to do. But it just feels odd that they are as strong as they are and not involved.
(It doesn't feel odd when Snow Ravens do nothing though.)
I think it has more to do with the internal threats (eg Freeminders) that are distracting the Bears not to mention absorbing the Vegan Protectorate (who knows how big it was). Not to mention unlike the Wolves and the Falcons they seem to have a more vested interest in keeping their territory.
Right now the writers are concentrating on the core when they are done hopefully we will hear more about the other clans because like you I want to know what is going on in that corner of the galaxy.
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there was a podcast awhile back where they were talking about how players will be busy for years with all the fighting that happens after Ilclan. Children of Kerensky also kind of hints at a lot of fighting to be done.
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My only real frustration with the current fiction is that I don't understand why some factions are doing nothing...
Like, we've discussed on the Clan Sea Fox channel that becoming Ilclan puts a target on your back and that we'd rather just support/suffocate the victor. But it would also be nice to be able to kick some teeth in as a Clan Sea Fox player...
But I kind of feel worse for the Bears. I can at least sort of kick Regulan Teeth in after Shattered Fortress... but the Ghost Bears are doing nothing.
They got some good Jihad material and two dominion wars so I guess they've got stuff to do. But it just feels odd that they are as strong as they are and not involved.
(It doesn't feel odd when Snow Ravens do nothing though.)
It would be good to see us doing something though, even if its just sparing with the Suns and Snakes.
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Anyone who got the kickstarter (ghost bear) dice, any issues so far? I'll be checking mine in an hour or so when I get home
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Anyone who got the kickstarter (ghost bear) dice, any issues so far? I'll be checking mine in an hour or so when I get home
One of my dice is slightly smaller and more rounded than another. But the emblem and pips all look good.
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hmm, one of mine is slightly smaller than the other, and the faction symbols are slightly off-centre on both, but otherwise everything looks fine
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To me the dice seem fine: I haven’t rolled them in combat but my Assault Star is due to fight some Inner Sphere Mercenaries later this week so I’ll see.
Regarding the IlClan... honestly I’d rather sleep thru the next couple of years in game. Let the Wolves and the Falcons tear sort each other and the Republic. With any luck Malvina will die, Alaric or Stone will fight off the Cappies, Julian and Trillian will stabilize their realms, and Marko will finish its expansion/ convergence. Meanwhile we Bears are sitting fine in our good old Dominion living in peace with our absorbed brethren. No one needs to poke the Bear... why would anyone really want to at this stage of the game? And if they do... well it’s good to friends with the Ravens and our local Sea Fox enclaves ... and remember what happened to the Wobblies, Dracs, and Nova Cats that wanted to prod us a bit.
Anyways... back to sleeping ;)
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So after tallying my KS rewards (for Wave One and Wave Two) I will own the following Clan Units
A Clan Command Nova (Five OmniMechs, 25x Rogue Bear’s)
Two Supernova Trinaries (Fifteen OmniMechs, 75x Elementals each)
Two OmniMech Trinaries
One Mixed Mech Trinary
One Mixed Trinary (Five OmniMechs, Five Regular Clan Mechs, One Vehicle Nova (Ten Vehicles, 25x Undine))
And One Elemental Trinary.....
I’ve got a Trinary coming from Wave Two, and I provable have another Star or two of Inner Sphere Mechs that I could use to add on (including a Rifleman IIC and four UrbanMechs). But currently evenly divided into two Clusters with a Command Star in the First and the extra Elemental Trinary in the Second.
Turns out I have acquired as part of my unit six Timber Wolves, Novas, Executioners, and Mad Dogs; Five Fire Moths and Vipers; and Four Kodiak’s. Intentionally or unintentionally I have no clue lol
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So once again nothing for us in the Rec Guide. Even all the nobody clans have had more than us. This might be the end of our wonderful Dominion.
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May I suggest starting a list. Note the builder and who has access. Eg the CSF built Thresher II is mostly used by CW. Keep an eye on variants as they can be sneaky.
May I suggest starting a new thread. Commiserating others success is a game all Clans can play.
Finally, if nothing else, TRO3050 has the Executioner in it and we know we build those.
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Besides we are clan ghost bear. Nice mech factory you got there.....be a shame if something happened to it,quiaff?
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You can have our sloppy leftovers you mangy cub!
- MW Pi, CHH
TT
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So once again nothing for us in the Rec Guide. Even all the nobody clans have had more than us. This might be the end of our wonderful Dominion.
When the MUL settles, the Bears will probably have access to the Warcrow, given their relations with the Ravens, and whatever designs the Foxes are trading in RG7.
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There's a couple of things to consider. First off, there's 22 Rec Guide volumes, and at 7 we're only 1/3rd of the way through the list. There's plenty of room left for new Bear 'Mechs. Also, take a look through TRO 3050 and you can see which Omnis are likely to be Bear Omnis. On a potentially related note, I enjoyed making some of the Omni configs for the Fire Moth, whenever that shows up.
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So once again nothing for us in the Rec Guide. Even all the nobody clans have had more than us. This might be the end of our wonderful Dominion.
Well you are certain to be getting the Stormcrow from us and probably the War Crow and i will be very surprised if we are both not getting the Incubus and Warhammer C 3 from our mutual friends the Sea Foxes.
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On a potentially related note, I enjoyed making some of the Omni configs for the Fire Moth, whenever that shows up.
Both the Firemoth factories got Wobbied. So I guess I am saying the Firemoth doesn't have to show up in the Dominion. Or am I? :D
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It maybe that TPTB wanted to release Children of Kerensky before they debuted any brand new Ghost Bear Mechs, so that there would be extra context when they mention Mechs designed by The Warbear. Also, none of the Ghost Bear classics have been featured, yet. Once the Mad Dog, Executioner, Viper, and Fire Moth show up the Ghost Bears will likely be 4th among the Clans featured in the RecGuides, after the Wolves, Falcons, and Sea Foxes. Also, the Recguides, even if they haven't featured any new GB Mechs or configs, have made it clear that the Dominion is still building Mechs, and buying Mechs from the Foxes and Ravens.
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Both the Firemoth factories got Wobbied. So I guess I am saying the Firemoth doesn't have to show up in the Dominion. Or am I? :D
A little nuclear fallout never stopped a real clan from sending workers in!
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As much as I would love to see us rebuilding the Fire Moth lines, I think I'd rather just see something new
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As much as I would love to see us rebuilding the Fire Moth lines, I think I'd rather just see something new
Rebuild the factories and add more lines than before! It might stop my complaining for a while. :D
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As much as I would love to see us rebuilding the Fire Moth lines, I think I'd rather just see something new
The nature of the Kickstarter and supporting it means basically everything in the KS as a mini will be in production in some form. If it's got to go to someone, why not do both, get the Fire Moth and something new.
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The nature of the Kickstarter and supporting it means basically everything in the KS as a mini will be in production in some form. If it's got to go to someone, why not do both, get the Fire Moth and something new.
I don't dare to hope for both XD
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I don't dare to hope for both XD
Well I can't say for sure because I only know what I've written and I think only the stuff through Volume 10 or 11 has been assigned & written.
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Gonna need some new battle armor to go with them fire moths. ;)
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Gonna need some new battle armor to go with them fire moths. ;)
Not necessarily with a few of the new configurations. But I do agree in general, and we have new BA mentioned in Children of Kerensky. The way I understand it the Rec Guides are going to be 'Mech-only, so where new BA would show up is something I just don't know.
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Not necessarily with a few of the new configurations. But I do agree in general, and we have new BA mentioned in Children of Kerensky. The way I understand it the Rec Guides are going to be 'Mech-only, so where new BA would show up is something I just don't know.
I'm just throwing spaghetti at the wall for throwing sake. We don't really need a new ba, I'm just greedy.
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What do you want in a new BA? While the tech isn't completely mined out yet, it is close to the bottom.
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After getting my hands on Clan Invasion boxed set (one LGS in here had it) I chose to switch to Ghost Bears to avoid whole ilClan silliness since so far Ghost Bears aren't really involved with that.
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After getting my hands on Clan Invasion boxed set (one LGS in here had it) I chose to switch to Ghost Bears to avoid whole ilClan silliness since so far Ghost Bears aren't really involved with that.
That ilClan silliness might the only action to get in on for a while...
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After getting my hands on Clan Invasion boxed set (one LGS in here had it) I chose to switch to Ghost Bears to avoid whole ilClan silliness since so far Ghost Bears aren't really involved with that.
The good news is your combine minis will still get played with!
What do you want in a new BA? While the tech isn't completely mined out yet, it is close to the bottom.
Honestly I'd rather have the ability to produce Ogre's than come up with a new suit.
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That ilClan silliness might the only action to get in on for a while...
Who says that the Ghost Bears won’t be involved at the appointed hour. Isn’t their totem known for coming out of nowhere.
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Honestly I'd rather have the ability to produce Ogre's than come up with a new suit.
I would rather have the centaur battle armor, it would add much more..
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Upgraded Rogue Bear with AP Gauss, a Quad Assault Suit, and a fast boy to keep up with the Horses Quad whose name I forget at this moment.
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I would like a golem if was good.
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The good news is your combine minis will still get played with!
Yes, against each other even. After all GB and DC have clashed time to time even during Operation Revival. That short story that was included with Clan Invasion boxed set was about one of those times.
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Honestly I'd rather have the ability to produce Ogre's than come up with a new suit.
There is the Reactive Armor Rogue Bear. Sure 4 shots isn't 13, but who uses 13 rounds and it has better armor and generates a jumping to-hit modifier.
I would like a golem if was good.
Try Golems in the city, especially with alternate Bear Hunter rules.
Alternatively try Golem Support.
Upgraded Rogue Bear with AP Gauss, a Quad Assault Suit, and a fast boy to keep up with the Horses Quad whose name I forget at this moment.
SRMs tend to be equal to APGRs if you have enough ammo. Enough depends upon armor.
A quad is not going to happen.
You can only keep up with a Buraq by going quad or a very very light VTOL. Whether you really need to keep up with a BA that can only crack 70kmh is a different question. Like doesn't have to fight like.
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I've ran out of rounds with my ogres before ;D, Ogres are FUN to play with defensively.
I would like a golem if was good.
I'll echo playing them in a defense map, especially if other battle armor are involved. You laugh at the bear hunters range until it's time to dislodge them. Or your opponent oops and takes the plasma variant of the blackwolf.
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I tend to be aggressive with my BA and my (Clan) opponent is a Hell Horse player who uses a real Combined Arms Star including Infantry. Usually I take a point or two of APGR Elementals but I’d love to use the Rogue Bears more.... so that’s a personal wish.
The Quad Assault Suit: I mean I want a Kodiak equivalent in BA form because it would be awesome.
As for the Buraq (thanks) I want to out Horde the Horses and Falcons and show them real swarm clusters. Duplicate their designs and make them better seems like a good way to do it. Plus a fast scout BA (doesn’t have to be a quad but IDK how to design BA) would be awesome paired with our normal BA carriers.
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It is important to remember that like doesn't have to fight like.
For example scout BA are a poor option outside of cities because they are so slow. But! The Dominion has a very solid one in the form of the Constable, or alternatively a Kobold or Kobold IIC. And they have hands where Buraq don't.
If you want a Dominion swarm Cluster look up yhe Third Drakøn's semi humorous Viking Doctrine.
Rogue Bears are roughly equal to Elementals. It mostly depends upon how much you can pin your enemy down. If there are Infantry in play you have a good chance. But don't send them against the crunchies. Send your BA after the tanks. Those SRMs are made for immobilising, and once they can't move the MGs will get kills.
Rogue Bear [Upgrade] BV396
Elemental [APGR] BV428
If the Bears do the job for less...
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I'm just throwing spaghetti at the wall for throwing sake. We don't really need a new ba, I'm just greedy.
Your just sad that there isn't five mini lions that transform to make a bigger bot!
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so new RecGuide has the Fire Moth and Viper in it
both are listed as being built at Dominion Facility Kappa-5 on Thule (the Viper line there is new info), which was destroyed in the Jihad..so rebuilt? and we build the Viper again?? it's not fully clear, but I would assume they wouldn't put out of date info
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so new RecGuide has the Fire Moth and Viper in it
both are listed as being built at Dominion Facility Kappa-5 on Thule (the Viper line there is new info), which was destroyed in the Jihad..so rebuilt? and we build the Viper again?? it's not fully clear, but I would assume they wouldn't put out of date info
One of the other books (FM:3085 or whatever the post jihad production lines books was, maybe updates) said they had plans to make Thule a main plant, further removed from anyone who could attack it. I would bet they did rebuild it, along with the other two plants there.
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So we have steady supply of Vipers if needed. I haven't really though it as typical Ghost Bear mech so I have been wrong in that.
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what do you guys think is going on with those R variants?
The dominion shouldn’t have any need to make low tech pod mounts, and 5>4 so I don’t know why regular c3. Maybe they are Republican variants, but the lore in the Viper pilot seems to suggest (at least the viper R) is native to the dominion.
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Umm... little r or big R.
Cause I can see Republic with little r. Like how the 3050+ IS omni's got that R designation from Clantech.
I wonder if GB still make due with future (C) models anymore?
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(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSFAz5uDhZ9L4jGAkwMOAOxZMLya0Hf1LTEwg&usqp=CAU)
https://youtu.be/9vWNauaZAgg
(https://youtu.be/9vWNauaZAgg)
The factories are rebuilt (Firemoth) or finally finished (Viper). No confirmed date yet. Watch the MUL.
R usually designates an Omni variant using mixed tech. In this case these are old widespread OmniMechs with a general Inner Sphere presence.
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Which is what I said. Little r, should be Republic while big R are clanified IS Omni models.
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it is capital R, it is mixed tech
and looks to be so only because it has a Bloodhound AP
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it is capital R, it is mixed tech
and looks to be so only because it has a Bloodhound AP
That one also has a regular medium laser. Which bother the hell out of me.
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That one also has a regular medium laser. Which bother the hell out of me.
Hmm, are you sure about that? (at work right now, can't check myself)...but I swear everything other than the Bloodhound said Clan-tech
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Hmm, are you sure about that? (at work right now, can't check myself)...but I swear everything other than the Bloodhound said Clan-tech
Got the Viper mixed up with the Fire Moth. The Viper R is all clan but the Probe. Fire Moth is the one with a IS medium and the C3.
The Viper R seems good, but an odd choice for the Narc and light tag. I’d rather have the K for any real scouting.
The Fire Moth R just seems all over the place and it doesn’t make sense. I am interested to see where it ends up in the MUL, but I would be very disappointed to see the Ghost Bears trying to prop up the Republic, or even worse making (even more) god awful decisions about how to produce mechs.
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The Viper R suffered from the tech limitations of the Rec Guides.
The Firemoth R is IS general.
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The Viper R suffered from the tech limitations of the Rec Guides.
The Firemoth R is IS general.
I suppose the fire moth makes sense. Easy enough to salvage cause it has so little armor.
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So looking to eventually include another Vehicle Star in my Clusters (and eventual Galaxy: I know I’m going to build one it’s only going to be a matter of time) and now I’m looking at the big boys.
Athena, Oro, Mars, and Huey probably a pair of each.
Any other suggestions I’m missing?
For reference my first Vehicle Star is Four Epona’s, Two Tyr’s, Two Svantovit’s, and Two SM1’s. They carry around my 25x Undine (Upgraded).
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Axel II
TT
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Axel II
Seconding the Axel IIC. Or the Axel IIC (XL), which is nearly identical but can keep up with Clan heavy cav.
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So looking to eventually include another Vehicle Star in my Clusters (and eventual Galaxy: I know I’m going to build one it’s only going to be a matter of time) and now I’m looking at the big boys.
Athena, Oro, Mars, and Huey probably a pair of each.
Any other suggestions I’m missing?
For reference my first Vehicle Star is Four Epona’s, Two Tyr’s, Two Svantovit’s, and Two SM1’s. They carry around my 25x Undine (Upgraded).
When do you want to run it and what do you want to do with it?
I was about to describe the Mars in LRM Carrier terms but I am not sure how fluent in tank you are. Are you after a fire support Star or a battle Star?
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When do you want to run it and what do you want to do with it?
I was about to describe the Mars in LRM Carrier terms but I am not sure how fluent in tank you are. Are you after a fire support Star or a battle Star?
Probably be an Assault/Fire Support Star. I’ve only run my Epona’s and BA taxi’s before, but this Star would be probably supporting Assault Mechs and ‘maybe’ Assault BA, or some sort of combined arms Trinary even.
As far as era.... my group really doesn’t play by era so no real restrictions.
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Okay. First rule of tanks. Tanks make bad MBTs if you have Mechs available.
So start with that. Your tanks will be providing fire support and flanking duties while your Mechs go up the centre.
Make a firm decision about Hueys. Go big or go home. Either take 4 minimum or take none. That is a function of how artillery works. You need numbers because of their spray and play nature.
Now I am not a big fan of short ranged tanks. Tanks get immobilised, tanks out of range get ignored. That includes your flankers. Something like an Ares is useful planking away on the flank.
Conveniently CGB's Rasalhague generation of tanks are all solid at long range. Get stationary in cover 14 hexes out before you get immobilised and bring down the rain. If you don't have your Mechs you may need a few sacrificial lambs like Ishtars to draw fire while your more capable Axels bring the pain. Don't be afraid to just use LRMs and fire indirectly. You don't want to be hit. And sounds like you will have Infantry to be spotters.
Tank games are a lot more about sieging up, positioning, and managing losses. A stomping wall of steel doesn't work. You will have to try a few MegaMek games and get used to the different pacing. But if you want to keep up with the Mechs I would suggest Axels over Athenas. Better armor and Athenas are fire magnets. Carnivors and Morrigus are good in this role too. Oros are useful as escorts but need to be shielded. Hachimans are very solid as MBTs and fire support. Kus are good too, but wheeled. Ishtars are high firepower hand grenades you roll into an enemy to break them up.
Save your Mars for city fights.
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Mars XL is great, but a Mars HAG better... also I second the usage of 4 Huey, even go as far as the AAA model! Don't forget the Demo C, better than an Oro in my book. Sure no pulse laser, but have you ever got a sneeze from one before? I've done something like that before... >:D
Suggest 4 Huey AAA, 4 Demo C and twin Ares as support. If you want, try a Binary unit. Even outfit it with some Fast Recon to make the Huey really shine! Say 3 Points worth, followed by something big and scary in BA for the close support kindness?
TT
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Mars XL is great, but a Mars HAG better... also I second the usage of 4 Huey, even go as far as the AAA model! Don't forget the Demo C, better than an Oro in my book. Sure no pulse laser, but have you ever got a sneeze from one before? I've done something like that before... >:D
Suggest 4 Huey AAA, 4 Demo C and twin Ares as support. If you want, try a Binary unit. Even outfit it with some Fast Recon to make the Huey really shine! Say 3 Points worth, followed by something big and scary in BA for the close support kindness?
TT
That seems like a terribly slow and short unit. IMO there is a good reason all the new clan vehicles have been faster or longer ranged. They need at least keep up with the back half of the battle line.
Ghost Bears have their own artillery stars, I would run 6 Huey, 2 SM2 artillery tanks (stolen from the useless nova cats), or Thor’s if you like, and two pike C. If you want to go arty go big. We are Ghost Bears. If you don’t have room for your own artillery star, make something a command nova and slap on a star of arty there.
Demolishers are great if you know you can use hidden units, or have a short map. Otherwise they’ll get eaten up in anything resembling line combat. I’d never choose an Ares with the Axel IIC around, more and more accurate firepower, more armor, and an ECM. Unless you needed to for BV and/or had to jam it into a light vehicle bay on a dropper.
My standard slow battle tracked combat unit is usually 4 Axel IIC (I usually use regular here), 2 Morrigu (you can also use Kokou XL here), 2 Oro, 2 Carnivore. The slowest unit is the Morrigu or the Kokou, but they can afford to get to one good spot early and snipe, although the Kokou will have more trouble than the Morrigu here. The rest can move up slowly as needed, or atleast reposition to use their mostly long range guns to wipe stuff out and clean up after mechs.
For a faster tracked star I use 4 Axel IIC (the XL), 2 Joust, 2 Mithras, 2 Enyo Sholef.
Use the jihad variant of the Mithras to be annoying, move around as needed to blast stuff, could be moved with most mechs as needed but has range to stay back also. Sholef can deal with most infantry all the AP Gauss and light MGs couldn’t.
I think I remember reading that clans only keep the same movement type within their vee stars, although I could totally be making that up. It makes sense to me that way they don’t have to leave half the star out when it comes to going through that forest.
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What they said but I will testify that hueys and carnivores are a good combo. You get enough hags for some decent anti air.
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Also it’s worth noting that from Dark Age forward we no longer have bad vehicle crews either. I know it’s specifically mentioned in one of the 3145 books, not sure when it starts to apply.
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Thanks everyone for all the advice: I’ll look into everything said and at least put a plan together for down the road.
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2/3 speed isn't slow.
Sure it takes two turns to go full speed, but at least I can keep up the constant +1 to be targeted, and +2 for Flanking doesn't mean nothing to an Artillery unit. After all it's still -2 to-hit against the ground...
Area saturation using massed Standard and Cluster Ammo, yeah Cluster! Still hurts against non-Infantry! ( TO, pg.354 ) Also FASCAM rounds thrown in with Smoke to obscure.
Now tell me why being slow moving and firing Eight Arrow a turn is bad again? The Demo C run cover like quarterbacks defending a play while I'd like to confirm the Ares Plasma, as the flanker unit. No minimums for 30 LRMs, a mean heat streak, really the damage is negligent, but overheating along with what this Star can produce? Yes please!
TT
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2/3 speed isn't slow.
Sure it takes two turns to go full speed, but at least I can keep up the constant +1 to be targeted, and +2 for Flanking doesn't mean nothing to an Artillery unit. After all it's still -2 to-hit against the ground...
Area saturation using massed Standard and Cluster Ammo, yeah Cluster! Still hurts against non-Infantry! ( TO, pg.354 ) Also FASCAM rounds thrown in with Smoke to obscure.
Now tell me why being slow moving and firing Eight Arrow a turn is bad again? The Demo C run cover like quarterbacks defending a play while I'd like to confirm the Ares Plasma, as the flanker unit. No minimums for 30 LRMs, a mean heat streak, really the damage is negligent, but overheating along with what this Star can produce? Yes please!
TT
I wasn’t referring to the Huey, as it’s stuck at 2/3 no matter the variant. It just doesn’t make sense logistically to combine an extra couple LBX20 with your already ridiculous cluster power, and range of the HAG20s. You can trade a short range threat for another 4 arrow tubes and 4 HAGs (per point), which can threaten from 8 and 1.5 map sheets away. And if you play them off board, IMO it just seems silly to split a star apart to have two super slow, short range, dangerous vehicles that only take one or two motive hits to stop and then be easy enough to avoid (because they are so slow).
The Ares plasma might be a good call, I forgot about those. Nice to give you some BA stoppers. I’d just use a point, maybe two of them (or the Enyo Sholef) to cover for the arty. I wouldn’t range them out if arty was on the board. Off board they can provide some actual utility, and use their better speeds to do whatever they need to, or at least get into a decent position before stopping moving completely.
Basically it was the random combo of poor vees with the arty that bothered me. Just go full “Tango Support Star” or “Ghost Bear Command Nova” and slap as much arty/AA as you can together. (Like I said earlier I like the 6 Huey, 2 SM2/Thor, and 2 Pikes which are nominally there for extra AA duty which seems supportive enough, although I’m sure you can wiggle in your Ares plasma)
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Thor C are, but...
Have you tried the Klopfer? ( It's german for Thumper. ) As in TAV-1... ( ICE )
It's cheaper than a Thor C in BV...
But, you can't sneeze at 2 ER Medium (clan ), even though 4 MG ( IS ) can still help.
TT
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Thor C are, but...
Have you tried the Klopfer? ( It's german for Thumper. ) As in TAV-1... ( ICE )
It's cheaper than a Thor C in BV...
But, you can't sneeze at 2 ER Medium (clan ), even though 4 MG ( IS ) can still help.
TT
I like keeping everything clan as much as possible, although I’d imagine during the Jihad they would be using whatever they could, and the old FFR would have enough thumpers around the Dominion wouldn’t complain about taking them. But I much prefer the Nova Cat SM2 to keep everything tracked (but the range of the thumper could be a factor).
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So with all the new RecGuides we have confirmation that the Bears are building all 4 of their favoured Mechs: Fire Moths, Vipers, Mad Dogs and Executioners...
We have some nice heavy Omnis to go with the Mad Dog like the Mad Dog 2 and 3, and the Karhu...
What would you like to see in the RecGuides to supplement our current Omni lineup?
A new Assault to replace the Kingfisher and Warhawk? Would you rather just see us producing one or both of those?
Maybe a new medium or light? (Although with the Ravens still pumping out Stormcrows, we could probably just get a bunch of those)
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So with all the new RecGuides we have confirmation that the Bears are building all 4 of their favoured Mechs: Fire Moths, Vipers, Mad Dogs and Executioners...
We have some nice heavy Omnis to go with the Mad Dog like the Mad Dog 2 and 3, and the Karhu...
What would you like to see in the RecGuides to supplement our current Omni lineup?
A new Assault to replace the Kingfisher and Warhawk? Would you rather just see us producing one or both of those?
Maybe a new medium or light? (Although with the Ravens still pumping out Stormcrows, we could probably just get a bunch of those)
I’d like to see a trooper medium so we aren’t stuck with importing Storm Crows from the Ravens. And allows us to have something to compliment the Ursus. (Although now they I think about it the Hammerhead more or less gives us that, albeit imported).
I want us to keep the Kingfisher in production, I wouldn’t mind getting rid of the Warhawk, it doesn’t particularly impress me.
We don’t need too much I think. Between all our different Ursus variants, imported storm crows and the hammerheads we have trooper mediums covered.
Viper and the Shadow Cat III cover the scouting/harassing mediums. And the reintroduced fire moth can add there as well, and the Beowulf IIC, Locust IIC and few other standards round out a solid if overly quick light and medium corps.
We have most types of heavies covered, although all domestic production lean towards heavy cav designs (Karhu, Arcas, Kuma, Vulture III) and the majority of imports are this way too (all but the Nova Cat, and who knows how long that will last on the MUL depending on who takes over production, and the Loki Mk II).
Assaults are similar, almost all 4/6 aside from a variant of the Marauder IIC and whatever Highlander IICs we’ve converted over to the 3. And all our Omnis are light on pod space.
I would really like to see an assault that has some real pod space and a more standard 5/8 trooper medium
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Are we still building Mad Dogs?
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Are we still building Mad Dogs?
We have the III, and I’d imagine that we’ll get the regular back in production as well. Although with the III being an out and out better mech that fills the exact same role I’d rather it go to someone else.
Sarna lists the OG being built on Alshain by Bergan, and the III comes from Alshain Weapons on its namesake. Sarna lists the info coming from Objectives:The Clans and TRO:3145 respectively.
So hopefully they repurpose the older Bergan line.
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What would you like to see in the RecGuides to supplement our current Omni lineup?
War Crows.
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even if we no longer build the original, the Mad Dog II is essentially an identical Mech according to Herb
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The III is better than the I or II in every way. Just saying...
We need a trooper light. We need a trooper medium. We need a big heavy to fill the gap between the Karhu and Executioner.
I have trouble seeing a need for a second assault. While it would be nice I would argue an Executioner II is needed first. Let's just say I can get a 4/6(8) Mech with 290 armor and 60 points at 20 hexes. If I can convince the bosses to back that, why do you need a Kingfisher?
We don't need more conventional Mechs. We have them coming out of our ears.
Our core problem is that 3 of our 5 OmniMechs date back to the highly problematic TRO3050 and are only being kept viable through heavily min-maxed variants every NTNU*.
*Note the Executioner finally has a consistent 50 points at 20 hexes variant bringing it in line with Clan assault standards.
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The III is better than the I or II in every way. Just saying...
We need a trooper light. We need a trooper medium. We need a big heavy to fill the gap between the Karhu and Executioner.
I have trouble seeing a need for a second assault. While it would be nice I would argue an Executioner II is needed first. Let's just say I can get a 4/6(8) Mech with 290 armor and 60 points at 20 hexes. If I can convince the bosses to back that, why do you need a Kingfisher?
We don't need more conventional Mechs. We have them coming out of our ears.
Our core problem is that 3 of our 5 OmniMechs date back to the highly problematic TRO3050 and are only being kept viable through heavily min-maxed variants every NTNU.
A series of troopers and pocket assault would be nice. And a modern take on the Executioner would be nice. Even if it’s just pulling the fixed JJ and redistributing the armor. I’d like to keep the kingfisher just for standard engine and to keep the X around.
As long as we completely give up on our massive section of hammered dog poo mixed tech designs I won’t complain too much.
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We need to bring back the imp! Tseng variant!! Or give us the exe II.
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*Note the Executioner finally has a consistent 50 points at 20 hexes variant bringing it in line with Clan assault standards.
no matter how optimized a loadout you stick on the Exe, other established Assault Omnis can carry the same thing plus more...that's kind of why I think we need another Assault Omni (I personally would settle for us building the Warhawk)
...as much as I like the Kingfisher, it suffers the same issue as the Exe and has 2.5 tons less pod space, and while it's a zombie 'Mech, I feel that's not enough for going up against other Clan Assaults...
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The III is better than the I or II in every way. Just saying...
We need a trooper light. We need a trooper medium. We need a big heavy to fill the gap between the Karhu and Executioner.
I humbly submit that literally no one needs a Trooper Light, and using resources to accomplish that is wasteful when you could just be building anything else.
*Note the Executioner finally has a consistent 50 points at 20 hexes variant bringing it in line with Clan assault standards.
This feels extremely weird to judge Clan Assault standards by, considering the following Clan Assaults have zero configs or variants that can accomplish that feat:
Kingfisher
Blood Asp (the G config is technically capable of the feat if you roll a 12 on the cluster table; that doesn't seem likely)
Savage Coyote (the C config is technically capable of the feat if you roll multiple 9+ on the cluster table; likewise not likely)
Gargoyle
Onager (the Onager 2 can do 50 points of damage on paper, but the -2 to clusters at long range on the HAG makes it impossible to actually accomplish at 20 hexes)
Night Wolf
Highlander IIC
Bruin
Naga
Shrike (the 3 is technically capable of the feat but only by going up to +19 heat before considering movement)
Out of what I can tell is a total of 32 Assault weight 'Mech designs (I didn't include the Marauder II C, Annihilator C, or any other predominantly IS tech units even though the Battlemaster would have qualified on the above list, too). Or, over a quarter of all groups of chassis incapable of the feat; if standard battlemech variants were tabulated separately well over half of all Clan Assaults would fail this standard.
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I humbly submit that literally no one needs a Trooper Light, and using resources to accomplish that is wasteful when you could just be building anything else.
This feels extremely weird to judge Clan Assault standards by, considering the following Clan Assaults have zero configs or variants that can accomplish that feat:
Kingfisher
Blood Asp (the G config is technically capable of the feat if you roll a 12 on the cluster table; that doesn't seem likely)
Savage Coyote (the C config is technically capable of the feat if you roll multiple 9+ on the cluster table; likewise not likely)
Gargoyle
Onager (the Onager 2 can do 50 points of damage on paper, but the -2 to clusters at long range on the HAG makes it impossible to actually accomplish at 20 hexes)
Night Wolf
Highlander IIC
Bruin
Naga
Shrike (the 3 is technically capable of the feat but only by going up to +19 heat before considering movement)
Out of what I can tell is a total of 32 Assault weight 'Mech designs (I didn't include the Marauder II C, Annihilator C, or any other predominantly IS tech units even though the Battlemaster would have qualified on the above list, too). Or, over a quarter of all groups of chassis incapable of the feat; if standard battlemech variants were tabulated separately well over half of all Clan Assaults would fail this standard.
I agree about the trooper light, but a domestic one thats not all engine would be nice. We have our Fire Moth and our ErLL on steroid legs in the Locust IIC8. A less bad for bad sake Bear Cub would be cool.
While a well piloted Kingfisher and Executioner are scary, they aren’t infinite guns scary like the tomahawk or the like are.
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I humbly submit that literally no one needs a Trooper Light, and using resources to accomplish that is wasteful when you could just be building anything else.
This feels extremely weird to judge Clan Assault standards by, considering the following Clan Assaults have zero configs or variants that can accomplish that feat:
Kingfisher
Blood Asp (the G config is technically capable of the feat if you roll a 12 on the cluster table; that doesn't seem likely)
Savage Coyote (the C config is technically capable of the feat if you roll multiple 9+ on the cluster table; likewise not likely)
Gargoyle
Onager (the Onager 2 can do 50 points of damage on paper, but the -2 to clusters at long range on the HAG makes it impossible to actually accomplish at 20 hexes)
Night Wolf
Highlander IIC
Bruin
Naga
Shrike (the 3 is technically capable of the feat but only by going up to +19 heat before considering movement)
Out of what I can tell is a total of 32 Assault weight 'Mech designs (I didn't include the Marauder II C, Annihilator C, or any other predominantly IS tech units even though the Battlemaster would have qualified on the above list, too). Or, over a quarter of all groups of chassis incapable of the feat; if standard battlemech variants were tabulated separately well over half of all Clan Assaults would fail this standard.
I agree it is hard to justify a light trooper in the modern age. Even a medium under 50 tons. I only include it because CGB formations are based on groups (of 3) of troopers and cavalry (eg 2 Mad Dogs and a Summoner. Grizzly and 2 Arcas). Up until the 3070s that was Firemoth and Adder for CGB, and the Adder has never really be replaced.
My 50 points figure came about when I discovered the Dire Wolf Widowmaker. Basically a 95 or 100 ton 3/5 Clan mech should be able to put out 50 damage at 20 hexes. Otherwise you are vulnerable to being cut out of battle because of your speed and short ranged weapons. The really good ones can crack 60 points.
Obviously lighter, faster, and specialised assaults have trouble with this.
Interestingly modern tricks are letting smaller Mechs catch up while the big boys are hitting crit space limits. Eg using SLRMs (everything hits and you can allow more overheating because its not always going to fire) I can get 50 out of a Karhu.
On another topic. What light and medium 2nd line Mechs are we making?
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Don't you guys still build the Arcas and it's sequels?
I'd prefer the Arcas 2 than a Hammerhand approach...
TT
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On another topic. What light and medium 2nd line Mechs are we making?
Locust IIC 5 and 8.
Bear Cub
Ursus/Ursus II
Beowulf IIC
Mongrel (mix tech garbage one)
Gravedigger (mix tech alright one but still makes me mad)
Shadow Hawk 12C :flame:
Some other stuff might be coming from New Oslo but I’m not sure. Mostly refits tho
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Excellent. Thank you.
Nothing wrong with the SHD-12C.
Try the MGL-T2 if you don't want mixtech.
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Excellent. Thank you.
Nothing wrong with the SHD-12C.
Try the MGL-T2 if you don't want mixtech.
What really bothers me about it is the idea that they’d build a new line that manufactures Heavy PPCs when they could have retooled to Clan ER PPCs from IS.
Almost all the designs that started production in the Dark Age upset me, but the Mongrel, Grave Digger and that Shadow Hawk really get me going. Makes me wish the Dominion kept more of a command economy than they did.
The Odin factory that makes most of the second line mechs was messed up in the second dominion combine war and only had its Shadow Hawk line running, so not sure what happened to the Mongrel, Beowulf IIC, and the Karhu. It looks like the Dominion Mongrel line got shifted to the Grave Digger after it was destroyed.
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Here's my hot take: Heavy PPCs are acceptable substitues for Clan ER PPCs because they drive the BV of a 'Mech down by at least 200 points. Each. A Shadow Hawk 12C with a C ER PPC is 1850, minimum, and much less attractive.
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CS indicates ComStar.
Lord’s Light 3 is a Draconis HPPC manufactured by Alshain Weapons.
The Diverse Optics Extended Range Medium is Combine from Irian.
The Wall Type 8 armor is ComStar.
I can't place the Helga but the rest is typical Shadow Hawk.
So the 12CS looks like standard Rasalhague built pre 3069 ComStar Mech. I think that there was a PHawk there too.
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CS indicates ComStar.
Lord’s Light 3 is a Draconis HPPC manufactured by Alshain Weapons.
The Diverse Optics Extended Range Medium is Combine from Irian.
The Wall Type 8 armor is ComStar.
I can't place the Helga but the rest is typical Shadow Hawk.
So the 12CS looks like standard Rasalhague built pre 3069 ComStar Mech. I think that there was a PHawk there too.
MUL has it introduced in 3079 along side the Karhu and it’s fluff says it was built specifically for spheroid bums.
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Both can work without being contradictory. I have seen how the sausages get made pretty close up. I have seen things take a decade from pen to print. The 12CS could have been rejigged multiple times before finding a TRO.
Things like the Gravedigger and Mongrel come from Mechwarrior Dark Age when the franchise was taking a more basic and low tech approach. We are lucky we didn't end up with clawed agromechs.
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So after finally getting the new Rec Guide: agree we need a big brutal 3/5 beat stick with tons of pod space. Don’t get me wrong: I enjoy the new Executioner variants (some more than others), but nearly all our homegrown assaults are 4/6 or faster (often with JJ too!). We need a Homegrown Turkina, Tomahawk, or Dire Wolf.
I also think that a trooper light and medium would benefit the Touman too. We can’t throw Fire Moths at all our light problems (as much as we want too). And while I like some of our mediums and smaller heavies... I hate the Kuma. Something lighter to replace it or even an Omni that rips out the engine and JJ (for pod mounted JJ) and some more weapons.
IDK I mean we have a bunch of standard mechs that could use some new variants and refits as well IMO: Ryoken II, Ursus II, Beowulf II.... to name a few. But that’s my opinion at least.
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To keep in theme with what the Bears usually do, I would say it doesn't even have to be 3/5...4/6 works for me, just lay off the excess weight like MASC, JJs or an SFE and don't skimp on the armour
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To keep in theme with what the Bears usually do, I would say it doesn't even have to be 3/5...4/6 works for me, just lay off the excess weight like MASC, JJs or an SFE and don't skimp on the armour
We have so many 4/6 already. Every clan assault on our MUL DA list is 4/6 but 5. A MAD IIC variant, SuperNova, the OG Stone Rhino, Highlander IIC 3, and the Viking IIC. Although I imagine we’ll have access to a Dire Wolf again to give us an Omni at 3/5 when the rec guide for it comes in.
There really isn’t room for another take on a 4/6 assault that hasn’t been done, outside of ferro-lam. We have 4/6 xl, 4/6 std, 4/6 and a stupid amount of fixed heat sinks (std and xl), 4/6 and JJ, 4/6 JJ and masc, 4/6 JJ masc and supercharger, 4/6 and close range, 4/6 and long range, 4/6 and mid range, 4/6 and a rifleman clone, 4/6 but with hardened, 4/6 and imported, and finally (for this banal rant I have gone on) 4/6 and home grown.
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Personally I am intrigued by the XL/reinforced structure option at the moment.
Reinforced and Hardened were the Dominion technology gains and Hardened doesn't work with Omnis.
Using the Kingfisher as a basis for comparison with the same 17 HS podspace goes from 24 tons to 27.
Yes, you gain the XL engine but structure goes from 138 to 276. Or the equivalent of 9 tons of standard plate armor. You need to do 40 points of internal damage to take out a side torso, so the engine isn't that vulnerable.
So yeah, a 3 ton gain on what is arguably a tougher chassis. Every little bit counts and 3/5 is slow in Bear land. Spend the 3 tons of Ferro Lamellor for giggles given you aren't paying for endo crits any more.
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Personally I am intrigued by the XL/reinforced structure option at the moment.
Reinforced and Hardened were the Dominion technology gains and Hardened doesn't work with Omnis.
Using the Kingfisher as a basis for comparison with the same 17 HS podspace goes from 24 tons to 27.
Yes, you gain the XL engine but structure goes from 138 to 276. Or the equivalent of 9 tons of standard plate armor. You need to do 40 points of internal damage to take out a side torso, so the engine isn't that vulnerable.
So yeah, a 3 ton gain on what is arguably a tougher chassis. Every little bit counts and 3/5 is slow in Bear land. Spend the 3 tons of Ferro Lamellor for giggles given you aren't paying for endo crits any more.
Ooh one I didn’t think of, and reinforced could end up a noticeable net gain in survivability. However I don’t think we can see it in anything soon cause reinforced structure isn’t in the scope of the rec guides (right?).
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It is in BattleTech BattleMech Manual ::)
I think it is important to remember that up until less than a month ago confirmed omni production for the Dominion was top heavy. Executioner, Karhu, and Mad Dog III/II(are both in production???). Now we know the Viper and Firemoth are back. But that is a double edged sword because the Executioner, Viper, and Firemoth were some of the more questionable TRO3050 Omnis, a TRO known for being questionable. For better or worse Omnis are the back bone of our frontline 'Mechs. We may have some awesome experiments in BattleMechs, which is great if you are playing Tundra Galaxy, not so much Alpha.
It is all well and good to say that we can import, but up until very recently the Sea Foxes didn't do that many Omnis either. The Horses didn't, and we aren't buying Wolf or Falcon tech. The Alliance is also idiosyncratic. There are a couple of items of interest but I am not buying a 3/5 85 tonner.
Actually there aren't that many good light and medium Omnis around. You need a Storm Crow/Nova, which I know where we can get. Then you need a fast light. We have the Viper, rules out the Ice Ferret, Mongrel is sort of in between, and the less said about the Shadow Cat the better. What would be nice would be a ultra fast light with some protection. God I wanted something like the Wulfen for us, but there was too much unpublished Dominion MW:DA stuff at the time.
Fix up that hole then get some assaults happening. Doesn't help that we have so many assault BattleMech producers and everyone thinks we Kodiak everything.
I am curious who is using 3/5 Mechs lately. It is years since I played but the local tabletop discouraged assaults. The last serious attempt at a big 3/5 camping assault I can think of is the Tomahawk and that was a bit of fanservice to an old magazine reference. I had always figured after the 3/5 Gauss burnout in TRO3055/58 the designers had been avoiding it since TRO3060.
It is sort of central to the need for a 3/5 assault. If your Executioner can eat a couple of big heavies while your Mad Dogs suppress the Dire Wolf/Tomahawk, is that a problem? It is why I look at say 80 tons for a oversized heavy 'Mech. But the Executioner does everything the 80 tonner will (80/85 tons is more efficient but you don't get that big structure/armor) and you really want 5/8 movement which is another bloody Timber Wolf. So we retain that gaping enigma of a hole between 65 and 95 tons.
PS, and I proved myself wrong about big assaults hitting the firepower wall the other day. I managed to drag 80 heatsinked, cluster averaged, points at 20 hexes out of a Dire Wolf. I am pretty chuffed about that because that beats a Kraken 3's not quite sinked 72.
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Well I feel we have a need for a more classic Assault Omni mostly because of the Bears original Touman weight makeup, with our Fire Moths being BA taxi, Vipers are our "Lights" , the Mad Dog is our "Medium" , and the Executioner are "Heavy" ...for Assaults we used to run Warhawks and Kingfishers, and I guess they were adequate for the role, but (and unless the RecGuides change this) we no longer have access to either of those two 'Mechs
Now I also get we don't really run that weight setup anymore, but that doesn't mean the Exe isn't basically a big Heavy, especially as compared to some of the more robust Clan Assault 'Mechs
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Good thing for me that I don't follow RecGuides so I can still keep using what I have even if GB doesn't use those anymore in lore. Otherwise I wouldn't have much to use as my collection is very small with only 1 binary worth of clan mechs in my entire collection.
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That... isn't anything to do with the Recognition Guides. Nothing about them prevents you from using anything.
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Good thing for me that I don't follow RecGuides so I can still keep using what I have even if GB doesn't use those anymore in lore. Otherwise I wouldn't have much to use as my collection is very small with only 1 binary worth of clan mechs in my entire collection.
Well it's the Wars of Reaving that cut those off, what with the only manufacturing centres being in the Homeworlds...again, unless the new Recognition Guides (which are just the latest TROs) change that
But that doesn't mean you can't use them, just that no one manufactures them in the IS
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Good thing for me that I don't follow RecGuides so I can still keep using what I have even if GB doesn't use those anymore in lore. Otherwise I wouldn't have much to use as my collection is very small with only 1 binary worth of clan mechs in my entire collection.
You have hundred+ year old mechs then. Congratulations you back to where battletech began, mechs held together by twine, ingenuity, and prayer.
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You have hundred+ year old mechs then. Congratulations you back to where battletech began, mechs held together by twine, ingenuity, and prayer.
Not really. My collection is combination of old metal Ral Partha miniatures that I had bought back when was in middle school and brand new plastic ones from boxed sets.
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Not really. My collection is combination of old metal Ral Partha miniatures that I had bought back when was in middle school and brand new plastic ones from boxed sets.
I am talking about the mechs that were built in lore. If you have anything the GB didn’t build it is either rebuilt salvage or older than Victor Steiner either way it is held together by twine, ingenuity, and prayer.
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Good thing for me that I don't follow RecGuides so I can still keep using what I have even if GB doesn't use those anymore in lore. Otherwise I wouldn't have much to use as my collection is very small with only 1 binary worth of clan mechs in my entire collection.
You have this backwards by the way. Nobody has manufatured the Warhawk in ages. The Ghost Bear never made it, and the only ones they had they took from the Jaguars. Which obviously hasn't happened in ages by the 3150s either. The Recognition Guides are bringing old OmniMechs back into production, not removing them. (We haven't' learned yet who is making Warhawks yet, as they haven't appeared in the Recognition Guides yet).
You're welcome to play with what you want, but the Recognition Guides are in no way asking you to use less of the old omni's, it's specifically making them more available.
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Didn't the Warhawk get built by the Scorpions after the Jaguars?
Cause I remember something about the Abysmal continent and the Phan City...
Who owns these today?
That might answer the question.
TT
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TRO3050U
Following the Jaguars’ annihilation, the Fire Mandrills seized control of the Phan Industrialplex on Huntress. Inner Sphere forces had made a cursory effort to raze the complex, so enough survived to rebuild one Masakari production line. The Mandrills have also traded the design to the Diamond Sharks, and the Goliath Scorpions appear to have a source of new Masakaris, possibly from their Abysmal Manufacturing Complex.
Is the Deimos armored enough to be up to the job?
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TRO3050U
Is the Deimos armored enough to be up to the job?
the Deimos has about 88% armour coverage and moves slower than a Warhawk...being slower, I'd want more armour, but it's not a bad amount either I guess
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the Deimos has about 88% armour coverage and moves slower than a Warhawk...being slower, I'd want more armour, but it's not a bad amount either I guess
It’s got the MASC, which I really dislike on this mech, it’s 4 tons and 4 crits it really needs elsewhere, in what is in almost every variant, a sniper.
I like the mech a lot, just wish it didn’t use masc or fix the AMS ammo in the ct
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Not a big fan of MASC on a 3/5 either. Though an extra ton buys a Supercharger which allows safe-ish 4/6 for a few turns. I am not sure if 5 tons would buy a bigger engine.
I am mainly asking because I am trying to get my head around a touman without the Kingfisher or Warhawk. Hopefully we will find out later in the year. But Tomahawks are pretty much unobtainable as are Blood Asps. Find out about the Dire Wolf too I guess.
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MASC on 3/5 is for letting it get a +2 TMM with a turn, and based on how defensive BV for TMM works I'm pretty sure the BV cost for that capability is trivial.
It also means being able to mount a Supercharger to get to 8 MP, which is absolutely worth it for being able to spike to +3 TMM.
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Since we're talking about the Deimos, does the fluff text mention why it has a fixed AMS and 2 fixed lasers? Sarna doesn't elaborate other than to say they are there
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This may sound shocking...
I've used a Dire Wolf in an unconventional way...
Cargo carrier...
Had a campaign with limited transportation... used the slow ones as cargo carriers.
Worked, carried more cargo and with so much armor too.
TT
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Is there anything in the new Battle of Tukayyid book that is especially relevant to the Bears that we don't really know yet? Trying to determine if I should get it
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Since we're talking about the Deimos, does the fluff text mention why it has a fixed AMS and 2 fixed lasers? Sarna doesn't elaborate other than to say they are there
Ancient memories... but I seem to recall an effort not to make another generic 3/5 XL empty box.
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It's interesting, but due to the fixed ERMLs and the internals layout, you actually can't do a Warhawk Prime on the Deimos unless you want to put the TC in an arm and rearrange the PPCs out of that arm
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Are we still building Mad Dogs?
so no, we are not, according to the new RecGuide
but the Mk II is essentially identical (as mentioned), and of course the III is better
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so no, we are not, according to the new RecGuide
but the Mk II is essentially identical (as mentioned), and of course the III is better
I really hope we convert that heavy Omni line into something else tho. We don’t need that level of redundancy.
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P108. Masters and Minions
Bergan Industries
Corporate HQ: Alshain, Ares (Capellan Confederation)
Key Facilities: Alshain, Thule, Rasalhague, New Oslo,
Ares (Capellan Confederation)
The largest BattleMech supplier within Rasalhague space,
Bergan Industries—often identified by subsidiary names such as
“Alshain BattleWorx”, “Alshain Weapons” (the Alshain and New
Oslo facilities aquired from GKT) or simply “Alshain”
I somehow doubt that there is a Mad Dog II line. Alshain Weapons (Mad Dog III) is Bergan Industries (Mad Dog II).
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P108. Masters and MinionsI somehow doubt that there is a Mad Dog II line. Alshain Weapons (Mad Dog III) is Bergan Industries (Mad Dog II).
Good catch. I suppose anything the horses put on the old vulture (I/II) can be put on the III with some room to spare
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Masters and Minions is an awesome resource. Sarna misses a lot of its subtleties in the factory write-ups. It was the basis of the later Objectives series.
If nothing else the recent discussion has reminded me later Mechs like the Deimos and Mad Dog III have missed out on the NTNU treatment because they are overshadowed by more popular historic Mechs. Once the kickstarter clears the system I will do what I can to get it looked at across all Clans newer OmniMechs.
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The Vulture Mk III debuted in TRO 3145 The Clans so I think it's a bit off-base to say it missed the NTNU treatment. It is the new tech already. It even has a config with the kind of tech going into RecGuide configs, too, in the D stuffed full of RACs.
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The Vulture Mk III debuted in TRO 3145 The Clans so I think it's a bit off-base to say it missed the NTNU treatment. It is the new tech already. It even has a config with the kind of tech going into RecGuide configs, too, in the D stuffed full of RACs.
One of our 4 has one unique piece of newer tech, everything else is clan intro stuff (aside from micro pulse). Not even stuff like ATMs, HAGs or heavy lasers, or even Artemis. The Vulture std now has 13 variants, with 7 of them using stuff from beyond introductory clan stuff.
I understand why TPTB are updating these older mechs, but it’s kind of frustrating to see all the new stuff mostly sitting on the sideline, especially the direct replacement mechs (Summoner, Loki/Hel, Mad Dog III)
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Number of configs does not and has never had anything to do with how common a 'Mech is or how often it sees combat. ???
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Number of configs does not and has never had anything to do with how common a 'Mech is or how often it sees combat. ???
I don't think anyone has implied that...just that the old stuff that are supposedly phased out for the newer stuff are still getting a ton of new updates while some of the new stuff don't even have configs with anything more than standard tech when the Clans were introduced
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Then I'm not sure what else "sideline" refers to unless it's literally how recently the unit has appeared in a print book, which I think is missing the mark for a number of reasons.
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Then I'm not sure what else "sideline" refers to unless it's literally how recently the unit has appeared in a print book
Pretty sure this is what was meant
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The Vulture Mk III debuted in TRO 3145 The Clans so I think it's a bit off-base to say it missed the NTNU treatment. It is the new tech already. It even has a config with the kind of tech going into RecGuide configs, too, in the D stuffed full of RACs.
TRO3045: The Clans is 7 years old now.
While I admit the new variant trend didn't occur until the Es and Hs after ATM'S and Heavy Lasers the 3050-58 Omnis (and favoured BattleMechs) have been consistently receiving variants every few years or so.
Newer Mechs haven't been getting similar love. Part of that familiarity. See TRO bloat etc. I couldn't even name the Omnis Clan Jade Falcon are building at the moment. Part is simple newness, but as I said at the start. TRO3045 is a shocking 7-8 years old.
I will admit that I am sensitive to this. I am coming from an aerospace bias where the Clans are largely stuck with Aerotech 1 optimised Omnifighters three rules was later.
In the case of the Dominion we have 5 main OmniMechs. The Executioner has been dragged into the modern era by using every trick in the book as has the Firemoth. There is not much you can do with a Viper. The Karhu (TRO3085 2010) got a NTNU in TRO3145 to keep it ticking over. And remember it got lumbered with MW:DA variants that aren't always effective in BattleTech. That leaves the Mad Dog III.
So I figure the 3145 Mechs are coming due for some NTNU love. Especially those with MW:DA compromised variants.
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TRO3145 is 7 years old, but the thing that makes for new tech and new upgrades is not "age of the TRO", it's "another major TRO set later" and to date the only thing that fits that description is the print Recognition Guide that does not yet exist and will not yet exist for some time.
Part of my combination of incredulity and disappointment is coming from the very simple perspective of "there is already too much shit to pick from here". Adding more configs and more configs and more configs doesn't fix that at all, regardless of which chassis they're added to. After a point it's not "love", it's overcrowding.
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For me it is not so much about tech as technique. A Mech released in a TRO is a designers best guess as to what might work with a given specification. There is no way they can match 5 years of players using and discussing a Mech, finding out how and what works in endlessly creative ways. We all know there are Omni variants no one would ever touch and are effectively retired.
The NTNUs are a chance to respond to feedback, freshen up a Mech. Eg, smoothing out the infamous FWL light gauss misuse.
I do agree on the bloat. Retirements are probably the best solution but it is not a very BattleTech solution, what with the anyone can use anything philosophy. Unfortunately new Mechs and variants are just a sign of life in this game.
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TRO3145 is 7 years old, but the thing that makes for new tech and new upgrades is not "age of the TRO", it's "another major TRO set later" and to date the only thing that fits that description is the print Recognition Guide that does not yet exist and will not yet exist for some time.
Part of my combination of incredulity and disappointment is coming from the very simple perspective of "there is already too much shit to pick from here". Adding more configs and more configs and more configs doesn't fix that at all, regardless of which chassis they're added to. After a point it's not "love", it's overcrowding.
I would agree also about the bloat, but what are you suggesting? That if someone wants to see new configs/variants for Mech A, but those don't appear, that they should be satisfied that Mech B got new configs/variants?
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I would agree also about the bloat, but what are you suggesting? That if someone wants to see new configs/variants for Mech A, but those don't appear, that they should be satisfied that Mech B got new configs/variants?
No, I'm suggesting that comparing Mech A and Mech B by how recently they each got new configs is something very silly to be dissatisfied with. TROs and configs aren't a zero-sum game, there's no reason to treat more of one as lack of a different one.
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No, I'm suggesting that comparing Mech A and Mech B by how recently they each got new configs is something very silly to be dissatisfied with. TROs and configs aren't a zero-sum game, there's no reason to treat more of one as lack of a different one.
I would argue that it's more than just comparing how recently they got configs, but also how many they had beforehand as well as lore circumstances...
An example would be the Mad Dog now having 13 configs, and the Mad Dog III only having 4, despite the Mad Dog III supposedly being a replacement for the older Mech
The same can thus be said for the other "replacement" Mechs introduced
Perhaps they should never have been fluffed that way to begin with and we could not have this issue (maybe the PTB should never have tried to reconcile the MWDA load outs and all Mad Dogs/Mad Dog IIs/Mad Dog IIIs could have been the same machine, etc...)
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The Mad Dog has 13 configs principally because it has existed for over 30 years of real time; the Vulture Mk III has existed for a quarter of that. Several of those Mad Dog configurations are less than two days old. One of them is less than a month old.
Actually, doing the research to type that paragraph has helped figure out why that whole perspective bothers me. Here's how the Mad Dog's configs happened.
Prime, A, B, C were in TRO 3050 in 1990. You may note that this is one fewer config than the Vulture Mk III published with.
D config I'm not entirely sure when it was published individually, but ATMs were published in 1999 with Field Manual: Warden Clans. It took the Mad Dog nine years to get its first config outside of 3050.
E and F both have HAGs. HAGs were introduced with Total Warfare and the revised TRO 3060 with them included was published in 2009, another 10 years later.
H config has Heavy Lasers. The config was introduced in either the revised TRO 3060 or RS 3050 Upgrades Unabridged, I can't actually tell which one but being generous and saying it's the revised 3060 that's also 2009. Heavy Lasers have been around since the BattleTech Master Rules in 1998, so that's the absolute earliest it could have been made.
U config is from RS3085 ONN in 2010. G config is from RS3145 NTNU in 2013. S config is from Battle of Tukayyid last month. T, DD, I, V are from Recognition Guide Volume 10 literally yesterday. Let's plot that timeline.
Four initial configs (1990)
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D config (1999), possibly H config because I can't tell what book that was first introduced.
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E, F, (probably) H configs. (2009)
U config (2010)
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G config (2013)
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S, T, DD, I, V configs (2020)
Does that explain a little bit better why I'm a little bit disappointed about the complaining? We are experiencing an age of BattleTech product output that has literally never happened before in volume and frequency. Have some perspective.
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S, T, DD, I, V configs (2020)
Haha... read that with a straight face!
But S should be an older mod, would have been the same time as the Timber Wolf, Kit Fox... when fighting against the IS in an urban environ demanded it.
As S means Jump Jets installed. Yes? or am I reading too much?
Also I think the Mk. II Mad Dog is the same mech, but uses a different " cosmetic " face to defer ' Clan built ' vs. ' IS Clan built ', correct me if I'm wrong please.
TT
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The S config came out with Battle of Tukayyid last month. My post (and the discussion here regarding the Vulture Mk III's seeming lack of configs) had absolutely nothing to do with in-character dates.
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Oh, RL chronicle time line, not Battletech's...
I see now... my bad.
Carry on good sir!
TT
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So again, and you've said this isn't what you're trying to say, but what I'm getting is (essentially) Mech A didn't get a variant, but we should be satisfied Mech B did get something
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're disappointed in the complaints because so much CBT content is coming at an unprecedented rate and volume
Well I don't think you should misunderstand either, I'm sure we all are happy with more content, more is always good, but many fans also have certain areas of the universe they are more invested in, and I see no reason they shouldn't be disappointed when that aspect doesn't get an update
Again, to equate what I am getting from what you are saying: even though it's not stuff we are looking for (Mech A didn't get a variant), we should be satisfied with how CBT content is coming out at an unprecedented rate (but be satisfied Mech B got a variant)...
I mean, you can apply what I'm saying to any part of the lore being released...for the people who want nothing to do with the Clans, they are going to want some more Inner Sphere stuff and be disappointed if all that comes out for a bit is Clan info, etc...
I think perhaps what you should take away from the "complaints" really is that it's just grumbling here on a faction-specific thread...no one here is calling on TPTB to change what they're doing in a thread directed at them
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To be fair there are people in this thread who have designed official Mechs. If the chance comes up I would rather have some idea what the users think is necessary rather whatever craziness is in my head. Eg there seems to be an interest in low BV at the moment. Understandable given the rash of very high BV units in the last few years which you can't afford to put on a board.
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Back somewhat on track...
Speaking of 3/5 slowpokes, has anyone used either of the Minsk’s? The new variant has been put back into production on Alshain. GC kinda got pushed to the side with all the ilClan stuff coming out around it.
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I really do want to jump into that, but we are at 50 pages. Do we need a new thread?
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Don't we just go until the thread is full? Or did you want to stop early so any discussion isn't lost between the two threads?
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New thread new minsk!